Dabo defenders help me

The difference is Dabo was vocal abt the locker room being the portal, and it’s not easy to admit how wrong that was

DandyDozen12 said:

Understand the difference between a freshman phenom at QB (à la TL), and a QB from the portal challenging your “veteran” QB. Dabo would (he has) take a promising QB from high school and give him the chance to beat out seniors who he is “loyal to. Why not the same logic with the portal? What is the real difference?

5 million vs 1 million

Orange&Purple said:

5 million vs 1 million

This is the answer

DandyDozen12 said:

Understand the difference between a freshman phenom at QB (à la TL), and a QB from the portal challenging your “veteran” QB. Dabo would (he has) take a promising QB from high school and give him the chance to beat out seniors who he is “loyal to. Why not the same logic with the portal? What is the real difference?

Not defending one or the other with this premise. If you spend substantial money on a portal, you are expecting and he is expecting to be the starter. It also creates that expectation publicly and leads the returning player to conclude he is not in the plans. There are psychological differences all around. And pressure to play the highly compensated player to justify the resources allocated -- just as we see in the NFL. HS kid has to earn the job. Swinney's program and culture have always relied on "earning" things to keep order. Now, we can debate certain things that have been "earned." But that's the principle.

The Mixed Mamba said:

The difference is Dabo was vocal abt the locker room being the portal, and it’s not easy to admit how wrong that was

That's exactly right. Dabo's pride is fckin with him.

Merry Christmas everyone. Buckle up for 2026!

Paul Strelow said:

Not defending one or the other with this premise. If you spend substantial money on a portal, you are expecting and he is expecting to be the starter. It also creates that expectation publicly and leads the returning player to conclude he is not in the plans. There are psychological differences all around. And pressure to play the highly compensated player to justify the resources allocated -- just as we see in the NFL. HS kid has to earn the job. Swinney's program and culture have always relied on "earning" things to keep order. Now, we can debate certain things that have been "earned." But that's the principle.

Right. Vizzina hasn’t earned the starting quarterback spot based just on the fact he has been on the team for four years. Know that’s what you were implying

Orange&Purple said:

5 million vs 1 million

Dabo won't even pay recruits $1M. There's a reason we suck at HS recruiting. If we aren't going to land them from HS, we have no choice but to pay them in the portal. You can't win without good QB play.

Howard's Jock said:

Merry Christmas everyone. Buckle up for 2026!

And, you Bro!! Merry Christmas Cameron! LOVING those roasted Pecans!!!!!!!!

TigerDeal said:

This is the answer

So losing is worth $4m? How much does winning bring in? but that wasn’t the question. The question is on principle.

Paul Strelow said:

Not defending one or the other with this premise. If you spend substantial money on a portal, you are expecting and he is expecting to be the starter. It also creates that expectation publicly and leads the returning player to conclude he is not in the plans. There are psychological differences all around. And pressure to play the highly compensated player to justify the resources allocated -- just as we see in the NFL. HS kid has to earn the job. Swinney's program and culture have always relied on "earning" things to keep order. Now, we can debate certain things that have been "earned." But that's the principle.

But if the portal QB for some reason gets beat out, you pay him and keep moving with presumably the best QB you have on your roster. What’s the difference. Let’s say we paid $5m to a killer QB, CV stays and just lights it up and we bench the portal QB. Who cares. We the money is a sunk cost at that point and fans will be happy with whatever is the best QB play we can get. It’s not exactly the same, but look no further than Ole Miss. two portal players sure, but the less expected one is playing now. No one there is complaining (except maybe Simmons). But who cares.

DandyDozen12 said:

Understand the difference between a freshman phenom at QB (à la TL), and a QB from the portal challenging your “veteran” QB. Dabo would (he has) take a promising QB from high school and give him the chance to beat out seniors who he is “loyal to. Why not the same logic with the portal? What is the real difference?

Dandy you’ve been here a minute and I’d to think you understand the new landscape! What are you willing to donate to help Clemson pay for the QB you want?

Dutch_Peacheater said:

Right. Vizzina hasn’t earned the starting quarterback spot based just on the fact he has been on the team for four years. Know that’s what you were implying

We honestly don't know what happens during practices or how well Vizzina is playing or not playing. We get snippets of what is said by coaches but not the true picture. What we do know is that freshmen, unless they are phenoms, generally aren't ready for the speed of the game and mentally aren't ready to be the leader of the team. Did anyone think that Gunner Stockton was ready to lead Georgia into the playoffs this year considering how he looked last year?

metalman82 said:

We honestly don't know what happens during practices or how well Vizzina is playing or not playing. We get snippets of what is said by coaches but not the true picture. What we do know is that freshmen, unless they are phenoms, generally aren't ready for the speed of the game and mentally aren't ready to be the leader of the team. Did anyone think that Gunner Stockton was ready to lead Georgia into the playoffs this year considering how he looked last year?

Pay up to get the players you expect to be at Clemson!

There's a difference between the reality of things and how they must be carefully navigated versus spreadsheet football team building. TI is filled with the latter and very little understanding of the former.

Willence said:

There's a difference between the reality of things and how they must be carefully navigated versus spreadsheet football team building. TI is filled with the latter and very little understanding of the former.

Good point, the mass exodus when CV is the guy. Got it

DandyDozen12 said:

Good point, the mass exodus when CV is the guy. Got it

Right. CV has become a referendum situation on the bigger picture of Dabo and whether or not hell adjust to reality. The early signs are…. not positive.

metalman82 said:

We honestly don't know what happens during practices or how well Vizzina is playing or not playing. We get snippets of what is said by coaches but not the true picture. What we do know is that freshmen, unless they are phenoms, generally aren't ready for the speed of the game and mentally aren't ready to be the leader of the team. Did anyone think that Gunner Stockton was ready to lead Georgia into the playoffs this year considering how he looked last year?

Yes I did because the players around him are strong. They got the WR from USC, real one, and a couple good RBs. They also have a really good OL, plus a very good defense. There is also competition for playing time throughout the team, unlike Clemson. Kirby, don’t like him, runs their program the way we should be, other than the arrests.

It’s Christmas, some of you need to log off for a few days and enjoy life.

Paul Strelow said:

Not defending one or the other with this premise. If you spend substantial money on a portal, you are expecting and he is expecting to be the starter. It also creates that expectation publicly and leads the returning player to conclude he is not in the plans. There are psychological differences all around. And pressure to play the highly compensated player to justify the resources allocated -- just as we see in the NFL. HS kid has to earn the job. Swinney's program and culture have always relied on "earning" things to keep order. Now, we can debate certain things that have been "earned." But that's the principle.

I agree. This is certainly debatable, but it begs the question. Why wouldn't you pay big money for a DW4 or TL16 out of HS, if warranted? You know, the consensus "stud" QB. Personally, I'd rather sign the best QB in out if HS and while you'll have to eventually pay him more, he's yours and as long as you pay him he will likely stay. Most of these guys transferring weren't the best out of HS, maybe are on a losing team and want to compete for championship or they simply just want to make as much money as possible. I still think there's more of the first two examples rather than the last. What do you think? Would you grab the absolute best QB out of HS, pay him as much as you can afford or are willing, and sell out to him for 3 years or do you just constantly keep getting older QB's for a year or two?

cusparky said:

Dandy you’ve been here a minute and I’d to think you understand the new landscape! What are you willing to donate to help Clemson pay for the QB you want?

I am more than happy to contribute more if I knew the money would be distributed appropriately, but it is not. We are about to promote Nolan Turner instead of going outside the program for new ideas. I get Allen Jr, but not two unproven head coaches. Add Boulware, Boyd, McDaniel and lol! Now add that Dabo is not fully adapting to CFB and people within the building are questioning him, Clemson will not get a single dollar more. The ROI is not there. We are Life Donors but refuse to add anymore thanks to the current environment Dabo has created. Show significant progress towards adapting and we will begin to contribute more again.

This is going to be a daily discussion until January or until week 1 depending on Dabo's decision. No realistic fan does not think their needs to be some quality portal additions and I think most fans would welcome a ready to go, proven QB. There are a few scenarios that can play out 1. Go get a proven QB which is not looking likely at this point especially if their is no attrition at the position. 2. Go the Oklahoma route and build the defense and have a solid enough offense to score enough similar to the Clemson season with KB. Let Allen build his defense using the portal to fill holes and play dominant defense. Easier said than done 3. Vizzina surprises everyone like Sayin and Simpson did this year...both Bama and OSU fans were screaming for a portal QB b/c their fans were not confident in either and did not think they were the guys...now both are still in the playoffs and had solid seasons playing within the system. I would not say either are elite but they are above average college QBs, play within the system, and get the ball to their playmakers. Deboer and Day pretty much always max out the talent of their QBs. Now, can Clemson do that? Was it Cade, Riley, or a combo of the two? Riley sure got the most out of Buechele, Mordecai and Duggan. All improved under his coaching. Here is the issue with #2 and #3, if they stick with Vizzina, can we pay Wesco, Moore, and Brown enough to trust the process and stay at Clemson. Will there be attrition? I think the deal we struck with Brown last season keeps him on campus. The Moore's built a house in Clemson from what I've been told and the family and Moore are very happy so that's a good sign, but no idea where Wesco's mindset is. Again...most important offseason ever for Dabo

charlestontiger417 said:

I am more than happy to contribute more if I knew the money would be distributed appropriately, but it is not. We are about to promote Nolan Turner instead of going outside the program for new ideas. I get Allen Jr, but not two unproven head coaches. Add Boulware, Boyd, McDaniel and lol! Now add that Dabo is not fully adapting to CFB and people within the building are questioning him, Clemson will not get a single dollar more. The ROI is not there. We are Life Donors but refuse to add anymore thanks to the current environment Dabo has created. Show significant progress towards adapting and we will begin to contribute more again.

I am not in a position to contribute, but given the overall scenario of college football I probably wouldn’t contribute one cent even if I won the $1.6B powerball. Unless it was to help blow it all up. It maybe would be fun to pick a team that’s terrible at basketball and overpay a bunch of portal players just to make a mockery of the entire system.

charlestontiger417 said:

I am more than happy to contribute more if I knew the money would be distributed appropriately, but it is not. We are about to promote Nolan Turner instead of going outside the program for new ideas. I get Allen Jr, but not two unproven head coaches. Add Boulware, Boyd, McDaniel and lol! Now add that Dabo is not fully adapting to CFB and people within the building are questioning him, Clemson will not get a single dollar more. The ROI is not there. We are Life Donors but refuse to add anymore thanks to the current environment Dabo has created. Show significant progress towards adapting and we will begin to contribute more again.

I actually have no problem with Boulware or McDaniel. McDaniel has had opportunities to leave for decent jobs. Boulware is one of the best at film diagnosis and picking up tendencies that has ever played at Clemson. Being that Allen is a LB guy, he's being mentored by one of the best. He's intense and he's passionate and he knows Xs and Os. McDaniel has been here a decade and spent a lot of time under Venables. Not all former players are bad hires. But a lot are...no questioning that. But McDaniel could be coaching at a lot of spots in a bigger role.Boulware, not so much, but with him being under Allen, I am ok with it and no one can sell Clemson like Boulware. Dude loves Clemson and always has The Turner promotion is a head scratcher and I love Turner. Have always been a Turner fan and when he committed I constantly pointed out that the dude was a 7A all state athlete in Alabama so he was no bum. But this is a position we can and should do better if indeed he is promoted to that role.

tigerwoodnc said:

Yes I did because the players around him are strong. They got the WR from USC, real one, and a couple good RBs. They also have a really good OL, plus a very good defense. There is also competition for playing time throughout the team, unlike Clemson. Kirby, don’t like him, runs their program the way we should be, other than the arrests.

Gunner has been developed extremely well at UGA. They aren't the most talented team by far in the playoffs, but their players are developed well and are as tough as nails both mentally and physically. Sometimes, you just have to give credit where credit is due.