Who built the middle class and how?

atlkvb

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doesn't ok the possession of a missle system in my back yard.

What if that were the best way to protect the Country boomer? I know it's an extreme example but so is your analogy. "Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. We can agree to how that should be implemented, but no where do I read that to mean taking away anyone's right to keep arms which is all the Left is after in my opinion. If fidelity to what it actually says is our common reference point, all gun restrictions are unconstitutional. I think we've "interpreted" that enough wouldn't you agree?
 

Boomboom521

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Honestly boomer I do understand your example here, but I don't see that to mean anything less or more than what it says. Sure that can vary from era to era, but that "right" also shall not be infringed.

"Shall not be infringed" is not open to interpretation in my opinion. It means whatever it has to mean by that right not being "infringed".
So, I can purchase an outdated scud Missle system? No. Am I free to sell other people's creations as my own? Can I $&@% my wife on my front lawn? Can I punish my neighbors child? Rights are always subject to conditions....seeing it any different is a lie.
 

atlkvb

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Sure you do, because how you read it is always right.
And look back at my posts in this thread. "Without allowing business The freedom to innovate, expand and produce none of it would have been possible in the first place".....you get so full of anger and frustration against the left that you don't see clearly. You need to deal with that.

And....the US Constitution IS a social contract. It is a contract that allows us mobility and voice in shaping the direction and capacity of our government. Your no better because you abhor the left, and your no more anti-leviathan than you are anti-American. You cherish powerful government is foreign affairs and social "ills", but condemn it in business.

Nope wrong again boomer my man. but just as you deflect and defer when you are cornered with a question you refuse to answer or deal with on point (like our discussion on thermodynamics) you add things into what I'm saying that I haven't said.

I have not argued that the Constitution is a "social contract". That's what YOU think it is or at least in my opinion how you think it should be read. The Constitution is a Governing contract...which by definition limits the Government. You do not favor those limits over it, and that's fine...but to those of us who do favor limiting it you have nothing but contempt for.

Yet when we point out its failures, or shortcomings (Leviathan) or insist on reducing its operations to Constitutionally proscribed limits, we are labeled by you folks on the Left as being "full of anger".

I love and respect the Constitution because I believe it keeps us Free, and protects us from the natural ravages of Leviathan. Leviathan operates in Communist China, North Korea, Cuba, Argentina, or any other place where Statists have complete control over the people who have no weapons or means to fight back or for their Freedom.

I'm glad we have our our weapons guaranteed by our Constitution as much as you folks on the Left are trying to "interpret" those rights away...and the main reason I'm glad we still have those weapons is because we can and will use them to shoot back if you Leftist Statists ever try to finally take them away from us.
 
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atlkvb

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So, I can purchase an outdated scud Missle system? No. Am I free to sell other people's creations as my own? Can I $&@% my wife on my front lawn? Can I punish my neighbors child? Rights are always subject to conditions....seeing it any different is a lie.

You can live within the Law boomer, you can live a deviant Life if you want, you can even own whatever weapon system suits you so long as you don't threaten social stability or legal ruling authority (then you'd be a subversive). But you must first respect the rights of others. Yes all rights are limited because we are not a nation without Laws. Laws are limits placed on our individual Freedom to protect Freedom and safety and in many cases morality for all. When you violate those, you will be prosecuted.
 
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Boomboom521

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What if that were the best way to protect the Country boomer? I know it's an extreme example but so is your analogy. "Shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. We can agree to how that should be implemented, but no where do I read that to mean taking away anyone's right to keep arms which is all the Left is after in my opinion. If fidelity to what it actually says is our common reference point, all gun restrictions are unconstitutional. I think we've "interpreted" that enough wouldn't you agree?
I love how all other parts of the admendment are dropped though.
Nope wrong again boomer my man. but just as you deflect and defer when you are cornered with a question you refuse to answer or deal with on point (like our discussion on thermodynamics) you add things into what I'm saying that I haven't said.

I have not argued that the Constitution is "social contract". That's what YOU think it is or at least how it should be read. The Constitution is a Governing contract...which by definition limits the Government. You do not favor those limits over it, and that's fine...but to those of us who do favor limiting it you have nothing but contempt for.

Yet when we point out its failures, or shortcomings (Leviathan) or insist on reducing its operations to Constitutionally proscribed limits, we are labeled by you folks on the Left as being "full of anger".

I love and respect the Constitution because I believe it keeps us Free, and protects us from the natural ravaged of Leviathan. Leviathan operates in Communist China, North Korea, Cuba, Argentina, or any other place where Statists have complete control over the people who have no weapons or means to fight them back or for their Freedom.

I'm glad we have our our weapons guaranteed by our Constitution as much as you folks on the Left are trying to "interpret" those rights away...and the main reason I'm glad we still have those weapons is because we can and will use them to shoot back if you Leftist Statists ever try to finally take them away from us.
We - You, Us - Them, if anyone on here should know nderstand the dangers of such blind grouping it is you.
 

atlkvb

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I love how all other parts of the admendment are dropped though.

We - You, Us - Them, if anyone on here should know nderstand the dangers of such blind grouping it is you.

We are self governing boomer my friend, so yes "we" "us" "our" all means the same thing in my vernacular.
 

Boomboom521

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You can live within the Law boomer, you can live a deviant Life if you want, you can even own whatever weapon system suits you so long as you don't threaten social stability or legal ruling authority (then you'd be a subversive). But you must first respect the rights of others. Yes all rights are limited because we are not a nation without Laws. Laws are limits placed on our individual Freedom to protect Freedom and safety and in many cases morality for all. When you violate those, you will be prosecuted.
Your laws makes sense and the left's laws want to "take away freedom" then?
 

atlkvb

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Your laws makes sense and the left's laws want to "take away freedom" then?

No boomer, I'm saying we have Laws, and we are a nation of Laws that exist to protect individual Freedom and Liberty for all. We're not an anarchy, or a people governed by Men. We are a representative republic under a nation with a Constitutional form of Government that allows Laws to govern our individual behavior.

The Constitution sets those limits on the Government's control over us, and we make the Laws to limit our controls over each other. It works best when we share common morality, and work towards common goals and I do agree with you we need more of that. But where do we find common ground to work together when folks like you don't trust the people, and folks like me don't trust the Government?

Seems to me we have a failure to communicate here.
 

Boomboom521

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We are self governing boomer my friend, so yes "we" "us" "our" all means the same thing in my vernacular.
No it doesn't. You're speaking in terms of left and right --- I should say wrong and right. It's the exact reason everyone on the right is vilified as a racist....it's the wrong approach. I would have voted for Rubio (probably) against Clinton. I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 (although I think I was wrong for that). But lump me in with people on the left that want to take away your guns and prevent someone as intelligent and experienced as Condolezza Rice from speaking at a college campus. You do that because it makes your narrative about what's wrong with the nation make sense. I'm on here trying to understand the thinking of people that don't think like me....is that what you're doing? Really?

And I answered you on thermodynamics! If you don't accept my response that quantum theory reaches a space that prevents its application (or any other applications of science) then fine, but don't accuse me of deflecting. that's ********! The laws of thermodynamics are dependent upon a closed system---I reject the premise when discussing the extent and creation of true existence of the universe
 

Boomboom521

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No boomer, I'm saying we have Laws, and we are a nation of Laws that exist to protect individual Freedom and Liberty for all. We're not an anarchy, or a people governed by Men. We are a representative republic under a nation with a Constitutional form of Government that allows Laws to govern our individual behavior.

The Constitution sets those limits on the Government's control over us, and we make the Laws to limit our controls over each other. It works best when we share common morality, and work towards common goals and I do agree with you we need more of that. But where do we find common ground to work together when folks like you don't trust the people, and folks like me don't trust the Government?

Seems to me we have a failure to communicate here.
Oh we do....I say I don't trust business to do what's best for the greater good.....you say "but it's people that run business"....but people do not run government? Laws, rights, morality, freedom are all RIGHT when it's YOUR morality or desires or principles that create or interpret them.

It just proves that the anger and frustration in our political climate overshadows our American spirit in many cases.
 

atlkvb

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Oh we do....I say I don't trust business to do what's best for the greater good.....you say "but it's people that run business"....but people do not run government? Laws, rights, morality, freedom are all RIGHT when it's YOUR morality or desires or principles that create or interpret them.

It just proves that the anger and frustration in our political climate overshadows our American spirit in many cases.

Yes we agree boomer and we agree to disagree. Your inherent mistrust of business is irrational to me because businesses as I've explained are simply a collection of people. Government on the other hand in my opinion as it currently functions is not so much a collection of "the people" as much as it is a collection of ruling elites who have used their power over us to keep themselves in power and purchase our favors to maintain their control over our Freedom.

I believe this is why the Founders were against a "ruling class" because they knew that in Man's unfettered state left without controls or limits on his behavior, he would use the power of Government to subjugate the citizenry. In all of world History before us (exception Israel) this has been Man's common plight under ruling Government. Power corrupting, and absolute power corrupting absolutely.

So the Founders stated quite clearly that there is an authority even above our Government that we owe our Freedom to, they gave us limited Government to protect that Freedom, and we use Laws under that limited Government to protect our individual Liberty.

The founders distrusted the nature of Man, so they gave us limited Government as a hedge against it. I too understand the nature of Man, but I see morality and limited Government as a protection against that nature, and I believe as long as we stay within the moral constraints that Free people must operate under in order to keep ourselves away from anarchy, I believe we can live successfully, peacefully, and in Freedom with respect for all of our rights with deference to the morality that protects our God given Freedoms from tyrannical Government (Leviathan)

That's what we get without that Constitution or morality for our limited self Government.
 
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atlkvb

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But lump me in with people on the left that want to take away your guns and prevent someone as intelligent and experienced as Condolezza Rice from speaking at a college campus. You do that because it makes your narrative about what's wrong with the nation make sense.


No boomer, that's just what happens on the Left. They do not tolerate dissent, nor do they respect differences of opinion. Why am I a "racist" simply because I'm black and vote for limited Government?

Or an "Uncle Tom" or a "Bigot"? Shelby Steele, Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza...whenever someone Black escapes the "liberation plantation" philosophy and attempts to act on their own or refuses to see their hope in Government programs, they are ostracized by the Left.

If you're refusing to admit that, then I'm not the one trying to dictate how people should behave based on what they believe.
 

atlkvb

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And I answered you on thermodynamics!


No you didn't boomer. You said "it can't be known". You said there are some concepts we can't understand which is true. However I pointed out to you what Science does understand about it particularly in its operational construction vs Evolution and I asked you to explain their observable contradictory differences.

There is a fundamental assumption between both which I wanted you to explain for me. You never did.

You just said "it can't be known"..which was a total dodge of the essential point I was bringing up by their comparison.
 

WVMade

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All of the polarizing social commentary aside, two parties have two very different approaches to expanding the middle class. I'm interested in learning how many on here think we established a middle class initially.
Henry Ford started the middle class by doing the exact opposite of what a Republican today would do. Every problem we have in the U.S. has been solved at least once in our history but people (Repubs) are too thick skulled to know their own history.

Labor philosophy
The five-dollar wage


Time magazine, January 14, 1935
Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism", designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots. Efficiency meant hiring and keeping the best workers.[21]

Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($120 today), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers.[22] A Cleveland, Ohio, newspaper editorialized that the announcement "shot like a blinding rocket through the dark clouds of the present industrial depression."[23] The move proved extremely profitable; instead of constant turnover of employees, the best mechanics in Detroit flocked to Ford, bringing their human capital and expertise, raising productivity, and lowering training costs.[24][25] Ford announced his $5-per-day program on January 5, 1914, raising the minimum daily pay from $2.34 to $5 for qualifying male workers.

Detroit was already a high-wage city, but competitors were forced to raise wages or lose their best workers.[26] Ford's policy proved, however, that paying people more would enable Ford workers to afford the cars they were producing and be good for the local economy. He viewed the increased wages as profit-sharing linked with rewarding those who were most productive and of good character.[27] It may have been Couzens who convinced Ford to adopt the $5-day.[28]

The profit-sharing was offered to employees who had worked at the company for six months or more, and, importantly, conducted their lives in a manner of which Ford's "Social Department" approved. They frowned on heavy drinking, gambling, and (what today are called) deadbeat dads. The Social Department used 50 investigators, plus support staff, to maintain employee standards; a large percentage of workers were able to qualify for this "profit-sharing."

Ford's incursion into his employees' private lives was highly controversial, and he soon backed off from the most intrusive aspects. By the time he wrote his 1922 memoir, he spoke of the Social Department and of the private conditions for profit-sharing in the past tense, and admitted that "paternalism has no place in industry. Welfare work that consists in prying into employees' private concerns is out of date. Men need counsel and men need help, often special help; and all this ought to be rendered for decency's sake. But the broad workable plan of investment and participation will do more to solidify industry and strengthen organization than will any social work on the outside. Without changing the principle we have changed the method of payment."[29]
 

Boomboom521

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No you didn't boomer. You said "it can't be known". You said there are some concepts we can't understand which is true. However I pointed out to you what Science does understand about it particularly in its operational construction vs Evolution and I asked you to explain their observable contradictory differences.

There is a fundamental assumption between both which I wanted you to explain for me. You never did.

You just said "it can't be known"..which was a total dodge of the essential point I was bringing up by their comparison.
Once again....the laws of science that explain HOW something works are being used to describe WHY a system exists! The laws of thermodynamics are dependent upon a closed system!!!! Of which, once we begin to look beyond our universe as a CLOSED SYSTEM, these laws no longer apply. In addition, there are no scientific principles that apply to the understanding of the universe as an open system of existence.
 

atlkvb

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he laws of science that explain HOW something works are being used to describe WHY a system exists!


You can't understand the "how" until you understand the "why" boomer. Evolution is presented to explain how we became human...it is also offered as a why but it can't explain design or origin. (no transitional forms in fossil records) Creationism explains "how" we got here (which of course you reject) and the "why" is explained through Scientific discovery, like the second law of thermodynamics.

Both of which you reject.(the how and why)
 

Boomboom521

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You can't understand the "how" until you understand the "why" boomer. Evolution is presented to explain how we became human...it is also offered as a why but it can't explain design or origin. (no transitional forms in fossil records) Creationism explains "how" we got here (which of course you reject) and the "why" is explained through Scientific discovery, like the second law of thermodynamics.

Both of which you reject.(the how and why)
How our system works is explained by science. Including evolution, which explains my human mind and body the form my energy has taken. Science also attempts to explain how CLOSED systems of energy work in relation to environmental factors. Science makes NO ATTEMPT to address the why we are here, or any attempt at explaining anything (even in theory) outside of our closed system. I reject your ******** argument that uses science to attribute characteristics to a system NEVER COVERED BY SCIENTIFIC THEORY, which is the universe as an open system - creation as an open system - of which we have never or can never observe the properties. Science is dependent upon observation. Creationism, WHICH I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO TAKE AWAY FROM YOU, is dependent upon the use of a literary text to explain everything outside of the closed system of the universe. It also does not subscribe to the observed concepts of scientific proof or theory. The only possible atmosphere that creationism exists is independent of scientific theory.
 

atlkvb

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I reject your ******** argument that uses science to attribute characteristics to a system NEVER COVERED BY SCIENTIFIC THEORY

Thermodynamics is not BS boomer. It is observable Science, and pokes Evolution's chief "theory" right in it's Atheistic eye.
 

Boomboom521

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Thermodynamics is not BS boomer. It is observable Science, and pokes Evolution's chief "theory" right in it's Atheistic eye.
Such ********! Evolution is not existing in a closed system. It has external forces that apply....an organisms environment. The environment is what creates the evolutional change. Your incorrect application of entrophy DOES NOT APPLY. The complexity of organisms rise due to the elements of environment which lay OUTSIDE the CLOSED system of the organism.

Similar to our discussion of the creation of existence. I reject your premise that the universe must adhere to the principles of thermodynamics because I accept the presence of an OPEN SYSTEM (the properties of which are unable to be observed in a scientific premise). Those properties, as I said, exist in being moved by a sunset or art or love, but cannot be measured or even effectively observed. Therefore science cannot apply theory to explain.

You are dumbing down science to fit your comfy little mind. I am no scientist, and I can tell you your application is invalid. Stick to your faith and stop trying to use that FAITH to counter science. It's foolish.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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How much wealth would have been passed from one generation to the next if parent's retirement and medical costs had to be covered by their children. Insurance, safety, 401k Matches, weekends, holidays, wages that can support college tuition for children....all thanks to union efforts. You trust business WAY TOO MUCH. You either own a business, owned one at some point, or are just so entrenched in your hatred for the left that you don't see the facts. Maybe business would have gotten there on its own....I don't think so....but thanks to unions, we didn't need them to.

I reiterate that we are in a new era in which many of these effective initiatives are facing a point of critical adaptation. Without a change in the structure of social security and unions...they will continue to be counterproductive. But to act as if they didn't serve a positive purpose in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and even into the 80's and 90's is incorrect.
I think most people agree they had a place in society. Like any institution who gains too much power, their purpose becomes holding on to it or expanding the power to the point of gross corruption. They've outlived their purpose to the point of being counterproductive to an adaptive marketplace.
 

Boomboom521

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I think most people agree they had a place in society. Like any institution who gains too much power, their purpose becomes holding on to it or expanding the power to the point of gross corruption. They've outlived their purpose to the point of being counterproductive to an adaptive marketplace.
I agree, and I conceded that point. Onto the adaptation of unions and social security, but doing so with the misconception that it was all bad (which many have in this polarized environment) causes us to lose knowledge that history helped us gain.

I was hoping to find common ground in the historical question of the thread (who built the middle class and how) because there were so many occurrences that built it that both liberal and conservative ideology subscribe to fundamentally. An exercise in appreciating the complexity, compromise and balance that encompasses America.

Yet....I ended up arguing if the laws of thermodynamics destroy the theory of evolution and prove that creationist Christian ideology is truth. Go figure.
 

atlkvb

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Wrong. You can't even cite which law and that law has been inappropriately applied to evolution and adaptation.

OK countryroads89. Let's hear your explanation of Entropy's scientific principle as it's revealed in the Second law of Thermodynamics?

Explain it.
 

atlkvb

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I agree, and I conceded that point. Onto the adaptation of unions and social security, but doing so with the misconception that it was all bad (which many have in this polarized environment) causes us to lose knowledge that history helped us gain.

I was hoping to find common ground in the historical question of the thread (who built the middle class and how) because there were so many occurrences that built it that both liberal and conservative ideology subscribe to fundamentally. An exercise in appreciating the complexity, compromise and balance that encompasses America.

Yet....I ended up arguing if the laws of thermodynamics destroy the theory of evolution and prove that creationist Christian ideology is truth. Go figure.

There isn't one Liberal program you pointed to boomboom521 in that entire thread that proved either creation of or expansion of the middle class. I gave you several examples of entrepreneurship that had far more impact and you dismissed all of them in favor of the WPA, the New Deal, and Social Security. All of which when reviewed decades after their initial creation have been nothing but abject failures both in their intent and execution no matter which way you choose to measure them.

Everything else that happened in that thread boom was a result of your insistence of my "intolerance" or strict adherence to only that which sits on the right.

Yet I've never heard you admit, in any discussion over the many you and I have shared, that Big Government income redistribution from the Left never works, doesn't work, and always fails. NEVER heard you admit to that.
 

Boomboom521

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There isn't one Liberal program you pointed to boomboom521 in that entire thread that proved either creation of or expansion of the middle class. I gave you several examples of entrepreneurship that had far more impact and you dismissed all of them in favor of the WPA, the New Deal, and Social Security. All of which when reviewed decades after their initial creation have been nothing but abject failures both in their intent and execution no matter which way you choose to measure them.

Everything else that happened in that thread boom was a result of your insistence of my "intolerance" or strict adherence to only that which sits on the right.

Yet I've never heard you admit, in any discussion over the many you and I have shared, that Big Government income redistribution from the Left never works, doesn't work, and always fails. NEVER heard you admit to that.
You're ********! For a devout Christian....you have wayyyy tooooo much anger and resentment.

You want me to admit that the left never works when I just described to you multiple initiatives that worked (in the past). The entire thread (for me) was about pointing to the balance. By the way - left DOESNT MEAN COMMUNIST OR SOCIALIST! But if you'd like examples of how socialism works, look at Europe (they got problems, so do we). Or...wait a minute...you can just look to the United States of America, because if you think there are NOT socialist components already at work in outlets society you're fooling yourself.
 
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OK countryroads89. Let's hear your explanation of Entropy's scientific principle as it's revealed in the Second law of Thermodynamics?

Explain it.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system always increases over time, or remains constant in ideal cases where the system is in a steady state or undergoing a reversible process. The increase in entropy accounts for the irreversibility of natural processes, and the asymmetry between future and past.

The second law deals with an ISOLATED SYSTEM. That's why it is inappropriately applied.

And the theory of evolution only speculated that evolution occurred in one direction and never postulated that it is reversible.
 

atlkvb

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You're ********! For a devout Christian....you have wayyyy tooooo much anger and resentment.

You want me to admit that the left never works when I just described to you multiple initiatives that worked (in the past). The entire thread (for me) was about pointing to the balance. By the way - left DOESNT MEAN COMMUNIST OR SOCIALIST! But if you'd like examples of how socialism works, look at Europe (they got problems, so do we). Or...wait a minute...you can just look to the United States of America, because if you think there are NOT socialist components already at work in outlets society you're fooling yourself.


I do agree with you boomer that American Socialism on the Left is well underway in our free market capitalist economy...and to the extent that is being practiced or has been implemented and is effective, we have the mess we're in today. More of it is going to kill our economy.

So I do agree with you we do not live in Freedom as I'd wish, no argument with you at all there. As for Europe, or any other place you want to cite where Statists or Leftists control or run the economy....I challenge you to present one as an example we should follow or emulate.

Name one.
 
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Boomboom521

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There isn't one Liberal program you pointed to boomboom521 in that entire thread that proved either creation of or expansion of the middle class. I gave you several examples of entrepreneurship that had far more impact and you dismissed all of them in favor of the WPA, the New Deal, and Social Security. All of which when reviewed decades after their initial creation have been nothing but abject failures both in their intent and execution no matter which way you choose to measure them.

Everything else that happened in that thread boom was a result of your insistence of my "intolerance" or strict adherence to only that which sits on the right.

Yet I've never heard you admit, in any discussion over the many you and I have shared, that Big Government income redistribution from the Left never works, doesn't work, and always fails. NEVER heard you admit to that.
So unions had nothing to do with the expansion?
The GI Bill?
How about the civil rights act?
 

atlkvb

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The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system always increases over time, or remains constant in ideal cases where the system is in a steady state or undergoing a reversible process. The increase in entropy accounts for the irreversibility of natural processes, and the asymmetry between future and past.

The second law deals with an ISOLATED SYSTEM. That's why it is inappropriately applied.

And the theory of evolution only speculated that evolution occurred in one direction and never postulated that it is reversible.

WRONG. 100% wrong. You cited aspects of the 1st Law, and never even mentioned the principle understanding behind the second.

You went to West Virginia University?
 

Boomboom521

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I do agree with yo boomer that American Socialism on the Left is well underway in our free market capitalist economy...and to the extent that is being practiced or has been implemented and is effective, we have the mess we're in today. More of it is going to kill our economy.

So I do agree with you we do not live in Freedom as I'd wish, no argument with you at all there. As for Europe, or any other place you want to cite where Statists or Leftists control or run the economy....I challenge you to present one as an example we should follow or emulate.

Name one.
OURS! Point of the thread----BALANCE IS WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT
 

Boomboom521

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WRONG. 100% wrong. You cited aspects of the 1st Law, and never even mentioned the principle understanding behind the second.

You went to West Virginia University?
First of all: stop knocking on a fellow Mountaineer.
Second: why don't you state what it is you are trying to prove?
Third: I think he did address the principle of the second law of thermodynamics
 

atlkvb

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So unions had nothing to do with the expansion?
The GI Bill?
How about the civil rights act?

The civil rights Act simply affirmed our original status under the Constitution. The middle class was well in existence prior to its passage.

The GI Bill gave certain preferences to Veterans who returned from the War and needed jobs or access to Capital. It didn't create the middle class, (because it didn't create the Capital that existed to make the loans) it simply affirmed those guys earned a right, and in fact deserved special consideration in the free market for their contributions protecting our Freedoms. the jobs they were hired to do, and the homes they bought financed by the capital made available from wealthy banks or other investors was the engine that drove their upward mobility in the economic marketplace.
 

atlkvb

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OURS! Point of the thread----BALANCE IS WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT

so you're arguing for more government control over our free market economy correct boom?

Give me the example we should follow where doing this produces economic expansion and expended wealth which grows the middle class? America is not your example because we are moving away from that and losing our economic model created by Freedom and entrepreneurship as American Socialism grows...which I agree with you it is choking us right now.

But where is your example of State controlled Socialism or massive income redistribution run by Statists being the example we should wish to emulate.

Where is THAT economy?
 

Boomboom521

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Mar 14, 2014
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The civil rights Act simply affirmed our original status under the Constitution. The middle class was well in existence prior to its passage.

The GI Bill gave certain preferences to Veterans who returned from the War and needed jobs or access to Capital. It didn't create the middle class, (because it didn't create the Capital that existed to make the loans) it simply affirmed those guys earned a right, and in fact deserved special consideration in the free market for their contributions protecting our Freedoms. the jobs they were hired to do, and the homes they bought financed by the capital made available from wealthy banks or other investors was the engine that drove their upward mobility in the economic marketplace.
Jobs they were hired to do with a COLLEGE DEGREE! The Civil Rights Act enforced the rights (given in partiality in the constitution) were extended to all citizens, and that true competition of wages in skilled labor was ensured.
Wealth remains concentrated in unhealthy ways if it wasn't for unions and trust busting policies
 

atlkvb

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Boomboom521

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Mar 14, 2014
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so you're arguing for more government control over our free market economy correct boom?

Give me the example we should follow where doing this produces economic expansion and expended wealth which grows the middle class? America is not your example because we are moving away from that and losing our economic model created by Freedom and entrepreneurship as American Socialism grows...which I agree with you it is choking us right now.

But where is your example of State controlled Socialism or massive income redistribution run by Statists being the example we should wish to emulate.

Where is THAT economy?
Jesus! You are ridiculous! Absolutely ridiculous! I'm arguing for us to look at our own history and appreciate that balance is what makes us the most successful. We have many elderly people having their wealth stripped in nursing homes across the nation....some programs need to be implemented, some programs destroyed and some altered. I'm just trying to fight against polarization of mind that will lead to more extremes and less overall progress. You obviously DONT GET IT AND DONT WANT TO. You got your President in office....so good luck, but I hope republican representatives in office have a little more humility than you.
 

atlkvb

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Jul 9, 2004
79,936
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Jobs they were hired to do with a COLLEGE DEGREE! The Civil Rights Act enforced the rights (given in partiality in the constitution) were extended to all citizens, and that true competition of wages in skilled labor was ensured.
Wealth remains concentrated in unhealthy ways if it wasn't for unions and trust busting policies

boomer why are wealthy people smart enough to earn status into the so called 1% but the Left doesn't think they're smart enough to know what to do with what they've earned?

I heard Sanders today complaining about how we need to "stop giving tax breaks" to the wealthiest 1% at the expense of folks who are starving.

Well that's fine to say that but who should the 1% turn their money over to once they earn it? Why does the Left get to decide they can't keep what they've earned, and must instead turn it over to them to decide how it should be spent?

I posted on here the other day John Lewis runs for office every two years complaining how folks in his district don't get enough money, or don't have enough jobs. Yet Federal outlays to his district in many cases exceed the national average (food stamps, rental housing subsidies, health care subsidies, home heating assistance, etc) yet, every two years he comes back bitching and complaining how Black folks in his district are still so much in need.

So when does the Left have to explain what's happened to the Trillions, yes I said Trillions of dollars that have been transferred from income earners into their hands to "help" the poor? We have just as many poor if not more than we've ever had. Why do they get a pass on on their failure?