WVU declines to release information related to Koenning’s exit.

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Can’t post the link due to it being a competitor with Vernon but WVU has denied FOIA requests involving the special investigation they conducted and the findings by using the FERPA law excuse.

Just another instance of the athletic department and Shane Lyons being shady and non-transparent to those who financially support the program. Got rid of a coach because a player cried on twitter, and the same player suspiciously opts out of playing a week after Coach Vic left. Such a coincidence in the timing. Athletic department keeps trying to hide and not show that they overreacted.

 

[Vernon]

Can’t post the link due to it being a competitor with Vernon but WVU has denied FOIA requests involving the special investigation they conducted and the findings by using the FERPA law excuse.

Just another instance of the athletic department and Shane Lyons being shady and non-transparent to those who financially support the program. Got rid of a coach because a player cried on twitter, and the same player suspiciously opts out of playing a week after Coach Vic left. Such a coincidence in the timing. Athletic department keeps trying to hide and not show that they overreacted.

FWIW, we already released all of the info The Blue Lot and it's worth pointing out that both sides agreed to not release the details beyond what was provided to those of us that did a FOIA request. I understand wanting more info but that's why it's not happening.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

FWIW, we already released all of the info The Blue Lot and it's worth pointing out that both sides agreed to not release the details beyond what was provided to those of us that did a FOIA request. I understand wanting more info but that's why it's not happening.

I respected the rules, lol. I can’t see the Blue Lot Vernon!! I’m throwing the free board some scraps.

Coach Vic also agreed to forfeit his rights to sue WVU unless there was a breach in the agreement.

 

[Vernon]

I respected the rules, lol. I can’t see the Blue Lot Vernon!! I’m throwing the free board some scraps.

Coach Vic also agreed to forfeit his rights to sue WVU unless there was a breach in the agreement.

No problem at all, I was just pointing out we went a little more into the details on that board. Many things like this info we would release for free but to be honest I didn't want to get the fans too worked up again because some go way too far and say things that will embarrass us all. But with that said I don't at all agree with how this was handled. A sad situation.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Can’t post the link due to it being a competitor with Vernon but WVU has denied FOIA requests involving the special investigation they conducted and the findings by using the FERPA law excuse.

Just another instance of the athletic department and Shane Lyons being shady and non-transparent to those who financially support the program. Got rid of a coach because a player cried on twitter, and the same player suspiciously opts out of playing a week after Coach Vic left. Such a coincidence in the timing. Athletic department keeps trying to hide and not show that they overreacted.

From what Vernon has said, there is a lot I dont know so I will not speculate, but this situation feels real slimy and I have no problem holding it against Brown going forward and it seems like whenever Lyons get involved with something it turns to trash....I don't trust him any further than I could throw him.

 

[Vernon]

From what Vernon has said, there is a lot I dont know so I will not speculate, but this situation feels real slimy and I have no problem holding it against Brown going forward and it seems like whenever Lyons get involved with something it turns to trash....I don't trust him any further than I could throw him.

Against Brown? This was way over his head and he supported Vic anyway.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

If a third party actually conducted an independent investigation there is an invoice and a payment. Those details shouldnt be shielded by FERPA.

I will maintain my belief that despite what Brown said, their was no independent investigation conducted - it was an internal hit job.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Against Brown? This was way over his head and he supported Vic anyway.

Brown said they launched a independent investigation and so far there has been no proof an independent investigation actually occurred.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Against Brown? This was way over his head and he supported Vic anyway.

If Brown wanted to keep Vic and Lyons/Gee went against him, I would think that this would make Brown more hesitant on staying around if he cannot keep the staff that he wants or make his own decisions on staff. It would make any coach weary about joining any AD that runs like that. I think it sets a bad precedent going forward.

Look at why Rich Rod left (it was AD department related).

 

[Darth_VadEER]

If Brown wanted to keep Vic and Lyons/Gee went against him, I would think that this would make Brown more hesitant on staying around if he cannot keep the staff that he wants or make his own decisions on staff. It would make any coach weary about joining any AD that runs like that. I think it sets a bad precedent going forward.

Look at why Rich Rod left (it was AD department related).

Remember that diversity committee (or whatever they called it), that's who is running the program.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Remember that diversity committee (or whatever they called it), that's who is running the program.

Ahhh forgot that. Every future coaching hire will now have to “run the gauntlet“ of the Diversity committee before hired.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

FERPA should not conceal who the investigators were who handled the review or if an outside vendor was paid....this is a total cover up.

A total cover up. They are in full CYA mode.

 

[steeleer]

They can reveal who did the investigation without revealing a single finding. There was no independent investigation.

 

[.Bodhi.]

No problem at all, I was just pointing out we went a little more into the details on that board. Many things like this info we would release for free but to be honest I didn't want to get the fans too worked up again because some go way too far and say things that will embarrass us all. But with that said I don't at all agree with how this was handled. A sad situation.

I believe it has been the players, coaches, and administrators in the AD who own the lion's share of embarrassing behavior over the last few months.

 

[WVUALLEN]

If a third party actually conducted an independent investigation there is an invoice and a payment. Those details shouldnt be shielded by FERPA.

I will maintain my belief that despite what Brown said, their was no independent investigation conducted - it was an internal hit job.

It was Vic's idea to stop the investigation. Where were the players stepping up to back Vic? Oh that's right there were none.

From someone on another board...

Why the anger and finger pointing?
It seems rather simple:
1) he said she said scenario
2) volatile climate
3) wasn’t a head coach
4) big picture it’s peanuts
5) best to move on for all parties and nobody smeared
why the anger?
Is it ugly Racism again? I hope not.
Amazing but our most passionate fans could be the downfall of the program during these bizarre times.

I agree.

 

[Vernon]

I believe it has been the players, coaches, and administrators in the AD who own the lion's share of embarrassing behavior over the last few months.

Perhaps but I would prefer not to add fuel to the fire outside of the site. The vast majority here like to state their opinions but 'generally' act civil about it. That's not the case on social media and also you have people that are not really fans of WVU but they pretend to be when attacking people, that happens to every school. We report everything we get but I'm not a fan of making things worse elsewhere.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

It was Vic's idea to stop the investigation. Where were the players stepping up to back Vic? Oh that's right there were none.

From someone on another board...

Why the anger and finger pointing?
It seems rather simple:
1) he said she said scenario
2) volatile climate
3) wasn’t a head coach
4) big picture it’s peanuts
5) best to move on for all parties and nobody smeared
why the anger?
Is it ugly Racism again? I hope not.
Amazing but our most passionate fans could be the downfall of the program during these bizarre times.

I agree.

Whether players defended him or not is irrelevant. That is not how you determine issues with employees.

Whether the investigation was stopped by Vic or not is also irrelevant. First we need to establish an investigation actually happened. There is no evidence an independent investigation took place.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The truth will make us look bad so its better to not know truth.....that seems to be WVU's position.

Someone inside is being protected. There was obviously an internal force on this and they don't want to be publicly known as the casaul agent.

I have my suspicions who that person was, but I will keep those suspicions private.

 

[MountaineerWV]

If a third party actually conducted an independent investigation there is an invoice and a payment. Those details shouldnt be shielded by FERPA.

I will maintain my belief that despite what Brown said, their was no independent investigation conducted - it was an internal hit job.

So, Vernon, who has WAAAAYYYY more inside information than any of us, says it's above Brown, you still deny and say it's Brown's fault.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

So, Vernon, who has WAAAAYYYY more inside information than any of us, says it's above Brown, you still deny and say it's Brown's fault.

I'm using Browns words. He said there was an independent investigation and no one at WVU has provided any proof - not even released the name of the person who conducted the investigation, so forgive me for not blindly believing Brown.

If it came from above, which I believe it did...it just shows people at WVU don't respect Brown and he doesn't have control of his staff - or his players.

 

[MountaineerWV]

I'm using Browns words. He said there was an independent investigation and no one at WVU has provided any proof - not even released the name of the person who conducted the investigation, so forgive me for not blindly believing Brown.

If it came from above, which I believe it did...it just shows people at WVU don't respect Brown and he doesn't have control of his staff - or his players.

But you are blindly BLAMING Brown.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

But you are blindly BLAMING Brown.

He is the HC and VK was his subordinate, so yes - I put the blame on the person who is in charge. There is nothing blind about that.

 

[MountaineerWV]

He is the HC and VK was his subordinate, so yes - I put the blame on the person who is in charge. There is nothing blind about that.

Interesting.......I'll use this logic too next time someone loses their job and the blame goes to the person who hired them and was the supervisor........... [winking]

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Interesting.......I'll use this logic too next time someone loses their job and the blame goes to the person who hired them and was the supervisor........... [winking]

Yeah - because when an employee is terminated, their boss has nothing to do it. People fire themselves and walk out with a bag of cash.

Poor widdle Neal, has no control over anything....

 

[tOSUGrad90]

At a minimum, the head coach caved. Whether he had much of an alternative to caving is the real unanswered question.

 

[Vernon]

At a minimum, the head coach caved. Whether he had much of an alternative to caving is the real unanswered question.

How did he cave?

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

It was Vic's idea to stop the investigation. Where were the players stepping up to back Vic? Oh that's right there were none.

From someone on another board...

Why the anger and finger pointing?
It seems rather simple:
1) he said she said scenario
2) volatile climate
3) wasn’t a head coach
4) big picture it’s peanuts
5) best to move on for all parties and nobody smeared
why the anger?
Is it ugly Racism again? I hope not.
Amazing but our most passionate fans could be the downfall of the program during these bizarre times.

I agree.

"Is it ugly Racism again?" Completely disagree with this statement. The whole reason for this volatile climate is because we as a society are letting perceptions of individuals dictate what is and is not racism. It's volatile because any disagreements on problems or solutions are being automatically attributed to racism. We have moved to a point where an organization in this country is getting support from a majority of corporations, entertainment outlets, and half of politicians that is literally espousing that the nuclear family, delayed gratification/self discipline, and capitalism are white racist institutions that only exist to suppress minorities. Never mind that this system has benefited East Asian people far more than white people as a group, but I digress. The issue is society has kept giving ground and it has never been enough. Modern inconveniences are being equated to true villains of 1950's Jim Crowe that had to be defeated which diminishes the true meaning and vileness of racism. So opposition to this from most of us is that the mere public proclamation of offense by a member of a protected group being all it takes to end a career is a nasty precedent to set.

"Where are all the players stepping up to back Vic?" I don't think you are dumb, but you are oblivious if you don't see that social media mobs just waiting to destroy anyone who steps out of line. Anyone who pays attention to the current culture knows that holding a left leaning political view may get a few trolls harassing you, but not a motivated mob trying to actual destroy your life and livelihood. Just watch how they eat their own like J.K Rowling who was the queen 5 years ago for retroactively making her book characters gay and now is being treated as worse than Hitler for not towing the line on transgender issues. This is not a digression, but an illustration on how the social media mobs people with opinions they do not like in an attempt to destroy them and we both know any player that stood up to Vic would have been destroyed in a similar fashion. Again another unfair tactic and precedent where the mere accusation is all the proof necessary to ruin your life.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

So, Vernon, who has WAAAAYYYY more inside information than any of us, says it's above Brown, you still deny and say it's Brown's fault.

There clowns don't care about that
They want to blame Neal Brown and Neal Brown will get blamed on this message board.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

"Is it ugly Racism again?" Completely disagree with this statement. The whole reason for this volatile climate is because we as a society are letting perceptions of individuals dictate what is and is not racism. It's volatile because any disagreements on problems or solutions are being automatically attributed to racism. We have moved to a point where an organization in this country is getting support from a majority of corporations, entertainment outlets, and half of politicians that is literally espousing that the nuclear family, delayed gratification/self discipline, and capitalism are white racist institutions that only exist to suppress minorities. Never mind that this system has benefited East Asian people far more than white people as a group, but I digress. The issue is society has kept giving ground and it has never been enough. Modern inconveniences are being equated to true villains of 1950's Jim Crowe that had to be defeated which diminishes the true meaning and vileness of racism. So opposition to this from most of us is that the mere public proclamation of offense by a member of a protected group being all it takes to end a career is a nasty precedent to set.

"Where are all the players stepping up to back Vic?" I don't think you are dumb, but you are oblivious if you don't see that social media mobs just waiting to destroy anyone who steps out of line. Anyone who pays attention to the current culture knows that holding a left leaning political view may get a few trolls harassing you, but not a motivated mob trying to actual destroy your life and livelihood. Just watch how they eat their own like J.K Rowling who was the queen 5 years ago for retroactively making her book characters gay and now is being treated as worse than Hitler for not towing the line on transgender issues. This is not a digression, but an illustration on how the social media mobs people with opinions they do not like in an attempt to destroy them and we both know any player that stood up to Vic would have been destroyed in a similar fashion. Again another unfair tactic and precedent where the mere accusation is all the proof necessary to ruin your life.

You are blaming everyone except Vic Koenning

People who want to blame others for things that go wrong won't ever get anything done.


I continue to hear blame for everyone except for Vic.

 

[tOSUGrad90]

How did he cave?

At a minimum, it appears that Brown allowed his colleague and friend to be fired/pushed out/sacrificed over political correctness run amok. Brown may not have done anything else to effectuate Koenning's departure, but we're left to speculate, due to the decision to withhold the report. Do you disagree?

 

[Vernon]

At a minimum, it appears that Brown allowed his colleague and friend to be fired/pushed out/sacrificed over political correctness run amok. Brown may not have done anything else to effectuate Koenning's departure, but we're left to speculate, due to the decision to withhold the report. Do you disagree?

What could he have done? He supported him to the administration and there's really nothing more he could do. Had this been a DUI or something along those lines he may have pushed more publicly but the appearance of shitting on a black athlete is not something WVU or Brown can afford to do. It's much easier to sit here and suggest he should have done more but we're not the ones that are running a program or having our career on the line.

 

[tOSUGrad90]

I'm not suggesting that Brown should not have caved, but without knowing the contents of the report, I can't say that he should have, either. It's possible that Brown went to bat for Koenning, and was told that it was either Koenning or him, in which case, caving would have been the only logical thing for him to do. However, we don't know that this happened, and it would be "fanboyish" to assume that it did.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

What could he have done? He supported him to the administration and there's really nothing more he could do. Had this been a DUI or something along those lines he may have pushed more publicly but the appearance of shitting on a black athlete is not something WVU or Brown can afford to do. It's much easier to sit here and suggest he should have done more but we're not the ones that are running a program or having our career on the line.

Which is basically what we have been saying...

He was simply a sacrificial goat to appease the Twitter Woke Mob.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Refusing to accept that recruiting plays an important role in the success at WVU

Lyons job is to have successful athletic programs.
Especially football. So if someone is hurting their ability to recruit they have to move on

The "Twitter Mobs" played a role but ultimately it wasn't their decision.
No one cares about appeasing them.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Refusing to accept that recruiting plays an important role in the success at WVU

Lyons job is to have successful athletic programs.
Especially football. So if someone is hurting their ability to recruit they have to move on

The "Twitter Mobs" played a role but ultimately it wasn't their decision.
No one cares about appeasing them.

Which is precisely why people are walking a way from sports....so dirty you need to take a shower after watching a game, WVU included.

These coaches would prostitute their own mothers for a recruit pay them some attention.

Lyons is a sleezeball. I could find better ethics at a day time strip club than I could in Woodburn Circle.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

What could he have done? He supported him to the administration and there's really nothing more he could do. Had this been a DUI or something along those lines he may have pushed more publicly but the appearance of shitting on a black athlete is not something WVU or Brown can afford to do. It's much easier to sit here and suggest he should have done more but we're not the ones that are running a program or having our career on the line.

That's the problem right there. Just asking for more than subjective feelings of offense from a black athlete is considered "shitting" on them. A white athlete gets no such consideration. Again, there may have been legitimate wrong doing by Vic. There may also have been overly sensitive reaction or even malicious intent from the athlete. But the fact that actually investigating whether a subjective claim of offense could possibly be a fabrication or overreaction/misinterpretation is being considered as doing the accuser wrong is a problem. That's the issue at hand. If doing due diligence on investigating a claim before doing real harm to a person's livelihood is to be avoided because of social media mob tactics, its just another step further down the trail of a new standard where certain protected groups can **** down other groups at a mere accusation.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

That's the problem right there. Just asking for more than subjective feelings of offense from a black athlete is considered "shitting" on them. A white athlete gets no such consideration. Again, there may have been legitimate wrong doing by Vic. There may also have been overly sensitive reaction or even malicious intent from the athlete. But the fact that actually investigating whether a subjective claim of offense could possibly be a fabrication or overreaction/misinterpretation is being considered as doing the accuser wrong is a problem. That's the issue at hand. If doing due diligence on investigating a claim before doing real harm to a person's livelihood is to be avoided because of social media mob tactics, its just another step further down the trail of a new standard where certain protected groups can **** down other groups at a mere accusation.

Does Vic weigh the same as a duck?

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Which is precisely why people are walking a way from sports....so dirty you need to take a shower after watching a game, WVU included.

These coaches would prostitute their own mothers for a recruit pay them some attention.

Lyons is a sleezeball. I could find better ethics at a day time strip club than I could in Woodburn Circle.

The bigger problem is people believe these false narratives are more important than sports

Not that sports have changed it is you have.

Recruiting has always been the most important thing for schools
CFB is built around the ability to recruit.

Just look at changes.

Georgia Tech left the SEC in the early 1960's because they wanted to limit the scholarships because Alabama was scooping all up the talent

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The bigger problem is people believe these false narratives are more important than sports

Not that sports have changed it is you have.

Recruiting has always been the most important thing for schools
CFB is built around the ability to recruit.

Just look at changes.

Georgia Tech left the SEC in the early 1960's because they wanted to limit the scholarships because Alabama was scooping all up the talent

Sports arent important. Morals are, at least to some people (not you or anyone at wvu).

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Sports arent important. Morals are, at least to some people (not you or anyone at wvu).

Morals...

Your principles aren't the principles of everyone at WVU.

I don't even know how morality is involved here. How is this even a moral question.

Schools have a rep. Just like businesses. If you damage their rep you are gone most of the time unless you have power....

Vic didn't have any power.

Even Jerry Falwell Jr was pushed aside at Liberty because he was hurting them.
Not just the football team but the university itself

None of these schools think the same as you.
They aren't going to draw a line in the sand and say we want the world to think of us as a bunch of people who are Straight White Christian Males. Anyone who isn't can go to hell.