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What would it be like if MS State and OM were one, like LSU...

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BCash

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...I've heard before that the reason State was created and that it wasn't just added as a part of OM was that the douches at OM at the time didn't want an Ag school associated with OM. </p>

Anyway, what would it be like (specifically athletically) if the State of MS was like Lousiana?? What if State and OM were one big *** school. I say this because the state of MS is actually WAY to small to have two SEC programs, much less two SEC and an C-USA.

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Maroon Eagle

Maroon Eagle

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From Ed Hinton's still-excellent 1991 Sports Illustrated article:</p>
Considering their state's paltry resources, the University of Mississippi and Mississippi State University-their formal names-probably shouldn't even be separate institutions, let alone schools that support separate football teams in the high-rent Southeastern Conference. "This state is just too little, in terms of people, and too poor to sustain a major football rivalry," says Morris, who wrote The Courting of Marcus Dupree, a 1983 portrait of the state's sociological relationships with football and black players.</p>

And yet the demographics of Ole Miss and Mis'ippi State-homogenous as they might seem from the outside-are more socially opposite than those of Alabama and Auburn, Florida and Florida State, or Texas and Texas A&M. So Mis'ippi society can't live without what it can't afford.</p>

Ole Miss is the last bastion of the traditions of the old Southern gentry. Its teams are nicknamed Rebels; its fans still wave Confederate flags despite official disavowal of the symbol by the university and its alumni association; its marching band still plays Dixie. The very term Ole Miss is not a contraction of "Old Mississippi," but an old slave term-a plantation owner's daughter was called "the young miss" and his wife "the old miss."</p>

Mis'ippi State's people loathed those symbols long before loathing them was nationally cool. Mis'ippi State was born of a boycott by the working classes against the very aristocracy that Ole Miss embodies. In 1872, after the federal government provided for land-grant agricultural and mechanical colleges, the Mississippi legislature tried to attach an agriculture school to Ole Miss. Land was designated near the Oxford campus, a dean was hired, a curriculum was designed, the school was proclaimed open, and, according to Ole Miss history professor David Sansing, nobody enrolled. "Not a single student came," Sansing says, "because the sons of the industrial classes didn't want to go up to Ole Miss, where they would have to go to school with the sons of the gentry."</p>

So an entirely new school was created in Starkville. It opened in 1880 as Mississippi A&M but quickly acquired a popular nickname: People's College. No vestiges of class structure, such as those that prevailed at Ole Miss, were allowed at what would become Mississippi State.</p>
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To answer your question, Louisiana's not a good comparison-- too many I-A schools. Arkansas and maybe Nebraska would be better states for the sake of comparison.
 
B

BCash

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Oct 21, 2008
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...I still feel like LSU is a good example, as is Ark, Nebraska, etc. They absolutely dominate their respective states.</p>
 
J

jackobee

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That SI article is crap.

From the MSU website under History.
The University began as The Agricultural and Mechanical College of the State of Mississippi, one of the national Land-Grant Colleges established after Congress had passed the Morrill Act in 1862. It was created by the Mississippi Legislature on February 28, 1878, to fulfill the mission of offering training in "agriculture, horticulture and the mechanical arts . . . without excluding other scientific and classical studies, including military tactics." The College received its first students in the fall of 1880 in the presidency of General Stephen D. Lee. In 1887 Congress passed the Hatch Act, which provided for the establishment of the Agricultural Experiment Station in 1888. Two other pieces of federal legislation provided funds for extending the mission of the College: in 1914, the Smith-Lever Act called for "instruction in practical agriculture and home economics to persons not attendant or resident," thus creating the state-wide effort which led to Extension offices in every county in the State; and, in 1917, the Smith-Hughes Act provided for the training of teachers in vocational education.</p>
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B

Bulldog Backer

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They are the only states with two SEC members. Alabama has a population of 4,661,900 with Alabama and Auburn, both who recruit nationally. Troy and UAB are the only other Division 1A schools, although USA plans one. Tennessee recruits nationally and always has, as does, Vanderbilt. Tennessee for recruits who are great athletes, Vandy for good athletes who can get into their school. Tennessee has a population of 6,214, 888 and 3 Division 1A universities. Mississippi has a population of 2,938,618. Mississippi also has 3 schools who try to compete in Division 1A.

Here are the SEC schools with their state populations:

Alabama and Auburn: Population 4,661,900, about 2,330,000 population per SEC member.
Arkansas: Population 2,855,390, 2,833,390 per SEC member.
Georgia: Population 9,685,744, 9,685,744 per SEC member.
Florida: Population 18,328,340, 18,328,340 per SEC member.
Kentucky: Population 4,269,245, 4,269,245 per SEC member.
Louisiana: Population 4,410, 796, 4,410,796 per SEC member.
Mississippi State and Mississippi: Population 2,938,216, about 1,465,000 per SEC member.
South Carolina: Population 4,479,800, 4,479,800 per SEC member.
Vanderbilt and Tennessee: Population 6,214,888, about 3,107,000 per SEC member.

You ask why MSU struggles to compete in the SEC? Lowest budget, lowest population support, and highest competion for recruits. While true that Georgia also has Georgia Tech, Florida has FSU, Miami, USF, UCF, and FIU, they are still not in the SEC. Louisiana State competes against La Tech and the directional schools. Kentucky competes against Louisville, and Arkansas competes against Arkansas State.
 
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jackobee

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Sorry - I misread the SI article to say the Morrill act was 1872 rather than 1862. I am well aware of who David Sansing is (or was - isn't he dead now?) I just don't really buy in to the clash of classes reference in the SI article as to the reason for the demise of the agricultural school at Ole Miss. I think it was more the resistance against scientific agriculture, "book farming," he refers to in the pages you cited.
 
Maroon Eagle

Maroon Eagle

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As far as I know Sansing's alive. I seem to recall he was interviewed last fall before the presidential debate at Ole Miss. There may be some Nafoomers among us who could answer that question with more certainty though.
 
Maroon Eagle

Maroon Eagle

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I knew Ballard had written a successor work to Bettersworth's "People's University" and earlier "People's College."
 
R

RebelBruiser

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I disagree, because the state of Mississippi has a lot more talent than Arkansas as a whole. If there were only one major university, it would probably be a step below Louisiana and LSU, if not on the same plane.

The only problem is that when MSU was created, sports wasn't a big deal. Otherwise, they'd have tried to create a super university instead of splitting the ag school and the law school, etc.
 
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HammerOfTheDogs

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BCash said:
...I've heard before that the reason State was created and that it wasn't just added as a part of OM was that the douches at OM at the time didn't want an Ag school associated with OM.</p>
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