By the end of Driscoll's run, it was a 2:1 Male Female ratio and there were stories about lack of discipline, particularly of football players. If you absorbed Q of P's 250 with Larry's expected 450/500, you might have some similar issues, although I dont think one sport will be the end-all be-all for a coed Laurence as it became for Driscoll.
What will St. Larry do?
- Thread starter mullin17
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He was even a saint at St. Rita if you remember the 1988 NBC-5 Warner Saunders visit where one of the players had a white Bird Celtics jacket.
Wait, there's another St. Larry?
I believe it was a law: you either had a green Celtics Bird jacket or a blue Georgetown jacket. Can't recall what the Hispanics were wearing back then.
Yes .. I'm a practicing Catholic and I believe it's very disrespectful to use some sort of nickname for a saint of my church. Rice, Providence, MC and LA are not the sames of saints. Rita, Patrick and Ignatius are. Not a difficult concept.
Thank you.
Driscoll really lucked out when they were around in football at the end. Went from 6 to 8 classes, no Success Factor yet, they had a 2:1 male to female ration which kept their classification down (if all boys doubled so the small female population kept their classification down), and the multiplier didn’t even start until their last 3 seasons.
So using the name St Joe's and St Pat's is very disrespectful? How about calling a church/ school St Ray's or St Mike's. I think you are really stretching. You may feel it is "very" disrespectful, but you are in the small minority.
From one practicing Catholic to another...
Apparently, you think that because SICP chose to name itself after the first name of a saint, and LA chose to name itself after the last name of the very same saint, that one school's nickname should be treated with more respect than the other. Interesting.
Furthermore, Blessed Edmund Rice, after whom BR was named, has been beatified and is therefore officially recognized by the church as someone who may be venerated. Why does BR not fall within your respect crusade? Are you drawing some sort of respect line at canonization? Or does Rice fall under your last name exception to the respect rule?
I hear priests and pastors frequently refer to their parishes as St. Mike, St. Joe, etc.
Lighten up.
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So is Rita's own administration being disrespectful when on their own website and press releases they refer to Ritamen, not St. Ritamen
Loyola is not the last name of St. Ignatius. Full name is Iñigo Lopez de Oñaz , He is from a Basque region and born in a castle called Loyola.
"Alex ... Chutzpah for 800, please."
A guy who googles Lives of the Saints is telling me to lighten up? Get real
Pat and Mike are more than nicknames ... they're abbreviations. Larry is a nickname, but not an abbreviation.
I was in high school when St. Laurence opened. I've known neighbors, friends, a doctor, all sorts of men who went there to school. Not one of them ever used the expression, "St. Larry's." The first time I encountered it was on this board a few years back.
When Brother Rice changes it's name to St. Edmund's, let us know. Till then, enjoy your search
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Back in Ignatius' time, it was quite common for feudal lords and powerful families to take on the name of their manors. His father's name was Beltrán Yañez de Oñaz y Loyola. So, Loyola is, indeed, a family name as well as a place name.
Regardless, in just about any English language reference to this saint's name, he is referred to as St. Ignatius Loyola, or St. Ignatius of Loyola.
You are splitting hairs on this, just as you split hairs on Barry vs Barack, Larry vs Laurence, and the difference between how much respect is due someone who is beatified vs. canonized.
You're a hoot.
Your argument is with HRCJR, not me. I always heard of him as "...of Loyola:, but if you say differently, fine with me. I don't bring him up in conversation all that much.
I'll be at war with you soon if you keep posting in third person.
Out of nowhere, you bring me up in your post.
What gives you the right to define me in any regard?
You're a shallow narcissist who believes the world revolves around himself.
Yes, I have strong opinions, but if someone calmly disagrees with me, fine. I tell him that he's welcome to his own opinion.
If anyone disagrees with you, in any sense, you go wild ...responding with 800 word diatribes.
Please leave me out of your comments.
Thirty-one words and you lose your mind. It didn't take anywhere near 800. If that is your definition of going wild...you have no idea what going wild is. I think your post is much closer to "going wild." Time to go back on your meds. Maybe meditation and getting in touch with your inner-self will help. Nothing else has. This seems to happen with you every three weeks or so. What's up with that?
I love your "civil" response. Hahahaha!! This from a "practicing Catholic" too. Religious hypocrisy is a far worse infraction than saying or writing St. Larry. No one finds it offensive...but you of course. What a sad life you lead to sit around every day waiting to be offended about something.
I will close by saying, enjoy your day and smile. You'll be amazed by the wonders it does. Dude, I am having loads of fun here...how about you?
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Question again...
Why is there animosity between the single sex schools and their local counterparts of the other sex ie HC/Guerin as explained in this thread?
Is it typically over something specific between the two schools because after reading this thread it seems more wide spread
Why is there animosity between the single sex schools and their local counterparts of the other sex ie HC/Guerin as explained in this thread?
Is it typically over something specific between the two schools because after reading this thread it seems more wide spread
Great question, Bones.
I'll attempt to answer it, but I don't really have much more than opinion and anecdotal observations based on my, ahem, 50+ year association with Catholic education (the only public school I ever attended was for kindergarten and a summer school typing class, my own kids have a combined 47 years' worth of attending Catholic schools, plus I worked in and for Catholic schools for almost 15 years -- although not currently). Since the mid-1960s, there has not been a single year where I have not either attended a Catholic school, paid tuition to a Catholic school, or had a Catholic school put food on my table.
Pertaining to the boys vs girls schools relationship, I wouldn't label it in general as animosity. At times there might be animosity but, on an ongoing basis, I would refer to it more as strained relations. These strained relations have, at their root, the battle of the sexes that has been raging since the beginning of human existence. More specific to these schools' Catholic identity, though, they have the strained and complicated male/female clergy dynamic that has been going on within the Church pretty much since its inception. It should come as no surprise to even a casual observer of the Catholic Church that there is a definite hierarchy throughout the various levels of church leadership that is dominated almost exclusively by men.
Related to the general battle of the sexes and the church male/female clergy dynamic are the complicated relations within and between male and female religious orders of the Catholic Church (Jesuits, Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Augustinians, Vincentians, Benedictines, Irish Christian Brothers, French Christian Brothers, Marist Brothers, Congregation of the Holy Cross, Sisters of Mercy, Sisters of Providence, Sisters of St. Joseph, etc.). The unchurched/uninformed might assume that members of these religious orders should all be on the same page and pursuing similar agendas because, after all, Catholic is Catholic, right? How much different can they be?
The answer is very different.
They have very long histories of being different. Indeed, those differences are celebrated and cherished within those religious orders. They have different organizational/corporate structures, different formation/training, different charisms/spiritualities, and different traditions/rules. Men and women religious who belong to religious orders have spent many years working, worshiping and living communally within sub-communities OF those orders. It's what they know. It's their comfort zones, if you will. While few or none of them would likely admit it publicly outside of their own orders, I think that many/most of them believe, or at least feel, within their heart of hearts, that THEIR order is the truest and the best order. Some of them may even find it difficult or uncomfortable to communicate with those from other orders because they talk a different talk and have walked a very different walk.
To try to find a Protestant analogy, you have the various Lutheran organizational bodies (ELCA, LCMS, WELS, etc.) that are different. You have the Methodist Church and the African Methodist Episcopal Church that are different. You have the various different Baptist conventions. It's a somewhat weak analogy because the differences and traditions of many of the Catholic religious orders have been in place since well before the Protestant Reformation.
In more recent years, you have the other dynamic of women in general, and nuns/sisters in particular, calling out the Church for its male domination. Women don't like being subjugated/repressed by men and the men in the Church don't like it when the women call THEM out for the subjugation/repression. Catch, meet 22.
SO, you have all the above as important background to consider in the relations between the leadership of the Catholic boys and girls schools. On the part of the boys or coed schools sponsored by religious orders of men, I think that many of the members of those communities have certain feelings of superiority (conscious or sub-conscious) in their dealings with the schools sponsored by religious orders of women. I'm not saying that those feelings are justifiable, but I am saying that they exist. In the girls or coed schools sponsored by religious orders of women, I think that many of the members of those communities are guarded, at best (and suspicious/envious/vindictive at worst), in their dealings with schools sponsored by religious orders of men.
Personally, I don't blame the schools sponsored by women religious for the guarded, suspicious, etc. position they take with schools sponsored by religious men given the background I have tried to explain with respect to the battle of the sexes in general and the subjugation of women that has taken place in the Church forever.
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Wow, kudos Ramblin. I can't imagine a more informed or well written response than the above.
Regarding the above portion of your post concerning religious orders, a Carmelite priest once told me the Jesuits were like the "Marine Corp" of Catholic religious orders. They considered themselves to be "a cut above" the other orders.
And I knew a Jesuit priest who rarely missed an opportunity to speak ill of Dominicans.
Priests are most definitely not without sin.
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thanks for your insight @ramblinman
seems like an interesting study topic, but also massive at the same time. The good part is that I would be starting at zero so I wouldn't have any preconceived biases towards one group or another, the bad part is that I'd be starting at the very basics.
seems like an interesting study topic, but also massive at the same time. The good part is that I would be starting at zero so I wouldn't have any preconceived biases towards one group or another, the bad part is that I'd be starting at the very basics.
And then there's the one about...
Two cannibals meet one day. The first cannibal says to the other, "I just can't seem to get my missionaries to be tender. I've tried everything. I've baked them, roasted them, stewed them, and barbecued them. I've tried every sort of marinade. I just cannot seem to get them tender."
The second cannibal asks, "What kind of Missionary do you use?"
The first one replied, "You know, the ones that hang out down by the bend of the river. They have those brown cloaks with a rope around the waist and they're sort of bald on top with a strange ring of hair on their heads."
"No wonder!" the second cannibal replies. "Those are friars!"
Cue MC63 being offended in 3, 2, 1...
Two cannibals meet one day. The first cannibal says to the other, "I just can't seem to get my missionaries to be tender. I've tried everything. I've baked them, roasted them, stewed them, and barbecued them. I've tried every sort of marinade. I just cannot seem to get them tender."
The second cannibal asks, "What kind of Missionary do you use?"
The first one replied, "You know, the ones that hang out down by the bend of the river. They have those brown cloaks with a rope around the waist and they're sort of bald on top with a strange ring of hair on their heads."
"No wonder!" the second cannibal replies. "Those are friars!"
Cue MC63 being offended in 3, 2, 1...
Well - if a girl has to go to now McAuley, Marist or Naz then it's going to help Rice, Marist or Naz more since if they have a little brother that might have followed them to StL for the ride then should be interesting. St Albert the Great and St Patricia (2 big parishes for StL) are way down and they just announced closing of St Louis deMontford in Oak Lawn.
The demographics have completely changed around STL and that part of the city. Catholic schools are just eating themselves up. I just cannot see them, Rita, etc. surviving for much longer unless they are content with school sizes of 300-500.
The location of Rita is just getting worse by the year. For a school with such great facilites and such great tradition I just do not know how much longer they can either A) stay open or B) stay at that location. For years they have looked into moving and may have no other option to stay viable.
Rice and Marist are suffering a little bit as well. Leo is on fumes and if not for the alums would be long gone. MC and DLS seemed to be doing ok but the large south side Catholic High Schools of yesteryear are disappearing sadly.
The location of Rita is just getting worse by the year. For a school with such great facilites and such great tradition I just do not know how much longer they can either A) stay open or B) stay at that location. For years they have looked into moving and may have no other option to stay viable.
Rice and Marist are suffering a little bit as well. Leo is on fumes and if not for the alums would be long gone. MC and DLS seemed to be doing ok but the large south side Catholic High Schools of yesteryear are disappearing sadly.
I think in the big pic , they will go co-ed. Already going back on earlier statement. Would be an alternative to Marist in the area. While their #s are up for them (really had nowhere to go but up) still needs improvement. An all-girl school right next to u closes just have to do something about that. I 'm sure will get some pushback from the older alums but StL not that old (opened early 60s) so I am sure many open to going co-ed.
I think what would be really interesting to know is on what side of this issue the real power brokers on the Laurence board come down and if what we are seeing here with this email outreach is their attempt to to get alumni and others to start thinking about something that is already a fait accompli.
MC63--I know I've been one of the posters who always use these nicknames. Sorry you feel this way, but like you say, you have every right to your opinion. I think it's harmless.
We stand at the precipice of the collapse of another option for Catholic education. The SL/QOP merger/closure is just another nail in the coffin of a way of life that many of us hold sacred, that many of us know as "our way of life." I mourn for the future of kids in these areas that will lose options that we viewed as given years ago. I believe that most people on this board look at the Catholic schools in terms of football. I understand that because this is a football board. What most don't understand is that the vast majority of families that send their kids to these schools could care less about football or sports they're simply looking for better options for their kids. The options are dwindling. I for one am very sorry to see this going on.
It's not just Catholic schools that are hurting, but the entire Catholic culture.
I'm an usher at my parish's Saturday 5pm Mass. There are very few -- almost no -- young couples in attendance. Screaming babies are not a problem because there are none. The same scenario is almost as bad at the Sunday morning masses. More and more I find that the funerals of guys I knew as kids are not held at a Catholic church. Routinely, the weddings I attend -- where at least one of them was raised Catholic -- are at vineyards, forest preserves or hotels. Frequently, the presider is a judge, a minister or a rabbi.
A Catholic woman I know very well was upset that one of her grand-daughters was converting and being married in a Jewish service. She just found out that another grand-daughter will be married in a Hindu service next summer. None of her 13 grandchildren attend Mass.
I've been an usher at my parish's 3:30 family Mass on Christmas Eve for twenty years. Traditionally, we had huge crowds -- with standees two or three deep. That has gradually declined. Last December 24th,practically everyone had a seat.
If you think it's only a problem in this country, you should visit Ireland. In some parishes, attendance is one-fourth of what it was 25 years ago. The main problem there is the cover-up of the abuse scandal. They also have their own scandal. the Christian Brothers ran most of the boys secondary schools for many decades. They were brutal with discipline to the point of physical and emotional damage. Many adult males in Ireland will have nothing to do with the church as a result.
I'm sure that most Catholic members of this board could tell similar stories.
Personally, I feel that the Church is out of synch with the faithful. For all sorts of reasons, I believe we need to allow priests to marry, and women to be ordained.
I no longer consider myself to be primarily Catholic. I am a progressive Christian who chooses to practice Catholicism as a means of participation. I know that sounds screwy, but it's the best I can do. I thought deep and hard about leaving the Church -- and become part of the United Church of Christ. It is far more progressive and liberal in its philosophy. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that being Catholic was part of who I am. I could no longer change that than I could become left-handed or brown-eyed.
Sorry to drone on for so long.