Zunkel At It Again
- Thread starter cornerrat
- Start date
Legally per NCAA rules a formal scholarship offer can not be extended to someone that young. We see it attempted at 14u baseball a lot - what if amounts to is a kid gets invited to see the college and is out on a preferred recruit list but a formal scholarship offer can't be extended and cannot be signed.
The Wilkey girl at Reed Custer verballed to Northwestern softball in the fall of her freshmen year...
Wasn't the Boatright kid the one that verballed to USC his 8th grade year???
Wasn't the Boatright kid the one that verballed to USC his 8th grade year???
CCL'r. look at what I said specifically in response to a specific question/statement from another poster, had I seen other coaches at youth game? I said the only one I specifically saw at a youth game was Naz and that I had not seen others. That was in response to a comment of widespread coaches attending youth games. Since apparently someone walking around in a Naz jacket is recruiting.
Normdog,
Perhaps it's a parent of a youth player in the organization that also has a student at Naz?! What youth program are you claiming to see this person recruiting?
Perhaps it's a parent of a youth player in the organization that also has a student at Naz?! What youth program are you claiming to see this person recruiting?
HHS - Every single high school should be recruiting grade school kids whether they are public or private schools. Each school should be making a case that kids should attend the school, families should move to the school district, etc. It keeps the school sharp.
My local public high school has administrators visit all the local grade schools - private and public. They talk about the school and make the case that it is great school with a rigorous academic program and is well rounded extracurricularly (I may have just made that word up)- blame my Catholic schooling) and athletically .
Also offering a college scholarship to a 14 year old is very different than having that player sign a Letter of Intent. Look at Jack Beneventi.
My local public high school has administrators visit all the local grade schools - private and public. They talk about the school and make the case that it is great school with a rigorous academic program and is well rounded extracurricularly (I may have just made that word up)- blame my Catholic schooling) and athletically .
Also offering a college scholarship to a 14 year old is very different than having that player sign a Letter of Intent. Look at Jack Beneventi.
Maybe, if they live in an apartment. No but they should be going to Naperville, Bolingbrook youth games to remind the kids in their district that they want them to be a Raider.
That's not the point... Colleges are still recruiting these kids at an early age.. We had an SEC coach at a 14U tournament a few weeks ago, he said they are currently working on the 2019 class, 2017 and 2018 are basically done..
They can come - legally their offer is not binding. A verbal is just that. It has no legal grounds as an affirmed agreement between a student and a school. Kid cannot sign until he or she is a senior. Everyone is "building" their future recruiting plan. Showing interest isn't the same thing as making a serious offer which they can't do.
Yeah, I get that... All I am saying is that schools do recruit kids at that age.. So if a college feels comfortable doing it and most wasting their time, it's not to hard to feel that high schools can too
Is this recruiting? YES! Is it Illegal? Should this school be punished?
Cuing Ethan Supplee (guess the movie). In seriousness, if it is a high profile program, why not, but those kids from other districts would have a target on their back, not so much from fellow students but probably a Bolingbrook parent whose kids lose playing time and exposure as a result.
Hmmm never heard of him but apparently has been in a number of movies that ive seen. Given the topic I'll say Remember the Titans.
However, no, I dont think we should be in Darien or Lemont recruiting. Not Trojan field either, sadly for different reasons... Everyone plays Patriots now.
But on another note Montini, Naz, Benet, JCA should be. And because of that important difference i agree with the split. Although weve tried theres no way to compare these apples and oranges.
This is a football forum. Show me a football player offered in 8th grade. Moron.
There's plenty.
1) 8th-Grade Quarterback Harrison Bailey Receives Scholarship Offer from Miami
2) Florida State First Power 5 Team to Offer Scholarship to 8th-Grade QB
Drew Pyne
3) Eighth grader Owen Pappoe gets 11th scholarship offer from Florida State
These are all 8th graders offers this year and the list goes on.
Just as I suspected. If the graphic I posted had been from Mt. Carmel, Rita, or Providence the outrage would have flowed, but this is a 2A public school in southern Illinois. I'll ask again. This is definitely tangible evidence of recruiting. These are future students. Should this school be punished?
I disagree. The public schools in 7A/ 8A almost never complain about private schools and recruiting. They only state the fact that its different. Actually in 7A/8A its reverse where more private schools complain about public schools and unfair treatment.
Now to your point, had that been Montini, Naz, or JC you are right, all hell would have broken loose.
Is this recruiting? YES! Is it Illegal? Should this school be punished?
Murderer's Row right there. How did Montini not get Owens?
Is this recruiting? YES! Is it Illegal? Should this school be punished?
So are you not going to mention the story and context behind this, or are you just going to try and spin a narrative?
Not sure if that matters. The point of bringing up 8th graders was to point out that if Universities can look at a kid and think he will have what it takes to play for them, certainly a high school coach can do the same. Who knows the success rate but, you can't pretend like its not possible. I am really having a hard time understanding why people are trying to pretend like recruiting don't exist. It's really a good thing for kids to be able to choose what they want. Only schools and fans in Illinois make a big deal out of nothing.
I agree with the split so rules that hinder kids for the sake of not gaining competitive advantage can go away.
Separate athletic associations, yes. Separate classes governed and administered by the IHSA, not in a million years.
No, I don't get into that kind of stuff, too many ways around it. (Some people hand their bill to sponsor). A kid paying full tuition doesn't exempt them from being recruited.
It is just simply changing the student mind or reassuring their decision through communication.
Since you are all knowing, you can talk to any kid and sell them on the overall merits of your school as long as you are not offering or talking to them about any special entitlements. Some of the private schools do have a great academic reputation and can sell kids on that.
Beginning this fall, private schools may now begin also sell their greater flexibility regarding school discipline. The IL School Code was amended, effective in August, regarding suspensions and expulsions in public schools. Non-publics can continue to cut offending students loose, while the publics will consume time and resources to create "alternative learning structures" or merely return them sooner to regular classrooms with the rule-abiding student body.
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
QBC and others. Try reading the IHSA bylaws, specifically section 3.070, and more specifically section 3.071 which says:
"Recruitment of students or attempted recruitment of students for athletic purposes is prohibited, regardless of their residence."
Also section 3.073 which says:
"It shall be a violation of this rule to induce or attempt to induce or encourage any prospective student to attend any participant school for the purpose of participating in athletics even when special renumeration or inducement is not given."
Not sure it can be made more clear than this.
http://www.ihsa.org/abouttheihsa/constitutionbylawspolicies.aspx
So, based on this reference, should Camp Point Central, a small public school in Illinois be punished for their obvious football recruiting propaganda shown above? Or is it only Mt. Carmel, Loyola, Providence, St. Rita, Joliet Catholic and Montini that should be scrutinized from a recruiting perspective?
This is not a post to point the finger at Central but to start a realistic conversation. I actually believe it's awesome what their doing for their kids and excitement around the program. I would definately utilize techniques like that if I were in a program like Herscher, per se. However, based on the letter of the law, the signing day promo above is a recruiting tactic for 8th grade football players in that district. I don't see the rest of the incoming class of "regular" students represented. So what should be the punishment if any? Eligibility? Coaches punished? Wins vacated?
Can you actually recruit a kid that's already in your district????? What you said there makes zero sense..
And why even bring up Herscher? We do things like that, but we have to or risk them possibly going to Mac..
I disagree with the term obvious football recruiting propaganda. The reality is we don't know how and when the document posted was created. It is very real for that small town to have pre registration for 9th grade for all District middle schools. During registration, there could be an activity questionnaire that ask what sports or activities are you interested in for High school. This is important to identify for several reason in which sports physical is the most important. Now let's say the coach or coaches were at registration as had every kid that signed up for that sport to meet for information. At this time, the coach let them put the jersey on and took a picture before or after he explained the summer conditioning and calendar of events. In this case, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a coach highlighting the kids that signed up to play his sport after pre registration. Right now, just posting a picture is not enough for someone to accurately convict someone of recruiting.. Details are needed to make a sound judgement.
"It shall be a violation of this rule to induce or attempt to induce or encourage any prospective student to attend any participant school for the purpose of participating in athletics even when special renumeration or inducement is not given."
I'm guilty of using Herscher as an example just to get a rise out of you. But Yes, it absolutely makes sense! Public schools can be guilty of and SHOULD be recruiting to keep kids in their district or properly matriculate from the community public feeder schools. In all sports. That may prevent some families from moving to say, Bradley or... enrolling in Bishop Mac.
The same coach that posted this promo has been very visible at Youth football games in the community and is actively courting 7th grade football players as we speak.
You are arguing semantics/timing now. The bottom line is if that promo, which I think is awesome for the Panthers' program, had a Crusader, Road Runner, or Friar logo on it; or if it was produced by Zinnani, Lenti, or Dunne, you'd have a completely different take on it. You'd be calling for heads to roll and immediate action be taken. But because it's not the CCL or ESCC your take on it is soft.
I can't wait for summer basketball to start so I can sit next to the coaches from Morgan Park, Simeon, and Whitney Young watch 6th - 8th graders in Hinsdale, Darien, Richton Park, and Lansing.
My argument is embrace it or eliminate it. But don't act like the public schools aren't doing it, at all levels and statewide.
I'm guilty of using Herscher as an example just to get a rise out of you. But Yes, it absolutely makes sense! Public schools can be guilty of and SHOULD be recruiting to keep kids in their district or properly matriculate from the community public feeder schools. In all sports. That may prevent some families from moving to say, Bradley or... enrolling in Bishop Mac.
The same coach that posted this promo has been very visible at Youth football games in the community and is actively courting 7th grade football players as we speak.
You are arguing semantics/timing now. The bottom line is if that promo, which I think is awesome for the Panthers' program, had a Crusader, Road Runner, or Friar logo on it; or if it was produced by Zinnani, Lenti, or Dunne, you'd have a completely different take on it. You'd be calling for heads to roll and immediate action be taken. But because it's not the CCL or ESCC your take on it is soft.
I can't wait for summer basketball to start so I can sit next to the coaches from Morgan Park, Simeon, and Whitney Young watch 6th - 8th graders in Hinsdale, Darien, Richton Park, and Lansing.
My argument is embrace it or eliminate it. But don't act like the public schools aren't doing it, at all levels and statewide.
Is that a promo??? Or simply a motivational attempt within the program??? Sorry, it's apples and oranges..
You're absolutely right it's motivation. Motivation to be a football player at Camp Point Central and not a football player at Quincy Notre Dame. QND better raise their marketing game in the Camp Point area.
Comparison is more like Red Delicious vs. Granny Smith. Same Genus and Family different look, feel, taste, and touch.
Recruiting none the less! Light the torches, grab the pitchforks! I want someone held accountable for this atrocity.
Comparison is more like Red Delicious vs. Granny Smith. Same Genus and Family different look, feel, taste, and touch.
Recruiting none the less! Light the torches, grab the pitchforks! I want someone held accountable for this atrocity.
Seems you are assuming a whole lot based on how JCA operates..
In our case, we don't "recruit" our junior high kids to play football or any other sport at HHS... Just like at most downstate schools, the only time there is any "recruiting" going on by the public school is when the local Catholic school is making a push for the kid to attend their school, then it's likely a phone call to the kids parent will be made..