The supposedly blue blood that is UofL basketball is currently 2-17 and the laughing stock of not only the ACC but college basketball.. I don’t think this fan base has really let that sink in and just how unacceptable that truly is.. I mean, ffs we lost to a D2 school in an exhibition game this year? For the sake of your alma mater KP… do us all a favor a resign after this year because we are currently at a rock bottom that no one thought was previously obtainable
When will this nightmare be over…
- Thread starter Shady4st
- Start date
According to Mark Blankenbaker, who did the research, the Cards are 297 in KenPom rankings. The worst ranking of any Power Six team ever. Historically awful.
Yep….all because of our horrible players, right? Coaching has nothing at all to do with this, right?
According to many, KP’s historically bad coaching is not part of the problem. Yet, if we happen to win one or more games the rest of this season, it will all be about how well the team is being coached.
Apparently, you can ONLY be a good coach if you have exceptionally talented players. Who knew!?!
Yep….all because of our horrible players, right? Coaching has nothing at all to do with this, right?
According to many, KP’s historically bad coaching is not part of the problem. Yet, if we happen to win one or more games the rest of this season, it will all be about how well the team is being coached.
Apparently, you can ONLY be a good coach if you have exceptionally talented players. Who knew!?!
no signed point guard for next year.
3 star point guard for 2024 who clearly won't be ready to play.
what is the plan? what if we can't get a point guard in the transfer portal?
3 star point guard for 2024 who clearly won't be ready to play.
what is the plan? what if we can't get a point guard in the transfer portal?
Spot on. In my opinion, this settles this debate. Given our horrendously bad players, is anything expected of the coaching staff?
What if we get 3 PG's and 3 SG's and after losing much of our size, go into next season with just Wheeler and this new guy from Africa?
What if KP's second season is mostly guards and short wings and little size inside. What would we all say then?
My point is there is simply no way of knowing who will sign to play for KP at this point. Obviously, the team needs a balance of talented and high IQ players. Had this been a 14 and 17 season, we would probably have a good idea who would be back and who we may get.
Instead, it's going to be 3 and 28 and there's just no telling if anyone currently on the roster will be back. We're going to need more than just a PG next season.
Payne's not resigning and leaving millions of dollars behind. People need to stop saying that to express what they wish would happen. It's not anything close to reality.
We have had a number of people recently exit U of L with large buyouts. None of them simply walked away without compensation, without a fight, and another place to go...
We have had a number of people recently exit U of L with large buyouts. None of them simply walked away without compensation, without a fight, and another place to go...
Payne has somehow brought the fan base together…
In a collective of wanting him gone. I don’t know how anyone could vouch for him at this point. Zipp is right though. We’re stuck with him and his “coaching” for another year or two. With zero commits aside from a Mack commit and a borderline 100 player, we have nothing coming in or to look forward to, until the portal opens. Which I highly doubt any top transfer will want to come to this dumpster fire, and play for a coach who doesn’t develop, nor knows what he’s doing. Dark times until the next hire. This truly is the death penalty.
In a collective of wanting him gone. I don’t know how anyone could vouch for him at this point. Zipp is right though. We’re stuck with him and his “coaching” for another year or two. With zero commits aside from a Mack commit and a borderline 100 player, we have nothing coming in or to look forward to, until the portal opens. Which I highly doubt any top transfer will want to come to this dumpster fire, and play for a coach who doesn’t develop, nor knows what he’s doing. Dark times until the next hire. This truly is the death penalty.
Probably true but how much negativity can one coach take? Kenny Payne against the world if this season ends with just 2 or 3 wins. I know it's a lot of money but the need to get out of here may be stronger.
Most of us probably think of Payne as wealthy, but he hasn't made the kinda money he's making now. Take a zero off the numbers to bring it closer to home...
You've been earning $100K salary, and someone signs you to a deal making $300K annually for four years. Your new employer's been a freaking disaster, but no one else is offering you that financial opportunity.
Midway through the first year, it becomes obvious you can't do the job. But that's not a condition of your continued employment. So making $100K before, you're weighing whether to work the next three years for a cool million in total, or just walking away with nothing.
Not only would you not do that, no one in your inner circle of friends and advisers would let you. Someone would grab you and slap you for even thinking about it...
You've been earning $100K salary, and someone signs you to a deal making $300K annually for four years. Your new employer's been a freaking disaster, but no one else is offering you that financial opportunity.
Midway through the first year, it becomes obvious you can't do the job. But that's not a condition of your continued employment. So making $100K before, you're weighing whether to work the next three years for a cool million in total, or just walking away with nothing.
Not only would you not do that, no one in your inner circle of friends and advisers would let you. Someone would grab you and slap you for even thinking about it...
No but he might take $1.5 mil a year to walk away and not have to do anything to earn it. He seems like the kind of guy that would be attracted to making money and not having to work for it..
Could be, but I think he'll bank another $3 million next year proving to himself that he can't do it. Maybe he'll walk away from the last 2-3 years of his contract.
This is/was his one big time shot. Doubtful he thinks it's been a fair shot indicative of his "skills." In that scenario, you're expecting or hoping he does this voluntarily...
This is/was his one big time shot. Doubtful he thinks it's been a fair shot indicative of his "skills." In that scenario, you're expecting or hoping he does this voluntarily...
I have no inside information, nor am I one basing my opinion on "hope"; with that said I do believe those responsible for encouraging KP to accept this HC job will be the same who negotiate an arrangement where KP resigns and agrees to assume an Administrative position inside the University, one where he can work with Heird on addressing the weaknesses within the Alumni organization.
Kenny did not lobby on behalf of himself when this opening appeared; he was drafted by those who were well-intentioned but mis-directed ........ they have "skin in this game", as they are Alumni who have invested heavily in this University and understand the consequences associated with the financial aspects, as well as the career concerns for Kenny.
Whether Kenny inherited a no-win situation, or he was ill-equipped to assume the HC job; the existing condition is as most UL fans will agree ....... incredibly unacceptable and must be corrected at the end of this regular season.
Kenny did not lobby on behalf of himself when this opening appeared; he was drafted by those who were well-intentioned but mis-directed ........ they have "skin in this game", as they are Alumni who have invested heavily in this University and understand the consequences associated with the financial aspects, as well as the career concerns for Kenny.
Whether Kenny inherited a no-win situation, or he was ill-equipped to assume the HC job; the existing condition is as most UL fans will agree ....... incredibly unacceptable and must be corrected at the end of this regular season.
I agree with Zipp there is no way Kenny or his supporters are going to punt on this job after 1 year. They knew it was going to be rough. That is probably why he had to be talked into taking it by his supporters.
I still think whomever they hired was going to have major issues. I do think anyone would have handled it better but that doesn’t mean they would have ultimately been the answer. The LSU coach has been mentioned often let’s say he finishes 15-15 but is 3-15 in SEC with multiple 20+ losses. I don’t think any of us would feel great about him either.
We will see how it goes once the season is over.
I still think whomever they hired was going to have major issues. I do think anyone would have handled it better but that doesn’t mean they would have ultimately been the answer. The LSU coach has been mentioned often let’s say he finishes 15-15 but is 3-15 in SEC with multiple 20+ losses. I don’t think any of us would feel great about him either.
We will see how it goes once the season is over.
Last edited:
I agree that it's tough, but for the kind of coin we're talking about here, you can call me an a-hole loser every day, and kick me square in the nads twice a week. Seriously, what skin is it off his nose? He comes to every post game presser, smiles, and answers every question. I'd be happy as a clam as well.
I broke down and tried to watch the game last night after swearing off after a horrendous start to the season. I’ve been a Card fan since Wes Unseld days and can’t remember us ever being this bad. Coach KP is obviously over his head. Hoping for better days ahead when spring football starts.
Huh? Didn't he coach at kaintucky with the great caliputz? Yeah, bring on football.
GO CARDS!!!
I think the hope here is that Payne realizes he doesn't want to do this anymore and agrees to a reduced buyout like Mack realized and did.
I don't have the stomach to watch any more. I have missed watching more games this season, than ever before. I think at this point in time, there is no way that Payne can salvage this mess. In the future I will refer to him as Kenny PAIN!
I also have been going to Louisville games since Wes Unseld was a sophomore. I haven’t watched a game since our loss to Bellarmine that is why you don’t see me posting on game threads.
Mack faced the possibility of being fired with a zero buyout and cut his losses.
There's a chance your scenario with Payne happens, but consider THAT outcome...
We're paying Mack close to $2 million not to coach, so double that with Payne's hypothetical buyout. Then hire another coach for whatever, $4 million. So your head coaching cost--one to coach and two not to--is in the vicinity of $8 million.
There's another $2 million currently in the budget for the 3 assistants, 12 scholarships, etc. So now you're at $10 million in total costs.
The expense budget for this year and last year in men's basketball was $7 million. And last year, the annual report says we made $1.2 million in operating profit in that sport. So your $3 million in added costs will completely wash out operating profits.
Also consider that we only budgeted $0.6 million more in arena related revenues hiring Payne to replace Mack & Pegues. We forget, but some/many people came into this year with optimism.
Anything's possible, but I choose to analyze what's likely. Our dismal state of finances tells me Payne is returning...
Aren’t we pretty much paying him not to coach now?
Yep. The problem is someone has to be in that chair. And 100% of that guy's salary would be additional cost to athletics. We can't afford what we have now...
I’m a little too young for Big Wes. But those were great times…
Last edited:
Lands is a good example of why it is a mistake to put too much emphasis on the rankings. It could be coaching (lack thereof), or it could be the system, or it might be a kid who received exaggerated success because he was taller and more athletic than his HS opponents.
Basketball skill wise is the most difficult game to master. The shooting mechanics has to be really good. Ball handlings skills have to be excellent. Excellent passing skills is under appreciated. Then you have to be an athletically gifted to defend. The speed at which the game moves makes passing, shooting and dribbling very difficult to master. No other sport requires that much skill.
Lands was probably quick and big enough to get where every head needed to go on the court in high school. He could get his shot off over smaller players. He didn’t really need to be good at passing, shooting and dribbling. At this level he has to be great at all the above.
I think he will improve a ton next year. I believe he has a good attitude and willing to learn. It takes time for most guys to adjust to the game. His improvement will be on his own. Coaches get a couple hours with them individually it is up to the player to improve their skills.
Lands was probably quick and big enough to get where every head needed to go on the court in high school. He could get his shot off over smaller players. He didn’t really need to be good at passing, shooting and dribbling. At this level he has to be great at all the above.
I think he will improve a ton next year. I believe he has a good attitude and willing to learn. It takes time for most guys to adjust to the game. His improvement will be on his own. Coaches get a couple hours with them individually it is up to the player to improve their skills.
Payne's buyout is and was hard to understand. Too much dead money on the books now to add another 10 million to it.
I think that is a good point and why we are seeing weird results throughout the country. The team is being recreated every year. It takes time to put it all together. Boy you miss in the portal good luck.
I agree with this. There was a higher than normal probability that Payne was going to be a mistake out of the chute. Everyone knew that.
So the structure of his buyout should have reflected that. It was front end loaded like most buyouts are, and it shouldn't have been...