wHY CAnT mUlLeNZ beat a TOp 20 TEaMZ!!!11?

[KurtRambis4]

C/O: Dubmass

2009: 1-4 against teams that at the time we played were ranked 12 (average), but finished the year ranked around 10 (average). These 5 teams had an average W% of 82%.

2010: 0-4 against teams that at the time we played were ranked 15 (aveage), but finished the year ranked 7.75 (average). These 5 teams had an average W% of 81%. **Threw out UF, bc they finished the year UR (which was a W)

2011: 0-4 against teams that at the time we played were ranked 7 (average), but finished the year ranked 4.25 (average). These 4 teams had an average W% of 89%.

2012: 0-4 against teams that at the time we played were ranked 11.75 (average), but finished the year ranked 9.25 (average). These 4 teams had an average W% of 83%.

While it is disappointing going 1-16 against teams in the top 25 (as you suggest, but have now moved to top 20 argument), that Is a little misleading. <O></O>
The five lowest ranked (in final AP polls) top 20 teams were #20 OM 2009 (W), #17 Northwestern 2012 (L), #17 LSU 2009 (L), #14 LSU 2012 (L), and #13 Georgia Tech 2009 (L). That's 1-4 against an average rank of 16.2 in the final AP polls. Three of those five were in 2009 (which is a complete pass). <O></O>
The only ones from that five I was mad about and thought we threw away were 09 LSU and last year vs. Northwestern. Northwestern was on the coaches, no doubt, but 09 was a freaking QB screw-up from us winning. It was debated ad nauseum that Mullen made a bad call(s) at the end of the drive. The truth of the matter is that if Ty Lee executes and doesn’t go full retard, we win that game.<O></O>
Of the other 12 games, the opponents average rank was 4.8. Now if you’re pissed that in our first four seasons we cannot beat a top 5 team, then there is no more of a need for us to discuss.

If you want to look at the overall, then we are 1-16 against teams that finished ranked 8.2 in the final AP poll. aGAIN, this is where they finished, thus no 2010 UF.

Nobody is proclaiming Mullen to be the second coming of Bear Bryant. However, your BS about "we aintz guud till he beatz top 20 teams on the regz" is just that...********. We’ve only played three games against teams in the #20-#15 range and are 1-2 in those games. I want us to get to the point where we are winning these games, against top 10 teams, regularly, too. However, we just haven't arrived there. <O></O>
I’m finished here.<O></O>

 

[OzarkaNSW]

Boring. You, my friend, are the ultimate mule.

 

[RocketDawg]

Scary schedules, huh? Life in the SEC West. Let's beat Alabama this year ... and A&M while we're at it.

Problem is, when we beat them they fall out of the elite rankings; if we lose, they're top 5. Can't win for losing.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Great insight to the discussion**

*

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

It's not as much to be about beating them, than it is the effort we show against top teams.

 

[KurtRambis4]

I

don't disagree with that at all. However, the argument of beating what averages out to be top 5 teams is what keeps being brought up.

 

[patdog]

Until last season, our effort was fine against the top teams. And last year it wasn't just against the top teams that it was a problem.

 

[fishwater99]

You can't give it up, can you? It's driving you crazy..
You even had to start a new thread...
Your man-crush on Mullen is tainting your thought process..

You would think we could win ONE game vs a Top 20 team in 4 years.
One Win vs a Top 20 team is not asking for too much... Just One Upset, One..
Does Mullen have any upset wins? A good coach gets his team to pull off a few upsets now and then.
He coaches them up beyond their potential and wins close games.

Will we do it this year?
I will argue that Mullen has actually digressed in years 3 & 4 and will that will continue in 2013.
He is running out of Crooms recruits and if we don't do better there, then I think we may have seen our best year under Mullen in 2010(9-4). I hope he proves me wrong this year, but I just don't see it.

2-16 vs the Top 25, with the 2 wins coming in his first two years.
Overall Record Under Mullen
1st year 5-7
2nd year 9-4
3rd year 7-6
4th year 8-5 (Lose 5 out of last 6)
5th year ??

 

[KurtRambis4]

I read

through your reply and two things stick out to me:

1) You added nothing of substance as evident by the personal attacks (mullen mancrush/driving me crazy/etc)
which deflect from the argument that crushes your silly point.

&

2) I don't believe you read or looked at any of my numbers. If so you would have responded with something like "well jeez, my argument is pretty dumb and I guess I just looked at it wrong. Those 17 games were against, on average, top 5 teams. Not top 25, as I have suggested over and over and over."<o></o>
<o></o>
Correction from initial post, above: Mullen is 1-2 against teams that you are suggesting he beats (#15-#20 range). The rest of our losses against top 25 teams are against teams ranked 15 or higher, with the majority of them being top 10/5 teams. I am agreeing with you if you think that it would be nice to beat a top 10/5 team. However, to demand that we do something that two or three teams have a shot of doing a year is crazy, in the first four years of the rebuild.

 

[engie]

Great posts. Brought the heat with this one.

 

[Shamoan]

it all boils down to smiles and cries.

we have had some smiles: ole miss '09, georgia '10, florida '10

we have had some cries: houston '09, auburn '10, ole miss '12, northwestern '12

dan mullen(s) has largely played to chalk. you gotta control your smiles and cries....because thats all you have, and nobody can take that away from you.

 

[fishwater99]

through your reply and two things stick out to me:

1) You added nothing of substance as evident by the personal attacks (mullen mancrush/driving me crazy/etc)
which deflect from the argument that crushes your silly point. (YOU STARTED THE BASHING BY CALLING ME A DUMBASS)

&

2) I don't believe you read or looked at any of my numbers. If so you would have responded with something like "well jeez, my argument is pretty dumb and I guess I just looked at it wrong. Those 17 games were against, on average, top 5 teams. Not top 25, as I have suggested over and over and over."<o></o>
<o></o>
Correction from initial post, above: Mullen is 1-2 against teams that you are suggesting he beats (#15-#20 range). The rest of our losses against top 25 teams are against teams ranked 15 or higher, with the majority of them being top 10/5 teams. I am agreeing with you if you think that it would be nice to beat a top 10/5 team. However, to demand that we do something that two or three teams have a shot of doing a year is crazy, in the first four years of the rebuild.

I am not saying we should beat Top 10 teams or even Top 20 teams on a regular basis, not sure where you get that.
I am just asking this, why hasn't Mullen won ONE GAME AGAINST a TOP 20 TEAM at the time we played them?
Why hasn't Mullen gotten one upset since he has been our coach? Just one..

WHY????

 

[KurtRambis4]

You are

not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.

 

[Rebels7]

I normally disagree with 90% of what you say

not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.

But that is just spot on, right there.

 

[Heawww]

I enjoyed the hell out of beating Auburn, Tennessee and Arkansas last year. I don't give two flying ***** if they sucked or not. That was THEIR problem, not ours. We took care of business and beat their ******* ***. Quit listening to everybody else telling you how good we were or were not.

Same with Georgia and Florida in 2010. ****, I liked beating Louisiana Tech in 2011 and MTSU in 2012, both bowl teams. There isn't a single victory I don't enjoy.

You must be a miserable mother ******. That's all I can say about you.

 

[lasher8]

Nobody cares what you think...dipshit.**

But that is just spot on, right there.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Run out of negative **** to post about State on your little board.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

Just so I'm clear,

your argument is that if you remove the largest numbers from a any given set, then the average of the numbers will be smaller than it was before you removed the larger numbers.

Excellent analysis.

notevenamathmajorku

 

[engie]

Just so I'm clear,

your argument is that if you remove the largest numbers from a any given set, then the average of the numbers will be smaller than it was before you removed the larger numbers.

Excellent analysis.

notevenamathmajorku

Not a logic major either, I presume?

His point is simple -- "Mullen can't beat top 20 teams" is a VERY misleading statement -- because Mullen has played VERY few "top 20 teams". Not even enough of data set to establish a trend -- much less a future projection. The statement should read -- logically presented -- "Mullen can't beat top 10 or top 5 teams". That's what we've actually established thusfar with enough scale to talk about conclusively.

Of course, Ole Miss fans are going to stretch it however they can to present the data in the worst possible light -- and the significant proportion of weak-minded among our fanbase will then adopt that viewpoint as their own -- and just like that, they are off the bandwagon and groaning about the coach. Thus, how the cycle becomes self-sustaining...

 

[fishwater99]

Mullen has not beaten a Top 20 team.
If you want to make excuses to feel better about our coach,
Then I can not help you.

 

[DAWG61]

I want to make the next step just like everybody else. I think we're seeing a slight digression from Mullen because we have lost some quality assistants and because Mullen has been stubborn with the offense and the playcalling duties. I also think we took a step back last year in the toughness area and somehow started playing more of a finesse style. Hopefully those won't be trends moving forward.

 

[Machiavelli]

The SECW is the elite conference. Over half will finish in the top 20. I want us to be one of those teams. We can cry that we won't or can't because of those evil, tough, 10%ers of the SECW. Well the SECW will continue to get tougher. So the question is can Mullen get us in the top half of the West? If so we will be a perennial top 20 team. If not we will soon be the Kentucky of the west. To win in the West will require elite coaches and recruiting. A coach, Mullen, making top 20 money (top 5 money among SECW coaches) has got to produce top half results. Hell, if a lesser paid, high school basketball coach can do it, then the two-time National Champion OC should be able to do it.

Mullen has all Dan-recruited, Bailis made players. He's got HIS DC. All of his coaches are his picks. Hopefully, the coaching carousel has stopped and Mullen has the guys who can get it done. If he can't get it done, we have three choices: move to CUSA; be the perennial SECW scrimmage team, happy to go to a bowl game by beating weak OOC TEAMS and which ever SEC team that has a broke, physco for a coach; or get elite results from an elite coach.

No one has mentioned that every SEC team we beat last year, fired their coaches because they didn't meet SEC STANDARDS. Have we beat a current SEC coach? No top 10, 15, or 20 stats make me feel any better. I want to win. If Auburn and TSUN beats us this year, Mullen will be on a steep slope to eternal head coaching mediocracy. I want to own this State and win a championship like we were promised. And we are not "clean up a few things, a play here or there" away from seeing those promises come to fruition, as we hear every time someone kicks our ***.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Swing and a miss**

*

 

[fishwater99]

The SECW is the elite conference. Over half will finish in the top 20. I want us to be one of those teams. We can cry that we won't or can't because of those evil, tough, 10%ers of the SECW. Well the SECW will continue to get tougher. So the question is can Mullen get us in the top half of the West? If so we will be a perennial top 20 team. If not we will soon be the Kentucky of the west. To win in the West will require elite coaches and recruiting. A coach, Mullen, making top 20 money (top 5 money among SECW coaches) has got to produce top half results. Hell, if a lesser paid, high school basketball coach can do it, then the two-time National Champion OC should be able to do it.

Mullen has all Dan-recruited, Bailis made players. He's got HIS DC. All of his coaches are his picks. Hopefully, the coaching carousel has stopped and Mullen has the guys who can get it done. If he can't get it done, we have three choices: move to CUSA; be the perennial SECW scrimmage team, happy to go to a bowl game by beating weak OOC TEAMS and which ever SEC team that has a broke, physco for a coach; or get elite results from an elite coach.

No one has mentioned that every SEC team we beat last year, fired their coaches because they didn't meet SEC STANDARDS. Have we beat a current SEC coach? No top 10, 15, or 20 stats make me feel any better. I want to win. If Auburn and TSUN beats us this year, Mullen will be on a steep slope to eternal head coaching mediocracy. I want to own this State and win a championship like we were promised. And we are not "clean up a few things, a play here or there" away from seeing those promises come to fruition, as we hear every time someone kicks our ***.

Nice Post.

This should be the last year with any of Crooms players, you would think Mullen should improve in year 5.
I see a coach who is all talk, and won with another coaches recruits. Who will be Mullen's first 1st round draft pick?
Mullen is either really stubborn or not that smart of a coach. Why does he continue to run the spread offense with a Pro-style QB?
He has refused to adapt, that kind of reminds me of our last head coach.
Mullen has wasted the best QB we have ever had at STATE, let that sink in...

 

[MedDawg]

Nice Post.

This should be the last year with any of Crooms players, you would think Mullen should improve in year 5.
I see a coach who is all talk, and won with another coaches recruits. Who will be Mullen's first 1st round draft pick?
Mullen is either really stubborn or not that smart of a coach. Why does he continue to run the spread offense with a Pro-style QB?
He has refused to adapt, that kind of reminds me of our last head coach.
Mullen has wasted the best QB we have ever had at STATE, let that sink in...

How did Mullen waste the best QB we ever had at State? By setting school records in passing yards and TDs.

 

[KurtRambis4]

You can't fix stupid**

*

 

[fishwater99]

How did Mullen waste the best QB we ever had at State? By setting school records in passing yards and TDs.

He would have even more yards and records if he was in a pro-style offense. TR is doing all of this despite playing in the spread.
Our team would have not lost 5 out of the last 6 last year either and we would have won the Egg Bowl..
Mullen's lack of adapting the offense has cost us some wins.

 

[DAWG61]

How quickly you forget Crooms. We ain't Bama but we sure as 17 ain't the MSU that was considered one of the WORST programs in the nation. Mullen has brought us bowl games, sold out stadiums, much improved facilities and the most important part, WE ARE NOT CONSIDERED A JOKE ANYMORE. He has moved mountains already. Get off his dick.

 

[engie]

He would have even more yards and records if he was in a pro-style offense. TR is doing all of this despite playing in the spread.
Our team would have not lost 5 out of the last 6 last year either and we would have won the Egg Bowl..
Mullen's lack of adapting the offense has cost us some wins.

Yeah -- going full pro-style with spread players works like a charm. No examples of that ever crashing and burning**. Auburn sure was bad *** last year on offense with what by all accounts coming in was a very good OC in Loeffler. As was Florida in Muschamp's first year(Charlie Weis OC). Saban's offense picked right up and kicked *** at Alabama didn't it? Oh -- wait -- he got Croomed didn't he(and that wasn't even a transition away from a spread)?

That's just the most recent two examples of why it doesn't work in the short term in the SEC. Of course, you lack perspective to see any of this. Tyler Russell is a pro-style QB -- so we should scrap the offense and start over in a scheme that fits the injury-prone qb -- and NO ONE ELSE on our team.

 

[engie]

Nice Post.

This should be the last year with any of Crooms players, you would think Mullen should improve in year 5.

Nice rebel propaganda spewed forth as your own opinion.

I see a coach who is all talk, and won with another coaches recruits.

You see a coach that has just won at roughly the SECOND HIGHEST RATE THIS STATE HAS SEEN IN 45 YEARS. And you are bitching your *** off about it. Let that sink in. Then counter with "but---but---top 20 wins---SEC west wins--- etc..." and let me slaughter it.

Who will be Mullen's first 1st round draft pick?

Who was Croom's? Oh--that's right--in FIVE YEARS he had ZERO of his own players drafted.

Mullen is either really stubborn or not that smart of a coach. Why does he continue to run the spread offense with a Pro-style QB?

Wow. Just wow.

He has refused to adapt, that kind of reminds me of our last head coach.

O Rly?

Mullen has wasted the best QB we have ever had at STATE, let that sink in...

Wasted? It's very possible that Tyler Russell leaves here with very nearly the best winning percentage of any starting QB to ever play for MSU. But that's "wasted" according to fishwater... Think about it.

 

[fishwater99]

Mullen has know for years, or should have, that TR would be our starting QB.
He has had time to recruit players and adapt the offense for TR, but he didn't last year.
I never said to totally change the offense, but you could make some real changes to the spread.
I have heard TR will be under center some this year. Will we have a FB in there to block for him and the TB?
We will find out soon enough..

 

[fishwater99]

Who recruited D. Sherrod, F. Cox, and J. Banks??

 

[engie]

Who recruited D. Sherrod, F. Cox, and J. Banks??

Nevermind the fact that this argument is ignorant as hell in the first place -- and by your skewed terms, 95% of "Mullen players" won't be graduating until the 2014 draft at the earliest.

Fletcher Cox was recruited by David Turner -- who Mullen retained. Ole Miss made went full court press on him and he was looking around after Croom. AT BEST, he's 50% Croom's.
John Banks was recruited by Melvin Smith -- who Mullen retained. We were his only option. AT BEST, he's 50% Croom's.
Sherrod was recruited by Croom -- wasted as a true freshman -- and thus you can basically explain the ENTIRE underperformance of our 2011 season.

What about Darius Slay? Who recruited him? He committed to us on Jan 19, 2009. Mullen's.
What about Pernell McPhee? Who recruited him? He committed to us on Jan 2, 2009. Mullen's.
What about Chad Bumphis? Jan 17. Mullen's.
What about Vick Ballard? Class of 2010. No doubt.
What about LeDarius Perkins? Jan 17. Mullen's.
Need I go on?

 

[Heawww]

WOW! You truly will never be happy.

 

[lasher8]

It really is Coach34 v2.0. When do you plan to start SuperDawgs.com??

Mullen has know for years, or should have, that TR would be our starting QB.
He has had time to recruit players and adapt the offense for TR, but he didn't last year.
I never said to totally change the offense, but you could make some real changes to the spread.
I have heard TR will be under center some this year. Will we have a FB in there to block for him and the TB?
We will find out soon enough..

 

[fishwater99]

So you are saying Crooms did not have a player he recruited drafted in the 1st round?

 

[KurtRambis4]

At any point

after this, Fishwater is just proving:

1) he's not a very intelligent person or capable of reading

or

2) an OM troll

 

[paindonthurt_]

Croom beat a top 20 team.

Let's hire that mother 17er back.

FIRE DAN MULLEN.

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

SOme of the bears I know--the same ones that used to taunt me every time Mullen was rumored to have been looking to leave to be HC at some other program-- are now saying they hope we keep him forever. They admit he is a good coach--good enough to get to or threaten to get to a bowl every year-- but a bad enough recruiter that the U of OM gets the pick of in-state recruits. They think if present trends continue, he'll win 5-7 per year, go to minor bowls every other year, and stays competitive enough to be rehired , but not good enough to be stolen by another program. They worry if Mullen leaves for whatever reason, someone like Hudspeth takes over and kicks their asses with in-state recruits. They don't think we will ever do well with OOS recruiting.

 

[engie]

So you are saying Crooms did not have a player he recruited drafted in the 1st round?

How many of those guys did he coach there? How many 4*s and 5*s of Jackies did he completely and utterly squander again?

Croom inherited twice the talent that Mullen did. Simple fact. He just coached it down and/or kicked it off the team.