Well that just shows how great of a recruiter Mullen is. He only has 1 less 4 star player than Ole Miss committed and they haven't officially visited Msu yet. Way to go Dan. Who said this guy couldn't sell an eskimo ice cream?
Would you want this coach fired?
- Thread starter muddawgs
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Well that just shows how great of a recruiter Mullen is. He only has 1 less 4 star player than Ole Miss committed and they haven't officially visited Msu yet. Way to go Dan. Who said this guy couldn't sell an eskimo ice cream?
With Jackie, I never felt like we had a chance to win after the Florida game in 2001.
That 1996 season, we sandwiched that Alabama win between two losses to 4-7 teams. In SEC games we averaged 17 points per game. Those two wins at the end saved Jackie. Our recruiting for 1995 and 1996 was putrid. We would have fired him after 1996 if he hadn't saved his own *** by winning 2 of the last 3.
Changing assistants? What a tremendous amount of good that did! I mean, the differences in the offenses between Bruce Arians and Lynn Amedee and Sparky Woods and Morris Watts, so diverse. We weren't cleaning up a thing in recruiting in 1995 and 1996. It was the influx of all the JUCOs the next two years that set us on that run. The 1997 class with JJ Johnson, Randy Thomas, Ashley Cooper, Robert Bean, and Kevin Prentiss set the table. Once the JUCOs stopped coming in to us as the rest of the nation figured out JUCO recruiting was a positive, we fell apart. Nearly every high school player we signed from 1999-2003 ended up being a bust. Dontae Walker, the Thompsons, Kevin Fant, Antonio Hargro, Ray Ray Bivines, Bryan Shumaker, Johnathan Bell, Darren Williams, Nick Turner, Marvin Byrdsong, Jadice Moore, Demotto Youngblood, Keshaun Fudge, Zak West, Clarence McDougal, Coco Hodge, Markell Mckinley, Kamau Jackson, Tee Milons, Chris McNeil. Maybe we just define cleaning up differently, but how many NFL players did we have in those classes? 5 signing classes, over 100 players, maybe 10 guys in the NFL. That's cleaning up?
That 1996 season, we sandwiched that Alabama win between two losses to 4-7 teams. In SEC games we averaged 17 points per game. Those two wins at the end saved Jackie. Our recruiting for 1995 and 1996 was putrid. We would have fired him after 1996 if he hadn't saved his own *** by winning 2 of the last 3.
Changing assistants? What a tremendous amount of good that did! I mean, the differences in the offenses between Bruce Arians and Lynn Amedee and Sparky Woods and Morris Watts, so diverse. We weren't cleaning up a thing in recruiting in 1995 and 1996. It was the influx of all the JUCOs the next two years that set us on that run. The 1997 class with JJ Johnson, Randy Thomas, Ashley Cooper, Robert Bean, and Kevin Prentiss set the table. Once the JUCOs stopped coming in to us as the rest of the nation figured out JUCO recruiting was a positive, we fell apart. Nearly every high school player we signed from 1999-2003 ended up being a bust. Dontae Walker, the Thompsons, Kevin Fant, Antonio Hargro, Ray Ray Bivines, Bryan Shumaker, Johnathan Bell, Darren Williams, Nick Turner, Marvin Byrdsong, Jadice Moore, Demotto Youngblood, Keshaun Fudge, Zak West, Clarence McDougal, Coco Hodge, Markell Mckinley, Kamau Jackson, Tee Milons, Chris McNeil. Maybe we just define cleaning up differently, but how many NFL players did we have in those classes? 5 signing classes, over 100 players, maybe 10 guys in the NFL. That's cleaning up?
And if Sherrill had been fired in 95, coming off a good season in 94, we may not have a Western Division Championship. That he might have been fired by SEC teams nowadays doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been a horrible mistake. Which was the original point. Sometimes programs go through stretches of adversity and it doesn't mean that the program is doomed. Studies have shown that average teams have no better statistical chance of doing better or worse after a coaching change than they do when there is no coaching change.
http://www.colorado.edu/news/featur...-record-football-teams-after-coaching-changes
Its illogical to assume that things will continue progressing linearly as they have in the past. Although every single thing in the history of college football tells us that is not how things work, fans nevertheless refuse to believe otherwise.
http://www.colorado.edu/news/featur...-record-football-teams-after-coaching-changes
Its illogical to assume that things will continue progressing linearly as they have in the past. Although every single thing in the history of college football tells us that is not how things work, fans nevertheless refuse to believe otherwise.
Agenda and skewed numbers. You are beating a dead horse on this. Link me to where I said "Jackie had just as many upsets and bad defeats? Because I didn't say that. The fact is, however, that he DID have good upsets -- giving us hope to win every game until the wheels fell off at the end -- something Mullen can't say. We literally know with at least 95% certainty what the outcome of the games will be simply by looking to see if we are Vegas favorites or underdogs.
It's pretty sad that KENTUCKY is all you can use to prop up your position. Yay. In the past 3 years, a 5-7 and 2 2-10 teams. Lifetime contract**
Why? Spurrier didn't almost lose to them. IDGAF about what you think you read in a final score. Kentucky NEVER got the ball with a chance to win that game. Pulling within 7 with 4:00 left before SC sustained a drive to win it doesn't = "almost lost."
No, he hasn't. You also conveniently overlook the fact that Jackie hung a banner at Pitt and had SIX teams finish in the final AP and Coaches top 10 career prior to MSU. He was a proven coach when we hired him. That bought him some degree of patience -- exactly like it bought Spurrier patience in the USCe build.
Righttt** You are having a comprehension failure in what I was saying.
The pieces are in place, that much is true. What has Dan done in 3+ years that makes you think he knows how to capitalize on it? I, for one, do not want to WASTE the opportunity at a special year "to give Dan another chance" when I'm forced to stomach another 2-3 close losses because our ***** coach played "not to lose" instead of to win, mismanaged clock and timeouts, and had the worst personnel usage imaginable.
Yay. 3 straight bowls. Only the top 70+ teams get to go to those now. Seems like a great accomplishment. Build him a statue**
It's year FIVE in the SEC. It is NOT "to be expected" anymore. That card is played out. If you haven't learned how to handle **** by now -- you aren't learning. What in the world gives you the impression that he's learning from mistakes? The manner in which he managed to lose to Auburn identically to how he lost to South Carolina 2 years earlier?
2 years ago, he hadn't yet quit and started mailing it in...Although I saw signs in the LSU game -- which I refused to let myself believe at the time.
No, it isn't. It's a basically impossible task for him. "Dan the man"? Wake up. 2010 was a LONG time ago. And this isn't the same Dan that we had then.
Why do you keep arguing about it then? I've already tried to agree to disagree with you 3 different times only to have you come back with more of the same bs.
There is no way in hell to know that. Mullen is way closer to pulling a 2010 Houston Nutt and letting it snowball into total purgatory than he is to turning it around and "being more successful than Jackie".
Holler back at me after these next 2 -- when we're an underdog or toss-up heading to Little Rock and a 2-score underdog on our home field in the Egg Bowl.
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And we may have won 3 SEC titles and now be Oregon of the southeast. There is literally no way we can make assumptions beyond the point the change was made. Croom may have fired McCorvey and turned it around in 09 as well. We will literally never know.
So, a zero-sum scenario is an excuse to stick with a stagnant and regressing program that is losing the fans and will be essentially costing the university millions in a matter of weeks -- if not already?
No one is arguing for linear progression.
What I see here is 2 years worth of progression followed by 3 years worth of linear REGRESSION.
Sagarin
09 - 45
10 - 15
11 - 31
12 - 42
13 - 55(and likely about to drop like a rock)
I'm not happy being a 40s-60s program at/very near the basement of the SEC.
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If you expect to compete for multiple national champions, I advise giving up. Its not going to happen. We might be able to find a Mike Bellotti, though, and I can see Mullen doing that. But the SEC is much tougher and our relative resources compared to our opponents is not the same as Oregon.
But if you really want to be the Oregon of the Southeast, we need to increase the population and per capita income of the state, have a couple alumni start Nike, or otherwise quadruple our budget. We'd also need to get some of LSU, Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee to move farther away from us.
But if you really want to be the Oregon of the Southeast, we need to increase the population and per capita income of the state, have a couple alumni start Nike, or otherwise quadruple our budget. We'd also need to get some of LSU, Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee to move farther away from us.
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They way you say that makes it sound the coach has hindered us being even higher in revenue. He played a significant part in that, if not the major reason one of the major reasons.
There's nothing skewed about what I've posted. I showed you that Sherrill lost to an opponent that had a losing record 10 out of 13 years and 1 of the 3 we lost to a 6-6 Arkansas team. I showed you Sherrill only had upset wins in 5 seasons which is no where near almost every season. So while you say Sherrill gave you hope to win every game, he must have also gave you despair that we could lose every game. Mullen was a yard away from beating Lsu in his first year. he was a dropped pass from beating the NC Auburn in his 2nd year and a fumble from beating a good Arkansas team. He was a FG away from beating an 11-2 South Carolina team in year 3. Year 4 was the only year Mullen hasn't come close to knocking off a great team. This year we have been in every game at half.
Kentucky is what you used. not me. You were the one talking about beating a future 2-10 team when Jackie lost to a 2-9 La. Monroe team and ****** Kentucky teams 5 out of 13 years. Seems pretty valid to me. Jackie lost to Memphis in 91. Lost to a 2-9 Lsu team in 92. We tied Ark State in 93. We got blown out by a 4-7 Lsu team in 94. 95 was 2-9 La. Monroe. Lost to La Tech in 96 plus 2 4-7 teams including Kentucky. 97 lost to a 4-7 Arkansas team. 98 blown out to a 4-7 Lsu team by 35. It took Sherrill to 99 to not lose to a team with a losing record and still barely beat a 3-8 Lsu team.
Was this the same Pitt team that was 12-0 before Majors left Jackie the reigns? Don't act like he built that program up.
haha really making fun of our bowls? I guess two gator bowls is just blah. whatever guy now you are just reaching.
I'm not arguing bro. Like I said, I'm trying to figure out why you thought Jackie was the savior of Msu football and Dan is the Debil? Why he gave you so much promise after losing to two 4-7 teams and La tech in 96 and Dan has played 2 top 15 teams into the 4th qtr and had 1 beat until the last minute. You say Dan lost Auburn but Lewis gets a pass from dropping a wide open pass that would have sealed the game late? Sounds like an Agenda to me.
How the hell is Mullen closer to Nutt? Nutt lost his team. There's nothing I've seen that shows Dan is losing this team. It's funny you bring up Dan giving up when it was the exact opposite that cost us to get blown out in the 4th to Lsu. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You ***** that Dan didn't try to beat Lsu in 2011 and then you ***** that we got blown out this year by Lsu because he played for all 40 minutes instead of trying to make the score respectable.
Wow bold prediction on Arkansas game when we will be looking at a 4-6 record and on the road. We will not be a 2 score underdog to Ole Miss I can promise you that.