What is the Likelihood of the Sucess Factor for 2015?

[Capt Morgan]

From an earlier post: "That's roughly 15%. Going back just the last fifteen years, ramblin', private schools have won approx 38% of the state championships in football..."

While that statement is accurate, it can also be somewhat misleading. The issue is as much about "haves" and "have nots", when it comes to state titles, as it anything else, IMHO.

With Naz breaking the seal this year, a total of 27 private schools have a won 98 FB state titles. Very impressive. If we look at the most successful 27 public schools (based on titles/playoff wins), they account for 89 titles. Also very impressive. So those 54 schools (roughly 10% of the number of playoff eligible schools) account for 70% (187 of 268) of the titles - that is really impressive.

And if you look at those exact same 54 private and public schools in the 10 years since the multiplier, they account for 61 (28 private/33 public) of the 80 titles, a whopping 76%!

So it's OK for a relatively small number of public schools to be very successful, but not OK for private schools? Is that really what this is about?

And while it's nice to think that removing/multiplying/applying the success factor to the private schools will provide a "level playing field", in reality what will happen is that the successful public school programs will continue to succeed at a high level and a few new successful public school programs will emerge - all the while most of the schools (private or public) will continue to be "have nots".

 

[HHSTigerFan]

This is why I love ramblin, he hates on the IHSA and their 8 classes, says it too many with only 550 or so schools playing football..

But he wants to make 3 classes out of 45 private schools and thinks it's a great idea??

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

3 NIPL classes and 24 total playoff qualifiers out of 45 schools vs 8 classes and 256 qualifiers out of 550 schools. And your point is?

This post was edited on 12/5 12:29 PM by ramblinman

 

[25sparky]

Re: What is the Likelihood of the Sucess Factor for 2015?[/URL]ramblinman posted on 12/5/2014...

3 NIPL classes and 24 total playoff qualifiers out of 45 schools vs 8 classes and 256 qualifiers out of 550 schools. And your point is?

This post was edited on 12/5 12:29 PM by ramblinman



Just place them all in one class...winner takes all...then the trophy will mean so much more...maybe just get one real big trophy...remember to include all your brethren...keep up the good work...remember...ASAP.

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

By the way, I never really said 8 classes were too many. I like 8 classes, as opposed to 6, because it represents more titles that private schools can win. What I have said is that the IHSA shot itself in the foot when it expanded to 8 classes because in so doing it was really expanding the number of classes (and titles) for mid sized schools which is where the private schools are the strongest.

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Thanks for the input, sparky. We'll take that under advisement.

 

[TeeOH_rivals219717]

Exactly, but don't share that secret

As rambling has stated it schools who are committed to excellence whether public or private that are winning 70+% of the title

 

[Gaelman]

Captain,
If the private schools would just all roll over and lose there would be absolutely no problem.
I've been involved in athletics for a long time & it's always the same issue.
No one complains about Luther North , Guerin Prep,Walther Lutheran or St. Francis DeSales.
It's the Mt. Carmels , JCA's,SHG's and Montini's that draw the ire of the great unwashed.
They refuse to see the incredible challenges & disadvantages that private schools face.

When emotion & logic collide, logic never wins.

 

[25sparky]

Hold on guys...the Promised Land is near...mount your asses and follow Ramblin....NIPLASAP.

 

[jwarigaku]

Sparky,

You still Butt hurt from a few weeks ago? Let it go, all schools have advantages and disadvantages. The programs with the best coaching win more oft than simply the most talent. If the split occurs it's not a win, but rather another dilution of the football sphere in Illinois.

 

[OldLeaf]

I'm not for another dilution of the football sphere in Illinois. I'm for separation with class consolidation in post-season tournament play. In football, separation with 5 public classes and privates can decide how many classes will work best for them.

 

[jwarigaku]

Oldleaf,

Separation is dilution, what's next weight classifications? The publics could have 5 enrollment classification separated by lightweight, middle weight, and heavyweight. I guess we could then equally award everyone. At the end of the day if everyone isn't in the same association it's dilution of competition. Some schools are simply just never going to win the big prize, that doesn't mean they are not successful at what is truly important...teaching young men to be competitive without excuses. The sooner kids learn that the field of life is never level the better prepared they will be to find where it's tilted in their favor for success.

 

[OldLeaf]

You must dislike all Illinois HS post-season tournament play with all the separation and dilution going on....and not only In Ilinois, but in all the other states as well. There has been separation and dilution since the inception of them and since the inception of the IL football playoffs back in 1974. Any more than 1 class is separation and dilution. IL went from 5 classes, to 6 classes and then to the 8 classes now in football for just about the same total number of schools participating in football. They went from awarding 1 championship for about every 100+ schools, to every 85, to now every 68. That continual dilution must be getting to you. Separating privates and publics isn't necessarily more dilution. Five classes of publics and 1 class of privates would buck the trend of dilution for all schools and then you can be in heaven with no dilution amongst the privates.

 

[jwarigaku]

Oldleaf,

Please look back in my posts, I proposed having 5-8A play for a final true state champion. Why not, everyone wants to claim to be the best, if so let's play. Some schools play schools from 5A to 8A during the regular season even if they are only 5A, others not so much. In the real world kids don't get to play in a 8 class system for equal pay, they play in a 1 class system. It's time to teach kids to compete again rather than expect!

 

[25sparky]

Great idea Oldleaf

5 classes Public(NO Privates NO exceptions)....1 Class Privates...winner take all(one very big trophy)...Privates can have the one and only TRUE Champion...that way it will mean so much more and reinforce the need for the Private kids to compete and not expect....Going from 8 classes to 6 classes...should make everyone happy...sure the Publics will back this plan...implement ASAP

 

[jwarigaku]

Sparky,

Still butt hurt more than 2 weeks later...wow!!!!

 

[25sparky]

JW,

Thanks for the concern but my bum is just fine...

 

[guerinfbfan]

Originally posted by 25sparky:

Great idea Oldleaf

1 Class Privates...winner take all(one very big trophy)...Privates can have the one and only TRUE Champion...that way it will mean so much more and reinforce the need for the Private kids to compete and not expect....

So in your eyes you think that small private schools like Guerin, Chicago Christian, Luther North, Westminster Christian, Christian Liberty Academy and Walther Christian should be playing in the same playoff class as Mt. Carmel, St. Rita, Loyola, and Providence?
This post was edited on 12/9 8:40 AM by guerinfbfan

 

[OldLeaf]

I'm just doing my part here to get this thread to at least 75 posts to make mchsalumni poster a very good prognosticator. I'm not interested in ever finding out and determining who is the true one state champion between 5A-8A schools or amongst all the 540 schools in the state of Illinois for that matter. I suspect 90% of IL fans, parents, players, coaches, AD's, administrators and schools aren't either. I find nothing interesting, entertaining, fascinating, compelling, important nor any priority in doing so.....especially between schools' enrollments ranging from 200 to 5000. I don't need to know who is the one true IL state champion.....it's not that important and certainly not one of life's answers that I need to know for any reason. As far as the kids not learning whatever......most things shall be learned somewhere and sometime in one's life whether there is HS football or not, whether there is one or fifty classes in HS football......HS football is not necessarily the appropriate time, place, means or avenue to learn everything about life or even life's most valuable lessons.

One could also argue that real life is full of a pluthera of classes and not just 1 big one for all. There are educated and uneducated classes....there are poor, rich and wealthy classes.......there are blue-collar and white-collar classes......there are lower, middle and upper classes........there are rural, suburban and urban classes......there are minority and majority classes.....there are young, middle-aged and elderly classes.....there are non-professional, skilled-trades and professional classes.......there are east coast, west coast, mountain, north, south and Midwest classes....there are college educated and non-college educated classes.......there are management and labor classes.....there are leaders and followers classes......there are entrepreneurial and non-entrepreneurial classes.....and etc and etc. I think that is true life and reality for all......so playing football in multiple classes is just a reflection of true and real life.....is it not?

This post was edited on 12/9 9:48 AM by OldLeaf

 

[piratesfball66]

Separation of church and state...playoffs.

 

[jwarigaku]

Pirates,

Since Geneseo was supported by, and video produced by FCA(something I personally think is great), do they fall under Church or State? Just need a clarification.

Oldleaf,

The sooner we seen people rather than classes of people the sooner we will be on our way to a better world...this statement gas nothing to do with football!

 

[piratesfball66]

Merely said in jest. I really could care less. Just want the teams and players I root for to play well no matter what the playoff situation.

 

[25sparky]

Re: What is the Likelihood of the Sucess Factor for 2015?[/URL]guerinfbfan posted on 12/9/2014...

Originally posted by 25sparky:

Great idea Oldleaf

1 Class Privates...winner take all(one very big trophy)...Privates can have the one and only TRUE Champion...that way it will mean so much more and reinforce the need for the Private kids to compete and not expect....

So in your eyes you think that small private schools like Guerin, Chicago Christian, Luther North, Westminster Christian, Christian Liberty Academy and Walther Christian should be playing in the same playoff class as Mt. Carmel, St. Rita, Loyola, and Providence?

This post was edited on 12/9 8:40 AM by guerinfbfan


In my eyes the new Private playoffs could consist of as many or as few playoff classes as they desire. The single class Private playoff is the option for those opposed to the "watering down" and "trophys for everyone" theory that they claim the current IHSA playoffs represent. Personally I would see more than one class.

In my eyes the new Public playoffs should consist of 5 or 6 classes.

 

[NazDad]

Dean

What is the Likelihood of someone with knowledge actually answering the question you posed?

 

[OldLeaf]

The likelihood of me answering the question that Dean asked is zero as I have no knowledge on it's current or future status. I only have common sense about it which clearly says it is really dumb and wrong.

 

[Cross Bones]

 

[cornerrat]

All.... Anyone know if the IHSA plans on having a follow up announcement from their June 16th memo that stated the success factor won't be implemented until the 2015/16 season? Is it a go? They have had plenty of time rounding up membership support for it which I believe was the real reason for the delay. Ratsy