Which of you are going to buy a Tesla?

[WhiteTailEER]

I didn't realize the extent to which you were entrenched in the environmental religion. Is that accurate though? What about the disposal of the batteries? Are all charging stations powered by solar or are some on another type of grid? I don't know the answers to these questions. How harmful are vehicle emissions these day?

I'm biased towards electric vehicles because of my senior design project, but I've wondered these things also. I wouldn't buy an electric vehicle if I had to charge it from the grid from home ... I'd have the solar panels in place also. Otherwise, I'm not sure how much money you're really saving because what you aren't spending in gas you're spending some or all or more in electric costs.

The disposal of the batteries are certainly an issue ... but is it a net positive or negative when you factor in oil and gas drips from cars, or the larger catastrophes like BP and Valdez? Taking everything in aggregate, I would think the batteries would be better, but I'm not sure.

Regarding emissions, I don't think they are as bad anymore as they used to be from the cars, but you also have to factor in the production of the oil and gasoline ... just as you'd have to factor in increased emissions from power plants for cars being charged from the grid.

I've never seen a thorough analysis of all of those factors.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I own a Tesla. Be glad to answer any questions.
FYI the muscle cars are too slow.

LOL ... just saw an article where Tesla has a software update called "ludicrous" or something, that will allow Model X and Model S cars a 0-60 in 2.41seconds

 

[Airport]

People driving a gas car OUGHT to be paying more tax than people driving an electric gas because gas cars pollute way more, which is a cost society bears.

Idiots who think that there is no cost to produce electric energy should be taxed more.

 

[Airport]

The batteries are expensive, but I would imagine they are less expensive than all the money you would have paid in gas in that same time frame.

My ultimate goal is to have solar panels on the roof of my house and garage, and then get an electric car. Aside from the up-front costs, I'd pay nothing in fuel to drive. I'd be paying less for electric too since the solar panels would be helping with the load on the house. I probably would get an entirely new house for all of that though, my house is nearly 100 years old, I don't think I want to invest all of that into this one.

As long as I'm not asked to subsidize your solar panels, I would cheer you on. Giving you a tax break for buying them and penalizing those of use who like to heat with gas is wrong.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

As long as I'm not asked to subsidize your solar panels, I would cheer you on. Giving you a tax break for buying them and penalizing those of use who like to heat with gas is wrong.

The subsidies will probably be gone by the time I get to it ... so I'll just have my Wall Street friends steal the money directly from your retirement instead.

 

[Airport]

I don't drive enough to buy new cars but some of you do. I've been reading about the Tesla. I didn't know very much about them before. It's pretty awesome. The Model 3 is scheduled to come out this year and they're aiming for a 35 K price point. There is a 7.5 K tax credit for the first so and so many sold. And of course you pay way less for fuel after you buy it.

And you don't pay for oil changes. Know why? Because the car doesn't use oil. I didn't realize just how different electric cars were before looking this stuff up. No pistons, no engine block, no transmission. If you open up the hood you see...nothing. Storage space. So you basically have two trunks, one in the front and one in the back.

The Teslas go over 200 miles on a charge. If you plug it in when you park it in your garage each day then you never need to do anything to get more power unless you drive over 200 miles in a day. And if you do drive over 200 miles, which is likely to be a trip, then there are many recharging stations, all of which are either free or discounted. I didn't realize it but there are a couple thousand Tesla recharging stations for electric cars (each with multiple ports per station) in this country already. All the recharging stations are solar powered. You could literally drive across the country spending zero on fuel and using zero energy other than solar energy.

How in the hell is it that we have these American car companies that have been around forever, Ford and Chrysler and Chevy, and none of them can come up with this stuff? Stale, unchallenged oligarchy. There hasn't been a car company start in this country that has survived long term since 1925 but Tesla is in the process of changing that. Someone needs to buy one and report back.

It is a triumph of private initiative, both in terms of Tesla and in terms of Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, which is in the process of out-competing the Russian and Chinese governments, as well as giant American companies, for launching satellites. How is it that entities like the US government (by contracting out to US companies) and the Russian government have been sending stuff into space forever and then some startup company comes up and starts completely kicking all their asses at it?

I drove with two kids to the bowl game. I'm sure glad that we got 30 mph and could go 400 miles without fueling up. What a **** trip it would have been to stop every 200 miles to charge for 30 mins to go another 200 miles to recharge again. It would ahve added nearly 1.5 hrs to the trip in fueling.

 

[Airport]

The subsidies will probably be gone by the time I get to it ... so I'll just have my Wall Street friends steal the money directly from your retirement instead.

The govt has been stealing for as long as wall street.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

I drove with two kids to the bowl game. I'm sure glad that we got 30 mph and could go 400 miles without fueling up. What a **** trip it would have been to stop every 200 miles to charge for 30 mins to go another 200 miles to recharge again. It would ahve added nearly 1.5 hrs to the trip in fueling.

We get it already. You're pissed.

 

[Airport]

The subsidies will probably be gone by the time I get to it ... so I'll just have my Wall Street friends steal the money directly from your retirement instead.

It is my money and you are not entitled to it to subsidize something that may not be competitive with other forms of energy but you should be free to spend your money the way you want.

 

[Airport]

We get it already. You're pissed.

I'm not pissed, I could not car less what you buy, just buy it with your own money and not get a tax break for buying something. Please, Elon Musk needs to eat

 

[Airport]

We get it already. You're pissed.

Let's turn this around, Pres Big oil gets elected, he gets a tax credit passed that gives the owner a big tax break for switching his electric hear pump to forced gas heat, which is much more expensive than electric heat. Would you, a person who gets nothing for having energy efficient electric heat, be alright with that?

 

[op2]

As long as I'm not asked to subsidize your solar panels, I would cheer you on. Giving you a tax break for buying them and penalizing those of use who like to heat with gas is wrong.

LOL...your energy is already being subsidized like crazy but you're worry about solar being subsidized? That's a good one. How many hundreds of billions of dollars are spent directly and indirectly each year keeping the oil flowing from the Middle East (who then takes the money and uses it to spread Islamic fundamentalism around the world)? But if we subsidize a few solar companies and electric car companies it's a bad thing? Laughable. History isn't going to be kind to such views.

 

[Airport]

People driving a gas car OUGHT to be paying more tax than people driving an electric gas because gas cars pollute way more, which is a cost society bears.

Electric cars use the road the same as a gas car so the tax should be equal. Air pollution has nothing to do with it.

 

[op2]

I'm not pissed, I could not car less what you buy, just buy it with your own money and not get a tax break for buying something. Please, Elon Musk needs to eat

Except you only apply that standard when it suits your needs.

 

[Airport]

LOL...your energy is already being subsidized like crazy but you're worry about solar being subsidized? That's a good one. How many hundreds of billions of dollars are spent directly and indirectly each year keeping the oil flowing from the Middle East (who then takes the money and uses it to spread Islamic fundamentalism around the world)? But if we subsidize a few solar companies and electric car companies it's a bad thing? Laughable. History isn't going to be kind to such views.

Solyndra, A1 batteries. Every hear of them. For someone who started off asking a question, you must be wVmade's alter ego. 550 mill to Solyndra was not a little

 

[op2]

Electric cars use the road the same as a gas car so the tax should be equal. Air pollution has nothing to do with it.

Okay then, we'll tax electric cars the same to be on the roads but then add an extra tax for gas car owners to cope with the air pollution. Fair?

 

[Airport]

Except you only apply that standard when it suits your needs.

No I don't and if you knew my position on here, it's I think everybody should stand on their own two feet. No tax breaks for anybody. It's an ideal that can't be reached.

 

[atlkvb]

They have superchargers across the country, mostly on major highways for long trip convenience. It takes 30 minutes to charge 170 miles. If you bought your Tesla before Jan 1, 2017 then it's always free but if you buy it after Jan 1, 2017 you only get enough for 1,000 miles each year and after that you have to pay something. But 1,000 miles is probably all people use for trips each year anyway. Here is the current supercharger map.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
Then there is are the destination superchargers. These are superchargers that you can't just drive up and use but rather are at business (hotels, restaurants, shopping centers, etc) and you have to be frequenting the business to use them. Here is a map of them.

https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging
Yeah, stuff probably breaks after awhile, as with any machine. You have to take you gasoline car in for maintenance too. There are 200 parts in an internal combustion engine while an electric car engine has 10. Part of the reason the status quo car industry folks don't like electrics is because taking your car in for maintenance every six months is a big business.

However many superchargers there are now there are only going to be more in the future. The same goes for destination superchargers. The 200 mile range (and I saw some number larger than that but didn't want to fudge) is only going to go up. It's only going to get better, unlike gas cars that are a mature technology.

I don't know about the destination superchargers, but the regular superchargers are solar powered. So you're using solar energy to re-charge your car batteries. The giant battery plant they're making in Nevada is either totally solar powered or almost totally solar powered. If it's not completely solar powered the rest of the power will be renewable energy.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/11/14231952/tesla-gigafactory-solar-rooftop-70-megawatt

Tesla certainly is an exciting, innovative, and promising concept for automotive manufacturers and consumers at both the manufacturing and retail level. I work in the Automotive industry so I'm familiar with much of their marketing and sales strategies.

There are some impediments however:

Battery performance technology while improved, is still far exceeded by gasoline powered engines, many of which get up to 40 miles per gallon or more in some cases.

The preferred vehicle of choice for today's consumers is multi-passenger cross over SUV's, which are heavier and require much more horsepower and torque to adequately carry passenger payloads. Current battery technology is incapable of achieving those torque and payload capacities.

Without a dealer network, legacy supply chain or distribution network for replacement parts, accessories, or routine maintenance, it will be difficult to maintain adequate service delivery records on the Tesla vehicles or requisition parts, or obtain competent service technicians adequately trained and equipped to keep the vehicles running or perform maintenance repairs.

Without scheduled service intervals and maintenance records, residual values of the vehicles will be difficult if not nearly impossible to verify, thus reducing their long term resale and/or investment values. It will also make it extremely expensive or at the very least difficult to obtain insurance replacement policies, additionally aftermarket sales of pre-owned vehicles will likewise be difficult to negotiate or evaluate since no Dealers will have reliable, verifiable, or accurate data with which to base trades involving the vehicle.

Finally, the vehicle's novelty is likely to fade as promising hybrid technologies--which combine features of both electric and gasoline engines more efficiently at lower overall operating expense, with greater performance along with existing parts, service and Dealership networks--are expected to grow even more popular as these types of alternative vehicles are further integrated into major automotive manufacturer's product lineups.


Tesla is going to find a niche market because it is such a novelty, but I wouldn't be rushing out to invest several thousands of dollars into one right now because it's an investment you may not see much of a long term return on.

 

[Airport]

Okay then, we'll tax electric cars the same to be on the roads but then add an extra tax for gas car owners to cope with the air pollution. Fair?

Air pollution, you must be a tree hugger. Go buy what you want, just don't ask me to subsidize it.

 

[op2]

No I don't and if you knew my position on here, it's I think everybody should stand on their own two feet. No tax breaks for anybody. It's an ideal that can't be reached.

I'm all in favor of no subsidizes at all and everybody pay their way including the costs they impose on the environment. I don't think the gas car producers are in favor of that though.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Let's turn this around, Pres Big oil gets elected, he gets a tax credit passed that gives the owner a big tax break for switching his electric hear pump to forced gas heat, which is much more expensive than electric heat. Would you, a person who gets nothing for having energy efficient electric heat, be alright with that?

Big Oil already gets huge subsidies. You knew that didn't you?

 

[op2]

I own a Tesla. Be glad to answer any questions.
FYI the muscle cars are too slow.

If you really own a Tesla just tell us what it's like.

 

[Airport]

I'm all in favor of no subsidizes at all and everybody pay their way including the costs they impose on the environment. I don't think the gas car producers are in favor of that though.

People who think that producing electricity doesn't impact the environment need to go back and finish grade school. 95% of the electric power in Ohio is produced by coal.

 

[Airport]

Big Oil already gets huge subsidies. You knew that didn't you?

We should eliminate them and you know I have said this all along. They can make a profit with a fair tax system. There is no need to give them depletion allowances.

 

[bornaneer]

LOL ... just saw an article where Tesla has a software update called "ludicrous" or something, that will allow Model X and Model S cars a 0-60 in 2.41seconds

What is practical about 0-60 in 2.41seconds? The only place that I've been where it might be helpful is downtown Rome Italy. But I will say...A Tesla would be a very nice toy.

 

[op2]

People who think that producing electricity doesn't impact the environment need to go back and finish grade school. 95% of the electric power in Ohio is produced by coal.

The percentage of electricity produced by coal in the US is waning (despite the fact that coal is effectively subsudized by not having to pay the full cost of its pollution, which ought to upset you). That said, since electric cars are more efficient with the energy they do use it's not clear to me if an electric car powered by coal is worse than a gas car anyway.

 

[Airport]

What is practical about 0-60 in 2.41seconds? The only place that I've been where it might be helpful is downtown Rome Italy.

I would believe it when we could see it. I really don't believe that that is achievable.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

95% of the electric power in Ohio is produced by coal.

Liar!!!!!!

Try 59%. Man, you just argue whatever you feel like arguing at the time. Facts be damned. Life is tough on you, staying pissed all the time and realizing the facts really aren't what you want them to be.

"
How does Ohio generate electricity?
October 17, 2016
In Ohio, electricity is mainly generated using resources like coal, natural gas and nuclear. While these resources are found naturally in the earth and produce large amounts of electricity, nonrenewable resources take a long time to form, and there is a limited supply available for people to use for power generation.

Renewable resources including hydropower, wind, biomass and solar energy are also used to produce electricity, but often on a smaller scale. These resources are readily available in nature and can be replenished relatively quickly.

The PUCO aims to ensure a mix of electric supplies and to give consumers choices by encouraging a diverse mix of generation resources. Below are brief descriptions of the generation resources currently used in Ohio.

Coal, a nonrenewable fossil fuel, is used to generate approximately 59 percent of the electricity in Ohio. Coal is burned to produce heat, which converts water into high-pressure steam. The steam turns the blades of a turbine that is connected to a generator. The generator spins and converts mechanical energy to electricity.

Natural gas, a nonrenewable fossil fuel, can either be burned to produce steam or to produce hot combustion gas that passes through the turbine blades. Approximately 23 percent of the electricity in Ohio is produced using natural gas.

Petroleum, a nonrenewable fossil fuel, is burned to create steam to turn the turbine blades. The most common form of petroleum used to make electricity is fuel oil, a type of oil that is refined from crude oil. Petroleum generates approximately 1 percent of Ohio electricity.

Nuclear power involves a process called fission in which the atoms of the element uranium split, releasing heat to turn water into steam and rotate the turbine blades. Nuclear power is nonrenewable and is used to generate about 14 percent of Ohio electricity.

In hydropower generation, flowing water is used to spin the turbine connected to the generator. Hydropower plants can use the current from a river or falling water that has accumulated in a dam to create the force needed to turn the turbine blades. Hydropower and the other renewable resources described below currently account for about 2.3 percent of electric generation in Ohio."

 

[Airport]

The percentage of electricity produced by coal in the US is waning (despite the fact that coal is effectively subsudized by not having to pay the full cost of its pollution, which ought to upset you). That said, since electric cars are more efficient with the energy they do use it's not clear to me if an electric car powered by coal is worse than a gas car anyway.

I beleive that San Francisco is calling you. You would be very happy there in the land of fruits and nuts.

 

[op2]

I beleive that San Francisco is calling you. You would be very happy there in the land of fruits and nuts.

News Flash: It's 2017. The days of electric cars and solar power being pipe dreams for decades down the road are past. Technology is advancing.

 

[Airport]

Liar!!!!!!

Try 59%. Man, you just argue whatever you feel like arguing at the time. Facts be damned. Life is tough on you, staying pissed all the time and realizing the facts really aren't what you want them to be.

"
How does Ohio generate electricity?
October 17, 2016
In Ohio, electricity is mainly generated using resources like coal, natural gas and nuclear. While these resources are found naturally in the earth and produce large amounts of electricity, nonrenewable resources take a long time to form, and there is a limited supply available for people to use for power generation.

Renewable resources including hydropower, wind, biomass and solar energy are also used to produce electricity, but often on a smaller scale. These resources are readily available in nature and can be replenished relatively quickly.

The PUCO aims to ensure a mix of electric supplies and to give consumers choices by encouraging a diverse mix of generation resources. Below are brief descriptions of the generation resources currently used in Ohio.

Coal, a nonrenewable fossil fuel, is used to generate approximately 59 percent of the electricity in Ohio. Coal is burned to produce heat, which converts water into high-pressure steam. The steam turns the blades of a turbine that is connected to a generator. The generator spins and converts mechanical energy to electricity.

Natural gas, a nonrenewable fossil fuel, can either be burned to produce steam or to produce hot combustion gas that passes through the turbine blades. Approximately 23 percent of the electricity in Ohio is produced using natural gas.

Petroleum, a nonrenewable fossil fuel, is burned to create steam to turn the turbine blades. The most common form of petroleum used to make electricity is fuel oil, a type of oil that is refined from crude oil. Petroleum generates approximately 1 percent of Ohio electricity.

Nuclear power involves a process called fission in which the atoms of the element uranium split, releasing heat to turn water into steam and rotate the turbine blades. Nuclear power is nonrenewable and is used to generate about 14 percent of Ohio electricity.

In hydropower generation, flowing water is used to spin the turbine connected to the generator. Hydropower plants can use the current from a river or falling water that has accumulated in a dam to create the force needed to turn the turbine blades. Hydropower and the other renewable resources described below currently account for about 2.3 percent of electric generation in Ohio."

I was using a figure that was put out during the election, for that I was wrong, however, OP2, would have a problem with all those modes of energy producing since each creates pollution.

 

[bornaneer]

Be an hour stop every 200 miles...compared to an average 30 min stop every 200 miles with gas. That's 30 minutes per 200 miles. It is 2,787 miles from LA to NYC. That's 14 stops. 7 hours added to trip.

How many of us only go 200 miles on a tank of gas and I doubt you spend 30 minutes filling up.

 

[Airport]

News Flash: It's 2017. The days of electric cars and solar power being pipe dreams for decades down the road are past. Technology is advancing.

News flash, fruits and nuts are calling you. Please go buy one, just don't ask me to subsidize you purchase.

 

[op2]

I was using a figure that was put out during the election, for that I was wrong, however, OP2, would have a problem with all those modes of energy producing since each creates pollution.

That's a misrepresentation. Improvement is improvement and standing in the way and complaining about it is just going to make you look like a curmudgeon in the long run.

 

[Airport]

How many of us only go 200 miles on a tank of gas and I doubt you spend 30 minutes filling up.

Op2 woud take a full two weeks to get to his San Francisco heaven stopping every 200 miles.

 

[bornaneer]

News Flash: It's 2017. The days of electric cars and solar power being pipe dreams for decades down the road are past. Technology is advancing.

LMAO .......Who ever said electric cars and solar power are pipe dreams? How old are you?

 

[atlkvb]

The percentage of electricity produced by coal in the US is waning (despite the fact that coal is effectively subsudized by not having to pay the full cost of its pollution, which ought to upset you). That said, since electric cars are more efficient with the energy they do use it's not clear to me if an electric car powered by coal is worse than a gas car anyway.

If we can increase our domestic oil production by just 20-to-35%, we could see prices for a gallon of gasoline at or near 1.00 a gallon! No joke. We can virtually eliminate the need to import any of our needed supplies, and the increase in domestic supplies would not only make us energy independent, but also dramatically reduce retail prices for all goods and services as energy costs subside. Modern vehicles will continue to be even more fuel efficient and as long as demand for gasoline remains stable relative to supply, we should have no problem keeping fuel prices low with increased domestic oil production.

 

[Airport]

That's a misrepresentation. Improvement is improvement and standing in the way and complaining about it is just going to make you look like a curmudgeon in the long run.

No it's not, you cannot produce energy without pollution of some sorts. Everything that is made, produces some wastes. You have to get rid of by products that are produced during manufacture. There is nothing that ha ever been made that doesn't produce waste.

 

[op2]

How many of us only go 200 miles on a tank of gas and I doubt you spend 30 minutes filling up.

"on a tank of gas" isn't the point, rather "200 miles without stopping" is. That's because if you're plugging it in in your garage each night then you never start a day with it having less than 200 miles on it.

It's 200 (or somewhat above perhaps) now but of course it'll go up over time. You could fill up at a supercharger in 90 seconds via a battery swap but it'll cost you $60-80 when they get it set up. But of course, if your car gets 20 mpg and you want 12 gallons to go 240 miles and if gas is $3-4 per gallon then you pay $36-48 and it takes 5-10 minutes instead of 2.

 

[Airport]

That's a misrepresentation. Improvement is improvement and standing in the way and complaining about it is just going to make you look like a curmudgeon in the long run.

I do not stand in the way of technology, in fact, technology will solve any problem. The problem with liberals, they think that there is a problem with the internal combustion engine and has to be subsidized by govt to figure out a way to make it obsolete. When we run out of cheap forms of energy, technology will figure out how to use other forms only when they become economical. Look at your cell phone, how much technology has gone into it in the last 10 years because there is real profits to be made there. Let Musk do his thing, just don't take my tax dollars to subsidize it.