17 this team..especially the upper classmen...

ScoobaDawg

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
3,060
10
38
seriously F-U--C--K you all
You are the poison to the team and your hate of him because he yells at you because you are all 17'n pussies that cant pitch or field worth a 17'n ****.
Have your little powwows and ***** and moan about John being the worst person you have ever meet.

I hope every last player with a connection to Polk is cut this offseason.

In closing, dear fans.... DO NOT come to Dudy Noble again this season unless you are interested in seeing us lose and not care...
until this **** gets cleared... things will continue to be bad..this season is already lost.
 

ScoobaDawg

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
3,060
10
38
seriously F-U--C--K you all
You are the poison to the team and your hate of him because he yells at you because you are all 17'n pussies that cant pitch or field worth a 17'n ****.
Have your little powwows and ***** and moan about John being the worst person you have ever meet.

I hope every last player with a connection to Polk is cut this offseason.

In closing, dear fans.... DO NOT come to Dudy Noble again this season unless you are interested in seeing us lose and not care...
until this **** gets cleared... things will continue to be bad..this season is already lost.
 

ScoobaDawg

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
3,060
10
38
seriously F-U--C--K you all
You are the poison to the team and your hate of him because he yells at you because you are all 17'n pussies that cant pitch or field worth a 17'n ****.
Have your little powwows and ***** and moan about John being the worst person you have ever meet.

I hope every last player with a connection to Polk is cut this offseason.

In closing, dear fans.... DO NOT come to Dudy Noble again this season unless you are interested in seeing us lose and not care...
until this **** gets cleared... things will continue to be bad..this season is already lost.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Scooba is correct.

It's not all of them, though.

The fact of the matter is this. We are not going to have a chance to move forward as a program until we totally get rid of Polk's players. I know some people will say that I'm making excuses here, but it's not just their lack of talent that's the problem. It's their attitude. You don't have to be a five tool player to have some fire in your belly and do what it takes to win. Ask Pete Rose.

People have to remember this when they are watching or talking about a lot of the players on this team:

1. Most of these players were recruited with the promise that they were not going to get yelled at no matter what. They were promised "a good baseball experience".

2. Many of them were promised that they would be starters without competition or having to earn it.

3. Many of them loved Polk, and Raffo was one of Polk's primary reruiters. Raffo actually recruited most of players.

Now, what we did is bring in John Cohen who:

1. Cusses and yells and wants to win.

2. Is all about competition every year and in the season. Which makes Sam Frost even more puzzling.

3. Probably would not have recruited 90% of Polk's boys in the first place.

The players wanted Raffo. Now, I think Raffo has done a great job at Arkansas State, but I seriously doubt that he would be doing as well as even Cohen is doing now. The reason I say that is because guess who would still be around if we had hired Raffo? Yep. Ron Polk. The guy was going to build a replica of his office in the Palmeiro Center next to Raffo's. Tommy would have been another "yes" man with a title, all the while MSU baseball continues to go down the toilet. I also believe that Russ McNickle would still be around if Raffo was the coach right now. Recruiting would be no better than what we were doing, and people would eventually lose interest all together. Except for the dumbasses who've "been going to the games for 40 years" that haven't seen a baseball game at any other place or level besides MSU and maybe, maybe their local high school. What the Polk croonies don't realize is that we did Raffo a huge favor by forcing him to get the hell away from Polk and McNickle. I wish Raffo well, and hope I get a chance to watch his team play sometime in the future.

That said, what we were trying to as little as two years ago would be like having a rec league all-star team and trying to play a bunch of select teams in a 12 team league. SEC baseball from top to bottom is about as good as SEC football. Even the worst programs are pretty good. IF we wanted to compete in the SEC and build on our tradition, we had to join the game. If we did not, and we were more concerned about pleasing certain people in the stands, we could go in that direction as well, which was the same one that we were on two years ago. LT made a decision nine years ago to please people. Byrne made a decision to compete.

And honestly, Cohen has had to put up with a LOT of **** for really no good reason. He has been accused of playing favorites by some of the Polk croonies, and yet, most of our lineup is Polk players. He gets bitched at for cussing IN THE DUGOUT where it is really no ones business what goes on in there. Cohen has done a LOT of stuff to accomodate Polk's boys- like allow Jet Butler to not play second base, and he yelled at them less this fall and spring. They need to remember that Cohen could have very easily cut all of their asses like Manieri did at LSU a few years back. I think the reason he didn't is out of respect for Polk.

Cohen is the type of coach that we need right now. He is a good recruiter- and the fruits of that will really show in a couple of years, he wants to win at MSU worse than anything, and wants to take the baseball program to that next level. We have not had that for years.

IF we fired Cohen or whatever, whoever the next coach is better send him a thank-you note for leaving him some darn good players.

Back to Raffo, I think most of the players feel like he "didn't get a fair shot" to be the coach at MSU. Ironically, they are to blame in part because a big reason why Raffo wasn't hired was BECAUSE of his recruiting- whether Polk was restricting him or not, and Polk was, and the fact that many of these players DIDN'T PERFORM when he was the coach. Polk, who threw a ***** fit about it, is also in part to blame for not letting Raffo do more things that he wanted to do and for not allowing him to go get some HC experience like Polk did with McMahon. On top of all this, you have Polk telling many of the players on our team to NOT PLAY for Cohen.

Anyone that watches our team, it is VERY apparent that the problem is the players.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
1. Cohen respects Polk A LOT. I don't know if people understand just how much. Polk is a BIG reason why Cohen wanted the MSU job because he admires him so much. If you ask Cohen who his mentor is, he will tell you Ron Polk. And as far as Polk's players, I really think he keeps them around out of respect for Polk.

And if you think about it, it's not their fault that they were given an opportunity that they didn't really deserve and took it. If MSU offers you a baseball scholarship and Samford and Delta State offer you a scholarship, where are you going to go?

2. You can't cut 34 people- I'm assuming Conner Powers stays- after the signing period is over and sign 34 quality players. It just isn't going to happen. At least Polk's players have SEC game experience, and I think you take the chance that maybe they'll come around. And if you did, you would be forced to have one huge class every four years, or have a team that barely has enough players to play- that would saddle us with HUGE depth problems for about four years.
 

bullysleftnut

Redshirt
May 23, 2006
493
0
0
Maybe not all of them, but the ones that are tanking on purpose you kick to the curb and don't look back. It would send a message to the rest that their **** won't be tolerated.
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
284
0
0
Which one of polk's players is to blame for the ****** base running that has been going on since Cohen took over?

Making unforced outs at 3rd base for the first or third out of an inning is a baseball sin. Most of Us learned that in little league. It is ******** andwould have been corrected by a good coaching staff before the halfway point of last year. Instead , It still goes on even today. We did both , made the 1st and 3rd out of an inning at third base......UNFORCED.

Sling all the **** You want to in Polk's direction. He deserves all He can eat and then some. But don't let that excuse the job that Cohen has done. His recruiting has been good , but his game management has been piss poor.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
AceLeroy said:
Which one of polk's players is to blame for the ****** base running that has been going on since Cohen took over?

Making unforced outs at 3rd base for the first or third out of an inning is a baseball sin. Most of Us learned that in little league. It is ******** andwould have been corrected by a good coaching staff before the halfway point of last year. Instead , It still goes on even today. We did both , made the 1st and 3rd out of an inning at third base......UNFORCED.

Sling all the **** You want to in Polk's direction. He deserves all He can eat and then some. But don't let that excuse the job that Cohen has done. His recruiting has been good , but his game management has been piss poor.


did taking an extra base become an in-game management decision? It's not like you say, OK, Billy, when the ball is hit to the outfield, go to third no matter what. Baserunning to me in that situation, it's going to be either the third base coaches fault, or the runner's fault. You don't blame the HC for that.

Also, as you've mentioned that's a baseball sin and a Little League skill, well then why isn't their Little League coaches fault? Why isn't it their high school coaches fault? If it's a Little League skill, why are we having to teach it at the college level in the SEC?

I highly suspect that they couldn't run the bases in Little League or high school and anywhere in between. And if you remember under Polk, it was pretty much station to station. Which means it takes about 3 or 4 hits to drive in a run.

And another pet peeve of mine is this- people only talk about the guys that get thrown out at third. But, you never hear about the guys that take the extra base successfully or execute the play like they're supposed to. The coach never gets credit for that either.
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
284
0
0
since you were the one who told Us that the base running has improved this year , even though in reality it has not.

IF a team continues to make such jackass base running mistakes , then Yes it falls on the HC. Now He might have a bad third base coach who waves them on no matter what , but if he keeps letting that happen then He is just as much at fault. If it is the players running through stop signs , then again the HC must find a way to put a stop to that.

These things are fixed in practice. Players have to be taught to think before the ball is hit.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
AceLeroy said:
since you were the one who told Us that the base running has improved this year , even though in reality it has not.

IF a team continues to make such jackass base running mistakes , then Yes it falls on the HC. Now He might have a bad third base coach who waves them on no matter what , but if he keeps letting that happen then He is just as much at fault. If it is the players running through stop signs , then again the HC must find a way to put a stop to that.

These things are fixed in practice. Players have to be taught to think before the ball is hit.


And I don't know what you're watching, but the baserunning is improved. I never said no one would be thrown out at a base, or that there would be no mistakes, nor would I ever make a claim like that. I've watched us play several times where we scored an extra run or two because we ran the bases aggressively. I've seen us force errors when we've run the bases aggressively. It doesn't get talked about when it works. Today was one of our worst days of base running this season. I haven't seen very many, if any threads until today about the base running. Last year, that was pretty much a weekly theme. I wonder why we haven't had those weekly threads if the base running hasn't improved.

Let me ask this- Do you think we DON'T work on baserunning in practice? It sounds to me like that's what you are pinning on Cohen- that he's not teaching baserunning. I highly doubt that's the case. Just because you teach something to someone doesn't mean that they will retain and execute it properly. My Dad taught me the exact same hitting philosophy that Albert Pujols has- I know because I saw him talking about it on ESPN- that doesn't mean that I can hit 40 home runs and hit .350 in the Big Leagues. If someone is a crappy baserunner, there's not a lot you can do about it except hope that they don't screw something up. Cohen can't run for these guys, and honestly, he was a hell of a lot better baserunner than any of these punks.

And again, you don't think that these players weren't taught to "think before the ball was hit" before they got to college? You yourself said it was a Little League skill. We shouldn't have to teach that at the college level, much less correct it. But I bet if you went back and asked Polk's players coaches through the years, I bet the "Yeah, he couldn't run the bases worth a ****" theme would keep coming back up again and again.


And if I was Cohen's wife, I'd nag his *** until he benched Sam Frost.
 

Paper Dog

Redshirt
Feb 20, 2008
715
0
0
The same people on tihs board and the other board keep making this is a Polk's players versus Cohen's players deal and that is not right

I do agree that Cohen should not be judged until he gets his people in here....however that being said, there are a lot of problems on this team and many of those problems are coming from Cohen's players as well as Polk's
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
and it is tough as hell to weather....

I have no idea if players are tanking on purpose, but it does happen. It can even happen subconsciously because they dont have their heart in it due to that fact they think Raffo should have gotten the job and they resent Cohen.

I went through a similar situation when I moved to Louisiana and took over a successful program with some talented players. I inherited:

a pitching coach that thought he should have gotten the job and tried his best to backstab me
a split division of parents between our 4 of our best players families and the rest of the team
players promised things by the previous coach I wasnt about to follow through on
pitchers that had allowed their fathers to call pitches instead of the coaches during games
10 talented players fighting for 8 starting positions
a 9th grader that was more talented than a Jr at the same position who's daddy gave over a grand to the program
spoiled *** players that didnt understand accountability


In the end, we started 6 Sophomore's in 3A baseball and went 31-7 losing in the semi's to the 4-time State Champion-
I had to pull my ace in the 3rd inning of the game because for the first time all season- he got the signal wrong from the catcher 6 times during the first 3 innings...I'm not saying he tanked, but it didnt happen all season till then (and yes, he ended up transferring)....
3 of our top 5 players transferred to a rival school because their parents no longer had a say in how the program was run
the 9th grader batted .520 platooning with the Jr and and while his Daddy called a meeting with me and the Super- it was not much he could say
and every one of them learned what a bear crawl was and also how embarrassing it was to be pulled from a game in the middle of an inning for not hustling

The next year, while less talented, we went 28-6 and returned to the quarterfinals, losing to the runner-up...it was much more enjoyable and many more people were happy

Point being- Cohen has to rid the program of the **** that is dragging it down before he can move forward...we had three D-1 baseball players transfer and still went 28-6...why? Everybody was finally working in the same direction. When he gets that- our program will start moving forward and winning no matter what the talent level
 

AceLeroy

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
284
0
0
You say Cohen can't run the bases for them. I ask You , Who made the call to try and steal third base withnobody out? You don't think that is on Cohen?

Later We got shot down at third for the last out of the inning. Now the player COULD have done that own his own or the third base coach could have made a dumbass move and waved him to third. The thing is this has been going on since day 1 and it continues to happen. I haven't heard Cohen say one time after ANY of these games that We ran through a stop sign or the third base coach should have held a runner. I believe He supports it or He would have done something by now to make it stop happening.</p>

Your point about the aggresive baserunning not getting talked about when it works does not concern what I am talking about. I am all for aggressive baserunning , but there is a difference in that and just stupid baserunning.</p>

It is situational. If a guy gets shot trying to go fromfirst to third with 1 out , I got no problem with that. The reward is worth the risk. Now if You get your *** gunned doing the same thing with 0 outs , that is a jackass baserunning play. Whose fault is it? Once could be on the player , 3 or 4 times could be on a third base coach, a full season and half and it is still happening, nowhere else left to point than at the Head Coach.
</p>
 

Shmuley

Heisman
Mar 6, 2008
23,677
10,192
113
you heard all you needed to hear as to what's wrong.

Paraphrasing what Cohen said: Success at this level comes down to reducing to as minimal as possible the things that other teams can do to you that you can't overcome. Last year, because of the talent inherited, there were '... about 60 things our opponents could to us in a game that we could not overcome. This year, there are about 10 things our opponents can do to us that are extremely difficult to overcome. It's about the talent. We do not have all the pieces in place yet. We're getting there but it is taking a little time. WE ARE GOING TO GET THERE.'

Please forgive the mind-numbing simplicity.
 

AROB44

Junior
Mar 20, 2008
1,381
226
63
On top of all this, you have Polk telling many of the players on our team to NOT PLAY for Cohen.

Are you kidding? This is STILL going on?
 

dawgstudent

Heisman
Apr 15, 2003
39,210
18,299
113
and it is tough as hell to weather. In 2007, I inherited a 5 year old t-ball team.

I have no idea if players are tanking on purpose, but it does happen. It
can even happen subconsciously because they dont have their heart in it
due to that fact they think Barney is their favorite daytime TV character over others thinking it's Elmo. It was rough to deal with.

I went through a similar situation when I switched leagues from Upward T-Ball and took
over a successful rec-league t-ball program with some talented players. I inherited:

Little Johnny would **** his pants when playing SS but he was our best talent
a split division of parents between our 4 of our best players families
and the rest of the team
players promised things by the previous coach I wasnt about to follow
through on like free Chex Mix at the Pub
pitchers that had allowed their fathers to call pitches instead of the
coaches during games
10 talented players fighting for 8 starting positions
a 2 year old that was more talented than a 5 year old at the same position who's
daddy hosted over 3 after game parties
spoiled *** players that didnt understand when I say your parents are responsible for the orange slices - THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ORANGE SLICES


In the end, we started 6 4 year olds in a 5 year old league and went 31-7 losing
in the semi's to the 4-time State Champion-
I had to pull my ace in the 3rd inning of the game because for the first
time all season- he said he wanted pepperoni instead of extra cheese for the post game party during one of our most important games of the season ...I'm not saying he tanked, but it didnt
happen all season till then (and yes, he ended up transferring)....
3 of our top 5 players transferred to a rival t-ball team because their
parents no longer had a say in how the program was run
the 2 year old batted .520 platooning with the 5 year old and and while his
Daddy called a meeting with me and the Super- it was not much he could
say
and every one of them learned what a bear crawl was and also how
embarrassing it was to be pulled from a game in the middle of an inning
for not hustling THOSE MOTHER 17ING 5 YEAR OLDS

The next year, while less talented, we went 28-6 and returned to the
quarterfinals, losing to the runner-up...it was much more enjoyable and
many more people were happy
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
those players could have taken off on their own because they're pissed off at Cohen for yelling at them.
 

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
63
whenever I start a Madden franchise, I like to do a fantasy draft and reorder the whole league. For Madden 06, I ended up with Marc Bulger as my quarterback. Well, by the start of the second half of game 1, he had already thrown 2 interceptions, so I benched him for Charlie Frye, who ended up winning the game, so I stuck with him. For the rest of the season, my Madden email inbox was filled with notes from Bulger demanding I trade him or start him. It really affected team morale, as noted by the fact the bar was yellow and not green under my coach's profile. We gutted it out though, and ended up going undefeated and winning the Super Bowl. I let Bulger go at the end of the season, and he never really caught on anywhere else. Frye, on the other hand, ended up winning 12 more Super Bowls and retiring the record holder of every major statistical passing catergory. So I ask you, coach to coach, who made the right decision?
 

OMlawdog

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,686
0
0
So basically if a player steals a base at a bad time, and gets thrown out, it could be they did it because they are pissed at Cohen?<div>
</div><div>Really? That is black helicopter type stuff there. </div><div>
</div><div>Isn't it just possible that Cohen made a bad decision? Isn't that a ton more likely than a player trying to steal a base to get back at Cohen?</div><div>
</div><div>At this point, the MSU baseball situation is as follows: If MSU wins a game it is solely because John Cohen's strategies and decisions put these terrible players in the position to win the game, and Cohen's simply willed MSU to a win. If MSU loses a game, Cohen did all he could to win the game, but unfortunately the team is full of T-Ball level players that either threw the game, or just failed to pay attention to the brilliant decisions that Cohen made during the game.</div><div>
</div><div>Can't Cohen be held responsible for decisions that aren't based on talent, like stealing bases, hit and run, bunting situations, where players are playing, when pitchers are taken out and where the outfield is positioned?Can'tCohenbeatfaultforthosetypeofdecisions?</div><div>
</div><div>PersonallyIthoughtCohenwasagoodhire,butIalsodon'tthinkthesituationwas/isasdireassomeonherethink.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
I feel for ya...and see, what Cohen is going thru is fairly common and he will weather the storm

Hopefully a couple of those wont go on to beat Polk's *** like mine did
 

RonnyAtmosphere

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
2,883
0
0
..WTF has Cohen's little diaper dandies done, except make fools of themselves in critical situations?


What has Cohen's juco recruits done, except act like 2003 versions of a Jackie Sherrill football player?


Granted, the Polk recruits have been equally vile.


But Cohen is the guy drawing the paycheck, so the buck stops with Cohen.


I realize sports messageboards are where comprehensive blame games are played, but Cohen is the one on the job. Cohen is the one officially holding the job of "head baseball coach."


The players are acting & appearing like a typical Chicago Cubs outfit, & that's all on John Cohen. Whether you like it or not.
 

MSUCostanza

Redshirt
Jan 10, 2007
5,706
0
0
but that's stupid. If you have players that aren't playing for you just because they preferred Polk, then you cut them loose. And I imagine Cohen's respect for Polk took quite a hit when Polk threw his temper tantrum after we passed on Raffo. What it boils down to is that we have a lot of babies/****** players that Polk recruited, and we apparently have some ****** players that Cohen recruited.

I give Cohen a pass for this year, but he better start turning things around next year.
 

o_Hot Rock

Senior
Jan 2, 2010
1,742
685
113
AceLeroy wrote:I am all for aggressive baserunning , but there is a difference in that and just stupid baserunning.

</p>
Here's my opinion, for what it's worth.

These players are learning a new philosophy of base running. In years past they were more cautious runners and were taught to err on the side of caution and not take the extra base. Now, they are being instructed to be more aggressive. There will be mistakes made in this learning process. It will be bad if the players don't accept the responsibility of it being their fault when they are thrown out and just blame the coach for making them run. If they think, "See this coach is stupid!" rather than, "Dam, I should have known that I wouldn't make it because...." Then things will be bad and won't get better until a corner is turned either by these players or the new ones.

You say that a base coach had them run? Worse! If the player isn't buying into it, then it could get ugly before it gets better.

In the end, Cohen is in charge and it will be up to him to turn it around.
 

RonnyAtmosphere

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
2,883
0
0
..has to go to some geeked out idiot who actually stores access to past board links, so he can play "gotcha" with his posters.

At least my archives thing is a joke.


You actually take this archives **** seriously.


Get a life.