I've seen a lot of hype about the 2014 team. Anyone care to explain to me why some think that 2014 will be a great season for MSU football?
2014 Football Team Hype
- Thread starter GOOD_DAWG2.0
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Not sure where you're seeing the hype, as most of the talk I've seen is pretty tempered towards the Maroon & White.
Our tougher schedule (Okie State and tossups on the road), last year's slide and the losses at WR and the secondary don't have me as excited as I have been in the past few years.
Our tougher schedule (Okie State and tossups on the road), last year's slide and the losses at WR and the secondary don't have me as excited as I have been in the past few years.
We've only got about 9 seniors total -- 4 offensive starters and 3 defensive starters this year.
Russell to Dak - likely upgrade in Mullen system
Perk to Robinson - likely upgrade in Mullen system
Siddoway to Juco/Robinson - wash at worse
Jackson to ?? - downgrade
Autry to Jones - wash
Skinner to Richie/Beniquez - wash at worse
Whitley to Arrington - who knows? Arrington has great potential
We bring back everyone else in what has been a pretty good development program. The 2012 class will be rs Soph or jrs.
We will then be chock full of 5th yr seniors for the first time under Mullen -- whereas this and last yr, we basically graduate 2 half classes since basically half the 09 class had to play immediately and Croom did a crappy job of redshirting in the 08 class.
We will be under a true dual threat for the first time under Mullen finally.
Our Auburn and Arky toss ups shift to home.
I will...
First of all, we will be getting back to the style of offense that we have been best at since Mullen's arrival. We will have a 3rd year QB that has the running ability of Relf with probably ten times the arm. We also will have a very experienced O-Line, and a stable of backs with JRob, Milton, Griffin, Shumpert. We will have a very seasoned group of WR's since they will all be breaking in this season. We will have a stud at TE, possibly 2 or 3 even.
Secondly, we will have that extremely talented recruiting class from two years ago on defense as RS Sophs, as well as Chris Jones with a year under his belt. We will have McKinney and Wells returning at LB, as well as the Browns and more. Our secondary is going to be stout next year with a Senior in Cox, and experience with Jiles, Redmond, and others, and they will have been under DeShea for more than a year. we will have another year of coaching for Collins and Turner on that defense as well.
I think it's important that we will have a very experienced kicker in Bell, since hopefully we will be in a lot more tight games against the best teams...so kicking game could be crucial next year.
Not only that, but we will have our toss up games back at home for the most part, and no Okla State probably. I could see us easily winning 8 or 9 next year with an outside shot at 10....but a lot of that will depend on whether we can bowl and keep momentum this season. It's a fairly wooly outlook, but on paper it's a legit reason to be a little wooly in my opinion.
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I agree with that for the most part except Robinson. Going to have to have a good quality JUCO because he's not the answer at tackle.
I agree. He could make strides between now and then, but I doubt it. He seems soft.
You pretty much summed it up.
Sad to think a guy with less talent than Russell can be more successful, but it's reality. The team is built around the run game but we can't fully utilize it with Russell's legs. Even our receivers block like mofo's. I'm excited to get back to that, but I'm not going to think about it again from this point on until next January.
I disagree. Robinson is an every down back...Perkins is a 3rd down back that we play every down for some reason. It's not Perkins' fault, he is great at what he does...but when it comes to tough yards between the tackles, we need Robinson, Griffin, Milton. I just wish Mullen would see that this season...it would help Tyler if we had a true power back getting carries up the middle that required two guys to take down.
Perkins
is an awesome back. I disagree with the thought that he's just a "3rd down back" completely. The guy has a TON of talent. Just because he isn't 6' and 230lbs doesn't mean he isn't an every down back. Everyone I talk to that sees him in practice says he's by far our best back. If he wasn't our best back, he wouldn't be starting. He's our first back to EVER be picked for the Maxewell Award watch list, while also being on the Hornung Award watch list. He rushed for over 1000 yards last year.
is an awesome back. I disagree with the thought that he's just a "3rd down back" completely. The guy has a TON of talent. Just because he isn't 6' and 230lbs doesn't mean he isn't an every down back. Everyone I talk to that sees him in practice says he's by far our best back. If he wasn't our best back, he wouldn't be starting. He's our first back to EVER be picked for the Maxewell Award watch list, while also being on the Hornung Award watch list. He rushed for over 1000 yards last year.
Again, nowhere did I say he wasn't a good back. He is very good. And I take that back about the 3rd down back....he is a 3rd down back AND an every down back if you have a dual threat QB...but we don't. He is NOT an every down back in an offense that features a non run threat at QB in my opinion. So I guess I feel like he is a 3rd down type back in our offense with Tyler.
It's cool if you disagree, I just don't think we pose any threat of a run game up the middle when he is in the game, and no SEC team is going to feel the need to put extra guys in the box with Perkins back there. He just isn't a big tackle breaker and doesn't run over people like you like an SEC back to do.
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I'm not too high on Siddoway either. His play last year left a lot to be desired.
I don't
think I said you said he wasn't a good back, but his production goes against thinking he is just a third down back (in any system). Perk has the ability, and has shown, that he can move the pile &/or hit people hard. His strength is vastly underrated.
think I said you said he wasn't a good back, but his production goes against thinking he is just a third down back (in any system). Perk has the ability, and has shown, that he can move the pile &/or hit people hard. His strength is vastly underrated.
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I tend to agree with Cadaver here. Go back and look at Perkins stats verse SEC teams. He put up huge numbers in non-con, but was underwhelming in SEC play. You can't send him up the middle against the Bama's and Lsu's of the world. Gotta have a bigger back than that.
I don't
think saying that he can't be successful vs Alabama or LSU exactly proves he isn't an every down back. I mean for one, how many nfl caliber players are on their lines? I'm willing to be most RBs that y'all consider every down backs met a similar fate.
ETA: his worst games (SEC) were UA and UM, may can put A&M in there but he still had a respectable 3.2 ypc. So essentially he had one bad game vs a team you wouldn't expect (UM)
think saying that he can't be successful vs Alabama or LSU exactly proves he isn't an every down back. I mean for one, how many nfl caliber players are on their lines? I'm willing to be most RBs that y'all consider every down backs met a similar fate.
ETA: his worst games (SEC) were UA and UM, may can put A&M in there but he still had a respectable 3.2 ypc. So essentially he had one bad game vs a team you wouldn't expect (UM)
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What about against Ole Miss? A solid 2.9 yards per carry. A&M? 3.2 ypc. The fact isn't that he's not producing against LSU and Alabama. The fact is he is not big enough to shoulder the load between the tackles against SEC defenses. We should use him more as in a Harvin role really.
Exactly. Sure he can be given the ball every down against UT Martin and Alcorn, but he is not moving any piles in the SEC against anybody. He's a good back, but he is not an every down back in big time college football. Mullen is doing him a disservice by not allowing him to get as many screens and catch as many passes as he should. Perkins is incredible out of the backfield in the passing game.
Exactly.
What good defense did we have the most success against? LSU in DV at night. What back shouldered the load in that game? Griffin. Russell had success throwing in part because griffin was enough of a load to keep them honest on the ground.
Perkins is too easy to tackle for loss. He rarely falls forward or gets many yards after contact. He's not a between the tackles runner. Everyone can tell me how good he was last year all they want to -- but they can't explain why our overall rush totals was ranked in the 80s last yr for the worst in recent memory -- after being top 10 with Dixon and Lee...
The reason he's been our #1 has very little to do with his ground and pound running ability. He's been by far our best in pass blocking and at not missing assignments or making mistakes...
What good defense did we have the most success against? LSU in DV at night. What back shouldered the load in that game? Griffin. Russell had success throwing in part because griffin was enough of a load to keep them honest on the ground.
Perkins is too easy to tackle for loss. He rarely falls forward or gets many yards after contact. He's not a between the tackles runner. Everyone can tell me how good he was last year all they want to -- but they can't explain why our overall rush totals was ranked in the 80s last yr for the worst in recent memory -- after being top 10 with Dixon and Lee...
The reason he's been our #1 has very little to do with his ground and pound running ability. He's been by far our best in pass blocking and at not missing assignments or making mistakes...
I think
you missed my last post addressing this, apparently. He didn't play vs LSU last year, for one. Secondly, 3.2 ypc isn't horrible (A&M). Really, the only bad games were UA & UM. You can't fault him for UA. Not many RBs were successful vs them. Thus, UM was truly the only bad performance where he had no excuse. Just a reminder, our entire team **** the bed vs UM.
However, if I concede the to you, you've got three games where he didn't perform good; the best team in the nation, the only team that beat Alabama, and UM. Again, that doesn't really tell me he isn't an every down back in college football. Hell, he was one of the top players in the nation in all purpose yards last year.
I just don't see the argument that he isn't an every down back in college football based upon his performances against three teams, two of which were UA & A&M.
you missed my last post addressing this, apparently. He didn't play vs LSU last year, for one. Secondly, 3.2 ypc isn't horrible (A&M). Really, the only bad games were UA & UM. You can't fault him for UA. Not many RBs were successful vs them. Thus, UM was truly the only bad performance where he had no excuse. Just a reminder, our entire team **** the bed vs UM.
However, if I concede the to you, you've got three games where he didn't perform good; the best team in the nation, the only team that beat Alabama, and UM. Again, that doesn't really tell me he isn't an every down back in college football. Hell, he was one of the top players in the nation in all purpose yards last year.
I just don't see the argument that he isn't an every down back in college football based upon his performances against three teams, two of which were UA & A&M.
Perkins averaged 4.1 ypc in conference games only last year. Every team except for UK and Auburn had a runner with a higher ypc than him, and both of those teams may have, but they didn't have a top 15 rusher per ypg so I don't know what their top rusher did. I would assume Tre Mason had higher than that, but I don't know. So, no, he is not equipped to be an every down back in the SEC. In the Sun Belt? Absolutely. We need to use him as a Harvin, not a Dixon.
I'd guess Bama made lots of good RBs look bad. Also, I think a lot/most/all??? of his production in those games was dictated by the OL. I personally think in 95% of the cases, RB is the most replaceable position on the field.
11 carries for 38 yards is shouldering the load? 3.5 yards per carry is keeping them honest?
The reason our rushing stats dropped is because we stopped running the QB. Relf rushed for 400 yards in 2011, 700 yards in 2010, and 500 yards in 2009. Russell rushed for -5 yards last year. So I guess if you want to put not picking up all of Relf's slack by himself and not rushing for 1500 yards on Perkins, he's the reason we weren't as effective running the ball.
The reason our rushing stats dropped is because we stopped running the QB. Relf rushed for 400 yards in 2011, 700 yards in 2010, and 500 yards in 2009. Russell rushed for -5 yards last year. So I guess if you want to put not picking up all of Relf's slack by himself and not rushing for 1500 yards on Perkins, he's the reason we weren't as effective running the ball.
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By all means, lets list the backs that had big games against LSU and Alabama last year. Alabama only had three guys go over 90 yards in a game against them, Jeremy Hill, Manziel, and Todd Gurley. So three of the best teams in the country were able to run the ball on Alabama, nobody else. LSU only had one guy go over 90 yards, Mike Gilleslie. So the only teams that had success running the ball on LSU and Alabama were ranked in the final top 14, but we should be able to do it to. Why do you think that?
Who
is saying he needs to be used as Dixon? You're talking about a guy that was 240lb rb. Harvin weighed around 180. Perkins is around 205 (Norwood's size, who was an every down back).
Perkins is more than capable of being an every down back. Guys with a great deal more knowledge/info on the subject than you or I have said this. We'll just have to disagree.
is saying he needs to be used as Dixon? You're talking about a guy that was 240lb rb. Harvin weighed around 180. Perkins is around 205 (Norwood's size, who was an every down back).
Perkins is more than capable of being an every down back. Guys with a great deal more knowledge/info on the subject than you or I have said this. We'll just have to disagree.
So you are just going to disregard he was last or second to last in YPC (depending on UK's RB) in SEC play last year? The point remains he is not built to be a between the tackles RB, and we ask him to do that. I really like Perkins, but I wish we utilized him differently.
He averaged 4.9 YPC against UK, AU, Ark, and UT....
and 2.4 against Bama, A&M, and UM. So in games where the team played well, he played well, and when the team played poorly, he played poorly. I'm just not seeing where you are getting your opinion from. He looked great in 9 out the 12 games he played in.
and 2.4 against Bama, A&M, and UM. So in games where the team played well, he played well, and when the team played poorly, he played poorly. I'm just not seeing where you are getting your opinion from. He looked great in 9 out the 12 games he played in.
Because it's silly to even bring those teams up. Nobody ran the ball on them all year. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone we couldn't run it on them. The other two games, the whole team played poorly. Why are we singling out Perkins? It isn't his fault that when we give a zone read look, nobody on earth believes Russell is going to keep it. No running back is going to have success continuously running dive plays into a stacked line.
I'd be very interested to see an analysis....
of how RB's from elite powerhouse teams drafted high, e.g. Mark Ingram, do against other RB's with a similar draft position who did not play for elite powerhouse tams, e.g. Maurice Jones-Drew (who came off a decent but average UCLA team).
of how RB's from elite powerhouse teams drafted high, e.g. Mark Ingram, do against other RB's with a similar draft position who did not play for elite powerhouse tams, e.g. Maurice Jones-Drew (who came off a decent but average UCLA team).
Plantar fasciitis. That's not torn tendons. It's an inflammation at the front of your heel by your arch. If that's what he had it's damn painful. Back when I was still playing ball the only answer to relieve the pain was cortisone shots in the inflammation. Which that was a terrible pain all by itself.
So you can just take 3 games out of someone's season to improve their stats? Seriously? Lets take every running backs worst three games away and see how their stats are from there. That's brilliant. He performed well against teams that went a combined 3-29. Talk about a world beater. And he didn't play against LSU, so 3 of his 7 SEC games were not good games. My opinion comes from watching every single one of his games and seeing with my own eyes that he is not a between the tackles runner.
My point in bringing them up is that we need to have a big back against them because that's the only way we have a chance of picking up the nitty gritty yards against their monsters. Is that unreasonable for you to comprehend? You can't just throw out two teams we play. Chances are, we aren't going to run well against them, but we have to give ourselves the best chance. And I'm not blaming Perkins. I'm blaming the coaching staff.
Here is Ballard last year in SEC play.
Auburn 21 carries for 135 yards
LSU 10 carries for 38 yards.
Georgia 8 carries for 23 yards
South Carolina 20 carries for 67 yards
Kentucky 18 carries for 90 yards
Alabama 9 carries for 21 yards
Arkansas 13 carries for 54 yards
Ole Miss 23 carries for 144 yards
So 5 of his 8 SEC games were not good games. In 2010, Ballard rushed 22 times for 43 yards against a much weaker Ole Miss team. What is your opinion of him?
Auburn 21 carries for 135 yards
LSU 10 carries for 38 yards.
Georgia 8 carries for 23 yards
South Carolina 20 carries for 67 yards
Kentucky 18 carries for 90 yards
Alabama 9 carries for 21 yards
Arkansas 13 carries for 54 yards
Ole Miss 23 carries for 144 yards
So 5 of his 8 SEC games were not good games. In 2010, Ballard rushed 22 times for 43 yards against a much weaker Ole Miss team. What is your opinion of him?