My thoughts on Smith's future

MattDorsey said:

Let me first say that I want CJS to be successful and I was excited about his hire. With that said, right now I feel a lot like I did when the previous Coach Smith was at MSU. I actually wanted John L replaced the year before because I knew he was not the guy and waiting another year was just wasting time. MSU stuck with Smith, it was a fiasco, he was fired and thankfully we got MD. So waiting actually benefitted MSU in that case. But those days are gone. In 2006 they did not have NIL and the transfer portal. To me it looks as if barring MSU winning 2 of the next 3 games, CJS should probably not be the HC of MSU moving forward. At this point I do not fire him for losing to Indiana, unless it is something like 51-3. I am for giving him through the Minny game as MSU has a bye week after that game. Firing him after the UM game just seems too reactionary to me and feeds into a Wolvie narrative. If Smith can beat UM and Minny and get the team to 5-4 with 3 games left, I think it will have shown that the players are still playing for him and you give him until end of the season. If he is able to salvage the season and go 6-6 or 7-5 he should stay. I know it is unlikely, but at this point last year Billy Napier and Shane Beamer were pretty much dead men walking so it is not impossible. I know the buyout amount is steep, but at some point you will be losing more money by NOT getting rid of him. Penn State made a bold move, as they have said that being a 10-2 program that can't beat the "big boys" is simply not good enough. I am sure they boosters who paid to keep Allar, Singleton and Allen (All 7 figure deals) had something to say as far as firing Franklin. I know people love to talk about the coaches who got things going in year 3 or more....Such as Frank Beamer or Kirk Ferentz, but those guys did not have to worry about kids transferring. So if you had a team that went 5-7 or 4-8, but had 90% of starters returning you could hold the line and see what happens. You just can't do that in today's era of NIL and instant portal eligibility. If MSU limps to 5-7 or 4-8, three things are definitely going to happen: 1) MSU will lose key current players to the portal 2) Recruiting of HS kids will take a hit 3) Landing kids in portal will be difficult unless you overpay. If MSU hires a proven HC who exhibits some fire/charisma (something I think Smith has not done to the level many would like to see) I think they.... 1) Can hopefully keep some of the players who may leave otherwise 2) Salvage the recruiting class. I think it could end up being better that what MSU will sign if they keep Smith and are not going bowling. 3) Will be able to get some portal players as the new HC will definitely have contacts etc... FWIW, I have a few ideas about who I want and believe would be a good choice. I think one thing people need to understand is that MSU is unique and you need to understand that "uniqueness". I will not throw names out until it is a situation where MSU is actually looking for a HC. With that said, I hope MSU is doing some due diligence right now behind the scene so that if it comes to the fact that MSU needs to replace Smith, it is a quick and smooth transition. I am still holding out hope that they team battles this weekend and maybe the loose 38-24 and that will give me some hope vs a UM team that is very average IMO. UM and MSU lost to USC. UM and MSU had different results vs Nebraska, but I think those games were coinflips that could have gone the other way if not for mistakes. With that said, I am a realist and the reality is that this team has not shown progress in year two and the malaise/fatigue that is settling into the fanbase is VERY concerning.

MattDorsey said:

Let me first say that I want CJS to be successful and I was excited about his hire. With that said, right now I feel a lot like I did when the previous Coach Smith was at MSU. I actually wanted John L replaced the year before because I knew he was not the guy and waiting another year was just wasting time. MSU stuck with Smith, it was a fiasco, he was fired and thankfully we got MD. So waiting actually benefitted MSU in that case. But those days are gone. In 2006 they did not have NIL and the transfer portal. To me it looks as if barring MSU winning 2 of the next 3 games, CJS should probably not be the HC of MSU moving forward. At this point I do not fire him for losing to Indiana, unless it is something like 51-3. I am for giving him through the Minny game as MSU has a bye week after that game. Firing him after the UM game just seems too reactionary to me and feeds into a Wolvie narrative. If Smith can beat UM and Minny and get the team to 5-4 with 3 games left, I think it will have shown that the players are still playing for him and you give him until end of the season. If he is able to salvage the season and go 6-6 or 7-5 he should stay. I know it is unlikely, but at this point last year Billy Napier and Shane Beamer were pretty much dead men walking so it is not impossible. I know the buyout amount is steep, but at some point you will be losing more money by NOT getting rid of him. Penn State made a bold move, as they have said that being a 10-2 program that can't beat the "big boys" is simply not good enough. I am sure they boosters who paid to keep Allar, Singleton and Allen (All 7 figure deals) had something to say as far as firing Franklin. I know people love to talk about the coaches who got things going in year 3 or more....Such as Frank Beamer or Kirk Ferentz, but those guys did not have to worry about kids transferring. So if you had a team that went 5-7 or 4-8, but had 90% of starters returning you could hold the line and see what happens. You just can't do that in today's era of NIL and instant portal eligibility. If MSU limps to 5-7 or 4-8, three things are definitely going to happen: 1) MSU will lose key current players to the portal 2) Recruiting of HS kids will take a hit 3) Landing kids in portal will be difficult unless you overpay. If MSU hires a proven HC who exhibits some fire/charisma (something I think Smith has not done to the level many would like to see) I think they.... 1) Can hopefully keep some of the players who may leave otherwise 2) Salvage the recruiting class. I think it could end up being better that what MSU will sign if they keep Smith and are not going bowling. 3) Will be able to get some portal players as the new HC will definitely have contacts etc... FWIW, I have a few ideas about who I want and believe would be a good choice. I think one thing people need to understand is that MSU is unique and you need to understand that "uniqueness". I will not throw names out until it is a situation where MSU is actually looking for a HC. With that said, I hope MSU is doing some due diligence right now behind the scene so that if it comes to the fact that MSU needs to replace Smith, it is a quick and smooth transition. I am still holding out hope that they team battles this weekend and maybe the loose 38-24 and that will give me some hope vs a UM team that is very average IMO. UM and MSU lost to USC. UM and MSU had different results vs Nebraska, but I think those games were coinflips that could have gone the other way if not for mistakes. With that said, I am a realist and the reality is that this team has not shown progress in year two and the malaise/fatigue that is settling into the fanbase is VERY concerning.

Ottenbad said:

Sorry Matt, but what proven head coach is going to sign up for this mess?

MSUStu said:

This is why you let the season continue to play out, but I'm not sure the Napier comparison is a good one. It also just seems like the writing is on the wall right now. When he started 1-2 last season and effectively got dominated by Miami and A&M - it did seem like the writing was on the wall, but he didn't have a bad loss after that. He beat the bad teams. MSU just got punked at home by UCLA. Napier didn't have a loss like that when it looked like things were going south in a hurry. He even took #8 Tennessee to OT on the road. They battled Georgia and held a 13-6 lead at halftime. So he still had a handle on the rivalry games. He also didn't lose back-to-back games until that Georgia/Texas stretch - which were two top 5 teams. He also beat ranked LSU & top 10 Ole Miss. Coach Smith doesn't have something like this to hang on the wall. And Napier is probably getting fired this year anyways.

Chipsmsu said:

More than u think

Ottenbad said:

Sorry Matt, but what proven head coach is going to sign up for this mess?

ABadMotherTucker said:

Says who? I wouldn’t say the candidate list was very strong when we hired Smith, would you?

ABadMotherTucker said:

Says who? I wouldn’t say the candidate list was very strong when we hired Smith, would you?

DanMan said:

I don’t know what the hell happened vs UCLA, can’t explain it, but am I crazy to think the the team that fought tough at USC and at Nebraska could win 3 more games this season if they button up a few costly mistakes?

ABadMotherTucker said:

Says who? I wouldn’t say the candidate list was very strong when we hired Smith, would you?

MattDorsey said:

Let me first say that I want CJS to be successful and I was excited about his hire. With that said, right now I feel a lot like I did when the previous Coach Smith was at MSU. I actually wanted John L replaced the year before because I knew he was not the guy and waiting another year was just wasting time. MSU stuck with Smith, it was a fiasco, he was fired and thankfully we got MD. So waiting actually benefitted MSU in that case. But those days are gone. In 2006 they did not have NIL and the transfer portal. To me it looks as if barring MSU winning 2 of the next 3 games, CJS should probably not be the HC of MSU moving forward. At this point I do not fire him for losing to Indiana, unless it is something like 51-3. I am for giving him through the Minny game as MSU has a bye week after that game. Firing him after the UM game just seems too reactionary to me and feeds into a Wolvie narrative. If Smith can beat UM and Minny and get the team to 5-4 with 3 games left, I think it will have shown that the players are still playing for him and you give him until end of the season. If he is able to salvage the season and go 6-6 or 7-5 he should stay. I know it is unlikely, but at this point last year Billy Napier and Shane Beamer were pretty much dead men walking so it is not impossible. I know the buyout amount is steep, but at some point you will be losing more money by NOT getting rid of him. Penn State made a bold move, as they have said that being a 10-2 program that can't beat the "big boys" is simply not good enough. I am sure they boosters who paid to keep Allar, Singleton and Allen (All 7 figure deals) had something to say as far as firing Franklin. I know people love to talk about the coaches who got things going in year 3 or more....Such as Frank Beamer or Kirk Ferentz, but those guys did not have to worry about kids transferring. So if you had a team that went 5-7 or 4-8, but had 90% of starters returning you could hold the line and see what happens. You just can't do that in today's era of NIL and instant portal eligibility. If MSU limps to 5-7 or 4-8, three things are definitely going to happen: 1) MSU will lose key current players to the portal 2) Recruiting of HS kids will take a hit 3) Landing kids in portal will be difficult unless you overpay. If MSU hires a proven HC who exhibits some fire/charisma (something I think Smith has not done to the level many would like to see) I think they.... 1) Can hopefully keep some of the players who may leave otherwise 2) Salvage the recruiting class. I think it could end up being better that what MSU will sign if they keep Smith and are not going bowling. 3) Will be able to get some portal players as the new HC will definitely have contacts etc... FWIW, I have a few ideas about who I want and believe would be a good choice. I think one thing people need to understand is that MSU is unique and you need to understand that "uniqueness". I will not throw names out until it is a situation where MSU is actually looking for a HC. With that said, I hope MSU is doing some due diligence right now behind the scene so that if it comes to the fact that MSU needs to replace Smith, it is a quick and smooth transition. I am still holding out hope that they team battles this weekend and maybe the loose 38-24 and that will give me some hope vs a UM team that is very average IMO. UM and MSU lost to USC. UM and MSU had different results vs Nebraska, but I think those games were coinflips that could have gone the other way if not for mistakes. With that said, I am a realist and the reality is that this team has not shown progress in year two and the malaise/fatigue that is settling into the fanbase is VERY concerning.

Nebulous said:

A head coach has won the lottery when getting a Big Ten gig. So yeah, the pile of resumes sent our AD will be very high, as it always is.

DanMan said:

I don’t know what the hell happened vs UCLA, can’t explain it, but am I crazy to think the the team that fought tough at USC and at Nebraska could win 3 more games this season if they button up a few costly mistakes?

Ottenbad said:

Sorry Matt, but what proven head coach is going to sign up for this mess?

Nebulous said:

Matt, what do you consider unique about MSU?

• Fanbase: very family oriented, way less bandwagon-ish / transactional like the bigger brand names. Don't know how else to put it other than it feels more intimate here.
• Rivalry with Michigan: Don't care what anyone says, this instate rivalry is not like the others. The HC needs to understand this rivalry to its core.
• Athletic scene: One of a handful of schools that has proven to compete at the highest level in Hockey, Football, and Basketball.
• Culture: Chip on the shoulder, blue collar. Always appears to be overlooked.

DrFrasierCrane said:

I just wonder if Smith was more fiery on the sidelines; ripping into officials getting on his players when they make mental mistakes etc if we would feel even the slightest difference. I know that's just cosmetic and wouldn't change the bottom line results but as Comp said, you got to be some politician when you're the HC and doing stuff like that shows you're in charge and/or won't stand for stupid errors.