Why shouldn't we hire Franklin?

[18IsTheMan]

He's available. He'd probably be very open to going somewhere like USC that has dreams of greatness but overall low expectations. He's the perfect program builder. It would be a very low pressure situation for him coming from PSU. I'm positive he'd build us into a consistent 9-win type team. If he could win 8 or 9 games a year semi-regularly, our fans would be in hog heaven. He'd probably get a state holiday in his honor. We could pay him at least as much as he was making at PSU. He'd be back in the SEC where he made his name.

He's still relatively young, but has a very strong track record as a head coach. Not very often you get a chance at hiring a proven head coach who is in his early 50s. Yeah, he was just fired, but only b/c he didn't win a national title, so he's far from a coaching re-tread.

It would be a very alpha move by Donati to fire Beamer and hire Franklin, but chances like this don't come along often. Maybe once ever in your tenure as AD. I don't think it's in our DNA to do it, but it would be slam dunk by any measure. He's really the perfect coach for us with his track record at building programs, which is exactly what we need. In spite of his demise at PSU he's still very highly regarded in coaching circles and would be able to attract very good assistants, which is something we can't do now.

I see no downside.

 

[Piscis]

I don't think he would come here. He sure doesn't need the money now and he knows SC isn't going to throw the vast sums of money at the program like PSU did and he also knows SC is not the "dream school" destination type program PSU is for talented kids. I read an article that said PSU opened the checkbook and told him to spend whatever it took to win a championship, and he did, and they didn't. PSU paid Allar whatever it took to come back for another year when he was pretty much a lock to be a first round pick. They hired the DC away from Ohio State. Their NIL budget is on par with the top programs in the country.

SC isn't going to do any of those things and Franklin knows it. I think SC has too many built in disadvantages for a proven, in demand coach anywhere close to the prime of his career to want to come. A young, energetic G5 coach who wants to build his resume for a top P4 job is the best bet for SC to enjoy success in football.

 

[92Pony]

I think he's a scumbag, but he can coach (and build a winner, as stated). Heck, he won at Vanderbilt. Winning cures/masks a lot of things (being a scumbag).
It won't happen, but if it did, my concern would be that he'd bolt from us as soon as something bigger came along.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I don't think he would come here. He sure doesn't need the money now and he knows SC isn't going to throw the vast sums of money at the program like PSU did and he also knows SC is not the "dream school" destination type program PSU is for talented kids. I read an article that said PSU opened the checkbook and told him to spend whatever it took to win a championship, and he did, and they didn't. PSU paid Allar whatever it took to come back for another year when he was pretty much a lock to be a first round pick. They hired the DC away from Ohio State. Their NIL budget is on par with the top programs in the country.

SC isn't going to do any of those things and Franklin knows it. I think SC has too many built in disadvantages for a proven, in demand coach anywhere close to the prime of his career to want to come. A young, energetic G5 coach who wants to build his resume for a top P4 job is the best bet for SC to enjoy success in football.

Cignetti has obliterated the "disadvantages" argument. IU has every disadvantage we have, and then some.

USC is not failing for any lack of resources.

Coming from a place where he was canned just for not winning a title, I think he'd welcome an opportunity to coach at a place that would worship the ground you walk on if you could win 8 games.

 

[Piscis]

Cignetti has obliterated the "disadvantages" argument.

USC is not failing for any lack of resources.

Coming from a place where he was canned just for not winning a title, I think he'd welcome an opportunity to coach at a place that would worship the ground you walk on if you could win 8 games.

Cignetti isn't playing an SEC schedule. IU really only has one impressive win this season and really didn't have any impressive wins last season (Michigan isn't anything great now that they aren't cheating anymore). Cignetti just made sure his family is set for eternity if they hire a good money manager but I think IU returns to earth after this season. He will keep them on the winning side of the ledger but they aren't going to be a championship team.

Franklin doesn't need any money, his buyout is $49million, and I doubt Carolina would pay him close to what he was making at PSU so he has no financial incentive to take the job. Carolina would have to offer him $10million a year for 5 years fully guaranteed. Would 8 wins be worth that?

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

I don't think he would come here. He sure doesn't need the money now and he knows SC isn't going to throw the vast sums of money at the program like PSU did and he also knows SC is not the "dream school" destination type program PSU is for talented kids. I read an article that said PSU opened the checkbook and told him to spend whatever it took to win a championship, and he did, and they didn't. PSU paid Allar whatever it took to come back for another year when he was pretty much a lock to be a first round pick. They hired the DC away from Ohio State. Their NIL budget is on par with the top programs in the country.

SC isn't going to do any of those things and Franklin knows it. I think SC has too many built in disadvantages for a proven, in demand coach anywhere close to the prime of his career to want to come. A young, energetic G5 coach who wants to build his resume for a top P4 job is the best bet for SC to enjoy success in football.

If PSU had an open check book and Franklin used it and still didn't win, I think that's all we need to know to say NO.

 

[Piscis]

If PSU had an open check book and Franklin used it and still didn't win, I think that's all we need to know to say NO.

Franklin won, he just didn't win what they wanted and he couldn't win the big games.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If PSU had an open check book and Franklin used it and still didn't win, I think that's all we need to know to say NO.

Franklin did win. 70% of his games. Just didn't win a title.

We'd sell our souls to win 70% of our games.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Cignetti isn't playing an SEC schedule. IU really only has one impressive win this season and really didn't have any impressive wins last season (Michigan isn't anything great now that they aren't cheating anymore). Cignetti just made sure his family is set for eternity if they hire a good money manager but I think IU returns to earth after this season. He will keep them on the winning side of the ledger but they aren't going to be a championship team.

Franklin doesn't need any money, his buyout is $49million, and I doubt Carolina would pay him close to what he was making at PSU so he has no financial incentive to take the job. Carolina would have to offer him $10million a year for 5 years fully guaranteed. Would 8 wins be worth that?

Franklin has already successfully coached in the SEC at a school with the least resources and commitment of all programs in the SEC. One of the most impossible places to win in the P4.

We were already paying him extremely close to what he was making at PSU. His salary was $8.5 million. Beamer's is $8.15 million. We could easily do $9 million.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

Franklin won, he just didn't win what they wanted and he couldn't win the big games.

Don't we want to win the big games?

 

[Piscis]

Franklin has already successfully coached in the SEC at a school with the least resources and commitment of all programs in the SEC. One of the most impossible places to win in the P4.

We were already paying him extremely close to what he was making at PSU. His salary was $8.5 million. Beamer's is $8.15 million. We could easily do $9 million.

He's making that much to sit at home now.

I guess the fact he is a monumental a**hat also makes him less desirable.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Don't we want to win the big games?

I would take a .700 win percentage any way we can get there.

 

[18IsTheMan]

He's making that much to sit at home now.

I guess the fact he is a monumental a**hat also makes him less desirable.

Our fans always said Spurrier was an a**hat. Until he came here.

I don't care what he's like personally. I won't be hanging out with him. His players like him, so not much else matters.

 

[Piscis]

Our fans always said Spurrier was an a**hat. Until he came here.

Spurrier was still an a**hat when he was here. If he hadn't had the three year run of miraculous recruiting success he would have likely gone down as another above average coach here. If he had won his usual 7 games from '11 to '13 and then quit mid season, he would be reviled as much as Muschamp.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Spurrier was still an a**hat when he was here. If he hadn't had the three year run of miraculous recruiting success he would have likely gone down as another above average coach here. If he had won his usual 7 games from '11 to '13 and then quit mid season, he would be reviled as much as Muschamp.

But we didn't care that he was an a**hat b/c he was our a**hat and he was winning. Even before the 11-13 run, we picked up wins against UGA, UT and UF, so we didn't mind.

There's frankly almost no character trait that would turn me off to a head coach if he won 70% of his games. Shoot, he had a .620 win percentage at Vandy. I'd love even that. Spurrier had a .630 win percentage here, and that was being checked out most of the time he was here.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Head coaching experience, in his prime, career .700 win percentage, previous success at the hardest place to win in the SEC, established program builder, respected in the coaching community.

It makes too much sense for us to do it.

 

[adcoop]

I think we should consider it, but I think we need to let the season play out and see if Beamer can get this turned around somewhat and maybe scratch out a 6-6 or 7-5 season. If so, I say we keep Beamer. We have paid him. I still think he can grow into a good coach. If this season ends up in disaster, I wouldn't mind looking around. The one concern I have is that Franklin's final two losses were an indication that he lost his team. As a coach, you can't let one tough loss beat you three times especially when the other two losses are to bad football teams.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I think we should consider it, but I think we need to let the season play out and see if Beamer can get this turned around somewhat and maybe scratch out a 6-6 or 7-5 season. If so, I say we keep Beamer. We have paid him. I still think he can grow into a good coach. If this season ends up in disaster, I wouldn't mind looking around. The one concern I have is that Franklin's final two losses were an indication that he lost his team. As a coach, you can't let one tough loss beat you three times especially when the other two losses are to bad football teams.

They did really lose their wind after the Oregon loss, but I think it was really the only bad stretch he had in his time at PSU.

Of course, I know this is all hypothetical, but it's not often that you have coach of Franklin's caliber, still in his prime, available for hire.

I don't really see him as much of a gamble. Will he win a title here? Doubtful. Would he make us a top 25 team. Most likely. Say we wait and give Beamer another year then decide to look. We're likely rolling the dice on some unknown entity.

I just think this is a very rare opportunity. It would require a cutthroat mindset, which isn't how we operate. Think UGA axing Richt just so they could hire Kirby. That was cold and calculated, but it had to be done for them to get where they wanted to be.

 

[Piscis]

I think we should consider it, but I think we need to let the season play out and see if Beamer can get this turned around somewhat and maybe scratch out a 6-6 or 7-5 season. If so, I say we keep Beamer. We have paid him. I still think he can grow into a good coach. If this season ends up in disaster, I wouldn't mind looking around. The one concern I have is that Franklin's final two losses were an indication that he lost his team. As a coach, you can't let one tough loss beat you three times especially when the other two losses are to bad football teams.

Beamer isn't going anywhere after this season, no matter what the record. The tough decision will be what to do if he goes 6-6 or 7-5 next season.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Beamer isn't going anywhere after this season,

Which is why we have never succeeded as a program and never will. We're ok with being bad.

 

[kidrobinski]

Which is why we have never succeeded as a program and never will. We're ok with being bad.

Our history is mighty long to throw a one-liner like that at it. Its something more. We ARE the state that seceded from the union; we're a little different here

I think its more along the lines of we aren't willing to do what is neccessary to have a Georgia level program; I see them, and other programs, basing their lives around it and going into the DTs if they lose a friggin football game; I neither admire that nor do I want that, You can say you'd be happy with consistent 70% but after a couple of years you'd get greedy, And at the end of the day, for what?

I love Carolina sports, its one of my vices. But if you gave me a choice of Carolina going undefeated and winning a national championship next season or seven days at the beach, I'd be packing the truck.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Our history is mighty long to throw a one-liner like that at it. Its something more. We ARE the state that seceded from the union; we're a little different here

I think its more along the lines of we aren't willing to do what is neccessary to have a Georgia level program; I see them, and other programs, basing their lives around it and going into the DTs if they lose a friggin football game; I neither admire that nor do I want that, You can say you'd be happy with consistent 70% but after a couple of years you'd get greedy, And at the end of the day, for what?

I love Carolina sports, its one of my vices. But if you gave me a choice of Carolina going undefeated and winning a national championship next season or seven days at the beach, I'd be packing the truck.

I certainly don't find my joy life in from sports, so I agree there. But I do enjoy it and I'd enjoy it more if we were winning.

But it just seems at some point, if we're going to keep having a football program, we need to decide if we want to take that next step. why just keep dumping millions of dollars into being mediocre? UGA did it with hiring Kirby, who was a roll of the dice. They fired a very successful head coach for the chance to take the next step. It paid off. Clemson did it when they threw the bank at Venables.

For us, it's not a matter of taking the step from very good to great, it's taking the step from mediocre to good. I'm not even saying to fire Beamer b/c he sucks. It's just there's an opportunity to get a proven winner and program builder in his prime. If and win we ever do decide to move on from Beamer, I can guarantee nobody of Franklin's caliber would be available. Hiring Franklin overcomes one of Beamer's major handicaps: he doesn't have the cachet to hire quality assistants.

There is probably some truth to the fact that we'd eventually tire of winning 70% of our games. Clemson fans now act like it's their birthright to win national titles. I'd like to think our fanbase would be different. If we could win 8 games a year, sometimes 9+, I think we'd be giddy.

 

[adcoop]

Which is why we have never succeeded as a program and never will. We're ok with being bad.

I still say you don't panic. If a mistake was made, it was probably hiring Beamer in the first place. However, we have invested in him and he has shown signs of being a good coach. A coach that is a fighter and will get you wins when you least expect them. We have the structure of having the defense figured out as long we can keep Clayton White and/or Torrian Gray. Now, if we can only get the offense figured out. I fear we will be training Beamer to be successful somewhere else if we let him go too quickly.

 

[Mr. Belvedere]

I love the throw **** against the wall that has no relation to anything that might remotely happen scenario...

 

[sclawman77]

Like I said in another thread, hire Franklin as OC and then if Shane doesn't work out let Franklin be interim coach for half a season.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I love the throw **** against the wall that has no relation to anything that might remotely happen scenario...

that's what forums are for!

 

[LonesomeRooster]

I'm probably in the minority, but I wouldn't want Franklin here. His personality does not seem like a good fit for SC.

Besides, we are not changing coaches any time soon.

 

[Piscis]

Like I said in another thread, hire Franklin as OC and then if Shane doesn't work out let Franklin be interim coach for half a season.

Do you really think Franklin would even take a call about the OC position at SC? Franklin is not sitting at home wondering how he is going to pay the bills or if anyone likes him.

 

[Uscg1984]

Don't we want to win the big games?

I'd like to start with winning some medium games.

Having said that, I think our typical schedule does contain a lot more "big" games than PSU's does, at least relative to where the two programs are. Year in and year out, Penn State usually has more talent than all but a couple of teams on their schedule. That is certainly not the case here. His pattern of consistently losing to the 1 or 2 teams each year who are better than PSU, could easily become 5 or 6 annual losses to the teams on our schedule who have more talent than we do.

 

[sclawman77]

Do you really think Franklin would even take a call about the OC position at SC? Franklin is not sitting at home wondering how he is going to pay the bills or if anyone likes him.

I meant us opening up the wallet. I don't necessarily expect it to happen but throwing the idea out there. Let me clarify-I'm not a diehard Franklin fan but I think Shula is a horrible fit.

 

[kidrobinski]

I still say you don't panic. If a mistake was made, it was probably hiring Beamer in the first place. However, we have invested in him and he has shown signs of being a good coach. A coach that is a fighter and will get you wins when you least expect them. We have the structure of having the defense figured out as long we can keep Clayton White and/or Torrian Gray. Now, if we can only get the offense figured out. I fear we will be training Beamer to be successful somewhere else if we let him go too quickly.

I can already hear the sabres rattling, but your last sentence is exactly what makes Beamer so comfortable for many, myself included. South Carolina fans are convinced that the sexy hires de jure are clawing at our doors and could do what Dietzel, Holtz, and Spurrier could not if we would but throw more of the millions they complain so much about at them. Spuirrier was going to go to North Carolina and saw more in them than he did us; read his book. Herman turned us down. Smart turned us down. As noted, if Franklin came here he wouldn't have what he had to work with at PennSt and thats more than just money; if we did hire him, also as noted, if he did win some games he'd be gone to highest money waver.

I'm good with Beamer. I'd like the OC addressed same as everyone else, but Beamer I'm good with. Actually excited to see whats in store. If we lose some games along the way, so be it, not like that hasn't happened ever.

 

[Sleepyhead]

Please no.

 

[sclawman77]

I still say you don't panic. If a mistake was made, it was probably hiring Beamer in the first place. However, we have invested in him and he has shown signs of being a good coach. A coach that is a fighter and will get you wins when you least expect them. We have the structure of having the defense figured out as long we can keep Clayton White and/or Torrian Gray. Now, if we can only get the offense figured out. I fear we will be training Beamer to be successful somewhere else if we let him go too quickly.

If Shane gets let go by us he won't be a head coach again. That's typically the norm here-graveyard of coaching-head coaches either die (RIP Joe), retire or join another coaching staff with a lower title.

 

[Piscis]

I can already hear the sabres rattling, but your last sentence is exactly what makes Beamer so comfortable for many, myself included. South Carolina fans are convinced that the sexy hires de jure are clawing at our doors and could do what Dietzel, Holtz, and Spurrier could not if we would but throw more of the millions they complain so much about at them. Spuirrier was going to go to North Carolina and saw more in them than he did us; read his book. Herman turned us down. Smart turned us down. As noted, if Franklin came here he wouldn't have what he had to work with at PennSt and thats more than just money; if we did hire him, also as noted, if he did win some games he'd be gone to highest money waver.

I'm good with Beamer. I'd like the OC addressed same as everyone else, but Beamer I'm good with. Actually excited to see whats in store. If we lose some games along the way, so be it, not like that hasn't happened ever.

You make one very good point. South Carolina fans love to say "we should get _____________" when the reality is, _________________ probably has no interest in being the head coach at South Carolina.

Beamer was a mistake. He hadn't been good enough anywhere to even be a coordinator, he had only ever been a position coach. The best path for some modicum of sustained success (success being 8 to 9 wins a season) at South Carolina is to hire an up and coming G5 head coach who wants to make the jump to P4 and will use South Carolina as a stepping stone to a bigger job.

 

[18IsTheMan]

You make one very good point. South Carolina fans love to say "we should get _____________" when the reality is, _________________ probably has no interest in being the head coach at South Carolina.

Beamer was a mistake. He hadn't been good enough anywhere to even be a coordinator, he had only ever been a position coach. The best path for some modicum of sustained success (success being 8 to 9 wins a season) at South Carolina is to hire an up and coming G5 head coach who wants to make the jump to P4 and will use South Carolina as a stepping stone to a bigger job.

How is that approach better then hiring a coach who has already proved he can get 9 wins in the same conference at arguably the most difficult place to succeed in the P4?

Franklin is 8/9 win lock.

 

[kidrobinski]

You make one very good point. South Carolina fans love to say "we should get _____________" when the reality is, _________________ probably has no interest in being the head coach at South Carolina.

Beamer was a mistake. He hadn't been good enough anywhere to even be a coordinator, he had only ever been a position coach. The best path for some modicum of sustained success (success being 8 to 9 wins a season) at South Carolina is to hire an up and coming G5 head coach who wants to make the jump to P4 and will use South Carolina as a stepping stone to a bigger job.

I don’t necessarily disagree but isn’t that what we did with Sparky Woods?

Time will tell if Beamer was a ‘mistake.’ It hasn’t yet.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I don’t necessarily disagree but isn’t that what we did with Sparky Woods?

Time will tell if Beamer was a ‘mistake.’ It hasn’t yet.

I agree it's not a mistake yet. Also not a success. The jury is still out. But should the jury still be out in Year 5? I think we probably have seen what we're going to get with Beamer. If he hits in the portal, good years. If he doesn't, bad/mediocre years.

Or take the sure thing. We've already seen what Franklin can do with less resources than us (Vandy) and what he can do with more resources than us (PSU). He'd be a sure thing to get us 8/9 wins a year.

There were a lot of folks around here who thought we should have pursued Richt after he was fired from UGA. We've seen Franklin's floor and ceiling. His floor here would probably be about 7 wins. Ceiling would probably be 10 wins.

I have advocated in the past on here for just giving Beamer a 10 year contract and seeing what happens, so I'm not totally down on Beamer (recent post history aside). This is just a very rare opportunity.

Of course, I know this isn't happening. You are right that Beamer is secure this year no matter what. It's just a Friday thought exercise. It makes total sense to me, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[JohnnySolo]

The report I read, whether true or not, said Franklins buyout requires he look for employment and they will pay him the difference between his buyout and the salary he gets.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The report I read, whether true or not, said Franklins buyout requires he look for employment and they will pay him the difference between his buyout and the salary he gets.

Yes, one article I read suggested (somewhat in jest) that he start a podcast, The James Franklin Experience. It costs a few hundred bucks and would satisfy PSU's demands to look for a job.

 

[Rob Hawk]

I agree it's not a mistake yet. Also not a success. The jury is still out. But should the jury still be out in Year 5? I think we probably have seen what we're going to get with Beamer. If he hits in the portal, good years. If he doesn't, bad/mediocre years.

Or take the sure thing. We've already seen what Franklin can do with less resources than us (Vandy) and what he can do with more resources than us (PSU). He'd be a sure thing to get us 8/9 wins a year.

There were a lot of folks around here who thought we should have pursued Richt after he was fired from UGA. We've seen Franklin's floor and ceiling. His floor here would probably be about 7 wins. Ceiling would probably be 10 wins.

I have advocated in the past on here for just giving Beamer a 10 year contract and seeing what happens, so I'm not totally down on Beamer (recent post history aside). This is just a very rare opportunity.

Of course, I know this isn't happening. You are right that Beamer is secure this year no matter what. It's just a Friday thought exercise. It makes total sense to me, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What will the temperature be on Monday morning if we are sitting at 3-4?