I don't think he will be fired if he misses a bowl game again. Heck Mitch wasn't even gonna fire joker until fans stopped coming to the games. But coach stoops will lose a huge chunk of the fan base if they fail to reach post season again which will be the beginning of the end for him.
Will/Should Mark Stoops be fired if UK fails to reach a bowl again?
- Thread starter ScrewDuke1
- Start date
Last 19 games. 5-14.
Wins vs.
-SC, worst team in The SEC last season.
-Mizzou, a rebuilding year in which they sucked.
-EKU, needed a miracle 4th qrtr come back to our game into overtime.
-ULL, a very very bad team last season.
-Charlotte, one of the top 5 worst teams in D-1.
So in last 19 games have zero quality wins and our best win (by record) is EKU. Stoops ain't proven ish so far.
Wins vs.
-SC, worst team in The SEC last season.
-Mizzou, a rebuilding year in which they sucked.
-EKU, needed a miracle 4th qrtr come back to our game into overtime.
-ULL, a very very bad team last season.
-Charlotte, one of the top 5 worst teams in D-1.
So in last 19 games have zero quality wins and our best win (by record) is EKU. Stoops ain't proven ish so far.
I agree with you OP, I don't think he'll be fired, but a lot of the fan base will probably start howling for it.
As for myself I'm not sure. Do you throw away what he has done and start over with yet another new coach, or do you hang in there with him. Hopefully we win at least 6 and it's a moot issue.
As for myself I'm not sure. Do you throw away what he has done and start over with yet another new coach, or do you hang in there with him. Hopefully we win at least 6 and it's a moot issue.
This is All on Mitch ! He hired another coach with No Head coaching experience in the toughest conference in the country the SEC ! But No , Stoops will not get fired because Barnhart the Buffoon extended Stoops's contract before he won anything or went to a bowl game ! Stoops buyout is just to Big. Barnhart ought to be fired if this season is a failure !
5-14 in last 19 games with zero quality wins. Best win being EKU (miracle comeback win in overtime). Stoops hasn't proven a damn thing. No matter how many playmakers you have. The scheme we ran against the read option is the wrong play. And we never adjust. So we get burnt on it over and over again. Muschamp had all the talent in the world. Still sucked major donkey butt. Sometimes being a good DC doesn't translate to being a good coach. And so far our team's preparation and the in game coaching/adjustments/clock management has been the poorest of the poor.
All I'm saying is this is a make or break year for stoops. If we get the same results we got last season. Then he's obviously not cut out for the job. What's not to understand about that is beyond me. He looks like he's way in over his head on the sidelines. And much of the time just looks lost, especially considering he doesn't make in game adjustments. Just because we're finishing 11-13 and maybe the occasional 10 every year in the SEC recruiting rankings doesn't guarantee success. You're gonna have to coach your players up if you finish in the bottom 4th of your conference recruiting rankings every year or at least average out in the bottom 4th. You can have all the talent in the world and still suck, and that's the thing we'll never have all the talent in the world like Muschamp had at UF.
So maybe. Just maybe. Stoops sucks. Maybe he's just a bad HC and needs to go back to DC'ing when it's all said and done. We'll know answer at this season's conclusion. But as far as year 3 went, he looked like a first year head coach as much as a first year head coach can look like in hisn3rd hear. That's a very bad sign. Our special teams were the worst I've ever seen. The hiring of Dawson was just a downright terrible uneducated hire on stoops end (he had never OC'd a D-1 game in his entire life). We many times were disorganized and out of position before the snap on defense. Stoops may very well be the worst HC in the SEC to ever coach a game at this point. And considering the fact we average out in the bottom 4th of the SEC recruiting rankings on top of that. If you're not getting the best players you're going to have to coach them up, look at Brooks and what he did with wayyyyyy less talent (if you judge talent by star ratings). And maybe, just maybe. Stoops isn't the man for the job. I know that's hard for a lot of you to get a grasp of. Many were in denial about BCG being the wrong man for the hire. It's ok. Anyone who dons the blue and white is the man for the job no matter what til it reaches joker-esque levels. There's always gonna be those people.
Stoops has done everything except win. I hope he wins and stays here for twenty years. If he don't get to a bowl this year, Mitch has to let him go because Art Briles will not be available after next year.
We have been playing since 1892 - 1892!!!!
We have been to 14 bowls. We had an unprecedented run with Brooks.
Like it or not, our history does not include much success. Let a coach be here for a while instead of these 3 or 4 year run outs.
Stoops has 2 years left in my opinion..after all the $$$$$$ UK has spent..it's tme to deliver
He is the REASON we have all of the new facilities! No other coach could or would even try! Stoops hit the road and RAISED the $$$$
Not true...main reason Grandpa Brooks left...would loved to have seen what he could have done with all the new facilities! !
Barring a total Joker type meltdown, Mark Isn't going anywhere. Good discussion, however
He has two years left to make it happen.
Without a bowl this year, season ticket sales will tank even more next year.
He will be a dead man walking ------- unless he starts to win, then walk up sales will save his job.
Without a bowl this year, season ticket sales will tank even more next year.
He will be a dead man walking ------- unless he starts to win, then walk up sales will save his job.
Outstanding post. The fact that people.think that Stoops should have 50 years of bad football turned around in 4 years is ludicrous. And add to it that he took over one of the worst rosters I have ever seen, and you definitely can't do it without a miracle. The new budget and more money that is being put into the program does not change the fact that you still have to change a culture and a mind set. Those are the hardest things to change. (See this post as proof) Thise things also don't make players talented, experienced, and have depth over night.
The other thing to consider, and for some reason people forget this, is that the other teams that have been more talented for years aren't just going to roll over and let us catch up. Even with our better recruiting, it is still behind much of the SEC and the teams we have to beat. New facilities don't fix everything. Stoops has done great up to this point in recruiting for OUR standards. Once they are able to pick up a few more wins, hopefully the recruiting will get even better.
This year for possibly the first time EVER KENTUCKY will be on èqual footing facilities wise with ANYBODY in the conference or the country for that matter...now we just have to hope that MS and this staff are capable of recruiting (and coaching) to it AND THE FANS need to do their part by packing the stadium and get behind the team and staff and see where this thing can go...#ALLIN
I'm not denying a bowl game, is a testament to a successful season for a weak SEC school in football. My problem being is why the continuous turnover of coaches...just to garner something we haven't achieved since the "bear" Bryant days....
Real success, the hopes of us completing in football like basketball, is very unrealistic. So we as a fanbase, will always be satisfied with mediocre... (6-6, 7-5 or 8-4)....unless your Fran curci. We play in the STRONGEST conference in college football, it will never change where we stand....
I'm 44, and witnessed.... Jerry Claiborne, Bill Curry, Hal Mumme, Rich Brooks, Joker Philips and now Stoops....Claiborne, Mumme and Brooks on average...(6-6, 7-5 and 8-4)
As my most recent post in this thread indicates. You're an absolute homer if you feel like stoops has proven anything. This is the year to put up or shut up. If he doesn't put up then shut up. Out of all the coaches in the SEC to have coached a game he is likely the worst. We finish in the bottom 4th in the SEC recruiting rankings near yearly. So we need a coach who can coach up the recruits who rank in the bottom portion of the conference. And he hasn't proven to be an even halfway competent head coach. Game preparation has been terrible. Game management has been terrible. Clock management has been terrible. Lack of adjustments/worst read option defense ever has been, well, the worst read option defense ever we don't run the right scheme to stop that play so we get burnt on it and never adjust to the play. It's year 4. Time to put up or shut up. No more excuses for the coach who still looks like a first year head coach on the sidelines. Special teams last season? Pathetic. Just been an all around horribly coached team the last 19 games. Zero noteworthy wins. I can't believe there's people on here who actually act as if stoops is a proven HC. Gotta love the blue kool-aid eh? whatever blue kool aid others are drinking like the post you quoted you like to share with them. Anyone who is 100% pro stoops and anyone who thinks he's a proven HC surely has you thinking of what a great post it is. OMG you think stoops is a proven HC? Me too!!!! Awesome post man. Lol. Jeez.
First I don't have a comment for what UK should do with CMS if UK doesn't make it to a bowl this season, that a UK fans, administrators decision. But something you posted jumped out at me. When a Mark Richt team had a bad game or down year, his comments were always this, "players fail to execute good enough for us to win". My opinion, and I coached over 30 years in Georgia, was and has always been this, you have to adapt what you do to what your players can do, or execute, To insist on running your offense, or defense with players who can't execute it is just beating your head against the wall. As a high school coach, for the most part, you have to play with the guys who live in your district. But a college coach doesn't have that execuse, it's his job to go get players who can execute what he wants done, if they can't why recruit them?
But even with that, if those guys can't execute what you want to do, you better change what you want to do to something they can or be looking at the next stop. Being able to adapt what you do to what your players can do is what separates the very good/great coaches from the wants who have a lot of names on their resumes.
This is how a non-homer realistic fan sees things.
5-14 in last 19 games with zero quality wins. Best win being EKU (miracle comeback win in overtime). Stoops hasn't proven a damn thing. No matter how many playmakers you have. The scheme we ran against the read option is the wrong play. And we never adjust. So we get burnt on it over and over again. Muschamp had all the talent in the world. Still sucked major donkey butt. Sometimes being a good DC doesn't translate to being a good coach. And so far our team's preparation and the in game coaching/adjustments/clock management has been the poorest of the poor.
All I'm saying is this is a make or break year for stoops. If we get the same results we got last season. Then he's obviously not cut out for the job. What's not to understand about that is beyond me. He looks like he's way in over his head on the sidelines. And much of the time just looks lost, especially considering he doesn't make in game adjustments. Just because we're finishing 11-13 and maybe the occasional 10 every year in the SEC recruiting rankings doesn't guarantee success. You're gonna have to coach your players up if you finish in the bottom 4th of your conference recruiting rankings every year or at least average out in the bottom 4th. You can have all the talent in the world and still suck, and that's the thing we'll never have all the talent in the world like Muschamp had at UF.
So maybe. Just maybe. Stoops sucks. Maybe he's just a bad HC and needs to go back to DC'ing when it's all said and done. We'll know answer at this season's conclusion. But as far as year 3 went, he looked like a first year head coach as much as a first year head coach can look like in his 3rd year. That's a very bad sign. Our special teams were the worst I've ever seen. The hiring of Dawson was just a downright terrible uneducated hire on stoops end (he had never OC'd a D-1 game in his entire life). We many times were disorganized and out of position before the snap on defense. Stoops may very well be the worst HC in the SEC to ever coach a game at this point. And considering the fact we average out in the bottom 4th of the SEC recruiting rankings on top of that. If you're not getting the best players you're going to have to coach them up, look at Brooks and what he did with wayyyyyy less talent (if you judge talent by star ratings). And maybe, just maybe. Stoops isn't the man for the job. I know that's hard for a lot of you to get a grasp of. Many were in denial about BCG (in merrimen's case joker phillips) being the wrong man for the hire. It's ok. Anyone who dons the blue and white is the man for the job no matter what til it reaches joker-esque levels. There's always gonna be those people.
The knowledge I provide for you merrimen is free. Don't worry. Just because stoops is UK's head coach doesn't automatically make him a good head coach even though that is what you believe. You know how you thought joker was going to get it done after everyone gave up on him? Just because they're coaching at UK doesn't make them great. Had we invested this money that we promised Brooks instead of stoops. We would've never had to hire an unproven head coach like stoops who still looks like a first year, first game head coach. Unfortunately MB waited til we got a very shaky HC to invest money as apposed to doing so when things were good under Brooks.
When a team quits that's on the players. It may be a lack of maturity, lack of numbers or lack of character. You can do something about the first two with time.
What some don't take into consideration is that a whole unit doesn't quit. Just one or two have to lay down to affect the plays. Doesn't always have to be the same one or two.
With numbers you don't have to play the weak ones. Right now we don't have that luxury.
You have no clue what it takes roster wise to compete in the sec. We where getting beat by 40 points by Vanderbilt and missouri jokers last year. That should tell you how awful the roster was. Stoops inherited 4 scholarship olineman 3 scholarship wr. The worst corners and safeties in p5. The fact he took that roster to be able to compete with most sec teans in year 2 is a miracle. Obviously you know dick about football thats ok but quit spreading your uneducated bs to the posters who dont know any better.
First, I have never said Stoops was a proven coach. So don't know where you are getting that. Making stuff up again I guess.
Secondly, I keep seeing you say we had the wrong play defensively to stop the read option, yet you never care to share what we were running exactly. Also, you never said anything about what adjustments were made, or what you would have done differently. If you don't think coaches were trying to adjust to stop it, then you really are clueless. All coaches, evendors bad ones adjust. They simply aren't ignorant enough to just kept doing what is not working. So please, enlighten us all with your knowledge. Explain what we were running and what adjustments should have been made.
Thirdly, again, you act like the other coaches in the league are ignorant. All of these posters who think you just out scheme other teams are delusional. Again, there is a reason that recruiting is so important. Yes, you can adjust to make yourself have the greatest amount of success possible. But just like any sport, the team with the best players win the majority of a time for a reason. These guys didnt get where they are by being football dumb. They all understand schemes and adjustments.
One thing Stoops has proven is his ability to recruit and to hire a staff that can as well. Is it top SEC recruiting? No, but it is a hell of a lot better than what we have seen in quite some time. He has also proven that he will make changers to try to improve out team, even if that means firing a guy or kicking someone off the team. So yes, he is proven in many areas. Now we have to see if those things will pay off with wins.
Excuse me sir. What did I post that was uneducated? All I said was stoops hasn't proven a damn thing. At all. Not a single effing thing. You think stoops would be getting these recruits had we not invested the money? Please don't credit stoops for everything like all the other stoops apologists. Had we invested the money when Brooks was here we would've been getting the same if not better recruits. So please for the love of God. Check your facts. Look at the recruiting room Brooks/Phillips had to deal with in comparison to stoops. 5-14 in last 19 games without a single win over a winning team. Those are facts. Nothing uneducated about those facts. He hired a first time OC and gave him his first play calling gig as an SEC OC!!! That was a disaster waiting to happen. What about how bad the special teams were?
So my post was uneducated so I'm guessing our special teams were decent and whatever issues we had are jokers fault? Ok. Sure man. I'm sorry but we could've hired a half blind orangutan and they would've done a better job than joker. You think we were competing this past season? In stoops THIRD YEAR??? I didn't see us competing. In the last 19 games we're 5-14 without a single win vs a team with a winning record, yet you believe stoops has proven himself as a good HC? Maybe you saw something I didn't thru your blue tinted goggles. What about the terrible game preperation? Or the terrible game management. Oh at least we did well at clock management right? Or did we? What about the read option defense? If you think stoops is a good coach because we invested money in football then your mistaken. We wouldn't be getting any of these recruits had we not invested money. And even so. What has stoops proven as far as an HC goes?
Im tired of people like you spewing your 'stoops is a good, proven HC' crap all over this board. What he he proven? Please tell me? You saw a coach on the sidelines last season that looked composed and looked like someone that knew what he was doing? I'm sorry but stoops looked lost on the sidelines last season. Muschamp had all the talent in the world and still sucked. We'll never have all the talent in the word and I haven't seen a damn thing to suggest Muschamp is a better HC than stoops. And btw hD joker had moment put into the program. He wouldn't have been half as bad as he was. Listen. Just because stoops has more resources than any coach at UK has ever had. Doesn't make him good. Doesn't make some miracle worker like many make him out to be because these recruits he's getting rank between 11-13 in the SEC. So what? He's all of a sudden a miracle worker because we get the 11-12th ranked recruits in the SEC? Since our recruits are in the bottom portion of the SEC. That means someone is going to have to coach them up.
And please for the love of god tell me what you've seen out of stoops that suggests he can coach these players up? Did you watch stoops re-enter towles in the vandy game after barker outplayed him by a million? Barker on the sidelines looked as confused as could be. The broadcaster assigned to the game were ripping stoops a new one for putting towles back in with a stat line of 5-17, 38 yards, 0 TD and 1 INT in the endzone on a run play that towles audibles into a pass play and threw into tripple coverage from the one yard line. You don't see a problem with the coaches giving towles that kind of power to audible out of run from the 1 yard line? Pure craziness. Our read option defense wasn't the worst you've ever seen? Please man. Stop spewing you 'stoops is a proven HC' crap on this board. You're making our fanbase look very uneducated with your claims that stoops is proven. Because he hasn't proven a damn thing. Not a single effing thing. Like what he he proven? That UK can recruit with top notch facilities? I bet joker would've been a way better recruiter has he jd top notch facilities. But no the recruiting room joker was working with was a room with a bunch of metal chairs, some tables and a TV. As supposed to the state of the art recruiting room stoops has. There is nothing impressive about stoops getting talent here given the facilities, he's not a miracle worker because he has resources coaches here have never had. He's a good recruiter. Nothing special though. He can offer PT to to young talent and can offer top notch facilities. What other UK coach has has that as a recruiting pitch?
So yea there's nothing impressive about where we are now compared to the joker days. Joker didn't have a single resource to work with. Stoops has every resource. Certainly makes his job a lot easier as far as recruiting goes. So as far as the players go it was expected regardless of who the HC is. But can he coach them? He's proven to you that he can coach a helluva game? Where people get this ish from idk. All I know is with the resources we have now. A blind orangutan could've fielded a better team than joker. Is that saying a lot or something? In jokers last season to this past season we've gone from 2 wins to 5 wins. IN 4 YEARS!!! And you're over here acting like he sa miracle working, proven HC. When he is most likely the worst HC in the SEC to HC a game. Sorry that I know football way more than you. That's what state championship rings as a starting defensive end get you in life. You learn a thing or 2 about the game when having legendary coaches coach you. And what I can tell you is. Given all the top notch facilities. No matter who the coach was, even a monkey, we would've recruited at a level never seen before here. Is that stoops doing or the university's for putting money into it? Ok and why was Brooks winning with way less talented players than what stoops had in his 3rd year during a time where Brooks had .00001% the resources that stoops had? Was it because Brooks is a proven, great coach that would've brought us to greatness had we invested the money then? Yes! And tell me what makes stoops a proven, good coach? Why doesn't he have to prove himself this season in year 4? Why is it no matter how bad we do he should feel no heat regardless this season? It's because he's proven apparently but I want to know.
What has stoops actually proven as far as a head coach goes? What on the sidelines ha he done to prove he's a good HC? When you answer that. If you can give me a valid answer. I want to know exactly what I said was 'uneducated'? I mean we had the worst special teams ever. The most unprepared team I've ever seen, the worst read option defense I've ever seen, and he hired a OC who's first D-1 OC job was in the SEFREAKINGC! Not only that we never once made halftime or in game adjustments like our opponents did which was why we got torched in the 2nd half of every game. Seriously coaches were coaching circles around stoops during halftimes last season. Making adjustments while stoops wasn't making ANY adjustments. What did he exactly prove last season besides the fact that given our schedule was a million times easier in year 3 compared to year 2 and finished with same record? We actually regressed last season in comparison to year 2. I guess that's the sign of a good HC right?
Well, this thread has wandered all over the place...
First of all, to the OP...
No. A 5 win season this year will not get him fired but will create enough heat and pressure to create a diamond in 2017
Andrei, you have said this time and time again (and I believe twice in this thread...
Just what IS the right scheme against a good read option attack?
Grumpy, excellent points about the coach adjusting to what he has not just running what he wants. It is hard to do "what you want to do" every year. I have often alluded to doing more with less and that flexibility is one of the common characteristics of those that do.
3kids says...
With the clear exception of Joker, just about every new UK coach since Charlie Bradshaw has inherited a mess from his predecessor. That is why he became the new coach. But other than John Ray, all that stayed 4 years or more had at least a 6 win season by their 4th year. IIRC, Ray was the DC on Parsehian's highly ranked ND teams and one of the top assistants in the country. I'm sure Stoops wants John Ray comparisons to end there. [winking]
Peace
First of all, to the OP...
No. A 5 win season this year will not get him fired but will create enough heat and pressure to create a diamond in 2017
Andrei, you have said this time and time again (and I believe twice in this thread...
Just what IS the right scheme against a good read option attack?
Grumpy, excellent points about the coach adjusting to what he has not just running what he wants. It is hard to do "what you want to do" every year. I have often alluded to doing more with less and that flexibility is one of the common characteristics of those that do.
3kids says...
With the clear exception of Joker, just about every new UK coach since Charlie Bradshaw has inherited a mess from his predecessor. That is why he became the new coach. But other than John Ray, all that stayed 4 years or more had at least a 6 win season by their 4th year. IIRC, Ray was the DC on Parsehian's highly ranked ND teams and one of the top assistants in the country. I'm sure Stoops wants John Ray comparisons to end there. [winking]
Peace
No matter who we hired as HC. We were going to recruit at a higher level than we ever have. It could be a monkey as HC and we would be recruiting at a level never before seen here. That's what happens when you invest money and get top notch facilities across the board. I'm sorry. But had Brooks had the money invested. His recruiting would've been the best of all time at UK. He has not proven to be a great recruiter. He has top notch facilities and when you can offer PT and top notch facilities. You'll get recruits. No other UK coach in our history has had those resources. No matter who we hired. Leach, BP. Anyone. No matter who the next coach was they were going to bring in the best recruiting classes we've ever had. If stoops had the resources that joker and Brooks had. I guarantee you he would've done no better than them as far as recruiting goes. But we have top notch resources. And you're going to credit stoops for that? Lol. As I said. Clueless you are. People keep saying stoops is recruiting at a level never before seen. It don't matter who we brought in as HC. We were going to start getting better recruits than ever before no matter what with these facilities. That's what state of the art facilities gets you. Better recruits. And people want to credit stoops for being a mastermind recruiter as if anyone else with the same resources couldn't have done it or something. A monkey. Would've brought in the best recruits we've ever had with these resources. He's not a miracle worker. The university decided to invest money. In return. Better players were going to want to play here. Regardless of who the coach was. And you give all that credit to stoops? Just stop man please you're making our fanbase look football illiterate.
If he had the resources he would've won much bigger because he would've had better talent than stoops has now across the board. Just imagine had we invested the money in Brooks? He would've had the talent we have now if not much better. And we would've had a proven HC who knows how to coach.
You're joking right? The correct scheme is to have your DE go after either the HB or QB every single time. Not just sit there and wait to see what the qb does. Because once he hands the ball off the DE is out of the play since he waited the whole time to see what was going to happen therefor taking him out the play.. So usually you have your DE assigned to the QB. And you assign an OLB to watch the HB and make sure he doesn't get free. It's quite simple really. We just put our DE out there and let him ball watch and when you're ball watching you might as well concede the play and give up big yards. The DE HAS to go after either the qb or Hb as soon as the ball is snapped. If you don't do that you're doomed. And that's what happened, every single time. We had our players reacting as apposed to initiating. It's not as hard of a play to stop as the coaches made it out to be. We got burnt on it every time and it was because we never made adjustments. We always had our DE ball watching. As apposed to assigning him a player. Which doomed us. It was very hard and sad to watch as far as our read option defense was. If you think we handled that play accordingly. Then you need help. I'm saying IF you think we hNdled the read option accordingly. did you see EKU rip us a new one in the read option? Obviously we were doing something wrong schematically. If you don't believe it then wow.
You just summed up your entire knowledge when you said it isn't a hard play to stop. I guess all these coaches are dumb and you aren't. Does Saban not know how to coach? I ask this because that has been his biggest struggle. Those read option teams have always given him fits. Man, you should be in the big time coaching world.with that knowledge.