What is the difference in 40 times and "football speed"?

[MSUDawg25]

Anything to get away from recruiting and C35 threads. Idea semi-stolen from tigerdroppings. Why do track guys and guys with great 40 times not necessarily translate to outrunning people on the field? Mccluster comes to mind first. He was uncatchable on the field when he got going, but ran like a 4.6 at the combine. Feel free to list more examples.

ETA: Acceleration vs top speed comes to mind for me, but why have we not found a more accurate drill to gauge "football speed"?

 

[jeremyrbrown]

differences between the two:

1. no pads vs pads
2. no one chasing you vs someone chasing you
3. 40 yards vs possible longer yardage (running fast for 80 yards is harder than running fast for 40 yards)

those are just a few things that come to mind.

 

[Incognegro]

are the type of angles you take. This translates for offense and defense as well.

 

[lowcountrydawg.sixpack]

First 30 yards 4.3. Last 30 yards 4.7

 

[B Rock]

rarely will a player get to run a straight line in a football game. A football player needs to be able to react to defenders. Things like lateral acceleration, the ability to run forwards, backwards and sideways and always be ready to change direction and explode. The ability to bend your knees, run low and use your hips are important. When running the 40, most people run in a straight up position, which really on utilizes the quad. It just takes a deeper range of motion to have football speed. That's usually why track guys don't work out. Football players concentrate more on strength training for better agility.

 

[RebelBruiser]

He was always one of the fastest players on the field, but he didn't quite figure out how to use it until his junior year.

As someone else said, agility is a big part of it. That's why I've always thought the 40 was a bad measure to use for football. It's essentially a track time, which doesn't translate at all to football. With laser timing, I think that they'd be better off measuring the last 20 yards of a 40 yard dash or something like that just to measure top end speed. Then use things like the shuttle drill to compare agility.

I think a lot of technique is involved in maximizing that speed as well. If you're a WR, you need route running techniques, or you won't be able to fully take advantage of being a 4.3 guy. That was Wallace's issue. He needed to learn how to get off the ball against a defender and how to run the route the right way to get him the space to use his speed. If you're a tailback, the timing of hitting a hole and then the ability to make a move to get into open space determines whether you can actually take advantage of your 4.3 speed.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

yeah, the cone drills and other drills measuring short bursts and lateral movement are a much more accurate gauge for football speed. every year it seems a guy gets drafted late who ran a so-so 40 but was near the top in the cone drills and he ends up "coming out of nowhere" to make an impact. 40 times get the hype though.

 

[FlabLoser]

He was always one of the fastest players on the field, but he didn't quite figure out how to use it until his junior year.

As someone else said, agility is a big part of it. That's why I've always thought the 40 was a bad measure to use for football. It's essentially a track time, which doesn't translate at all to football. With laser timing, I think that they'd be better off measuring the last 20 yards of a 40 yard dash or something like that just to measure top end speed. Then use things like the shuttle drill to compare agility.

I think a lot of technique is involved in maximizing that speed as well. If you're a WR, you need route running techniques, or you won't be able to fully take advantage of being a 4.3 guy. That was Wallace's issue. He needed to learn how to get off the ball against a defender and how to run the route the right way to get him the space to use his speed. If you're a tailback, the timing of hitting a hole and then the ability to make a move to get into open space determines whether you can actually take advantage of your 4.3 speed.

I agree with all that.

And running the 40 or any other timed track event is highly technical. People doing that try to perfect their launch, the timing of their acceleration, body posture, etc. Sure a guy like Matt Jones can just not train for it and line up and run a 4.4. But maybe he could have put down a 4.2 if trained for it.

Football speed is more about putting your speed to practice.

Its the difference between having a 600hp car vs having a high powered car that can make the power stick to the road.

 

[gravedigger]

but everyone knows he could change directions, take hits and stay low.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Exactly. The fact that you can shave a tenth or two off your time by training to get your start just right is the reason I think the 40 is such an antiquated football measure.

When football has a position that requires players to line up in a sprinter's stance and use proper form getting off the line to sprint unabated to another point, then the 40 is a good measure.

Speed is obviously important though. That's why I say, if someone wants to Moneyball the NFL in a way, they should start finding a way to track the last 20 yards of a 40. By then, most players are at top speed. It factors out the get off. It factors out any stumbles. You just have full sprint speed for 20 yards. Measure that and you'll get a better idea what you need. Also, I think it's absurd to consider 40 times for an OL. I get it for D-linemen, because they are often chasing RBs and QBs around in the backfield or from behind downfield, but OL don't need straight line speed much at all. They need agility, and that's it. About the only time they get in the open field running is on a screen pass.

 

[slickdawg]

all make a difference.

I think adrenaline is flowing in a game, where it just ain't happening at a timed 40 event.

 

[ckDOG]

Somebody that has pure straight-away acceleration may not be able to start/stop/cut or be intelligent or disciplined enough to take the right angles or wait for blocks. And that's just the aspect when you actually have the ball. If you are a WR, you still have to run routes well enough to be where you need to in order for your QB to get you the ball. Speed is much less valuable if you can't master that part...

40 times are a great indicator of potential, but at the college level it's a vastly overrated measurable. I'd take someone with good size and intelligence over a guy whose only asset is straight-line acceleration.