Clemson/NCST basketball and Will Wade…

MaxCalifornia said:

Seems like Wade had his guys denying passes into high post the entire game and daring us to beat them from the perimeter. Brad loves to use the high post and let our offense run through Welling, Davidson, and Godfrey. Was that what happened and I’m not sure why we didn’t adjust? @OrangeBandit and other basketball guys please explain what threw us off so badly last night. Obviously, we played terrible and made tons of bad turnovers, but the offense was a mess. That’s 2 times Will Wade has done something different on defense and we never really solved it. Last year he used that junk defense with McNeese and we weren’t ready for that.

This needs to be a long post but I’m at work. The crux of what happened is they switch all screens and denied 1 pass away. We got big/small mismatches left and right and threw the ball away repeatedly and had guards who couldn’t create their own shot vs Lubin and Williams which is an indictment. We then tried it out and play 1 on 1 basketball, which is NC State’s style and didn’t have the talent to win those battles. We had very little of the ball movement, very little movement when penetrating (circle movement). We were TERRIBLY stagnant which is the worse thing you can do vs an athletic defense. That’s playing directly into their hands. No rub cuts, very few backdoor cuts (did you even watch the UVA game?), terrible angles for attack and passing into contested passing lanes. Just a really lazy approach and terrible execution for a team and staff that are way better than that. Hopefully we learn from this because if I’m opposing coach I watch this game and consider defending us the same way.

I think teams would be stupid to not continue to double us in the post and make anyone not named Porter hit 3s

^ yup yup! OB nailed it. I had a bad feeling going into the game for a variety of reasons. It’s Will Wade and he’s a crafty SoB, plus coming “home” to play @clemson for first time with NCSt. But, on top of that, our winning streaks(in total, @Home ACC games, etc) were getting really long and it’s human nature to start taking things for granted and assuming you’ll just continue to win and inadvertently(even subconsciously) slacking off just a smidge. Hopefully it’s a one-off and a wake up call for players and staff and we get another win streak going.

OrangeBandit said:

This needs to be a long post but I’m at work. The crux of what happened is they switch all screens and denied 1 pass away. We got big/small mismatches left and right and threw the ball away repeatedly and had guards who couldn’t create their own shot vs Lubin and Williams which is an indictment. We then tried it out and play 1 on 1 basketball, which is NC State’s style and didn’t have the talent to win those battles. We had very little of the ball movement, very little movement when penetrating (circle movement). We were TERRIBLY stagnant which is the worse thing you can do vs an athletic defense. That’s playing directly into their hands. No rub cuts, very few backdoor cuts (did you even watch the UVA game?), terrible angles for attack and passing into contested passing lanes. Just a really lazy approach and terrible execution for a team and staff that are way better than that. Hopefully we learn from this because if I’m opposing coach I watch this game and consider defending us the same way.

The 4 guys passing around the perimeter, while trying to get it inside, and not making cuts (basically standing still after passing the ball) was infuriating. As you mentioned, playing a team as long and athletic as State, you have to move without the ball in your hands. And the skip passes against a team like that is a big no no, can't believe we had so many turnovers trying to throw the ball to the other side of the court instead of moving and working it around. LAZY basketball

What I saw last night is what I saw at the end of last year. Clemson has some decent athletes, but no really high quality basketball players. What wa it, 8-10 free throws missed? That’s the game. Three point shooting was way off. Ball handling and turnovers were bad. They do fine with mediocre teams. They have no answer for really solid basketball teams. They were up by 3 at one minute mark and couldn’t score a dagger basket. Just slightly above average team.

OrangeBandit said:

This needs to be a long post but I’m at work. The crux of what happened is they switch all screens and denied 1 pass away. We got big/small mismatches left and right and threw the ball away repeatedly and had guards who couldn’t create their own shot vs Lubin and Williams which is an indictment. We then tried it out and play 1 on 1 basketball, which is NC State’s style and didn’t have the talent to win those battles. We had very little of the ball movement, very little movement when penetrating (circle movement). We were TERRIBLY stagnant which is the worse thing you can do vs an athletic defense. That’s playing directly into their hands. No rub cuts, very few backdoor cuts (did you even watch the UVA game?), terrible angles for attack and passing into contested passing lanes. Just a really lazy approach and terrible execution for a team and staff that are way better than that. Hopefully we learn from this because if I’m opposing coach I watch this game and consider defending us the same way.

The backdoor cuts looked to be open all night.

OrangeBandit said:

This needs to be a long post but I’m at work. The crux of what happened is they switch all screens and denied 1 pass away. We got big/small mismatches left and right and threw the ball away repeatedly and had guards who couldn’t create their own shot vs Lubin and Williams which is an indictment. We then tried it out and play 1 on 1 basketball, which is NC State’s style and didn’t have the talent to win those battles. We had very little of the ball movement, very little movement when penetrating (circle movement). We were TERRIBLY stagnant which is the worse thing you can do vs an athletic defense. That’s playing directly into their hands. No rub cuts, very few backdoor cuts (did you even watch the UVA game?), terrible angles for attack and passing into contested passing lanes. Just a really lazy approach and terrible execution for a team and staff that are way better than that. Hopefully we learn from this because if I’m opposing coach I watch this game and consider defending us the same way.

I kinda think we were mentally drained after the last few games against good teams. Not a great spot to be playing an also pretty good NC State team.

rshbpbc said:

What I saw last night is what I saw at the end of last year. Clemson has some decent athletes, but no really high quality basketball players. What wa it, 8-10 free throws missed? That’s the game. Three point shooting was way off. Ball handling and turnovers were bad. They do fine with mediocre teams. They have no answer for really solid basketball teams. They were up by 3 at one minute mark and couldn’t score a dagger basket. Just slightly above average team.

Come on, guy. These types of posts where people act like we’re only as good as our last loss are tiresome. We’ve played multiple teams at least as good as NC State this year, and either beaten them or been close to beating them. That’s not a “just slightly above average team.”

In all honesty outside of the turnovers which were mostly self inflicted from just dumb passes we never make. We weren’t bad offensively contrary to our normal offensive output. Defensively we got shredded all game. They got open look after open look

That's exactly right! We played into their hands and just kept repeating over and over. It was maddening. The rub cuts and backdoors were there and I couldn't understand why we weren't being coached hard to do it. Maybe we were but it's frustrating to watch the same thing happen and we just try harder to make a pass that is being denied. I didn't think it was just a down game or we looked tired or something. We were just really stagnant and flat-footed and I think it's because we didn't seem to know how to attack them effectively.

I imagine with limited time between games we practiced predominantly for their press, iirc they didn't press much.

rshbpbc said:

What I saw last night is what I saw at the end of last year. Clemson has some decent athletes, but no really high quality basketball players. What wa it, 8-10 free throws missed? That’s the game. Three point shooting was way off. Ball handling and turnovers were bad. They do fine with mediocre teams. They have no answer for really solid basketball teams. They were up by 3 at one minute mark and couldn’t score a dagger basket. Just slightly above average team.

So Miami, BYU, UGA and Bama are "average" teams? You lost me

We can't shoot from 3 when we need it. We can't make free throws. (generally and especially when we need them) We have no 'go to' guy in crunch time. I think we've done pretty well so far, considering.

Yesterday's game doesn't much concern me (other than continuing to remind me that I Hate Will Wade). As a season goes along, good coaches evaluate your tendencies and weaknesses and come up with new wrinkles to attack them. Brownell's job is to find the best counters to those attacks and help his team overcome them going forward. We were never going undefeated in the ACC anyway (duh!). I will be looking specifically at the next 4 games @ GT, home against Pitt and then the West Coast road trip to tell me a lot about this team. If we see teams that are frankly not as good as NC State replicating elements of its game plan and beating us, then we've got a problem. On the other hand, if we see our guys doing what they've done for the past month- taking coaching and executing the counters taught by the staff- then we will still be in good shape for a great season. NC State exposed some of the known limitations of our team- it's actually a good growth opportunity for the Tigers.

Or if we make a few more free throws this is a learning experience after a win vs a loss. Of all people to lose to, it’s that cocksucker Will Wade but there’s no need to freak out long term

OrangeBandit said:

This needs to be a long post but I’m at work. The crux of what happened is they switch all screens and denied 1 pass away. We got big/small mismatches left and right and threw the ball away repeatedly and had guards who couldn’t create their own shot vs Lubin and Williams which is an indictment. We then tried it out and play 1 on 1 basketball, which is NC State’s style and didn’t have the talent to win those battles. We had very little of the ball movement, very little movement when penetrating (circle movement). We were TERRIBLY stagnant which is the worse thing you can do vs an athletic defense. That’s playing directly into their hands. No rub cuts, very few backdoor cuts (did you even watch the UVA game?), terrible angles for attack and passing into contested passing lanes. Just a really lazy approach and terrible execution for a team and staff that are way better than that. Hopefully we learn from this because if I’m opposing coach I watch this game and consider defending us the same way.

Great post, thanks for the breakdown

CU_4734 said:

Or if we make a few more free throws this is a learning experience after a win vs a loss. Of all people to lose to, it’s that ********** Will Wade but there’s no need to freak out long term

We may have won if RJ just makes that and-1 in regulation.

tgrharley said:

So Miami, BYU, UGA and Bama are "average" teams? You lost me

We've played 5 Q1 teams and won 2 of those, with three losses. All three losses have been very close. But we're just slightly above average.

Blowing the BYU game was a huge missed opportunity

MaxCalifornia said:

The backdoor cuts looked to be open all night.

They would have been if were had actually cut as we drove. Especially in the ball side. The weak side flashes to the middle and on the base line were also there. Even as bad as we played, if we just make a few of our wide arse open shots and don’t simultaneously suck at the FT line then we win which is encouraging in a weird and unsatisfying way.

ChicagoTiger85 said:

We may have won if RJ just makes that and-1 in regulation.

Almost air balled the FT. It hit the under side of the front of the rim. We looked completely gassed down the stretch.

MaxCalifornia said:

Seems like Wade had his guys denying passes into high post the entire game and daring us to beat them from the perimeter. Brad loves to use the high post and let our offense run through Welling, Davidson, and Godfrey. Was that what happened and I’m not sure why we didn’t adjust? @OrangeBandit and other basketball guys please explain what threw us off so badly last night. Obviously, we played terrible and made tons of bad turnovers, but the offense was a mess. That’s 2 times Will Wade has done something different on defense and we never really solved it. Last year he used that junk defense with McNeese and we weren’t ready for that.

It's called coaching.