20% slash to federal workers. Great start.
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You know I grew up in Western New York and was a cub reporter during those days (Hooker Chemicals and Love Canal) ironically it was an environmental regulation that created the whole problem!
I stated in another post that as an advanced industrialized society we clean up our messes more effectively and better than any other in world history. There is a trade off in my opinion between being environmentally responsible and economically destructive through our clean air and clean water regulations.
I don't pretend to know exactly where that line should be drawn, but I also know right now in many cases it is drawn too broadly and in many cases may not even be needed.
I remember after the Exxon Valdez oil spill, all of the dire alarms that the coastline off the Northwest U.S. would be permanently damaged if not lost for decades. I remember they were washing off Gulls with grease cutting dish washing liquid...etc. What a joke.
A year later the strong Ocean currents, rip tides, and just general flow of that massive Pacific Ocean washed all of the oil away and you couldn't even tell anything had happened there a year earlier. My point is not only do we clean up our own messes, but Nature does it even better.
So much of the alarmist environmental hysteria on the Left is just all politically motivated to control our economy and how we operate it.
Follow the money.
I went to a grade school where the water smelled like rotten eggs because of the sulphur in the water - probably explains a few things. I remember an old sulphur pond down in the holler near where I grew up. I agree that the EPA is necessary. I agree that they should probably be more focused on the basics too. I can understand the frustration with some of the more recent regs, especially with regard to coal. I think the danger of cutting them entirely is that some companies won't self police. Some companies skirt the rules as it is.
This is always a possibility, and in those cases we will need environmental enforcement and Laws to make them pay for any damage they cause. I don't have a problem with that. I do quarrel with needless rules and restrictions on what they produce, or how they operate. Too much of it is overkill...like in the case of Coal mining.
Anytime someone mentions the Exxon Valdez, I'm reminded of this little ditty.
What do you do with a drunken sailor
Put him in charge of an Exxon tanker
Hurry up boys we'll make the coast oily in the morning
And common problem is that the people who caused the issues are gone by the time they're discovered or investigated. The tax payers end up eating the cost of clean up in those cases.
I got a kick out of them "washing off" those Birds with dish detergent! What a bunch of morons. It was all pimping for the cameras, trying to scare the Hell out of everyone and get Lawmakers to ban all overseas tankers shipping oil back and fourth. That's all it was...drama for the cameras.
Everything was fine a year later, including the Birds. There is nothing we did to "fix" it.
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True. However in many cases they still know who the principles were...and they could go after their assets, holdings, future earnings (if they're still in business) or just fine them in the form of excise taxes or operating penalties that can be tacked onto whatever their corporate tax liabilities are. Stocks or dividends could be frozen from future trading if they refuse to pay up, or their ability to sell can be subject to garnishments per transactions until the costs or fines were repaid. There are ways to recover those damages if they were found liable.
The washing of the birds does save their lives. They can't fly when covered in oil. I think that was a volunteer effort, not your tax dollars at work though.
If you aren't familiar with it, read about the Buffalo Creek Disaster. The company was a several times removed sub of Consol. Proving that was less than easy though. And that proof was dug up by lawyers for the victims, not the government.
Where do you get your info? Surely there are other topics that you're more well versed in.
On 25th Exxon Valdez Anniversary, Oil Still Clings to Beaches
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-spill-25th-anniversary-alaska-ocean-science/
You "encounter" people countrtyroads89? I thought you were just an exhibit on display in a zoological museum that folks walk by to gaze at and wonder how such a species as yours ever came into existence?
It's a major attraction I hear, so I guess you do get to at least "see" different types of folks?
When's feeding time for all of the hateful garbage you consume and regurgitate in your daily posts at attempts to be human?
A NOAA study in spring 2012, along with two other studies reported at the same time, suggest that the long-term environmental effects of the spill may have been "far more profound than previously thought". The joint study by NOAA and BP found "many of the 32 dolphins studied were underweight, anemic and suffering from lung and liver disease, while nearly half had low levels of a hormone that helps the mammals deal with stress as well as regulating their metabolism and immune systems". Researchers found that some types of spiders and other insects were far less numerous than before the spill.[20]
During a January 2013 flyover, former NASA physicist, Bonny Schumaker noted a "dearth of marine life" in a radius 30 to 50 miles (50 to 80 km) around the Macondo well. "Since the fall of 2011, now about 14 months, I see no turtles, few if any dolphins, few if any rays ... few sharks, few bait balls, all of the things we used to see," she commented. This may mean that the wildlife left the area in search of food. "I guess the Gulf of Mexico in these parts is a stinky, dead desert for its previous visitors," Schumaker told NBC news.[21]
Three years after the oil spill, the residual effects were still apparent, with tar balls still found on the Mississippi coast, as well as an oil sheen along a coastal marsh, and erosion on an island in Barataria Bay sped up by the death of mangrove trees and marsh grass.[22]
Environmental impact of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_the_Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill
I visited Corpus Christie once. Went out on the beach and into the water. There were tar balls everywhere and those were just from the leaking oil rigs from about 30 miles off shore. The hotel had wet wipe dispensers everywhere to wipe the oil and tar from your body. Ruined a pair of swimming trunks. It was pretty sad and disgusting.
Where on earth do you get your information?
I've never seen anybody on this board so sure of their positions and yet so wrong in every instance (next to PATX that is). I clicked "show ignored content" just to see what somebody else was responding to and saw your lunacy. Gracious you're an idiot.
"The response effort involved lightering of unspilled cargo, vessel salvage, booming of sensitive areas, beach surveys and assessments, over flights to track the floating oil, skimming of floating oil, cleanup of oiled beaches, wildlife rescue, waste management, logistics support and public relations. Major cleanup operations were conducted during the spring and summer of 1989-1992. Thousands of workers were involved in cleanup and logistics support operations that included hundreds of vessels, aircraft and a substantial land-based infrastructure. In 1989, cleanup efforts involved more than I 1,000 people and 1,400 marine vessels. This multi-year cleanup cost more than two billion dollars. Techniques used to remove or clean oil included: burning, chemical dispersants, high pressure/hot water washing, cold water washing, fertilizer enhanced bioremediation, manual and mechanical removal of oil and oil laden sediments."
But please, continue on with your idiotic assertion that we did nothing to "fix" it.
$2B+
11,000 people
1400 Marine vessels
burning
chemical dispersants
high pressure/hot water washing
cold water washing
fertilizer enhanced bioremediation
manual and mechanical removal of oil
Perhaps I'm unclear on what your definition of "nothing" is, because that sure seems like a lot of somethings.
Don't bother responding because I won't see it. F'n idiot.
I'm sorry that this is all so confounding for you. You showed earlier and continue to show that you have negligible knowledge regarding environmental matters, maybe you could read up on all of the topics that you keep asking questions about and try to fill that vacuum.
When I saw Mule_eer respond about birds not being able to fly, that caught me eye. I had him on ignore too and had to turn it off just to see what he was saying.
Astonishing.
How do they know were those the exact same Dolphins around when Valdez ran aground? How do they know those Dolphins were underweight because of Valdez or its after effects?
Exxon Valdez ran aground in 1989. Looking at estuaries some 20 years later, and attributing all variances to that one incident and ruling out all other causes for those migrations to have simply "moved on" is total BS...they simply do not know and cannot make that correlation to Valdez. What did they do check with the migration monitors to do follow up surveys on the habitats to ask them when and why they decided to take up new digs? Please.
Yeah, you don't say? Imagine that?
The things quoted as after effects are a relatively small amount of damage considering how dire the predicted warnings of "total devastation" and "inhabitability" were after Valdez ran aground. 10 years after 13-9 the WVU fan base still suffers from Pittsasnapaf*ckaphobia---a sudden mental condition of anger, frustration, hostility, and even uncontrolled sobbing over the mere thought of losing especially to a lousy *** team like that!
It comes and goes, but it eventually goes way. It didn't permanently damage the WVU fan base, just made them a little less "predictable".
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Do you honestly believe this?
Oil doesn't naturally occur in all coastal locations.
Your stupidity is sad but entertaining. You just keep posting with no shame or embarrassment.
Just stop, please educate yourself. No one was looking to "ban all overseas tankers shipping oil back and forth". The Exxon Valdez oil spill lead to the passing of the Oil Pollution Act of 1990. For example, now tug boats escort oil tankers in and out of Prince William Sound instead of letting some drunken captain crash on the rocks. Above a certain threshold, if you have above ground storage tanks containing petroleum products you must complete a contingency plan so that in the event of a spill you either have on hand or make arrangements for their deployment by contractors, adequate length of containment boom, vacuum trucks and oil absorbent pads, etc. to contain the spill and protect downstream drinking water intakes and sensitive environmental areas. When you have an environmental disaster like Valdez or the gulf spill doesn't it make sense to learn the lessons and develop plans that can help to prevent a reoccurrence or if it happens again, be better able to contain and remediate the spill?
The Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (OPA) (101 H.R.1465, P.L. 101-380)[1] was passed by the 101st United States Congress and signed by President George H. W. Bush.[2] The Oil Pollution Act works to avoid oil spills from vessels and facilities by enforcing removal of spilled oil and assigning liability for the cost of cleanup and damages. The act requires specific operating procedures; defines responsible parties and financial liability; implements processes for measuring damages; specifies damages for which violators are liable; and establishes a fund for damages, cleanup, and removal costs. This statute has resulted in instrumental changes in the oil production, transportation, and distribution industries.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Pollution_Act_of_1990
You "clicked on" my ignored content to discover I was an idiot WhiteTailEER? That is amazing how you went through so much trouble and were so considerate to allow me the privilege of discovering what you've obviously so painstakingly investigated and felt compelled to inform me of myself.
How did I ever make it this far without your penetrating insight, obvious prescience, and unmatched analytical exegesis to be so profoundly reticent of my obvious deficient mental condition without your timely, and constructive information about my decrepit mental faculty?
I can't thank you enough for being so gracious, complementary and such a fine considerate compassionate poster to go through all that just for me.
I'm impressed.
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Is oil in the North pole? On the floor of the Ocean? When there's an Earthquake on the Ocean floor, is there any chance any of it makes it out and flows ashore somewhere thousands of miles away? When Glaciers in the Polar regions "split" or shift, do you think there's any chance some of the oil trapped in the rocks or underground seeps out?
Since we live on a water planet, do you think there is a very good chance you will find oil anywhere there is shoreline or underground reserves?
I notice you also really like to use the word "stupid" or you like to call other people "stupid" a lot.
Is your fondness for that nomenclature any indication of it's appropriateness for your self effacing?
To make matters worse, you linked to an environmental accident that didn't even have anything to do with Valdez. It was my mistake for not reading your link all the way through, but I'm amazed you're advising me to "read up" on things, and you can't even link to the correct story to back up your claims!
So...considering I'm reading something totally unrelated to what I posted I'm truly at a loss to explain what you were trying to prove by posting it?
Oh well....nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
So how do you explain that oil spill you linked to trying to prove Valdez lasting damage, when after this "law" you quote was passed and we had the largest oil spill disaster in history? I thought that "fixed" it?
As bad as that spill as well as the Valdez were, the water's still there in both places. The environment wasn't "destroyed", several miles down under all that water fish survive, sea Life thrives, everything is OK and we didn't go all the way down there with our "fixes" to make sure all the fish and everything else was honky dory. Nature took care of most of what we could never do anyway.
If it was left up to the Left, we'd dismantle that oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico, and all overseas oil tankers would be dry docked. Thankfully saner heads have prevailed since either of those unfortunate accidents.
But you folks act as if it weren't for our human "resuscitation" efforts, all the Oceans would have vanished or turned into Oceans of oil.
Give me a break.
You're quoting things from the Deepwater Horizon spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Natural bioremediation and volatilization are key mechanisms in the cleanup of these large oil spills. Natural attenuation is the term used for unaided bioremediation in the subsurface on land and possible other scenarios.
I posted findings on two large oil spills and both illustrate that these major oil spills stick around for years. I know it's tough to keep up, maybe you need some fresh air.
You linked to the article moe. I quoted from your article trying to refute your unsubstantiated claims of permanent environmental damage caused by Valdez. You linked to the wrong article trying to prove your point, and unfortunately I swallowed your click bait.
So I do need to read more carefully whatever you send along since you don't read very well ...or at least you don't know how to properly link whatever it is you think you're reading to prove whatever misguided point you are trying to make.
Just like you linked me to how water is formed when I asked you to show me how we (humans) make it?
But I guess illiteracy is something you majored in and apparently got excellent grades practicing?
You rock Dude!
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Moe if you weren't a fellow Mountaineer, I'd probably be kickin' your ***!
But because you are a Mountaineer (I hope) and at the end of the day we still Love each other for being part of the "Family." I guess I'll have to live with the fact you'll just remain an annoying itch on my *** that I have to scratch occasionally OK Bro?
It's all good.
I've tried being nice to you and shine some light into your darkness but it's obviously been a total waste of time. Welcome to ignore.
Yet after all of this you posted WhiteTailEER (admittedly impressive remedial efforts no doubt) there are many here on this board still claiming that area "suffers" from lasting environmental damage.
My only assertion (when I suggested we did nothing to "fix" it) is that despite the alarmist's predictions of dire permanent damage from that spill, & those efforts you pointed out that were undertaken to limit it's potential for lasting disaster, neither is a fact today.
There is no permanent lasting damage, and there is nothing we have done to fundamentally alter what nature has done on its own to clean it up over time. I also mentioned that we clean up our messes better than almost any other industrialized nation, but the fact that oil spills, and that we do make occasional messes, is no reason to shut down all of our oil and gas production, stop burning fossil fuels, shut down our manufacturing base, or reorient our economy away from heavy manufacturing and industrial production in favor of making clothing out of fig leaves, or living in thatched huts lined with bamboo and cocoa leaves with no hot and cold running water or electricity as many on the Left would love to see us living.
In fact I'd be willing to argue that NONE of the environmental alarmist's predictions or warnings of our imminent demise from "climate change" or the equally phony "global warming" scares, or just our living in a modern industrialized society have ever come true, are not true, and are in the vast majority of cases nothing but hoaxes designed politically to disrupt our way of life and substitute their version of how we should live while giving them control over all the money earned to redirect our activity.
No thank you... I like driving my SUV, and without hot or cold running water heated by electricity or gas, and our comfortable air conditioned homes, we'd all stink as bad as many Leftists do when they ride their bicycles around, sweat, and then don't bathe regularly.