Lane Kiffin's discussion of the 4th & 1 Play

Really good stuff there, thanks for posting

DawgsFanatic said:

Thought this was some interesting insight.

If you listened to Kirby yesterday, he literally said that before the play, what their plans were. If no gain or lost yardage, kick FG, anything else where 1st was gained, they were going tempo

gdawg24 said:

If you listened to Kirby yesterday, he literally said that before the play, what their plans were. If no gain or lost yardage, kick FG, anything else where 1st was gained, they were going tempo

Well aware, everything I have seen since the game makes me agree with the call more. Just needed execution.

DawgsFanatic said:

Well aware, everything I have seen since the game makes me agree with the call more. Just needed execution.

Oh, I hated the call before I even knew what we ran. Considering how that game had gone getting it tied would have been huge. But I appreciated the explanation of how it all breaks down in that moment. And I think the pros and cons were something just about everyone already knows. I think coaches are taking too much of the feel of the game out of decision making. I mean deciding to do all that almost on auto pilot based on a plan in place before the game even kicked off is not the best plan in my humble opinion. Just one more example of analytics just being given to much wait in critical situations.

Good listen… except for “Hunter” lol

scottmac1972 said:

Oh, I hated the call before I even knew what we ran. Considering how that game had gone getting it tied would have been huge. But I appreciated the explanation of how it all breaks down in that moment. And I think the pros and cons were something just about everyone already knows. I think coaches are taking too much of the feel of the game out of decision making. I mean deciding to do all that almost on auto pilot based on a plan in place before the game even kicked off is not the best plan in my humble opinion. Just one more example of analytics just being given to much wait in critical situations.

Totally, I understand both sides. Was very frustrating not tying the game up. My thought process is you gain one yard and your odds of scoring and taking the lead skyrocket. Then you need to make a stop to win. If you kick the field goal, you need a stop and you need to drive the field and score again to take the lead.

DawgsFanatic said:

Well aware, everything I have seen since the game makes me agree with the call more. Just needed execution.

Looks like to me if executed correctly Cash possibly scores. But I still believe I'm going to kick it.

DawgsFanatic said:

Thought this was some interesting insight. Interesting to hear on the comms to the QB and defensive player. Is CJ Allen our defensive player?

Yeah. Risk-reward. We got the look we wanted. Totally out-schemeed them on that play. But then they out-executed us. LT Overton would look nice in a UGA jersey, but we got outspent. If he is on our team, he can’t make that play for Bama. We need to reassess how we operate in the pro-sports model.

MayberryDawg said:

Looks like to me if executed correctly Cash possibly scores. But I still believe I'm going to kick it.

If the block is made, Cash scores untouched

Thanks for sharing, always enjoy real coach talk (not press conference q&a). Nothing Kiffin said makes me feel better about the call. UGA coaches chose to go hurry up, counting on a depth-level backup RB and two frosh OL. Textbook example of ignoring "players over plays" and - as @scottmac1972 notes - prioritizing predetermined strategy over in-game context. Either count on your best athletes to make a play or kick the FG to tie it up at home woth 13 mins remaining. The crux of the issue isn't go for it or not. It's are the coaches putting the best players in position to succeed? Doubling down later in the game with the 3rd and 9 call shows Bobo has a blindspot when it comes to understanding his personnel and game circumstances.

One of the most important things he mentioned is that there's 'give and take there.' As a great man has said, there aren't solutions, there are trade-offs. I was for kicking it at the time, but I absolutely can understand the logic of going for it.

Billy Zane said:

One of the most important things he mentioned is that there's 'give and take there.' As a great man has said, there aren't solutions, there are trade-offs. I was for kicking it at the time, but I absolutely can understand the logic of going for it.

And to be honest, with the way we had been run blocking to that point would give even greater confidence that it would have succeeded with no issues

DawgsFanatic said:

Well aware, everything I have seen since the game makes me agree with the call more. Just needed execution.

Let's say tempo is OK in that situation (which I don't like but whatever). Why run a 4th down play with 3rd down personnel? How many other 4th down plays have we run this year with CJ as the RB? I think I know the answer. Take it a step further: how many 1 yard to gain plays have we run on ANY down with CJ as the RB?

DawgsFanatic said:

Totally, I understand both sides. Was very frustrating not tying the game up. My thought process is you gain one yard and your odds of scoring and taking the lead skyrocket. Then you need to make a stop to win. If you kick the field goal, you need a stop and you need to drive the field and score again to take the lead.

I can definitely see both sides, but with 13:00 minutes left you kick it, keep the momentum and you put Alabama in a situation to make something happen which they haven't been in all game. Not to mention our defense was clicking in the 2nd half.

MayberryDawg said:

I can definitely see both sides, but with 13:00 minutes left you kick it, keep the momentum and you put Alabama in a situation to make something happen which they haven't been in all game. Not to mention our defense was clicking in the 2nd half.

Yes, but if you score a TD there, they can't simply just kick a field goal to win. They had lead the entire game. Simply tying the game really doesn't change their mindset because all they need is a FG. But if you score a TD and go up by 4, then you actually change their mindset

DawgsFanatic said:

Totally, I understand both sides. Was very frustrating not tying the game up. My thought process is you gain one yard and your odds of scoring and taking the lead skyrocket. Then you need to make a stop to win. If you kick the field goal, you need a stop and you need to drive the field and score again to take the lead.

When that all went down was early in the 4th qtr, even a TD there doesn't guarantee much. We had just dominated the 3rd qtr and had all the momentum, a FG might not have been the sexy analytics thing to do. But it keeps momentum on your side, instead of bringing them back to life with a stop. And you still had almost a full qtr left to find some more points. Or heck given how things had slowed down, maybe you end up in OT. And outside of a FG in that moment, we would have definitely had a special teams advantage the later the game went, given who our kicker is versus their guy had already missed on badly and would have had that in his head for any future attempts. The kicker having missed that FG badly is just one example of something analytics isn't looking at before a game kicks off. Get it tied, and then make Bama have to kick a FG to win if they do drive on us.

gdawg24 said:

And to be honest, with the way we had been run blocking to that point would give even greater confidence that it would have succeeded with no issues

Normally, I wouldn't go off on a tangent, but so much of what we perceive as fans has so much more to do with the result. To your point, how many times do we criticize play calling if we've run it successfully 3-4 times in a row and elect to pass (if it doesn't work out)? By the same token, we criticize if we've been running successfully and elect to keep running it, and it doesn't work out. "Too conservative!" we often say. DeBoer and Grubb are getting their flowers for the play to Proctor (behind LOS, obviously, so counts as a rush), who to my knowledge, never caught nor carried the ball in his college career. We're sitting here (not me, not all of us) bagging on our staff for having a true freshman targeted for a wide open TD. It wouldn't have been crazy to see Proctor juggle or drop that ball, and because it was thrown behind the LOS, it would have been fair game for us to scoop up. But, it worked like a charm in the end, and here we are. If I disagree with a play call or decision, I really do try to at least steel man the decision that was made.

Had no idea they could talk to the defensive guy No telling how bad Schu is confusing whoever he is talking to

Billy Zane said:

Normally, I wouldn't go off on a tangent, but so much of what we perceive as fans has so much more to do with the result. To your point, how many times do we criticize play calling if we've run it successfully 3-4 times in a row and elect to pass (if it doesn't work out)? By the same token, we criticize if we've been running successfully and elect to keep running it, and it doesn't work out. "Too conservative!" we often say. DeBoer and Grubb are getting their flowers for the play to Proctor (behind LOS, obviously, so counts as a rush), who to my knowledge, never caught nor carried the ball in his college career. We're sitting here (not me, not all of us) bagging on our staff for having a true freshman targeted for a wide open TD. It wouldn't have been crazy to see Proctor juggle or drop that ball, and because it was thrown behind the LOS, it would have been fair game for us to scoop up. But, it worked like a charm in the end, and here we are. If I disagree with a play call or decision, I really do try to at least steel man the decision that was made.

From my experience, most of it usually falls more on execution vs plays called. Are all plays designed to be homeruns every time? No, many are just ran to set something else up later on.

Age of two play sequencing gone to Lane. Yet we ran our 3rd down play specifically to set up 4th down play with tempo. Would have been a good call if it was the last play of game and we were down by four but with ten minutes left and the momentum it was just stupid.

gdawg24 said:

Yes, but if you score a TD there, they can't simply just kick a field goal to win. They had lead the entire game. Simply tying the game really doesn't change their mindset because all they need is a FG. But if you score a TD and go up by 4, then you actually change their mindset

You kick it keep the momentum, it changes their mindset because they don't have a 3 point cushion anymore in this tight game. Plus their kicker has already missed one.

Exactly. Lane gets it. Caught Bama with their pants down. Even a slight block by Gaston and Georgia has a first down and maybe a TD. You can't switch running backs there and catch Bama off guard because once you sub, Bama gets to sub and get lined up. So why was Cash in on third down? Because it puts the defense in conflict. He is a pass-catching running back. You have to account for that. Bama chooses a defense that is better against the pass and thus Gunner almost converts the third down. "But they were freshman on the right side!" - True. But Gaston is your best lineman, and Glover is going to be a star. It's not like Freeling and Morris haven't missed blocks with the game on the line. Ahem. Let's say Georgia kicks it and ties the game. Where is the winning score coming from? Alabama ran 34 plays to Georgia's 28 in the second half. The Bulldogs only got the ball once after that failed 4th down, and Georgia couldn't cross midfield. Bama, on the other hand, would have been driving for the game-winning field goal. And they were moving just fine as we saw. Had that happened, we'd all be yelling at Kirby for kicking the field goal instead of going for it on 4th and inches.

MayberryDawg said:

You kick it keep the momentum, it changes their mindset because they don't have a 3 point cushion anymore in this tight game. Plus their kicker has already missed one.

And with the way we were running it and our kicker I like our chances in overtime.

Too much football left to go for a td there. Kick the ball. Tie the game.