Y'all's opinion on Croom's coaching abilities
- Thread starter Indndawg
- Start date
I'd say you better believe Croom is near the bottom of the SEC in coaching abilities. He's getting better at recruiting, but still has a ways to go.
I think he's a good coach in terms of preparing his team, getting his team to buy into his program, and getting his team to play hard.
As far as play calling, I think he's average. A lot of people complain that he's too conservative, but I think that is at least in part because of the personnel that he has on offense.
I think his faults are that he sometimes runs his mouth too much and makes promises that he can't deliver or says things that he shouldn't- for example "I don't care what the fans think" after losing to Tulane, or "I will never fire an assistant coach"- see Amos Jones. I do think that he is too stubborn sometimes- like staying with Micheal Henig too long.
I think his strengths are he has a very good reputation around the state, and I think that has helped our recruiting, and he is very likable, but he's not a pushover like Charley Shira. He wants to win. I like how he has a long range vision for MSU football and is not quick fix, year to year, win at all costs now and sacrifice the future. I think he is learning how to be a better coach and that is showing up in terms of wins on the field and also in recruiting. I think he is a good representative for MSU and the state of Mississippi. I like how he wants the football players to be productive in life after MSU.
So, as of right now, I'm happy with him, and of course that could change by Sept. I do think that if he were fired at the end of this season for some reason or left on his own, there would be no question that our program would be in better shape than when he took over.
As far as play calling, I think he's average. A lot of people complain that he's too conservative, but I think that is at least in part because of the personnel that he has on offense.
I think his faults are that he sometimes runs his mouth too much and makes promises that he can't deliver or says things that he shouldn't- for example "I don't care what the fans think" after losing to Tulane, or "I will never fire an assistant coach"- see Amos Jones. I do think that he is too stubborn sometimes- like staying with Micheal Henig too long.
I think his strengths are he has a very good reputation around the state, and I think that has helped our recruiting, and he is very likable, but he's not a pushover like Charley Shira. He wants to win. I like how he has a long range vision for MSU football and is not quick fix, year to year, win at all costs now and sacrifice the future. I think he is learning how to be a better coach and that is showing up in terms of wins on the field and also in recruiting. I think he is a good representative for MSU and the state of Mississippi. I like how he wants the football players to be productive in life after MSU.
So, as of right now, I'm happy with him, and of course that could change by Sept. I do think that if he were fired at the end of this season for some reason or left on his own, there would be no question that our program would be in better shape than when he took over.
with his version of the WCO. I also don't understand his lack of recruiting QBs to run that type of offense. He's stubborn to his own detriment often. While we were in bad shape I still believe a more experienced head coach would have at least 5 more wins over the last 4 years.
as a person, we probably couldnt have made a better hire. The man does have integrity and is as ol school as it gets. While its easy to tell he wasnt an English major, there are people that interview worse than him for sure.</p>
as a coach, I have to put him 11th in the SEC. Bobby Johnson should have even had a winning season by now. Crooms learning curve was way too slow, and his hardheadedness is something that may cause his downfall. His ultraconservative approach to offense is sickening, but the toughness he preaches is one of the staples of football.</p>
He has made our program better, altho I think 75% of the people we could have hired could have made it better than it was at the end of Sherrill. I think Crooms has this season and next to show if he is for real or if last season was a fluke. Anything less than 6-6 this season should result in his firing, altho he will get 2009 to show what he's got regardless of how it turns out.</p>
What is interesting is that many of us are hopeful because of last season, yet are uneasy due to the way it was pulled off. I look forward to this season more than any in awhile due to the fact that anything could happen. And i'll give Crooms one thing- he has brought back a little excitement and anticipation to MSU football- regardless of what happens.</p>
as a coach, I have to put him 11th in the SEC. Bobby Johnson should have even had a winning season by now. Crooms learning curve was way too slow, and his hardheadedness is something that may cause his downfall. His ultraconservative approach to offense is sickening, but the toughness he preaches is one of the staples of football.</p>
He has made our program better, altho I think 75% of the people we could have hired could have made it better than it was at the end of Sherrill. I think Crooms has this season and next to show if he is for real or if last season was a fluke. Anything less than 6-6 this season should result in his firing, altho he will get 2009 to show what he's got regardless of how it turns out.</p>
What is interesting is that many of us are hopeful because of last season, yet are uneasy due to the way it was pulled off. I look forward to this season more than any in awhile due to the fact that anything could happen. And i'll give Crooms one thing- he has brought back a little excitement and anticipation to MSU football- regardless of what happens.</p>
Everything he does I agree with except maybe running his mouth a little too much. If he gave over the offense to someone that was a good coordinator I think everyone would be wooly. If our game plan looked like the UK game plan every week I would give Woody some slack. I hate that I can almost guess every play we are about to run. This version of WCO looks almost just like Jackie's offenses. Run, Run, pass, punt.</p>
"<span class="post-title">I think we would be singing his praises if he had gotten a good offensive coordinator."
agree 100%...If he would adopt Jackie's policy of hiring someone to put in their offense, play fairly close to the vest, and then fire them if they dont get the job done- I think Crooms would be at State 10 more years and be successful doing it.
"This version of WCO looks almost just like Jackie's offenses."
This statement is a joke. Our offenses under Jackie were routinely in the 40"s, 50"s, and 60's nationally...even his worst in 99 was 88th. Crooms cant even smell Jackie's offenses.</span>
agree 100%...If he would adopt Jackie's policy of hiring someone to put in their offense, play fairly close to the vest, and then fire them if they dont get the job done- I think Crooms would be at State 10 more years and be successful doing it.
"This version of WCO looks almost just like Jackie's offenses."
This statement is a joke. Our offenses under Jackie were routinely in the 40"s, 50"s, and 60's nationally...even his worst in 99 was 88th. Crooms cant even smell Jackie's offenses.</span>
When you expect to run off the right tackle then follow it up with off the left tackle. Then attempt a 6 yard pass on third down. Only difference is Croom would run a 5 yard route on 3rd and 6
with how bad we've sucked over the decade and the lack of good in-state QB's -- I don't think it for a lack of trying, but we've been stuck with a bunch of leftovers.
As far as style, it's much like Jackie's old smashmouth offenses. But Peaches is right, results are very different now and then. Why that is, I'm not sure, other than maybe defenses today are a little faster trying to contain the plethora of spread offenses, rendering predictable, smashmouth offenses like Croom's and Jackie's ineffective now. I certainly agree with the statement that with a better OC we'd all be very wooly right now.
Croom should've either gotten a WCO guy or an up-and-coming OC and left him the hell alone. It's taken Croom 4 years to realize a straight WCO will never consistently work at MSU, I hope he is truthful about adding elements of other offensive schemes.
This sums up exactly how I feel. Great man, incredible representative for the school and state. His learning curve as far as in-game coaching has been a bit slow for my liking, but definitely improving. He's certainly stepped up his recruiting and gotten much, much better. As you say, the toughness he preaches is a staple of football and one of the things I absolutely love in our team. They play a physical brand of football that I enjoy watching and other teams hate playing aGAINst. Like you, my only real gripe is the ultraconservative approach to offense. Here's hoping the offense improves and we can win 6-8 and go bowling aGAIN. It feels good to go into a season hoping for a bowl instead of 4 wins.
....but very average at best when it comes to on-the-field/in-game coaching and adjustments. Furthermore his stubborness is something I don't like. I was hoping we'd hire a coach who was more flexible, but what we did was go old school Bear Bryant again. Croom's loyalty and stubborness will prevent his own self from reaching the vision he has for this program, that is unless he truly gets on the ball with recruiting on the offensive side of the ball(skill players, especially receivers and QBs) and hires a real OC with a real college scheme one day.
I saw someone mention in this thread yet again that they believe maybe Croom is conservative because of the lack of personnel. And again I say that's HIS problem. He installed an NFL offense in college, a scheme that hasn't been too successful at this level, and at a school that doesn't and never will sign a class full of blue chippers from year to year.</p>
Regardless of the easier schedule this year, I've stated for months now that I believe we could have a mediocre or even bad season if we don't get a lot better on offense, and I'll stand by that. The defense might still be good, but I doubt they'll carry the team like they did in '07. The loss of certain personnel as well as a new DC calling the shots are both concerns. The offense must pick up the slack, and I have my doubts they will just based on what I've seen in four years from this staff. They'll have to prove it before I believe it, and I certainly hope they do.
I was happy with the '07 season like everyone else. How I could not be after SIX years of misery? So my complaints or concerns have nothing to do with whether or not I was happy with the results. I definitely was. However, I always have a tendency to look to the future based on the means of how we got to a point of success on the field. And after looking back at how we came to be an 8-win bowl team, I see a very slippery slope. I believe, among the many things we accomplished on our own, that we also lucked out in many ways. So much so to the point that just a thin line separates an 8-win '07 season from a crash-and-burn 4-5 win '08 season.
In short, I believe we still have a lot of work to do to prove '07 wasn't a fluke, which means I believe that Croom still has to be ranked in the bottom 1/3 of SEC coaches.
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I saw someone mention in this thread yet again that they believe maybe Croom is conservative because of the lack of personnel. And again I say that's HIS problem. He installed an NFL offense in college, a scheme that hasn't been too successful at this level, and at a school that doesn't and never will sign a class full of blue chippers from year to year.</p>
Regardless of the easier schedule this year, I've stated for months now that I believe we could have a mediocre or even bad season if we don't get a lot better on offense, and I'll stand by that. The defense might still be good, but I doubt they'll carry the team like they did in '07. The loss of certain personnel as well as a new DC calling the shots are both concerns. The offense must pick up the slack, and I have my doubts they will just based on what I've seen in four years from this staff. They'll have to prove it before I believe it, and I certainly hope they do.
I was happy with the '07 season like everyone else. How I could not be after SIX years of misery? So my complaints or concerns have nothing to do with whether or not I was happy with the results. I definitely was. However, I always have a tendency to look to the future based on the means of how we got to a point of success on the field. And after looking back at how we came to be an 8-win bowl team, I see a very slippery slope. I believe, among the many things we accomplished on our own, that we also lucked out in many ways. So much so to the point that just a thin line separates an 8-win '07 season from a crash-and-burn 4-5 win '08 season.
In short, I believe we still have a lot of work to do to prove '07 wasn't a fluke, which means I believe that Croom still has to be ranked in the bottom 1/3 of SEC coaches.
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I know this has been asked before, but I don't remember your answer. Why Crooms. I think he has earned enough respect to at least have his name spelled right.
I am happy with Coach Croom. I think he has built us up in phases and I love the smash mouth toughness we play now. I do agree that this is the year our offense should step up and improve or a change may be needed on the offensive side of the ball. I also feel confident this will be the year we will improve on offense, and we will still be slobber knockers. I just hope when we do pull it all together he doesn't get swooped away to one of the big time programs. Coach Croom brings a lot of good press with him, and if we start winning more than we lose he will be in demand.
I am happy with Coach Croom. I think he has built us up in phases and I love the smash mouth toughness we play now. I do agree that this is the year our offense should step up and improve or a change may be needed on the offensive side of the ball. I also feel confident this will be the year we will improve on offense, and we will still be slobber knockers. I just hope when we do pull it all together he doesn't get swooped away to one of the big time programs. Coach Croom brings a lot of good press with him, and if we start winning more than we lose he will be in demand.
and I'm just basing that on the fact that we would run end arounds and reverses almost every game, and the probability that Carroll's arm strength should be better, which should allow us to attack deep a little more. Two years ago, I don't think Croom would have ever tried running a reverse.
I'd like to see an occasional flea flicker- my personal favorite, halfback pass, statue of liberty, WR pass, fake spike and throw the ball up to a WR, fake punt, fake punt/pass, and hook and ladder. I doubt we will see that though, maybe one of the above.
I'd like to see an occasional flea flicker- my personal favorite, halfback pass, statue of liberty, WR pass, fake spike and throw the ball up to a WR, fake punt, fake punt/pass, and hook and ladder. I doubt we will see that though, maybe one of the above.
"Why Crooms"
Because this is his assclown offense..we are the only team in the country that has been 100 or lower on offense in the nation the last 4 years, yet still have the same coach and OC. That should tell you something.
"I am happy with Coach Croom"
I am happy we had a winning season, but Crooms still has quite a bit to prove.
"I just hope when we do pull it all together he doesn't get swooped away to one of the big time programs"
hahahaha...you have nothing to worry about my friend...he will be at State until we fire him...he is ours
Because this is his assclown offense..we are the only team in the country that has been 100 or lower on offense in the nation the last 4 years, yet still have the same coach and OC. That should tell you something.
"I am happy with Coach Croom"
I am happy we had a winning season, but Crooms still has quite a bit to prove.
"I just hope when we do pull it all together he doesn't get swooped away to one of the big time programs"
hahahaha...you have nothing to worry about my friend...he will be at State until we fire him...he is ours
that his offenses look like JWS's plays run out of WCO formations.
And why were JWS offenses better? I'm going to guess because we had better overall players on offense, like JJ Johnson, Micheal Davis, Keefer, Kevin Bouie, Dicenzo, and better WR's like Moulds, Olanda Truitt, Prentiss, Kelvin Love, and Larry Huntington to name a few. Also, JWS QB's were much better than Henig- which says something about Henig. I would take Taite, Jordan, Sleepy, Wyatt, Madkin, and Fant all over Henig any day.
Croom has/had some good players- Norwood, Dixon, Conner, Burks, Ducre- and that's about it.</p>Also, JWS had much better overall o-lines than Croom. I think that is a big reason as well.
And why were JWS offenses better? I'm going to guess because we had better overall players on offense, like JJ Johnson, Micheal Davis, Keefer, Kevin Bouie, Dicenzo, and better WR's like Moulds, Olanda Truitt, Prentiss, Kelvin Love, and Larry Huntington to name a few. Also, JWS QB's were much better than Henig- which says something about Henig. I would take Taite, Jordan, Sleepy, Wyatt, Madkin, and Fant all over Henig any day.
Croom has/had some good players- Norwood, Dixon, Conner, Burks, Ducre- and that's about it.</p>Also, JWS had much better overall o-lines than Croom. I think that is a big reason as well.
figured out ways to score. We were very conservative, when playing with the lead. Against Arkansas, we were playing from behind and our offense played great. I think our lack of offense is more a result of game management, than lack of ability at all times. Now, I am not sure that is right or wrong, but it did win 8 games last year.
I think he's a great head coach, gets the team prepared well during the week. But, not a good game day coach. Too stubborn to make changes during the game. I think I remember a quote from him a while back questioning making changes at the half, like it was a completely foreign concept. If he could find some good position coaches or coordinators to run the game, i think we'd be alot better off.
Henig is the big mystery to me where Croom is concerned. Loyalty is one thing, but he seemed like he never would have been any better and it took 6 picks in one game, and then finally another injury to get him out of there. That is a little more stubborn than I like, but many coaches are stubborn about certain things and not just football. Still I have high hopes for MSU and Wesley, and we will finally have some good backup qbs. JWS did have some massive offensive lines though it wasn't always a good thing(see Air Force game). Go Dawgs.
RobertF50 said:
Because you are dealing with a mental midget who has these stupid nicknames for all of our coaches
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I think that's a great point, and I'm sure his thinking was we have a great defense, and we have a team that hasn't had a whole lot of success in the past, we have a freshman QB, and a good RB who is only a So., so don't screw it up by throwing long passes downfield or turning the ball over.
I'm sure that there were a lot of factors in his decisions last year, and they worked for the most part.
I'd rather ***** about his play calling being to conservative coming off of an eight win season rather than ***** about his play calling being too risky coming off of a three win season. If he made a lot of aggressive calls like O's fatal 4th down call, he would definately be on the hot seat, and we would all be wondering why he just didn't give the ball to Dixon and run an occasional draw with Ducre and run the clock out.
I think the real test is going to be when these hot shot recruits come in, because if his offense doesn't improve then, he really would need to be pressured into making some changes.
I'm sure that there were a lot of factors in his decisions last year, and they worked for the most part.
I'd rather ***** about his play calling being to conservative coming off of an eight win season rather than ***** about his play calling being too risky coming off of a three win season. If he made a lot of aggressive calls like O's fatal 4th down call, he would definately be on the hot seat, and we would all be wondering why he just didn't give the ball to Dixon and run an occasional draw with Ducre and run the clock out.
I think the real test is going to be when these hot shot recruits come in, because if his offense doesn't improve then, he really would need to be pressured into making some changes.
healthy the whole season, we wouldn't even have this thread and Croom might not have his job. I am glad we had the season we had. But, if Henig would have not gotten injured, Croom would have stuck with him no matter what and we would have had more LSUesque games.</p>
Theyu've been conservative for the past 30 years. We could predict what Emory Bellard was going to run (Wishbone option up the gut, wishbone option to the outside, pass, punt), Rockey Felker (Tay Galloway up the middle, Tay Galloway up the middle, Tay Galloway up the middle, punt), Jackie Sherrill (run, run, pass, punt) and Sylvester Croom.
The reason we're so conservative is that, for the longest time, both Mississippi High School players and Mississippi High school coaches were stupid. All the coaches would put their best athletes on defense, and hope somehow their offense would luck into scoring after getting the ball in enemy territory. For years, you've seen great innovations on defense, but offense would be a variation of the old T-formation buck-buck up-the-gut. Also, it's hard to teach unpredictable and innovative college offenses to players who needed tutors and untimed tests just to make an 18 on the ACT.
I think it's changing in Mississippi. You still have South Panola running their 4-play playbook, but this past season they had a QB who could actually operate a passing offense. Oak Grove has, for the past few years, run an innovative form of the spread to make up for their lack of size and ability. Even Meridian High under Larry Weems is looking like they might break a few records offensively. Also, more care is being taken to make sure Division 1 prospects have their schoolwork up to snuff so they can get into a four-year school.
Let's hope we have the players in place on offense that can learn the concept of "leading a receiver" and "receiver catching the ball while running".
The reason we're so conservative is that, for the longest time, both Mississippi High School players and Mississippi High school coaches were stupid. All the coaches would put their best athletes on defense, and hope somehow their offense would luck into scoring after getting the ball in enemy territory. For years, you've seen great innovations on defense, but offense would be a variation of the old T-formation buck-buck up-the-gut. Also, it's hard to teach unpredictable and innovative college offenses to players who needed tutors and untimed tests just to make an 18 on the ACT.
I think it's changing in Mississippi. You still have South Panola running their 4-play playbook, but this past season they had a QB who could actually operate a passing offense. Oak Grove has, for the past few years, run an innovative form of the spread to make up for their lack of size and ability. Even Meridian High under Larry Weems is looking like they might break a few records offensively. Also, more care is being taken to make sure Division 1 prospects have their schoolwork up to snuff so they can get into a four-year school.
Let's hope we have the players in place on offense that can learn the concept of "leading a receiver" and "receiver catching the ball while running".
Porkchop said:
That is why I don't think we will ever have a consistently good offense under Croom. He got lucky last year and pulled off the winning record but unless the players get allot better it's going to be hit and miss.
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in all the time between Watson Brown leaving and Jackie "retiring". Are you even close to being serious?
The reason Jackie's offenses had more success has nothing to do with playcalling. It has a ton to do with having better players, especially on the line. Last year was the first year we had any semblance of decency on the line, and even without Brown, we should be OK this year. But don't put any production on the innovative schemes of Sparky Woods and Lynn Amedee. It just helps when you have Randy Thomas, Eric Allen, Pork Chop Womack, Michael Fair, and guys like that.
The reason Jackie's offenses had more success has nothing to do with playcalling. It has a ton to do with having better players, especially on the line. Last year was the first year we had any semblance of decency on the line, and even without Brown, we should be OK this year. But don't put any production on the innovative schemes of Sparky Woods and Lynn Amedee. It just helps when you have Randy Thomas, Eric Allen, Pork Chop Womack, Michael Fair, and guys like that.
being successful early and often at MSU. 1) Clean up the program 2)Use his reputation as a stand up guy and his position as the first black coach in the SEC to recruit like a mother from day one 3)Surrond himself with good proven people that could help him make up for his lack of experience as a head coach(and recruiter) and allow them to help him. He`s half assed accomplished No. 1. Yet to SIGN the kind of recuiting class that everyone expected him to draw to MSU so scratch No.2 . And No.3 See WOODY. It`s time for him to EARN his paycheck and the 08 football season and 09 recruitng season are setting up for that to happen. If it doesn`t we`re back to square one.
I think you pretty much said it all on his ability. I have to say I bought all of the "coach speak" when he first arrived but it all changed with his "talk the talk BS" but now I am seeing much improved recruiting and you win with players alot easier than with systems. I think his lack of HC experience really told off on him from the beginning, I see this improving. No doubt his play calling is his weakness and a concern.
hard to put him in the top half of the SEC when our offense is so cavemanish. But he's definitely gotten better at the recruiting game and seems to be slowly getting pieces together.
I have marveled at how we have the ability to have games where our offense opens it up and succeeds (UK last year and UF a few years back) and then we never see that offense again.
So like I said, he's learning. Still. I wish he'd get on with it offensively.
I have marveled at how we have the ability to have games where our offense opens it up and succeeds (UK last year and UF a few years back) and then we never see that offense again.
So like I said, he's learning. Still. I wish he'd get on with it offensively.
1) It's not that Croom is doing things right suddenly, it's just that enough teams are finally doing things wrong. So until other teams quit screwing up against Croom, Croom should be near the bottom in the SEC HC rankings.
2) Coach34's bait & switch: "Crooms is okay (bait), but I'll always justifiably denigrate him & Miss. State because I just can't get behind a coach & program that doesn't run the type of offense I think they should (switch)."
To sum up:
1) It's impossible to tell if Croom is actually a good coach, because it's getting to where too many teams are beginning to make mistakes vs. Croom. Therefore we should err on the side of caution & list Croom near the bottom.
Once the other SEC teams get their **** together, our theory that Croom is a sub-par coach will more than likely be confirmed.
2) There is nothing in the world Coach34 would love more than to be able to call Crooms "Croom." But he just can't right now, and everybody that knows anything about football understands why.
2) Coach34's bait & switch: "Crooms is okay (bait), but I'll always justifiably denigrate him & Miss. State because I just can't get behind a coach & program that doesn't run the type of offense I think they should (switch)."
To sum up:
1) It's impossible to tell if Croom is actually a good coach, because it's getting to where too many teams are beginning to make mistakes vs. Croom. Therefore we should err on the side of caution & list Croom near the bottom.
Once the other SEC teams get their **** together, our theory that Croom is a sub-par coach will more than likely be confirmed.
2) There is nothing in the world Coach34 would love more than to be able to call Crooms "Croom." But he just can't right now, and everybody that knows anything about football understands why.