Yeah we aren’t wasting any money!!
- Thread starter paindonthurt
- Start date
Alright, let's examine this.
Your 'waste fraud abuse' mantra is aimed at the 'government'. I.e. government employees. Or at least that's how it's been portrayed, as a huge bureaucracy with crafty agents who are working together to screw people over. So let's start with that mindset. And we have elected officials who run to 'stop the fraud' and 'punish the bureaucrats'.
For the record, I absolutely agree with you about this Minnesota case. It's fraudulent. But who is at fault? I'd first say the elected officials who stood up the program. Check. Secondly, the actual criminals who defrauded the MN government. That's it, period.
So get mad at the correct people.....your elected officials who stand up dubmass programs, and the people who defile them. Government employees are often the ONLY thing standing in the way of more fraud than there already is. Perhaps some of them are dumb, or lazy, or both....but they GENERALLY aren't committing fraud (there are exceptions, like Nancy New and Co., but I think even she was appointed not hired).
And yet ya'll want LESS IRS agents.
Your 'waste fraud abuse' mantra is aimed at the 'government'. I.e. government employees. Or at least that's how it's been portrayed, as a huge bureaucracy with crafty agents who are working together to screw people over. So let's start with that mindset. And we have elected officials who run to 'stop the fraud' and 'punish the bureaucrats'.
For the record, I absolutely agree with you about this Minnesota case. It's fraudulent. But who is at fault? I'd first say the elected officials who stood up the program. Check. Secondly, the actual criminals who defrauded the MN government. That's it, period.
So get mad at the correct people.....your elected officials who stand up dubmass programs, and the people who defile them. Government employees are often the ONLY thing standing in the way of more fraud than there already is. Perhaps some of them are dumb, or lazy, or both....but they GENERALLY aren't committing fraud (there are exceptions, like Nancy New and Co., but I think even she was appointed not hired).
And yet ya'll want LESS IRS agents.
the biggest threat to democracy and the constitution in the US is Congress (probably about 70-80% of them to be fair)
prove me wrong
prove me wrong
And funny enough, they are elected by American people. Educated in American schools, raised by American parents. Oh yeah, you want to vote them out, and all that does is get another batch of American people-elected politicians, educated in American schools, raised by American parents.
At the end of the day, there's no big boogeyman. There are certainly criminals, and that's who we should be angry at, most of all. Criminals by definition are cheating the system.
Yes, the politicians wanted to enable this fraud (maybe not by these particular fraudsters, but by some fraudsters running similar schemes, although in Minnesota, probably these specific fraudsters also), but I would suspect some government employees had help designing the program to facilitate the fraud. Or at least declined to point out obvious weaknesses that could be exploited.
But the reality is that the major way to stop fraud is to just do less. You can't really solve the principle agent problems or the incentive problems with most government programs, and we should be focusing on the necessities and getting them right rather than just raping future taxpayers by keeping the money faucet running at full blast. It'd be relatively simple to consolidate welfare programs and reduce some of the worst abuses (as well as the worst designs, like implicit marginal tax rates routinely approaching if not exceeding 100%), but that doesn't happen because being effective is a secondary consideration (at best).
You’ve never heard me blame specific employees
Facts:
we spend too much money as a government. Cut the budget and you cut the fraud.
Fact:
We have too many government employees in many branches.
Fact:
Simplify the tax system and you don’t need as many irs agents
Also a fact. There is 100% guarantee an employee was involved in this fraud that I posted.
Congress might have appropriated funds but someone who works for the bureaucracy reviews and approves applications.
I hear you......but there is merit to an informed voting public.....and currently the trend is to vote for politicians that have never done anything. Never created jobs. Never built anything. just a law degree or something that will get up and say anything. We need men who are builders. We need men who have moral and ethical fabric about them that want to see prosperity, and not argue and make another law. WE have enough laws (reason Moses is on most courthouses, and overlooks the house of representatives.
but yes, we continue to do the same thing b/c real men are not standing up
it's like you almost have to be crazy to choose to put yourself through what politics will do to you
Nancy wasn't even appointed. She was anointed with a non-competitive, fat state contract thanks to connections and directives from the Governor's Office, the legislature, and lobbyists. Not an example of waste so much as fraud and abuse.
They certainly have absconded from their jobs for decades deciding that fellating their party was better for them than helping their constituents. And we've allowed it. Can't get rid of senator so and so he's been there a gazillion years and is on 15 committees that guarantee the pork comes to my state. And in fact if you do get rid of said senator the next highest ranking member will take over and send that money to his/her state. Basically states playing the longevity lottery.
It has nothing to do with where they were raised or educated. It has 100% to do with who they've been bought by and/or forced to join in with.
I know people personally that have been in politics at the state level. It's a system.
Unless you are a billionaire, you can't afford to run for office without the support of whatever party you're running for. To get that support (commercials, media, social media, etc) you have to "align" with current candidates. => Play the game the way they want you to or you don't get to play. It would be virtually impossible to break that chain because people don't want to believe their party has a chain.
I have yet to ever hear a legitimate and honest person say there is no wasted money.
Reducing waste is a good general goal. At the same time, if the cost to reduce waste exceeds the cost of said waste, then perhaps that isnt a good use of time and money.
Same goes for fraud- if it costs more to reduce the fraud that it costs for the fraud to exist, then perhaps that isnt a good use of time and money.
Controversial yet pragmatic idea, I know.
What makes no sense is to totally eliminate a social benefits program that millions depend on, because there is some unknown fraud included. What makes no sense is to misrepresent who is benefitting off a social benefits program in order to gain public support through villainization of a general group of unconfirmed people(20 year old men sitting on the couch, for example).
What makes no sense is to claim fraud has been discovered when its actually just funding for a bunch of small projects that run counter to a person's political views.
When genuine fraud of taxpayer funds is identified, it should be dealt with. Perhaps it is firing people. Perhaps it is forcing people to pay back funds. Perhaps criminal charges are involved. Punishment should exist and be appropriate.
Reducing waste is a good general goal. At the same time, if the cost to reduce waste exceeds the cost of said waste, then perhaps that isnt a good use of time and money.
Same goes for fraud- if it costs more to reduce the fraud that it costs for the fraud to exist, then perhaps that isnt a good use of time and money.
Controversial yet pragmatic idea, I know.
What makes no sense is to totally eliminate a social benefits program that millions depend on, because there is some unknown fraud included. What makes no sense is to misrepresent who is benefitting off a social benefits program in order to gain public support through villainization of a general group of unconfirmed people(20 year old men sitting on the couch, for example).
What makes no sense is to claim fraud has been discovered when its actually just funding for a bunch of small projects that run counter to a person's political views.
When genuine fraud of taxpayer funds is identified, it should be dealt with. Perhaps it is firing people. Perhaps it is forcing people to pay back funds. Perhaps criminal charges are involved. Punishment should exist and be appropriate.
Sincerely please answer these 2 directly and concisely
A. Who has spent TOO MUCH money on trying to save moneu? Aka the cost to reduce exceeds cost of waste. Be very specific.
B. If I spend $1 million to save $200,000/yeat over 10 years I saved $1 million. So my cost exceeded the savings in the short term but not the long term. ROI.
A. Rs. Cuts to Healthcare to save money from "fraud". ICE getting those funds instead. Easy example we can all see as overkill.
B. That's not a question - so I won't be concise.
But Opportunity lost means opportunity cost means you might have spent that 1 million better elsewhere to be 10 year 100% return. In standard investing that's 7.178% compound yearly interest. Average ETFs are like 10% before adjusting for inflation. You lost $500k to stock market performance.
So Biden tried to sell, and therefore profit from, a wall that Mexico paid for. Sounds like a smart decision- profit off of something that was paid by another country.
^ I figured a dumb tweet deserved a pointed yet dumb response.
Whether it's 10 or 10,000 IRS agents, they are only going to find what they are told to find.
Shame on you. I put my utmost trust in the accuracy and validity of the End Wokeness twitter feed as should anyone looking for rational thought and objective truth.****
In the end though, they find mistakes.
It isnt like there is some massive ring of IRS agents who are forging documents to frame people for tax fraud, tax evasion, etc.
Since that isnt happening, they are therefore finding mistakes. The mistakes could be oversight, misunderstanding, intentional fraud, etc. The intent is irrelevant to this point. The point is, they are finding mistakes when they find what they are told to find.
So if you complain about IRS agents finding what they are told to find, you are upset that they are enforcing laws. You are upset that they are making people follow laws.