Will the last person leaving the CPS turn off the lights?

[ignazio]

Team Englewood, Harper, Fenger, Hirsch, Douglass, Robeson, Marshall, Manley, Bowen, Gage Park, Hope and Bronzeville - all less than 10% capacity.
LINK

Robeson High School - 148 students, but 38 full-time employees (average of $104,512 in compensation, a total of $3,165,215 in salary and benefits, plus an additional $806,246 in taxpayer-funded pension contributions)
LINK

 

[Brin22]

I wouldn't want to be Karen Lewis, especially with Ms. DeVos on the prowl.

 

[i011763]

Team Englewood, Harper, Fenger, Hirsch, Douglass, Robeson, Marshall, Manley, Bowen, Gage Park, Hope and Bronzeville - all less than 10% capacity.
LINK

Robeson High School - 148 students, but 38 full-time employees (average of $104,512 in compensation, a total of $3,165,215 in salary and benefits, plus an additional $806,246 in taxpayer-funded pension contributions)
LINK

With a staff to student ratio of 3.89 you would exect that there could be some great learning going on in that school

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

3-1? that's incredible.....in the strictest sense of the word.

 

[Normdog]

Forget the fixed and variable cost of the buildings and property, the cost of instruction alone is $26,834 per student. The students obviously are being instructed by the top education experts in the country.

 

[PowerI66_]

Forget the fixed and variable cost of the buildings and property, the cost of instruction alone is $26,834 per student. The students obviously are being instructed by the top education experts in the country.

Not disagreeing with you, but cost of living should be taken into account as well.

 

[UlbKA91]

Not disagreeing with you, but cost of living should be taken into account as well.

Today is a date that lives in infamy, so let us remember and thank those who serve, have served and experienced the wages of sacrifice.

Within the confines of CPS personnel, November 20, 1996 is a significant date in that it subjected new CPS hires thereafter to City residency rules - that cost of living argument was an own goal in that it made the sympathetic case for starting salary, masters adjustments and seniority steps to remain high e.g. pay enough money for teachers to avoid the neighborhoods which many of these underutilized schools serve.

 

[PowerI66_]

Today is a date that lives in infamy, so let us remember and thank those who serve, have served and experienced the wages of sacrifice.

Within the confines of CPS personnel, November 20, 1996 is a significant date in that it subjected new CPS hires thereafter to City residency rules - that cost of living argument was an own goal in that it made the sympathetic case for starting salary, masters adjustments and seniority steps to remain high e.g. pay enough money for teachers to avoid the neighborhoods which many of these underutilized schools serve.

How much do you think teachers should make? We will be more specific and refer to high school teachers.

 

[ignazio]

How much do you think teachers should make? We will be more specific and refer to high school teachers.

If you consider the end result of teaching to be learning, would it be beyond consideration that evidence of learning be used when making this calculation?

 

[PowerI66_]

If you consider the end result of teaching to be learning, would it be beyond consideration that evidence of learning be used when making this calculation?

Yes, and to a degree now it is. However, it's a difficult thing to quantify. You can teach your head off, but not all kids want to learn no matter what you do.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Team Englewood, Harper, Fenger, Hirsch, Douglass, Robeson, Marshall, Manley, Bowen, Gage Park, Hope and Bronzeville - all less than 10% capacity.
LINK

Robeson High School - 148 students, but 38 full-time employees (average of $104,512 in compensation, a total of $3,165,215 in salary and benefits, plus an additional $806,246 in taxpayer-funded pension contributions)
LINK

Food for thought:

Most Chicago High Schools lie on how many students attend on a given day. A couple of years ago a student was killed in September near Gage park High School. But he was shown as in attendance at Bowen High Schools till late spring.

Remember teachers are off all holidays, two weeks at Christmas, clean up week, and all summer. If you calculate the rate per hour they put firefighter, paramedics, and police officers to shame. Teachers also only pay 2% of their gross to their pensions while the other city employees all pay in excess of 9%. Holding the kids as hostages during the threat of a strike and excessive political campaign contributions keep the elected officials in their corner. They should not be allowed to strike but have to submit to arbitration like all first responders.

Take Phillips High School which has half the students from a decade ago but the teaching staff is still the same size.

What happens to High School football if the new head of the Department of Education pushes Charter Schools? Boarder less schools?

What happens to High School football if the new head of the Department of Education pushes schools vouchers over the next ten years. While not religious nor have I ever attended a private school one must admit the private schools do a better job in Chicago of educating city kids - De La Salle/Dunbar, Mount Carmel/Bowen, St. Rita/Julian, Brother Rice/Bogan, Taft/St. Pats....

 

[UlbKA91]

Food for thought:

Most Chicago High Schools lie on how many students attend on a given day. A couple of years ago a student was killed in September near Gage park High School. But he was shown as in attendance at Bowen High Schools till late spring.

Remember teachers are off all holidays, two weeks at Christmas, clean up week, and all summer. If you calculate the rate per hour they put firefighter, paramedics, and police officers to shame. Teachers also only pay 2% of their gross to their pensions while the other city employees all pay in excess of 9%. Holding the kids as hostages during the threat of a strike and excessive political campaign contributions keep the elected officials in their corner. They should not be allowed to strike but have to submit to arbitration like all first responders.

Take Phillips High School which has half the students from a decade ago but the teaching staff is still the same size.

What happens to High School football if the new head of the Department of Education pushes Charter Schools? Boarder less schools?

What happens to High School football if the new head of the Department of Education pushes schools vouchers over the next ten years. While not religious nor have I ever attended a private school one must admit the private schools do a better job in Chicago of educating city kids - De La Salle/Dunbar, Mount Carmel/Bowen, St. Rita/Julian, Brother Rice/Bogan, Taft/St. Pats....

Demand will easily strip supply, especially if the vast % of per-pupil cost is covered by a voucher - is this the lifeline for Leo, Hales, Holy Trinity (the school by Division/Ashland, not River Forest), DPP, and LuNorth?

As for football, I think Phillips and more recently Solorio and Sarah Goode are the model - a limited # of schools offering the sport - a Football Academy - serving a larger district (existing powers like Simeon, Curie, MP might stay on, but admissions will be similar to that of the AUSL/Noble networks). Of course that should entail a multiplier but I'm not sure to what exact magnitude between the range of "district" where all H.S. students in that area are accounted even if they do not attend the grounds of designated Football Academy (obviously 8A up, which may become a defacto "urban" bracket when combined with Morton, EA, Wauk, Elgin etc.), or should it be a fractional differential representing the difference between say a 6 mile radius or shed and the 30 mile radius allowed of privates.

 

[woody6]

If you consider the end result of teaching to be learning, would it be beyond consideration that evidence of learning be used when making this calculation?

And how would this "evidence of learning" be measured to assess pay and/or re-hiring? ACT? PSAE? PARCC? - all discarded! After 34 years spent in an academic classroom in a diverse public suburban HS, too many major external factors exist to tie student achievement to almost anything regarding teacher performance. Not an excuse, just a fact. All students can learn, but certainly not the same "amount." Do we expect all students to free bench 150% of their body weight? Imagine the war over what courses one would teach if straight achievement became the measuring stick. How about some more objective measures like teacher attendance or time spent before/after school hours with students in a tutoring, coaching or sponsorship setting, to mention a couple. Many people point to the extreme difficulty removing poor teachers due to tenure or union protection. Lazy or weak administrators use that as an excuse, because means, formal and informal, exist to make such happen.

 

[PowerI66_]

I shall address this ramblin style.

Remember teachers are off all holidays, two weeks at Christmas, clean up week, and all summer.

Yes, we do nothing as a teaching profession during any of this time period. No planning, buying of materials, professional development, etc. We just show up and everything goes to plan!

If you calculate the rate per hour they put firefighter, paramedics, and police officers to shame.

Rates per those professions based on a BA 0 salary.
Teacher = $50,653 with a jump to $51,588 in year 2. Year 1 rate per hr is $30.44/hr (http://www.ctunet.com/blog/text/TA_for_CTU_Vote.pdf)
Firefighter = $57,978 with a jump to $68,796 in year 2. Year 1 rate per hour (assuming 240 hours per month) is $20.13 (https://www.cityofchicago.org/conte...sification/2015-2016_Schedule_A-8.31.2015.pdf)
Paramedic = Too many salary schedules to verify (https://www.cityofchicago.org/conte...sification/2015-2016_Schedule_A-8.31.2015.pdf)
Officer = $46, 668 with a jump to $66,606 in year 2. Year 1 rate (assuming 48 hours per week) is $18.69/hr.(https://www.cityofchicago.org/conte...sification/2015-2016_Schedule_A-8.31.2015.pdf)

Now if I did year two, the teacher vs the rest changes drastically. Also, for a teacher, there is no down time in an 8 hour day besides lunch. Counter argument, the others are more dangerous jobs. However, teachers work (at least the good ones) on weekends, stay after school, and work during the "summers off." So basically your rate per hour holds no water.

Teachers also only pay 2% of their gross to their pensions while the other city employees all pay in excess of 9%.

Somebody better let TRS know. I've been getting screwed: https://trs.illinois.gov/employers/payments/contributions.htm

While not religious nor have I ever attended a private school one must admit the private schools do a better job in Chicago of educating city kids - De La Salle/Dunbar, Mount Carmel/Bowen, St. Rita/Julian, Brother Rice/Bogan, Taft/St. Pats....

In Chicago, maybe? You also have to take into account that those other schools get tested into. That dramatically effects the "type" of kid you are getting in an academic sense. Just like how as a police officer, you are going to have a different job situation in a gated community than in section 8 housing.

Here's what I'm saying, I VERY much respect all of our professions. I just get frustrated when one starts putting down the other. I don't know what you go through every day, and you don't know what I do. Now I realize this is not the case for every teacher. Just as there are bad cops, paramedics, and firefighters there bad teachers. I just have a huge issue when all of the sudden people start making it seem like the grass is so green in the public education sector. Also, I don't teach in CPS (full disclosure), but I do have friends that do.

 

[TeeOH_rivals219717]

I shall address this ramblin style.


Yes, we do nothing as a teaching profession during any of this time period. No planning, buying of materials, professional development, etc. We just show up and everything goes to plan!


Rates per those professions based on a BA 0 salary.
Teacher = $50,653 with a jump to $51,588 in year 2. Year 1 rate per hr is $30.44/hr (http://www.ctunet.com/blog/text/TA_for_CTU_Vote.pdf)
Firefighter = $57,978 with a jump to $68,796 in year 2. Year 1 rate per hour (assuming 240 hours per month) is $20.13 (https://www.cityofchicago.org/conte...sification/2015-2016_Schedule_A-8.31.2015.pdf)
Paramedic = Too many salary schedules to verify (https://www.cityofchicago.org/conte...sification/2015-2016_Schedule_A-8.31.2015.pdf)
Officer = $46, 668 with a jump to $66,606 in year 2. Year 1 rate (assuming 48 hours per week) is $18.69/hr.(https://www.cityofchicago.org/conte...sification/2015-2016_Schedule_A-8.31.2015.pdf)

Now if I did year two, the teacher vs the rest changes drastically. Also, for a teacher, there is no down time in an 8 hour day besides lunch. Counter argument, the others are more dangerous jobs. However, teachers work (at least the good ones) on weekends, stay after school, and work during the "summers off." So basically your rate per hour holds no water.


Somebody better let TRS know. I've been getting screwed: https://trs.illinois.gov/employers/payments/contributions.htm


In Chicago, maybe? You also have to take into account that those other schools get tested into. That dramatically effects the "type" of kid you are getting in an academic sense. Just like how as a police officer, you are going to have a different job situation in a gated community than in section 8 housing.

Here's what I'm saying, I VERY much respect all of our professions. I just get frustrated when one starts putting down the other. I don't know what you go through every day, and you don't know what I do. Now I realize this is not the case for every teacher. Just as there are bad cops, paramedics, and firefighters there bad teachers. I just have a huge issue when all of the sudden people start making it seem like the grass is so green in the public education sector. Also, I don't teach in CPS (full disclosure), but I do have friends that do.

I don't think the big issue is the salaries of the teachers but the fact that there are so many teaching so few students. Operating schools at 10% of their capacity is not sustainable. There is a long overdue consolidation needed that the teachers union has fought tooth and nail so they don't lose positions. (and power) Responsibility to the tax payer not the teachers Union needs to rule the day. And if I hear one more time ..."it's for the children"...i'm gonna puke

 

[Bwm57]

Ignazio,
Have you ever seen Union District 81 in Joliet?
This is a tiny K-8 district on the edge of New Lenox and Joliet.
When I say tiny, 113 students, TOTAL, in all of the grades.
The Superintendent's salary is listed on the IBSE site as $151,000 per year now.
http://www.illinoisreportcard.com/District.aspx?source=admins&Districtid=56099081002
That works out to be a cool $1,336 PER STUDENT, just to pay the Superintendent.
There are a lot of other pieces of this smelly morass that I won't get into here.
Your tax dollars at work!!

 

[Cross Bones]

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.r...dUSKBN13V08B?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

I'll just place this here while idiots argue we spend too much on education.

 

[WIU@78]

Brian if I didn't know better I would think you were married to Ann.

 

[Bwm57]

Brian if I didn't know better I would think you were married to Ann.

And if I didn't know better I would think you were Mayor B.

 

[WIU@78]

Just curious how a CPS thread comes around to the mayor of New Lenox. Maybe the conspiracy theory extends past the closing of LW North now? I believe Crossbones has shed some light on wasted funds other than education. As stated before there were many errors made to get LW to four schools and EDGY believes it will eventually be down to two. I do know you Bwm and we have spoken but I am not a mayor.

 

[TeeOH_rivals219717]

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.r...dUSKBN13V08B?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

I'll just place this here while idiots argue we spend too much on education.

It's the wasted dollars that are intolerable in ANY public institution. Be it education or defense. I for one think we spend to much on things that don't educate a child. Why does Illinois need hundreds of school districts (653 i think) each with it's own administrative fiefdom that take dollars out of the classroom and activities.
Because the needs in Addison and Villa park are so different then the needs in Lombard and Glendale Heights? Ridiculous unnecessary duplication of effort.

 

[Cross Bones]

It's the wasted dollars that are intolerable in ANY public institution. Be it education or defense. I for one think we spend to much on things that don't educate a child. Why does Illinois need hundreds of school districts (653 i think) each with it's own administrative fiefdom that take dollars out of the classroom and activities.
Because the needs in Addison and Villa park are so different then the needs in Lombard and Glendale Heights? Ridiculous unnecessary duplication of effort.

A lot of things can be streamlined, thats for sure. However, it gets tiring to see/hear peoole complain and whine obout things that amount to nickels and ignore the 125 billion dollars right in their faces.

Look I have never stepped foot in a CPS for anything other than a sporting event. I dont know what their issues are. I do know they have plenty of them, as do rural schools which seem to be closing in bunches. It seems like in America if you dont live in a suburb or fork over thousands of dollars your educational opportunities arent going to put you in the best position to succeed. Couple that with the attacks on other programs designed to help people who werent lucky enough to be born into the best parts of society and we're talking about some dire situations.

And people want to talk about over funding education instead of our war machine. Its like people want to see what happens when large swaths of the population are hopeless. What happens when education is all but gone with opportunities to move up and these guns are even more prevalent? Think its bad now?

 

[TeeOH_rivals219717]

A lot of things can be streamlined, thats for sure. However, it gets tiring to see/hear peoole complain and whine obout things that amount to nickels and ignore the 125 billion dollars right in their faces.

Look I have never stepped foot in a CPS for anything other than a sporting event. I dont know what their issues are. I do know they have plenty of them, as do rural schools which seem to be closing in bunches. It seems like in America if you dont live in a suburb or fork over thousands of dollars your educational opportunities arent going to put you in the best position to succeed. Couple that with the attacks on other programs designed to help people who werent lucky enough to be born into the best parts of society and we're talking about some dire situations.

And people want to talk about over funding education instead of our war machine. Its like people want to see what happens when large swaths of the population are hopeless. What happens when education is all but gone with opportunities to move up and these guns are even more prevalent? Think its bad now?

While i agree there are many issue. Let's stick with the education in Illinois for the time being the other issue would take many pages about cause and effect etc that have nothing to do about football.
But a very realistic case can be made that there are 225 million dollars that can be saved in Administrative salaries by consolidation. Throw in the pension savings and 300 million is not unreasonable estimate. Hardly nickles Take half of the savings to plow back into front line education and the other half to payoff some of the pension shortfalls (Still work needed to be done there) and you can save money and positively enhance the education of those most in need. But first we have to really put the kids first not unions administrations politicians etc

 

[Bwm57]

Just curious how a CPS thread comes around to the mayor of New Lenox. Maybe the conspiracy theory extends past the closing of LW North now? I believe Crossbones has shed some light on wasted funds other than education. As stated before there were many errors made to get LW to four schools and EDGY believes it will eventually be down to two. I do know you Bwm and we have spoken but I am not a mayor.

Ironically it is you, not me, who is bringing in the specifics of the people involved with the situation in Union School District 81.
Maybe you should read the thread again?
Ignazio posted a thread about wasteful spending of tax dollars within the Chicago schools, I then mentioned another district which has 113 total students in the district, yet they are paying the superintendent over $150,000 per year in salary.
That's not including whatever they might be paying in benefits or pension payments, so there is a good chance the total is really considerably higher.
That district spends over $22,000 per student. Feel free to check the student outcomes.
I think that is a situation which is worth looking into as a taxpayer.
Also, you also always seem to want to connect me with "Ann".
I think over the past year you have called me a follower of Ann, an Ann lover and now apparently I sound like I might be her husband.
Just as an FYI, I do of course know who Ann is, but I don't believe that I have actually ever met her or even spoken to her in person.
If you think I have been getting my information from her you would have that all completely backwards.
Regarding the goings on in LW 210, which again you brought up not me, yeah I'm pissed about the misspending of our tax dollars.
I'm going to continue to try to hold those responsible for what has happened in the past accountible and to hopefully help to create a situation where this doesn't happen again in the future with our money.
You may want to ignore what has gone on, but when you have a situation where there is an active FBI and SEC investigation going on I'm going to say there maybe something to this...
From memory the things that have bothered you over the past year or so have been, "rude parents in the stands" and that the public was "ruining people's lives".
It's nice that you know me, then you will know that my kids are older and not even in the district anymore, so I'm strictly a taxpayer in this situation.
You will also know that I'm still involved with one of the youth organizations that feeds those HS football programs and was all the way back in the glory days you like to reference too.
I don't know how much of this you want to rehash, I guess I will take your lead on that.

 

[WIU@78]

Br.the thread heading reads CPS. You have provided the novel. Your son knows AJ'a very well. My original complaint was when the nut job generated a weekend of "transfer" questions and issues for LW athletes sitting a year because of the changes. You can vent by voting in April. CPS. It is clear your intention was to further the crusade and your emotions and actions regarding LW from your post. NL and FOIA.

 

[ignazio]

PowerI66:
Two points: SouthsideCFD mentioned the 2% pension contribution. That is the Chicago public school teacher's contribution - the taxpayers have been picking up the balance. When you point out that the same is not the case for those in TRS - you further our point: it isn't enough.
Second, you concede there are bad teachers. I haven't suggested a merit system where the only metric is standardized test scores. Further, I haven't suggested a system whereby only dismissal is the only remedy. But since you have, why don't you tell us an assessment system for teachers that uses no objective data and also remediation process where there is no pay or employment difference?

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

My post was food for thought. Sorry if you thought I was talking about teachers outside of Chicago. Teachers would get Hazzard pay here but there are at least 2 CPD assigned to every high school in the city. Most grade schools use LSC funds to have CPD at schools every day.

Enrollment at most high schools is 30-40 % lower in May then it was in October. But school funding is based upon attendance.

You have no idea how many CPS football games get called early at Gatley because of running clocks and gang problems. Paramedics are too busy to sit at games in Chicago so CFD assigns us. Not a bad gig if the football is good.

Question? School vouchers for 50% of the actual costs to educate a student at CPS.

 

[Cross Bones]

Found some interesting articles how the CFD is costing the city millions of dollars in lawsuits. wonder what SOUTHSIDECFD will say when I post them.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Found some interesting articles how the CFD is costing the city millions of dollars in lawsuits. wonder what SOUTHSIDECFD will say when I post them.

Post them all!
I don't ever defend clowns no matter what profession.
Personal responsibility was my dad's #1 rule.
You make a decision good or bad you live with it.

But you have to admit the worst run agency in Chicago is the CPS with the CTU as the number one cause? When I moved to Chicago after the service CVS and Lane Tech were on pair with anyone in the state on the football field. Now look at them. Most schools JV teams can beat them.

 

[pjjp]

But first we have to really put the kids first not unions administrations politicians etc

Agree with this 100%. Public sector unions (schools, municipalities etc.) and the many state and local politicians who represent their interests need a reminder who they should actually be serving.

 

[Cross Bones]

Post them all!
I don't ever defend clowns no matter what profession.
Personal responsibility was my dad's #1 rule.
You make a decision good or bad you live with it.

But you have to admit the worst run agency in Chicago is the CPS with the CTU as the number one cause? When I moved to Chicago after the service CVS and Lane Tech were on pair with anyone in the state on the football field. Now look at them. Most schools JV teams can beat them.

Name an organization that could cost its employer and tax payers over half a billion dollars in a decade (with nothing to show for it but dead bodies) and I'll show you the worst run agency, you can distribute the blame where you like.

 

[mc140]

The fireman who works about 96 days a year with 2/3 of that time spent hanging out at the fire house is complaining about teacher pay?

 

[Normdog]

I'm not a fireman and I grumble about my taxes, but, 20+ years ago when I lived in the city (Galewood) a house 3 doors down had a fire, the type of fire that flames were coming out of the basement windows and first floor windows like a blow torch, it sounded just like a blow torch also. it was the middle of the day, we were alerted to it by the screaming. As we went outside and saw the fire, the first firetruck pulled up as it was still moving two firemen SPRINTED off of the truck one with a pick ax the other with an ax both had air tanks on. They sprinted across the front yard, never slowed down and sprinted thru the front door which was shooting out thick black smoke. No water, no hoses just them and their axes running into literally a house with blowtorches coming out each window, because the dispatcher had been told there might be a child still in the house. four or five minutes later they came back out empty handed, turns out there was no one left in the house. By then the hoses were out and water put on, fire put out about 20 minutes later.

it was one of the bravest if not bravest things I had ever seen. No hesitation what so ever. I can still see it as vividly as if it was yesterday. People always talk about how they sit around, right up until they need them at their own house. These are the guys that literally run into what every human instinct tells the rest of us to run away from. I honestly don't give a crap they "sit" around.

For what they are paid, especially in the city where they also get to contend with a lot of "peachy" neighborhoods on top of the fire danger they deserve to be thanked. Repeatedly. Are there some slackers? Probably, just like any large organization. If you ever need them, on probably what will be one of the, if not the, worst day of your life, they will be running towards you to help.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

The fireman who works about 96 days a year with 2/3 of that time spent hanging out at the fire house is complaining about teacher pay?

Agreed. I was blessed!!!

But if the CPS did a better job there would not be 700 homicides this year and counting. People would be going to college and not selling drugs. CPS may have the highest dropout rate in any urban area.

Think about the football programs if the schools kept students for all four years in a safe learning environment.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

I'm not a fireman and I grumble about my taxes, but, 20+ years ago when I lived in the city (Galewood) a house 3 doors down had a fire, the type of fire that flames were coming out of the basement windows and first floor windows like a blow torch, it sounded just like a blow torch also. it was the middle of the day, we were alerted to it by the screaming. As we went outside and saw the fire, the first firetruck pulled up as it was still moving two firemen SPRINTED off of the truck one with a pick ax the other with an ax both had air tanks on. They sprinted across the front yard, never slowed down and sprinted thru the front door which was shooting out thick black smoke. No water, no hoses just them and their axes running into literally a house with blowtorches coming out each window, because the dispatcher had been told there might be a child still in the house. four or five minutes later they came back out empty handed, turns out there was no one left in the house. By then the hoses were out and water put on, fire put out about 20 minutes later.

it was one of the bravest if not bravest things I had ever seen. No hesitation what so ever. I can still see it as vividly as if it was yesterday. People always talk about how they sit around, right up until they need them at their own house. These are the guys that literally run into what every human instinct tells the rest of us to run away from. I honestly don't give a crap they "sit" around.

For what they are paid, especially in the city where they also get to contend with a lot of "peachy" neighborhoods on top of the fire danger they deserve to be thanked. Repeatedly. Are there some slackers? Probably, just like any large organization. If you ever need them, on probably what will be one of the, if not the, worst day of your life, they will be running towards you to help.

Thank you but the kids overseas in uniform (all volunteers) and the city policemen get my respect too.

 

[Normdog]

Thank you but the kids overseas in uniform (all volunteers) and the city policemen get my respect too.

Agree with you on both. My point was specific to a specific comment made.

 

[PRokie]

What kills me is there are teachers that couldn't be paid enough for what they give our children!!! I mean real, awesome, life changing great educators!!!

then there are these ******** who spend every moment they can looking to rape the system, underperform, and we the people paying them can have ZERO say so!

How can someone literally EXPECT AND DEMAND to receive an pension they have put SO LITTLE into from a job with almost no REAL performance standards. Not to mention the people who pay their salaries have no way of ever knowing the reality of their performance, and even if we did, you couldn't get rid of them even if they suck!!

I feel horrible for the good ones... if we could only identify them without a union that thrives on protecting and rewarding mediocrity and under performers.

 

[Brin22]

personally, don't think parents get their share of the blame. teachers only with the kids a couple hours a day. schools not meant to raise kids.

 

[PRokie]

What kills me is there are teachers that couldn't be paid enough for what they give our children!!! I mean real, awesome, life changing great educators!!!

then there are these ******** who spend every moment they can looking to rape the system, underperform, and we the people paying them can have ZERO say so!

How can someone literally EXPECT AND DEMAND to receive an pension they have put SO LITTLE into from a job with almost no REAL performance standards. Not to mention the people who pay their salaries have no way of ever knowing the reality of their performance, and even if we did, you couldn't get rid of them even if they suck!!

I feel horrible for the good ones... if we could only identify them without a union that thrives on protecting and rewarding mediocrity and under performers.

FWIW... my cousin was a Fireman for 30+ years.
(Ret.) EVERY year, they repeatedly had performance tests they had to pass in order to be in the field. I don't remember the specifics of the tests other than thinking to myself "hell, these guys are studs!" He was over 50 when he retired. He had his years in, he didn't want to retire.

I asked him, why retire? You're in Cush central!!!

"I can't perform any more to standards, and that puts lives in danger"

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

FWIW... my cousin was a Fireman for 30+ years.
(Ret.)

"I can't perform any more to standards, and that puts lives in danger"

I play hand ball three days a week and I am not able to do it any more either at that level either. You cousin is the kind of guy that I would trust my six with thou.

I was not putting all teachers in same basket but w/o merit pay too many kids are failing, and yes parent/grandparents are dropping the ball.

Unions have a purpose but the CTU has gone to great levels to protect the worst 20% of which many are paid not to teacher but to sit in the faculty lounge all day long.

Now think what you could do with two more full-time football coaches and maybe three full time counselors if you got rid of 5 do nothings.