Why does the media think Mullen has reached his ceiling at MSU? (Long)

shotgunDawg

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2011
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After the last two losses, some of the media is beginning to throw out the notion that Mullen has reached his ceiling at MSU. While I do understand that there ultimately may be a ceiling at MSU, as there is at every other school, I don't see any evidence that suggests that MSU has reached it or is even close to it.

There is no doubt that last two games have been very disappointing, and I think it suggests a lot about this years team, but I think it is a major stretch to say that the last two games have unmasked some greater indication that MSU has reached its ceiling as a program. We have to keep things in perspective and realize that while we were out schemed and out manned, it doesn't mean that we can't get there. I think we have all realized this year that it is much easier, in college football, to go from god awful to pretty good, then to go from pretty good to really good. Case in point: Mullen took us from god awful to pretty good very quickly and Freeze is in the process of doing the same at OM. However, just like us, OM will reach a plateau at pretty good unless they get an out of this world player at the QB position. i.e., Johnny Football or Cam Newton. Robert NK won't do it for them. Recents trends have shown that to go from pretty good to really good, if you still lack elite talent at some positions, is you have to acquire an elite play making QB. I think this is because the QB is the only position that really can't be taken out of the game due to schemes. You can't double team a QB.

Where I think the media is missing the boat is that I believe they are so conditioned to the NFL, NBA, Alabama, LSU, USC, Ohio State, & Florida way of thinking, that you can go from bad to a championship level in 3 years, that they don't understand that historically bad programs take much more time to build. What they forget is that when Bama, Florida, LSU, and Ohio State weren't good, it wasn't because of talent. It was because of mismanagement, probation, and bad coaching. Those programs already had the commitment, history, recruiting and general program infrastructure to bounce back quickly. Sounds like common sense doesn't it? But the media just really doesn't understand that for the past 50 years MSU has consistently had poor leadership in the athletic Department, bad coaching, and hasn't been financially and organizationally committed to winning in football.

Furthermore, over the past 20 years MSU has had to deal with the perception that it had the worst facilities in the SEC. However, over the past 3 years that has changed. MSU is expanding and renovating the stadium, building an unbelievable football building that will rival anyone's in the country, and showing the willingness to pay for good coaches (something I predict will only improve over the next few years). Furthermore, Starkville is growing and becoming a more legit college town year by year. So with the exception of number of seats in the stadium, who has better facilities than MSU? and if so, why? After our stadium expansion, with the exception of number of seats in the stadium, why does Alabama have better facilities than us?

Ultimately, all this should make our recruiting better. Over the past 6 years our recruiting rankings looks like this according Scout.com.

2008: 33
2009: 19
2010: 38
2011: 45
2012: 18
2013(presently): 16

By looking at our recruiting rankings, we really tanked in 2010 and 2011, and those two bad recruiting seasons have a lot to do with our current problems and why next year could be a little bit of a struggle, but the good news is that Mullen is really beginning to find his recruiting stride and our new facilities aren't even finished yet. What will happen when we move into those and recruits are able tour them?

In conclusion, it is clear that, while our football program may have momentarily plateaued, mostly due bad recruiting years in the 2010 and 2011, we are moving in the right direction and building this program the correct way. Barring a devastating probation, we are building a program that will be sustainable to years to come; brick by brick. The truth is that we didn't have the program infrastructure, like most here understand, to shoot up as quickly as Bama or LSU did when they hired new coaches. We had soooo much more ground to make up, and the good thing is that we have made up much of it and I think that will show up on the field over the next 5 years. There will certainly be more bumps in the road and we will probably lose 2 straight again next season, but the country's population is going up, our state population is going up, there are more high schools in the MS than ever before, there are more high school football teams and players than ever before, therefore, as long as Bama and LSU can only sign 25 players per year, there should be more good and elite players to recruit.

What is going on at MSU right now is putting us in position to land those recruits, and once we do, we will have the opportunity to go from good to great. MSU has not reached its ceiling, not even close.
 
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FlabLoser

Redshirt
Aug 20, 2006
10,709
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Unless we play the recruiting game that everybody else plays, and unless our recruiting websites stop prosecuting ourselves, Mullen has peaked.

Sherrill recruited better than Mullen has. Mullen has to figure out recruiting.
 

shotgunDawg

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2011
2,035
0
0
Unless we play the recruiting game that everybody else plays, and unless our recruiting websites stop prosecuting ourselves, Mullen has peaked.

Sherrill recruited better than Mullen has. Mullen has to figure out recruiting.

I totally agree Flab, and I think the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes are really holding us back right now, but the recent recruiting rankings seem to indicate that maybe Mullen is figuring it out. Only problem is, those players are either young or not on campus yet. We are redshirting 2 4 star linebackers right now. When has that ever happened? Recruiting has to continue to improve, but recent trends make me hopeful that it will.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
20,828
12,216
113
Really bites

I'm going to take off my maroon colored glasses for a moment, but I will try to answer your question.

Ultimately, its because of History and Geography...but here are some other factors.

1. Our recruiting will NEVER be on par with national contenders. Why? Our trophy room is barren and we have to recruit the same kids as LSU, Bama, Auburn, Georgia and even UT (who all have really, really big trophy rooms). Lastly, we are very conservative when comes to our recruiting practices.

2. Our facilities are sub par. Yes, we are getting a new practice facility, but we should have gotten it 10 years ago. Our stadium seats less than 60k and minus Dawgzillatron is very unimpressive. We will always be behind the curve on things that take a boat load amount of money. Our new practice facility and stadium upgrade will only put us up to par, not in the elite "haves" category.

3. Lastly, we play in the SEC. Look at Georgia. Everything they have is better than us. More fans, better facilities, richer history, and a better recruiting base. And they can't seem to get over the hump. They always fall on their face. And ****, they play in the East.

What can MSU honestly offer an elite talent kid? Early playing time and...
 

Shmuley

All-American
Mar 6, 2008
23,407
9,008
113
early playing time and ............. really awesome #hashtags, and an awesome clip-on tie for the program photo, and an awesome mannequin uni display, and cheese, and ice cream, and a kick *** view of Dorman.
 

Wizard.sixpack

Freshman
Sep 15, 2009
6,511
58
48
and..juicy jumbos

I'm going to take off my maroon colored glasses for a moment, but I will try to answer your question.

Ultimately, its because of History and Geography...but here are some other factors.

1. Our recruiting will NEVER be on par with national contenders. Why? Our trophy room is barren and we have to recruit the same kids as LSU, Bama, Auburn, Georgia and even UT (who all have really, really big trophy rooms). Lastly, we are very conservative when comes to our recruiting practices.

2. Our facilities are sub par. Yes, we are getting a new practice facility, but we should have gotten it 10 years ago. Our stadium seats less than 60k and minus Dawgzillatron is very unimpressive. We will always be behind the curve on things that take a boat load amount of money. Our new practice facility and stadium upgrade will only put us up to par, not in the elite "haves" category.

3. Lastly, we play in the SEC. Look at Georgia. Everything they have is better than us. More fans, better facilities, richer history, and a better recruiting base. And they can't seem to get over the hump. They always fall on their face. And ****, they play in the East.

What can MSU honestly offer an elite talent kid? Early playing time and...
.
 

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
10,730
6,014
113
Good post, and I agree 100 with this quote

I think we have all realized this year that it is much easier, in college football, to go from god awful to pretty good, then to go from pretty good to really good.

State is about to go to its 3rd bowl game in as many years which has been done exactly once before in the program's history. While we clearly need to make some adjustments, we also still have a very real opportunity to win the most games in a season in over a decade. From a roster standpoint, sure... '10 and '11 weren't stellar classes, but the vast majority of those guys were redshirted, and we're clearly picking up the pace with recruiting. I just don't get how all that equates to MSU having reached its ceiling, either.

I think that we've got a lot of good players on the team and a solid foundation, but I will say that we've got to start landing some game-changers if we want to take that next step. Not necessarily ten 5-star recruits like Bama and LSU, but we've got to get a few of them that can change the outcome of a game on a single play. I'm not sure that we've got more than a couple of those guys right now, and the ones that I'm thinking about have been "coached up" more than anything else.

I don't know where this train's going, but I don't think it's reached the end of the line yet by any stretch of the imagination.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
48
I'm going to take off my maroon colored glasses for a moment, but I will try to answer your question.

Ultimately, its because of History and Geography...but here are some other factors.

1. Our recruiting will NEVER be on par with national contenders. Why? Our trophy room is barren and we have to recruit the same kids as LSU, Bama, Auburn, Georgia and even UT (who all have really, really big trophy rooms). Lastly, we are very conservative when comes to our recruiting practices.

2. Our facilities are sub par. Yes, we are getting a new practice facility, but we should have gotten it 10 years ago. Our stadium seats less than 60k and minus Dawgzillatron is very unimpressive. We will always be behind the curve on things that take a boat load amount of money. Our new practice facility and stadium upgrade will only put us up to par, not in the elite "haves" category.

3. Lastly, we play in the SEC. Look at Georgia. Everything they have is better than us. More fans, better facilities, richer history, and a better recruiting base. And they can't seem to get over the hump. They always fall on their face. And ****, they play in the East.

What can MSU honestly offer an elite talent kid? Early playing time and...

1. It was under Jackie. Consistently. We can sell recruits on "being the first" to do something amazing instead of "just being the next". Anything can be spun into a positive in recruiting.

2. Our football facility is cutting edge. The only 2 that are "better" are Oregon and Tennessee. Tennessee's is actually smaller than ours if you remove the square footage from the IPF part of it. The fact that it wasn't completed 10 years ago simply hurt us for the past 10 years. It does not hurt us going forward. Capacity /=/ excellence on the stadium. This is like saying Dudy Noble is a superior venue to Trustmark Park simply because it seats more people. When the expansion/renovation is complete @ Davis Wade, it will take a backseat to no one in amenities provided. Last I checked, Oregon is doing just fine @ Autzen Stadium, which only seats about 55,000. We will end up being the only team in the country with 2 dawgzillatrons as well...

3. Exactly. We are in the SEC. That is a selling point in and of itself. We just need to step outside out footprint a little bit and find 1-2 gamechangers/class. There are talent pockets all over the country that would love to come play in the SEC, and the percentage of kids that feel that way will continue to increase with continued SEC dominance. We are halfway to none of those kids even remembering a time when the SEC was not the dominant conference in all of CFB. We have the best recruiter of the past decade inside the state of Texas on our staff. Texas that is now SEC country and has been the lifeblood of dozens of other teams for decades with much, much less in-state talent than we have in Mississippi.

4. Why do we as a program need to make excuses? Just get it done. Ole Miss is about to land the #1 national recruit(which maybe he did fall into their lap, but so what?) Excellent chance they also land the national #1 wide receiver and #1 safety prospect, only ONE of which has long-established ties to Ole Miss. That is the #1, #15, and #20 recruit nationally, along with several more in the top 100 that are giving them a solid look(many also looking at us, so it is time to prove our worth). What do they offer that we don't? If they can do it, so can we. I think Brewster is the guy that will put us in play with these national recruits... Let's just hope that we can hold onto him and grab 1-2 of those difference makers every year.
 
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DancingRabbit

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
2,209
0
0
THIS - I think we need to significantly increase our recruiting budget.

3. Exactly. We are in the SEC. That is a selling point in and of itself. We just need to step outside out footprint a little bit and find 1-2 gamechangers/class. There are talent pockets all over the country that would love to come play in the SEC, and the percentage of kids that feel that way will continue to increase with continued SEC dominance. We are halfway to none of those kids even remembering a time when the SEC was not the dominant conference in all of CFB. We have the best recruiter of the past decade inside the state of Texas on our staff. Texas that is now SEC country and has been the lifeblood of dozens of other teams for decades with much, much less in-state talent than we have in Mississippi.

When I've seen comparisons of SEC athletic budgets, in the recruiting area we were dwarfed by just about everyone else. We need to spend the time and money to develop relationships with HS coaches in Texas and elsewhere.
 

was21

Senior
May 29, 2007
9,843
517
113
After the last two losses, some of the media is beginning to throw out the notion that Mullen has reached his ceiling at MSU. While I do understand that there ultimately may be a ceiling at MSU, as there is at every other school, I don't see any evidence that suggests that MSU has reached it or is even close to it.

There is no doubt that last two games have been very disappointing, and I think it suggests a lot about this years team, but I think it is a major stretch to say that the last two games have unmasked some greater indication that MSU has reached its ceiling as a program. We have to keep things in perspective and realize that while we were out schemed and out manned, it doesn't mean that we can't get there. I think we have all realized this year that it is much easier, in college football, to go from god awful to pretty good, then to go from pretty good to really good. Case in point: Mullen took us from god awful to pretty good very quickly and Freeze is in the process of doing the same at OM. However, just like us, OM will reach a plateau at pretty good unless they get an out of this world player at the QB position. i.e., Johnny Football or Cam Newton. Robert NK won't do it for them. Recents trends have shown that to go from pretty good to really good, if you still lack elite talent at some positions, is you have to acquire an elite play making QB. I think this is because the QB is the only position that really can't be taken out of the game due to schemes. You can't double team a QB.

Where I think the media is missing the boat is that I believe they are so conditioned to the NFL, NBA, Alabama, LSU, USC, Ohio State, & Florida way of thinking, that you can go from bad to a championship level in 3 years, that they don't understand that historically bad programs take much more time to build. What they forget is that when Bama, Florida, LSU, and Ohio State weren't good, it wasn't because of talent. It was because of mismanagement, probation, and bad coaching. Those programs already had the commitment, history, recruiting and general program infrastructure to bounce back quickly. Sounds like common sense doesn't it? But the media just really doesn't understand that for the past 50 years MSU has consistently had poor leadership in the athletic Department, bad coaching, and hasn't been financially and organizationally committed to winning in football.

Furthermore, over the past 20 years MSU has had to deal with the perception that it had the worst facilities in the SEC. However, over the past 3 years that has changed. MSU is expanding and renovating the stadium, building an unbelievable football building that will rival anyone's in the country, and showing the willingness to pay for good coaches (something I predict will only improve over the next few years). Furthermore, Starkville is growing and becoming a more legit college town year by year. So with the exception of number of seats in the stadium, who has better facilities than MSU? and if so, why? After our stadium expansion, with the exception of number of seats in the stadium, why does Alabama have better facilities than us?

Ultimately, all this should make our recruiting better. Over the past 6 years our recruiting rankings looks like this according Scout.com.

2008: 33
2009: 19
2010: 38
2011: 45
2012: 18
2013(presently): 16

By looking at our recruiting rankings, we really tanked in 2010 and 2011, and those two bad recruiting seasons have a lot to do with our current problems and why next year could be a little bit of a struggle, but the good news is that Mullen is really beginning to find his recruiting stride and our new facilities aren't even finished yet. What will happen when we move into those and recruits are able tour them?

In conclusion, it is clear that, while our football program may have momentarily plateaued, mostly due bad recruiting years in the 2010 and 2011, we are moving in the right direction and building this program the correct way. Barring a devastating probation, we are building a program that will be sustainable to years to come; brick by brick. The truth is that we didn't have the program infrastructure, like most here understand, to shoot up as quickly as Bama or LSU did when they hired new coaches. We had soooo much more ground to make up, and the good thing is that we have made up much of it and I think that will show up on the field over the next 5 years. There will certainly be more bumps in the road and we will probably lose 2 straight again next season, but the country's population is going up, our state population is going up, there are more high schools in the MS than ever before, there are more high school football teams and players than ever before, therefore, as long as Bama and LSU can only sign 25 players per year, there should be more good and elite players to recruit.

What is going on at MSU right now is putting us in position to land those recruits, and once we do, we will have the opportunity to go from good to great. MSU has not reached its ceiling, not even close.

Excellent excellent post#
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
13,757
4,267
113
Unless we play the recruiting game that everybody else plays, and unless our recruiting websites stop prosecuting ourselves, Mullen has peaked.

Sherrill recruited better than Mullen has. Mullen has to figure out recruiting.

There is nothing to figure out in recruiting. What Mullen did last year, good coaching, and a little luck will get us to the next step. We're not going to outrecruit LSU and Bama anytime soon, but as long as we are playing in the same league as them in recruiting, we will have a chance for thigns to go our way. Hitting jackpot on a recruit or two (ala Fletcher Cox), having Miles coach his way out of a game or two, and/or a severe case of hemroids for Saban that cause him to sit out a season, and it could happen for us.

Our only problem now is that it took Mullen two classes to wake-up to recruiting in the SEC. It sucks that we wasted those opportunities, but if we pull in classes ranked around 15 for a couple of more years, we'll be within upset distance of Bama and LSU and probably whatever the best team in the east is, and as good or better than anybody else in the conference. If we get there, then it's time to worry about whether we can get as many 5 start recruits as LSU and Bama.
 

tenureplan

Senior
Dec 3, 2008
8,307
922
113
I'll have what he's smoking...


15th National recruiting classes are good for about 8-9th in conference. So we won't be as good or better than all teams other than LSU/BAMA/Best in East.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
You are correct, but think about this......

MSU has never thought long-term about anything before except for Polk when he was building the baseball program way back in the day. Can you really blame anyone for thinking that we have maxed out? We all know as fans that we can get better, but until we prove it like South Carolina did, they will continue to see us as lil ole MSU. Plus, we live in that 3 year or else time period of college football. If we want to build for long-term, we just have to endure the criticism until we get to where we want to be.

I see no reason why we can't follow in Carolina or say, Virginia Tech's footsteps.
 

maroonmania

Senior
Feb 23, 2008
11,053
700
113
Good post, and I agree 100 with this quote



State is about to go to its 3rd bowl game in as many years which has been done exactly once before in the program's history. While we clearly need to make some adjustments, we also still have a very real opportunity to win the most games in a season in over a decade. From a roster standpoint, sure... '10 and '11 weren't stellar classes, but the vast majority of those guys were redshirted, and we're clearly picking up the pace with recruiting. I just don't get how all that equates to MSU having reached its ceiling, either.

I think that we've got a lot of good players on the team and a solid foundation, but I will say that we've got to start landing some game-changers if we want to take that next step. Not necessarily ten 5-star recruits like Bama and LSU, but we've got to get a few of them that can change the outcome of a game on a single play. I'm not sure that we've got more than a couple of those guys right now, and the ones that I'm thinking about have been "coached up" more than anything else.

I don't know where this train's going, but I don't think it's reached the end of the line yet by any stretch of the imagination.

We definitely need a few guys with big play ability on offense. I mean it would least be nice to get some WRs that don't get run down in the open field by a DE from the opposing team.
 

hotdigitydog

Redshirt
May 21, 2007
4,728
0
0
I thought Mullen had the ability to take two star recruits and turn them into

SEC players........
 

maroonmania

Senior
Feb 23, 2008
11,053
700
113
I'll have what he's smoking...


15th National recruiting classes are good for about 8-9th in conference. So we won't be as good or better than all teams other than LSU/BAMA/Best in East.

IMO if we can keep our classes consistently in the Top 30 in the country and have a Top 15-20 class from time to time we will have enough talent to compete if our coaches perform at a high level. Classes like 2010 and 2011 (ranked in the 40-50 range) will make it very difficult to compete. Being realistic we are not going to reel in Top 10 classes so if that's what its going to take we might as well give up now.
 

TailgateCo

Redshirt
Sep 4, 2012
229
0
0
Do you think lack of discipline will be our hold up?

I'm curious what others think, but as far as things that hold us back...

I love Mullen, and the fact that he has that Saban style demand for excellence, but when I see Bama (and I'll say now, I detest Bama) hit the field, they are there to do business, we hit the field doing the dog pound rock.

I agree that we need top recruits, but can we turn them into top players?

What do y'all think about Mullen's "hype"? Is it causing a decline of discipline and costing us the big games?
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
Uhh, he does.....

Jonathan Banks? Bernardrick McKinney? Blaine Clausell? Dillon Day? All those are or will be SEC caliber players by the time they graduate. And not to mention the way they evaluate guys like Justin Cox, who weren't thought of highly out of HS, but then become All-Americans in JUCO.
 

TailgateCo

Redshirt
Sep 4, 2012
229
0
0
Railin, I agree. And I mean heck we've come a long way. I grew up in Starkville and was in college for Croom so I'm not dissin on the success we've made. I just get a little annoyed sometimes with the hype when its not attached to wins.

I want to see a team that gives 100% the whole game and I'm not sure we are seeing that out of our team. I'm just throwing it out there, is it lack of discipline on Mullen's part, or something else?
 

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
That would mean ...

I'll have what he's smoking...

15th National recruiting classes are good for about 8-9th in conference. So we won't be as good or better than all teams other than LSU/BAMA/Best in East.

that Mullen NEVER EVER will be able to beat UT, GA, Florida. Oh, wait ... he already beat those teams.
 

OleYeller

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
700
0
0
Here is a dumb question. but who is this best recruiter inside the state of texas you speak of?
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
48
What do y'all think about Mullen's "hype"? Is it causing a decline of discipline and costing us the big games?

I don't think lack of discipline is the problem... if it was, it would rear it's head off the field as well. It seems to me that we are playing timid, which can sometimes happen when discipline goes too far the other way.

Really hard to put your finger on the exact problems with this team, because such a large element of it seems to be intangible...so in that, I agree with you...
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
48
I mentioned his name later in the same post...

 

tenureplan

Senior
Dec 3, 2008
8,307
922
113
You don't have to have equal or better talent to beat another team. I was simply refuting his claim that consistant 15th ranked classes would make us the 4th most talented team in the conference.
 

HueFreeze

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
611
0
0
A good program to investigate into wouldbe USCe

I know Spurrier went 2005; 7-5 2006; 8-5 2007 6-6; 2008 7-6; 2009 7-6 ...was almost on his way out
2010 9-5; 2011 11-2; 2012 sits at 7-2

...we should really compare our 1-3 to their 1-3 years and see recruiting wise what we are looking like
...I think historically they were not very good or at least consistent (a lot like us) and it appealled to Spurrier wanting to build it up

...I don't know if we can keep Mullen that long or not that really isn't the point
...We just have to keep the same focus/style and continue to progress as a fanbase/university
 

121Josey

Redshirt
Oct 30, 2012
7,503
0
0
Because they judge MSU because of its past - NOT Dan Mullen

1. It was under Jackie. Consistently. We can sell recruits on "being the first" to do something amazing instead of "just being the next". Anything can be spun into a positive in recruiting.

2. Our football facility is cutting edge. The only 2 that are "better" are Oregon and Tennessee. Tennessee's is actually smaller than ours if you remove the square footage from the IPF part of it. The fact that it wasn't completed 10 years ago simply hurt us for the past 10 years. It does not hurt us going forward. Capacity /=/ excellence on the stadium. This is like saying Dudy Noble is a superior venue to Trustmark Park simply because it seats more people. When the expansion/renovation is complete @ Davis Wade, it will take a backseat to no one in amenities provided. Last I checked, Oregon is doing just fine @ Autzen Stadium, which only seats about 55,000. We will end up being the only team in the country with 2 dawgzillatrons as well...

3. Exactly. We are in the SEC. That is a selling point in and of itself. We just need to step outside out footprint a little bit and find 1-2 gamechangers/class. There are talent pockets all over the country that would love to come play in the SEC, and the percentage of kids that feel that way will continue to increase with continued SEC dominance. We are halfway to none of those kids even remembering a time when the SEC was not the dominant conference in all of CFB. We have the best recruiter of the past decade inside the state of Texas on our staff. Texas that is now SEC country and has been the lifeblood of dozens of other teams for decades with much, much less in-state talent than we have in Mississippi.

4. Why do we as a program need to make excuses? Just get it done. Ole Miss is about to land the #1 national recruit(which maybe he did fall into their lap, but so what?) Excellent chance they also land the national #1 wide receiver and #1 safety prospect, only ONE of which has long-established ties to Ole Miss. That is the #1, #15, and #20 recruit nationally, along with several more in the top 100 that are giving them a solid look(many also looking at us, so it is time to prove our worth). What do they offer that we don't? If they can do it, so can we. I think Brewster is the guy that will put us in play with these national recruits... Let's just hope that we can hold onto him and grab 1-2 of those difference makers every year.

THIS ^^^^

A. MSU lacks consistency: good season - bad season - good season.
B. MSU has not OUTCOACHED anyone in 12 years.
C. MSU hardly ever plays up to its potential. (See other posts here for comparisons to business mentality of Alabama)
D. MSU can't recruit offensive linemen: For 12 years the best O linemen in MS have gone elsewhere. We recruit large numbers of sub-par SEC receivers, hoping to hit the jackpot, when its not even an important part of our offensive identity. We feel better to move a JUCO DT to left tackle - arguably the most important O-line position. Most of our better signees have been busts while some we took a chance on have developed nicely. (Hopefully changes this year).
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
The 'problem' as you say, is that we just aren't good enough.....

I mean, ****, we're going to play some bad games. We rolled into Tuscaloosa (a game where Alabama was actually fired up) and made some mistakes early, and got rolled. OK, they were the best team in the country. It happens, moving on.

Then, expectedly, we were a little ******** and didn't play a good game vs. a damn good Texas A&M team who can score quick and in a hurry. Disappointing, yes. Season killing, no.

I am a little concerned about Mullen pouting and quitting. Maybe he'll learn to not do that. Who knows.

But at the end of the day, we are 7-2 and there really aren't many problems at MSU when that happens, regardless of schedule. We theoretically aren't supposed to beat better teams, that's how the physical world works. Not sure why our fans get pissed when we lose to better teams. I understand the effort deal, but let's see how we come out the rest of the season before we throw that out there.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
48
Didn't know that, thought he was from Minnesota or somewhere up north

He was @ Minnesota most recently and failed as head coach there.

He spent the first 13 years of his career with Mack Brown, first at North Carolina and then at Texas. He left Texas a decade ago and many Longhorn fans still want him back as a recruiter. Was quite a few interesting threads on their boards when we hired him... I'll see if I can find some of them real quick...

http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/74424-tim-brewster-plz-come-to-Texas-again!?

http://texas.247sports.com/Board/21/Tim-Brewster-11657394/1
 
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Palos verdes

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
1,839
36
48
The media don't know **** about us, and for the most part, they don't care. They will always think of Starkville as a dreadful little backward Mississippi town with cow pastures and having less than attractive women. On the contrary, they view Oxford like it's some kind of resort destination for college football fans everywhere.

Anyway, the sports media can't understand how Dan and Megan could find any redeeming qualities about such a horrible place. It mystifies them, and they can't stand it! In addition, they don't believe Dan will ever win big here because no one wants to play here. But everyone seems to have forgotten about Sherrill's recruiting classes and teams in the late 90's. We were beating everyone, albeit the "powers" weren't as dominant as they are now, but we made Atlanta. I'm not sure what our ceiling of success is in the present but we aren't there yet, that I do know. I also know we can, at least, achieve the level of success that Arkansas experienced in recent years under the right staff.

I believe Dan's best days are ahead at State.
 

RocketDawg

All-Conference
Oct 21, 2011
18,002
1,409
113
I agree with you for the most part, except ...

I don't think the sports media are all that enchanted with Oxford either. For someone not from the South, both Oxford and Starkville are just sleepy little Southern towns out in the sticks. Some of the announcers seem to have some complimentary things to say when they're doing a game, but I don't know if they mean it or are just being patronizing. I'm sure the new sideline gal (and her name evades me right now, but she's the thin good looking blonde) isn't all that crazy about Starkville ... said she got a speeding ticket last time she was there.

I too think Dan's better days are ahead of him. We may never beat Alabama or LSU regularly, but I think we can and should beat A&M and Missouri, whenever we play them, and just about all the Eastern opponents except maybe Florida. Realistically, in most years we might try to achieve 2nd or 3rd in the West. But I sure would like to beat Alabama!
 

Corch42

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
68
0
0
Because of the way he acts towards the media.

He's abrasive and arrogant. He has the ego of Saban and the record of Cutcliffe. Its usually not a good idea to piss off anyone who buys ink by the barrel.

I'm not saying that I think he's a bad coach. But, it's year 4 and almost everything you see on the field is his product. They're his recruits, his coaches, his system. The results are, other than beating up on some sub-par teams, nothing spectacular.
 

Oxbaker

Redshirt
Nov 9, 2012
3
0
0
What does "playing the recruiting game that everybody else plays" mean? I know you are not referring to NCAA violations considering it was proven MSU tried to pay for Cam Newton's services and the football program is currently under investigation for paying a 2 star DB from Georgia. MSU is the dirtiest program in the SEC if not the NCAA.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
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What does "playing the recruiting game that everybody else plays" mean? I know you are not referring to NCAA violations considering it was proven MSU tried to pay for Cam Newton's services and the football program is currently under investigation for paying a 2 star DB from Georgia. MSU is the dirtiest program in the SEC if not the NCAA.

Link?

and Link?

Can we go ahead and get rid of this clown now?
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
48
He's abrasive and arrogant. He has the ego of Saban and the record of Cutcliffe. Its usually not a good idea to piss off anyone who buys ink by the barrel.

I'm not saying that I think he's a bad coach. But, it's year 4 and almost everything you see on the field is his product. They're his recruits, his coaches, his system. The results are, other than beating up on some sub-par teams, nothing spectacular.

No, he isn't. Bristol and ESPN LOVE Dan Mullen. He's good friends with many personalities up there. Why else is he invited up there every spare chance he gets as a guest commentator, etc? Thanks for the insight though, Mr Locke**

He is abrasive and arrogant toward our LOCAL beat writers. Why? Because they have continually tried to throw us under the bus at every opportunity, often with total disregard to the FACTS at hand. I'm surprised a few of them still have MSU media credentials honestly.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
92
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You can't seriously need a link to these stories. There must have been 10,000 stories about MSU's cheatery during the Newton saga. here you go. http://www.imagecpr.com/?p=3144
Here is the other link you requested. http://espn.go.com/college-football...igating-mississippi-state-bulldogs-recruiting

Sure I do. We all know the stories, thus why we know you are full of **** in your representation of them.

Show me where in either link that "it was proven MSU tried to pay for Cam Newton's services". Can you? Didn't think so. It was proven that Cam Newton tried to solicit payment, and we turned him into the NCAA. There is a reason we were CLEARED OF ANY WRONGDOING.

Show me where in either link that "
currently under investigation for paying a 2 star DB from Georgia". Can you? No. Will Redmond is a 4* DB from Memphis. We've been found guilty of nothing thusfar. Keep throwing stones from your glass house though, because Byron De'Vinner, the central shady figure in the story and the ONLY person to go on the record against MSU, has MANY ties to Ole Miss including current freshmen I'Tavius Mathers and Jaylen Walton, as well as prospect Mark Dodson. You've even tried to hire him as your recruiting coordinator prior to his recent trip to "full retard" in trying to sink MSU. Nice hat, Byron. Your motivation is not at all questionable**



http://www.volnation.com/forum/around-ncaa/165868-byron-devinner.html

Nice try. Better luck next time. Bring better material.
 
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Sutterkane

Redshirt
Jan 23, 2007
5,100
0
0
I appreciate your analysis, but why can't we be an Oregon? I see no reason why State or Ole Miss can't become an Oregon

Ultimately, its because of History and Geography...but here are some other factors.

1. Our recruiting will NEVER be on par with national contenders. Why? Our trophy room is barren and we have to recruit the same kids as LSU, Bama, Auburn, Georgia and even UT (who all have really, really big trophy rooms). Lastly, we are very conservative when comes to our recruiting practices.

If you go back to 2000, Us and Oregon have very similar football histories, although Oregon did win the Pac 10 5 times and we've won the SEC once and the western division once. Theirs in the last 12 years has been much better than ours. Oregon has to recruit the same kids as Washington (who has a better history), Oregon State, and all of the California schools which all have either better college towns with more stuff to do and/or better weather.

What can MSU honestly offer an elite talent kid? Early playing time and...

Oregon had little to offer players back in the 90s but they've built their program in the last 20 years into something to be reckoned with. I see no reason why either us or Ole Miss can't do the same thing with the right leadership.
 

was21

Senior
May 29, 2007
9,843
517
113
Gary Danielson commented last week that he didn't know where the Grove was and wasn't interested in directions...that he was only interested in the football game...thought that was humorous.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,746
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I appreciate your analysis, but why can't we be an Oregon? I see no reason why State or Ole Miss can't become an Oregon

If you go back to 2000, Us and Oregon have very similar football histories, although Oregon did win the Pac 10 5 times and we've won the SEC once and the western division once. Theirs in the last 12 years has been much better than ours. Oregon has to recruit the same kids as Washington (who has a better history), Oregon State, and all of the California schools which all have either better college towns with more stuff to do and/or better weather.

Oregon had little to offer players back in the 90s but they've built their program in the last 20 years into something to be reckoned with. I see no reason why either us or Ole Miss can't do the same thing with the right leadership.

The very big reason is because neither of us have a Phil Knight. We would require a booster of that level to every have the finances to become "elite." Phil Knight has pumped about $350 million into the University of Oregon, while using them to become the cutting edge in equipment technology, and thus America's sweetheart team.

We will have to have a huge influx of $$ to be able to rise on an Oregon scale quickly. Even as such, it took them 20 years after they "got serious" of good football to get to where they are at now... A whole bunch of 7-9 win seasons in there before they took the next step forward.