What we learned this weekend St. John's, St. Joseph- what's the difference?

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Todd4State

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The bad:

1. Daryl Norris is in the doghouse at least to a degree it appears. Daryl has been a disappointment to me over his career in terms of his power. His hitting has been OK- over .300, I'll take that. But I'm surprised that CT Bradford has more home runs at this point in his career. And now he is doing his Michael Rutledge impression defensively.

2. Evan Mitchell continues to walk too many people, although I thought he got a little bit better as the game went on.

3. Brandon Woodruff isn't quite ready for the SEC rotation- yet.

4. We need to work on our base running a little bit. Especially Demarcus Henderson and CT Bradford. Demarcus should be a little bit better at stealing bases than he is. I think now that they have gotten his hitting better and his defense pretty solid, now they can add that dimension to his game. He just has to get the timing down a little bit better. In fairness to him, he got thrown out on what was scored/called a double steal, but unless I'm mistaken that was a ball in the dirt, and I'm not sure if the runner on first took off and Demarcus didn't at first and he realized what was happening too late, or if he just got a bad jump or what. CT got thrown out at second on a ball that he shouldn't have tried to take second on. That certainly could be on the first base coach- I'm not sure. But it has happened too many times this year.

The good:

1. Our offense is better. This is because we are taking better at bats and we are going the other way more than we did all of last year. We are also adding to our offense in the form of stolen bases and now we have that dimension because we are healthy and have more experience. I'm curious to see if we continue to steal and run like we did this weekend or if it was a case of St. Joseph's having a bad catcher. So far, we are running a LOT more as the weeks go by thus far. We came into this week with 11 stolen bases, and now we have 23. As far as effectiveness, we are 23 out of 29 in stolen base attempts. We'll see if that continues. Once Wes and Hunter get back 100%, we will then have a power dimension to go with everything else and we will have really good balance throughout the lineup.

2. Speaking of- it was good to see Wes and Hunter back in the lineup even if it was limited. My guess is they will be back by next weekend.

3. Jacob Lindgren has just about secured a spot in the weekend rotation. Graveman was OK- I still want our rotation to be Woodruff, Lindgren and Graveman. I think Will Cox should be the Sunday starter, but I have a feeling it's going to be Evan Mitchell.

4. Johnathan Holder passes Johnathan Papelbon on the all-time MSU saves list. He is now seventh overall. Nothing else to say about that. He got squeezed a little bit on Friday, worked through it, and then today he struck out the side. Someone mentioned being worried about him throwing his fastball early in the count yesterday and being worried about hitters adjusting- the reason he does that is because he is the closer and he normally comes in with a lead. Because of that, he knows that hitters are likely going to be taking pitches hoping that he falls behind. All closers at all levels do that. Watch a MLB game and if a closer falls behind, a lot of times they will act royally pissed- that's why. They know the hitter is going to be taking and all they have to do is throw strikes. Even if hitters adjust, his stuff is good enough that they're not likely to hit it anyway.

5. What I think the lineup should be. I'm sure Will James will take credit for this and then make fun of my for correctly predicting that Brett Pirtle would be our starting second baseman on opening day.

Frazier- SS
CT- CF
Rea- 1B
Porter- DH
Renfroe-RF
Detz- 2B
Flair- 3B
Slauter-C
Henderson- LF

6. The upcoming week- we have Valley and we have Woodruff who has hopefully cleaned up his mechanics out of the stretch. Hopefully we will hit better against them than we did against Grambling. Central Arkansas is a good team. They are 11-1 and they are a Southland Conference team, which is not a bad baseball conference. They have beaten a lot of SWAC team, sure- but they also beat Wichita State at home and their only loss is to Vanderbilt. With only three games, our pitching staff won't be stretched quite as much. We will have either Will Cox or Evan Mitchell out of the bullpen. Central Arkansas might be a regional team, so it's a good test before SEC play. You could make a strong argument that Central Arkansas is the best team we will have played up until this point.

7. We are 15-0 and we seem to be improving every week. I really like where we are heading in all facets of the game. Just like every year, the lineup will settle itself out by the time we start SEC play and hopefully we will play our best baseball at the end of the year like we have the past couple of years under Cohen. The encouraging thing to me is we really haven't hit our peak yet in my opinion because we are doing what we are doing without our two best power hitters and our ace at 100% for the most part.
 

cohen#1dawg

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Im not his biggest fan but the coaches love the evan mitchell ross mitchell combo so he will prob edge someone for that last spot on the weekend.
 

shoeless joe

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i agree on the weekend rotation but until woodruff is all the way back i like lindgren, graveman, cox. evan has great stuff but has always had control issues...if he has a spot i assume its because the coaches like the evan/ross contrast of styles and feel those two together can get us deep into a game.

why do you feel rea should hit third and renfroe fifth? i have always preferred the most dynamic hitter in the three hole, and when healthy that is what renfroe is.

right now we are doing what good teams do...winning in different ways. we will find out a lot more next week.
 

Arthur2478

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Detz needs to hit 3rd. Hunter 4th. Rea 5th.
You can't have a static lineup as you suggest. If we face a lefty, you certainly don't want 3 left handed hitters at the top of the lineup. Slide Detz up and down based on the pitcher you're facing.
 

Will James

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I want the best on base guys at the top in front of Renfroe and Rea. Against lefties who would you put 3rd? That is an overrated move anyways I'm pretty sure Frazier CT and Detz can handle lefties just as good as right hander X in our lineup.
 

maroonmania

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Maybe Norris has gotten himself into the doghouse and I know we have a smart coaching staff BUT how this staff continues to try and play Sam Frost at 3rd just leaves me stunned. Nothing against Frost, he is at least a decent 2nd baseman, but our coaches continually trying to stick him at 3rd is just not fair to him because you are asking him to do something he does NOT have the arm to do. Last year it was a little more acceptable because our options were limited but with all the viable candidates we have now to play 3rd behind Norris I am just dumbfounded that Frost seems to be the choice. Not sure what the issue is with Flair not getting to play and Hann at least has an acceptable arm for 3rd. Also, giving Detz a shot there might be worthwhile, but playing Frost there makes no sense at all.
 

Railin Jemmye

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Flair sucks in the field. He is destined for DH after Porter leaves. In no way should he be playing 3B over Norris. I'd rather see Detz over there than Flair.

If Norris would screw his head on straight he'd be an All-American. Damn shame.
 

KurtRambis4

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I haven't seen

him practice, so I cannot speak to his (Flari) abilities in the field. i do know (in extremely limited action) that he has zero errors. My question is, what makes you say he sucks in the field? He cannot be any worse that Frost, at 3B. Frost cannot...CANNOT...make a throw from 3B to 1B. that is just unacceptable.
 

Railin Jemmye

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I don't think Frost should be on the field at all this year, in any capacity. I understand Cohen likes him because he works hard in practice. And he's serviceable at 2B, and has played a good bit. I agree he shouldn't be at 3B and I cannot explain why Cohen would do it.
 

KurtRambis4

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So

why did you say Flair sucks in the field, again?

He cannot be any worse than the two guys we've been playing there.
 

skb124

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Eh being a stats guy you know better than that. The left on left situation is a real thing and lefty pitchers do better against lefty hitters. That's not overrated. I do like your lineup but I think against lefties just switch renfroe to third and detz to fourth or fifth with rea in the other 4Th/5th slot.
 
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It's just confusing to me as to why we haven't tried Detz at 2nd. From interviews with Cohen, it seems he isn't even considering it. He's talked about moving Detz to 3rd. Cohen has to have seen something at practice to not have given him a shot at this point.
 

Railin Jemmye

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Because I've seen him there and he's not good. Norris is easily the best of the bunch. Use your brain.
 

shoeless joe

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Detz needs to hit 3rd. Hunter 4th. Rea 5th.

i prefer detz in the 4 or 5 hole. he has shown he is a clutch run producer and fits those slots. my only argument against him batting 3rd are that that would put 3 lefties at the top. this wohld be a disadvantage late in games when opposing teams could got to the pen, get a lefty, and face three left handed hitters in a row.
on the flip side if we have renfroe third and detz 4th then that opposing coach has to make a decision: throw a lefty against renfroe so he can face detz OR bring in a righty for renfroe and THEN have the same decision when detz comes up.

breaking up the lefties in the line up is extremely advantageous because either A. we have hitters up with an advantage over the pitcher or B. we force a team to go deeper into their pen.
 

Todd4State

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Im not his biggest fan but the coaches love the evan mitchell ross mitchell combo so he will prob edge someone for that last spot on the weekend.

I think you are spot on with this. They like to use Ross in day games, which in college and the SEC we play a majority of our games at that time.
 

Todd4State

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i agree on the weekend rotation but until woodruff is all the way back i like lindgren, graveman, cox. evan has great stuff but has always had control issues...if he has a spot i assume its because the coaches like the evan/ross contrast of styles and feel those two together can get us deep into a game.

why do you feel rea should hit third and renfroe fifth? i have always preferred the most dynamic hitter in the three hole, and when healthy that is what renfroe is.

right now we are doing what good teams do...winning in different ways. we will find out a lot more next week.

That's a good question about Rea and Renfroe. I think they are both interchangeable because they both have a ton of power. I like Renfroe behind Porter because I am hoping that will cause pitchers to throw Porter better pitches to hit. Renfroe also gives us speed in the five spot in the order that Wes doesn't have.
 

KurtRambis4

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Calm down

Sally. You seem to not be understanding the question. You said Flair sucks at 3B. I asked why, and you responded with you have seen him there. What have you seen that makes you think he sucks? That's the question. His range? His arm? What?
 

Todd4State

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Maybe Norris has gotten himself into the doghouse and I know we have a smart coaching staff BUT how this staff continues to try and play Sam Frost at 3rd just leaves me stunned. Nothing against Frost, he is at least a decent 2nd baseman, but our coaches continually trying to stick him at 3rd is just not fair to him because you are asking him to do something he does NOT have the arm to do. Last year it was a little more acceptable because our options were limited but with all the viable candidates we have now to play 3rd behind Norris I am just dumbfounded that Frost seems to be the choice. Not sure what the issue is with Flair not getting to play and Hann at least has an acceptable arm for 3rd. Also, giving Detz a shot there might be worthwhile, but playing Frost there makes no sense at all.

I don't understand that either. It's the mystery of Sam Frost. Sometimes coaches just like players for whatever reason. Doesn't mean that they should start. I have a feeling we are going to see Frost at second some when SEC play starts.
 

Railin Jemmye

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"Calm down Sally". Whatever funny guy. The guy's just not a smooth infielder. He's a hitter, and we have better options on defense, which is what Cohen has built the team's strength around.
 

Railin Jemmye

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Your prerogative. But I'll be proven right as I usually am on things that I know about (which is every thing where I offer a strong opinion on this board).
 

Railin Jemmye

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He seems bigger and plays bigger than the 5'10", 177 he's listed at. Just doesn't seem like the smooth fielding middle infielder than Cohen's looking for.
 

Railin Jemmye

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If nobody else jumps up and takes the position, then we probably should start him there. He's proven to be OK defensively, and at least he's mature and has been there before. Not a terrible option if nothing else is working. Hits better than Pirtle at the very least.
 

shoeless joe

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Im not his biggest fan but the coaches love the evan mitchell ross mitchell combo so he will prob edge someone for that last spot on the weekend.


i think its the contrast in styles. the power stuff by evan followed by the soft tossing crafty left hander. let evan go as long as his control will allow then have the security of knowing ross could come in and give you 4+ out of the pen.
 

KurtRambis4

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Hey

man, chill out. Every question is not an affront to your intellignece. I just wanted to know your reasoning behind your opinion that he sucks. It took you what, three posts to give it. Thanks.
 

KurtRambis4

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Exactly.

You would think someone that has extremely strong opinions based on stats would acknowledge this facet of the game.
 

Will James

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You would think someone that has extremely strong opinions based on stats would acknowledge this facet of the game.

If it's me, I have Renfroe and Rea in the 4 and 5 hole every game. There is no other right handed hitter that I feel would top left handed Detz against lefties. Hence, my point. I don't care if there are 3 lefties in a row because those 3 are our best on base guys for Renfroe and Rea regardless of pitcher.
 

maroonmania

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I don't understand that either. It's the mystery of Sam Frost. Sometimes coaches just like players for whatever reason. Doesn't mean that they should start. I have a feeling we are going to see Frost at second some when SEC play starts.

And as I said, as long as he stays at 2nd I can live with that. Frost might not be the first guy I would throw out there at 2nd base but at least he can play the position, 3rd base not so much.
 

shoeless joe

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If it's me, I have Renfroe and Rea in the 4 and 5 hole every game. There is no other right handed hitter that I feel would top left handed Detz against lefties. Hence, my point. I don't care if there are 3 lefties in a row because those 3 are our best on base guys for Renfroe and Rea regardless of pitcher.



the top of the order may only be up in order in the same inning once a game. late game match ups have to be takem into account. in the first inning who cares if all the hitters are left handed...but late in the game we could create favorable match ups and force the opponents hand a little more if we mix it up.

not enough difference in those top 5 so why not mix up the lefties and righties?
 

GhostOfJackie

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I don't understand that either. It's the mystery of Sam Frost. Sometimes coaches just like players for whatever reason. Doesn't mean that they should start. I have a feeling we are going to see Frost at second some when SEC play starts.

I feel like Sam Frost is the Phil Turner of MSU baseball. Sometime's he comes off the bench to give MSU a spark, and sometimes he comes off the bench and screws everything up.

With that said, I do think more of Frost than alot of people on this board do. he got some clutch hits for us last year (just like Phil used to). He is a tough guy that can play multiple positions (Phil) and he seems to have a hard work ethic.
 
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Will James

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the top of the order may only be up in order in the same inning once a game. late game match ups have to be takem into account. in the first inning who cares if all the hitters are left handed...but late in the game we could create favorable match ups and force the opponents hand a little more if we mix it up.

not enough difference in those top 5 so why not mix up the lefties and righties?

There is a huge difference in the top 5 and the others. The on base guys will always come up in front of Renfroe and Rea, I dont understand your point there, that's the point of a lineup.
 

Todd4State

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the top of the order may only be up in order in the same inning once a game. late game match ups have to be takem into account. in the first inning who cares if all the hitters are left handed...but late in the game we could create favorable match ups and force the opponents hand a little more if we mix it up.

not enough difference in those top 5 so why not mix up the lefties and righties?

Not to mention hitting Rea and Renfroe 3 &4 you might get them one more at bat per game. But yes- I do agree. You can cause the other team to take their left handed specialist out after one batter vs. having their top left hand specialist face three in a row.
 

MedDawg

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Here is where I got it...

I was doing a search the other day for stats and came upon this NCAA search query:

http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/careersearch

Searching for a year like 1989 and Baseball will result in the same thing as 1985--a reprint of a manually typed page. But search for 2003, and you'll get an HTML page with sortable stats for every player. Just now looked at it and it's pretty cool. Choose ALL Years and Baseball and it starts with the 1967 season.

Then I searched for All Sports for 2002-2003 and it gave several different sports. Including football, of course.
 

KurtRambis4

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Exactly.

I have absolutely no problem with Frost at 2nd. He's actually hit the ball well, so far. However, him being at 3B is probably the biggest mistake Cohen makes (to me).
 
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