WVU Definitely Valuable to the ACC
- Thread starter EER X
- Start date
The day will come sooner than later. Pay for view streaming will replace broadcast and someone will offer any game on any Saturday for a streaming game ticket. The day of huge stadiums will decrease as well. Schools will set their own compensation levels. Good news...fan support will mean something again.
Disagree 
Some of these schools have 100K outside of the stadiums as well.
People might not show up but they will be there.
Often times the problems some of these schools have because they turn them into events.
What is going on outside is more entertaining than inside the stadium.
Doesn’t mean they don’t draw a crowd
Some of these schools have 100K outside of the stadiums as well.
People might not show up but they will be there.
Often times the problems some of these schools have because they turn them into events.
What is going on outside is more entertaining than inside the stadium.
Doesn’t mean they don’t draw a crowd
"People might not show up but they will be there." Good grief you are you thick. Must have aced a course in sounding stupid.
If the game is 49-0 they aren’t staying in the stands…
The amount of people who are in the stands depends on how the games are
Have you ever been to a CFB game…
People are still outside of the stadium even when the games are going on
Matters the level of the game
Matters the score
But these events draw huge crowds.
To think that somehow this will change is stupidity
When Texas played LSU in Austin there were about 300-350K in and around the stadium
The amount of people who are in the stands depends on how the games are
Have you ever been to a CFB game…
People are still outside of the stadium even when the games are going on
Matters the level of the game
Matters the score
But these events draw huge crowds.
To think that somehow this will change is stupidity
When Texas played LSU in Austin there were about 300-350K in and around the stadium
Yeah people getting drunk in the parking lot are real football fans alright. Lol
What do you think happens to Clemson in the long run when it comes to conference affiliation?
Be nice like when Pitt left us behind in the Eastern 8 and joined the new conference called the Big East. Then 10 years ago decided to run off again to join the ACC and leave us for dead in the Big East. Pitt only cares about Pitt.
Whatever.
People continuously reaching for these new facts trying to combat THE fact, revenue brought to the ACC by adding WVU.
None of them work.
Only way we get in is at a reduced payout until the new ACC contract is up or something.
They are not adding WVU at face value
None of them work.
Only way we get in is at a reduced payout until the new ACC contract is up or something.
They are not adding WVU at face value
According to the networks' own evaluations, WVU would have the 4th highest value in the ACC right now. That is without the additional subscriptions their fans would bring where ACCN is an option in addition to mandatory SECN. That is significant monetary value to the conference.
Filling stadiums with historical rivals may not feed the network, but it certainly helps the schools' athletic budgets. In normal years, WVU ticket and concessions sales roughly equal MAC donations. That is significant.
You are right on. Folks keep talking about fan base...tailgate parties...etc . Means nothing. No one is going to give up a big chunk of tv money to let the Mountaineers into their exclusive club. WVU has to bring the money with them.
Your fan passion is making you see things that aren't there. We currently add no value to the ACC.
Your pessimism is not allowing you to see Mountaineer Nation paying DirecTV an extra $9.99 per month for the upper tier packages which include SECN and ACCN. It's called the regional sports package and is mandatory on those packages. When I recently left DirecTV I was paying for and receiving neither, choosing a lower tier. WVU joins the ACC or SEC I start paying for and receiving both. That is one example of measurable value.
He's another rational argument not related to viewership: https://www.si.com/college/westvirginia/noncategorized/making-the-case-for-wvu-to-get-into-the-acc
The problem is not all schools have the same value. According to the big 12 AD the loss of Texas and Oklahoma could result in up to a 50% loss of tv value. So if 20% of your conference is 50% of your value what does that say about the remaining 80%. In terms of the Acc we might be the 4th most valuable but it doesn't mean we bring any meaningful value. When you look at the sec and big 10 they are the only two conferences that are deep in blue bloods. The Pac 12 and Acc only really have 1 or 2 marquee programs. I would love for wvu to find a new home but the bean counters in these other conferences probably don't view us as bringing much value at this point.
That's actually not true. What you are citing is that West Virginia's TV ratings, under certain conditions, were the 4th highest among ACC teams. The problem is that there are several other factors that determine value to a conference, and not all conferences can monetize a school in the same way others can.
I agree, but the Big 12 (Texas) didn't bring us in because they felt sorry for us. When the Big 12 was joking about expanding, did ANY of the candidates equal WVU in value? I say no, not overall.
Media companies
They are the ones who profit
We are seeing capitalism happen in college sports
Everyone loves capitalism until it doesn’t benefit them
But you should adjust and put yourself in a better position
On the fanbase more than university
Wvu's value is probably greater to the Big 12 than it is to the Acc. Wvu gave the big 12 an opening to the eastern seaboard that didn't exist before. Wvu has always had a strong presence in pa and the dc metro area. Wvu helped the big 12 in these areas. The acc doesn't need wvu in these areas. It already has its own presence by its existing members. There is a reason that current members of the G5 are not members of the power 5 just like there is a reason wvu isn't a member of the sec ,big 10 or acc at this point.
Excuse me, but until UT and OK actually leave WVU is still above the ACC in earnings, by far. No school in the ACC retains 3rd tier rights. If the conference per school payouts were equal, which they are not, WVU's 3rd tier brings in a total of around $9 million in payments and in kind donations per year.
The Big 12 chose WVU over an ACC expansion school, that cannot be changed or denied. Joining the ACC would cost WVU a $10 million per year cut at least in the beginning. Why hurry until UT and OK are either free from the expired GoR or buy their way out? The ACC has a handful of strong schools and many more parasites they keep for "Academic standing" that can't even sell out 40,000 seat stadiums or draw a TV audience at all.
Financially, the ACC desperately needs Notre Dame to come all in along with another best of the rest. Well guess who that would be. A current G5 school?
Utah and Colorado added to PAC--at the time it boosted the PAC to the largest tv contracts in all of college sports.
Pitt and SU added to ACC--drove up ACC revenues at least $5 million per school.
Rutgers and UMD. After their addition, the B10 revenues at their next renewal went up to well over $50 mil per school--an enormous increase.
A then very mediocre AtM and Missouri added to the SEC. Huge boost in revenues from ACC like payouts to in the $40 mil range within a decade.
Its funny when you look at EVERY conference that added schools--in those cases, schools that made far less than the conferences they went to, and somehow not only added millions to themselves, but greatly increased profits for existing schools DESPITE not drawing particulary great ratings or having any special success.
Yet somehow 8 members that were outdrawing entire conferences worth of schools by quite a bit, that have larger fanbases for the most part, and far more athletic success would not bring anything?
Its all disinformation.
Pitt and SU added to ACC--drove up ACC revenues at least $5 million per school.
Rutgers and UMD. After their addition, the B10 revenues at their next renewal went up to well over $50 mil per school--an enormous increase.
A then very mediocre AtM and Missouri added to the SEC. Huge boost in revenues from ACC like payouts to in the $40 mil range within a decade.
Its funny when you look at EVERY conference that added schools--in those cases, schools that made far less than the conferences they went to, and somehow not only added millions to themselves, but greatly increased profits for existing schools DESPITE not drawing particulary great ratings or having any special success.
Yet somehow 8 members that were outdrawing entire conferences worth of schools by quite a bit, that have larger fanbases for the most part, and far more athletic success would not bring anything?
Its all disinformation.
Oklahoma and Texas are 50% of the tv value according to bowlsby. When these schools leave the Big 12 we will make the least of any of the power 5 conferences. Not sure what you mean when you say the big 12 chose wvu over an acc expansion school. No team was leaving the acc to join the Big 12. Most had speculated that the big 12 was going to collapse the year before we joined. One of the big 12's historic problems going back to the days of the swc has been market overlap. Too many teams in the same area. It created market saturation. Wvu brought areas of the eastern seaboard into the big 12 fold. Wvu doesn't do that for any of the other conferences outside of the pac 12. Why are Clemson and Fsu not in the sec. Its probably because they don't bring anything to the sec. They are programs that exist in areas already saturated within the sec footprint. Wvu is pretty much in the same boat when it comes to the acc.
The ACC took Louisville, who the Big 12 turned down. The Big 12 could have taken WVU, Louisville and Cincinnati if market was the concern. Even with the huge Texas market overlap the Big 12 still topped the ACC. Teams left the Big 12 to escape UT.
Overlap is the ACC's biggest problem besides too many parasites to the payouts. Not overlap with their own teams except in North Carolina, but with SEC and B1G. WVU brings TV ratings that are higher than most of the ACC teams.
Mountaineer Nation is not just a phrase, it's the result of a massive exodus from the Southern part of the state to the Carolinas, Georgia, Ohio and Florida. Most of the guys I worked with are scattered throughout the South and are still rabid WVU fans, Facebook tells me that.
The issue is, when the Big 12 took West Virginia and TCU, it was not for expansion. It was to replace Missouri and A&M. ESPN and Fox were going to reduce the Big 12's contract if they did not maintained 10 schools. There wasn't any value to add from West Virginia, because they were just replacing value that was lost from Missouri and A&M. It was a wash.
When you are expanding, as opposed to replacing, the considerations are different.
Wv is a small state with a small population...with a proportionately small ex pat footprint. Wv has towns pretending to be cities. The media footprint is tiny. The state is poor. Even wifi is spotty. Fan enthusiasm has been declining in recent years. The football team has embraced mediocrity as ok. WVU's academic standing is middle of the road at best. In short WVU's ability to create wealth for the ACC or any P5 conference is limited. It's the AAC or independent. A merger of the Tiny8 and the AAC is the best short term solution with a ton of downstream upside and potential.
Buckaineer trying to validate anything Biden does as a win just brings everything full circle on his stupidity...
Par for the course with ole Buck Buck
WVU has fans all over the southeast and midwest- really all over the country as evidenced by their top 30 viewing over the past 5 years and strong ratings before that too. Their media reach is not that of a small poor state by any stretch of the imagination.
Academically WVU is a Carnegie tier 1 institution- the highest level attainable. They have multiple premiere programs- top level in the nation and many scholars and faculty that are esteemed.
Fanbase and TV viewing numbers show that WVU is and has been far superior to the majority of institutions in the ACC and PAc and half the B10 and much of the SEc as well.
They would obviously bring tremendous value to any athletic conference and even an academic one. They cant control what “ us news” falsely claims about their academics without ever setting foot on the campus or attending a class or taking an exam or graduating and seeking employment from there.
Academically WVU is a Carnegie tier 1 institution- the highest level attainable. They have multiple premiere programs- top level in the nation and many scholars and faculty that are esteemed.
Fanbase and TV viewing numbers show that WVU is and has been far superior to the majority of institutions in the ACC and PAc and half the B10 and much of the SEc as well.
They would obviously bring tremendous value to any athletic conference and even an academic one. They cant control what “ us news” falsely claims about their academics without ever setting foot on the campus or attending a class or taking an exam or graduating and seeking employment from there.
Last edited:
This is false. When WVU and TCU came in, ESPN came in early to renegotiate contracts not set to expire for years yet and offered a tremendous increase in revenues to new and exisiting members, along with expanded coverage which included bringing FOX back to the tabke and also expanding their ability to show B12 games on different platforms. All the schools including Texas and Ou signed onto the bew bylaws and the new GOR which is currently in effect.
If the ACC as a conference is superior to WVU as a school, especially in athletics, why does WVU have to take a $10 million pay cut if they join the ACC? I’m including tier 3.
No, it is not false. ESPN and Fox were going to reduce the contract if the Big 12 did not maintain 10 schools.
They don't have to take a pay cut. The reason the Big 12 amount of the Big 12 payout there are only 10 schools. The reason the Big 12 did not expand a couple of years ago is that the networks would pay enough to maintain the payouts by splitting it 4 more ways.
The networks never did decrease the Big 12s payout when Nebraska and Colorado left. That's what kept the Big 12s payout as high as it was.
Regarding Tier 3, this is getting tiresome. The ACC schools have Tier 3 revenue as well. West Virginia would still get Tier 3 money in the ACC.
You don't have to include tier 3.
BIG 12 low payouts were at $37.7--higher schools earned over $40 million--only Clemson in the ACC approached that in the most recent look. and they got $34 million including ACCnetwork payouts.
WVU's tv tier 3 isn't 9 million--that bigger number includes some signage and other things that ACC schools also have deals for, but its at least $3 million-$5 million on top of the $37 mil--which was at a low number due to Covid--would have been over $40 otherwise. Supposed to be at around $45 mil in 2025.
He'll never produce where that's published, because its a LIE and never happened.
The BIG 12 WITH AtM and Missouri (10 schools)--renegotiated a deal with FOX sports when the old FOX sports contract expired.
Then over the next year or so those schools departed anyway and TCU was added very quickly and as Missouri was getting ready to depart, WVU was invited. FOX agreed that they would not reduce the recently signed contract as long as 10 schools remained with the BIG 12.
ESPN then came to the conference to renegotiate EARLY--still had multiple years left on their contract.
Once TCU and WVU were on board, ESPN and FOX finalized the new deal(s) with the current makeup and they all signed GORs that exist to this day.
None of it had anything to do with overpayment.
You just said,"FOX agreed that they would not reduce the recently signed contract as long as 10 schools remained with the BIG 12."
That's the same thing I said. The Big 12 had to keep 10 teams, or the networks would reduce their contract.
You think those extra 10 million were all from WVU? Or perhaps it was the cut from what UT and OU brought in with their TV appeal. I appreciate your optimism, but you speak like the ACC would inevitably see a big jump in profitability if they added WVU and I don't see that that. If that's not what you are saying, then why keep responding to those who think the ACC has legitimate reason to do a cost benefit analysis on WVU that may not result in WVU being invited?