21.5 points per game

[Perd Hapley]

That is the 13 game average against the P4 for Lebby. This year is 22 points per game so far. Practically zero offensive improvement from Year 1 to Year 2, in spite of staying fully healthy at the QB position all season with our same starter from the beginning of last year.

Do with that information what you will. Pretty much all of this season’s “improvement” is on one side of the ball.

 

[HailStout]

Devil’s advocate:

the other side of the ball is coached by a guy who Lebby hired and stuck with despite all of us losing our freaking minds

 

[Dawg1976]

Good point. And we supposedly have an offensive minded HC. But at least one side of the ball has improved.

 

[onewoof]

That is the 13 game average against the P4 for Lebby. This year is 22 points per game so far. Practically zero offensive improvement from Year 1 to Year 2, in spite of staying fully healthy at the QB position all season with our same starter from the beginning of last year.

Do with that information what you will. Pretty much all of this season’s “improvement” is on one side of the ball.

Florida knew our last play call. Triple coverage and 4th guy was a lineman that dropped back and ran a better route than our WR. Yet Lebney "loved the play call"

 

[Colonel Kang]

The real answer here is:

1. we've been bad at QB for 2 straight years.

2. This year's points mean more than last year's because the games are tight & the other team has their best players on the field & are engaged.

Last year's team probably has a higher scoring average than they deserved based on garbage time points

 

[onewoof]

Fluff would have gotten us that W.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Devil’s advocate:

the other side of the ball is coached by a guy who Lebby hired and stuck with despite all of us losing our freaking minds

Devil’s advocate’s advocate:

The other side of the ball still isn’t anywhere close to good. Given up an average of 27 ppg against P4 teams, and is 15th in the SEC against the run. They simply went from “generationally bad” to “well below average”.

They also have essentially 3 DC’s on that side of the ball.

 

[onewoof]

 

[CaptainFalcon]

We are still too boom/bust offensively. We have drives where we are impressive and others where we are basically going three and out for 4-5 possessions in a row.

Not to heap praise on OM but the thing with Kiffin’s offense that makes it so effective (and this was true when Lebby was there too) is they seem to be able to move it downfield for the first 30 or so yards like it’s nothing. When you can do that, at worst you are flipping field position. And your chances for points obviously go way up.

It was basically 3 full quarters between our first TD and the next time we scored points today. That can’t happen. And it happens to us often.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

We are still too boom/bust offensively. We have drives where we are impressive and others where we are basically going three and out for 4-5 possessions in a row.

Not to heap praise on OM but the thing with Kiffin’s offense that makes it so effective (and this was true when Lebby was there too) is they seem to be able to move it downfield for the first 30 or so yards like it’s nothing. When you can do that, at worst you are flipping field position. And your chances for points obviously go way up.

It was basically 3 full quarters between our first TD and the next time we scored points today. That can’t happen. And it happens to us often.

Yeah we tend to take too many quarters off. Happened against Arizona state too. Need to learn to score consistently. Today turnovers sacks and dumb play calls took us out of scoring position several times.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We left 3 TD’s on the field today that an average SEC QB would have made. Even on the INT we had a receiver wide open behind the defense.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Do with that information what you will.

So reading between the lines, you're saying I should hold off on hotel reservations in Atlanta for the SECCG.

 

[Perd Hapley]

So reading between the lines, you're saying I should hold off on hotel reservations in Atlanta for the SECCG.

Yeah, unless you are still planning to go just to root for whoever is playing against OM***

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Two of the toughest schedules in America too & Shapen missed 21 himself tonight and cost us another 3.

 

[Podgy]

Showtime

 

[bulldoghair]

The real answer here is:

1. we've been bad at QB for 2 straight years.

2. This year's points mean more than last year's because the games are tight & the other team has their best players on the field & are engaged.

Last year's team probably has a higher scoring average than they deserved based on garbage time points

Exactly. Fools gold, I pointed this out last year. Bad thing is, although the defense has improved, the is style of offense for us is not defense friendly. More times than not it’s hurting our defense.

 

[Perd Hapley]

1. we've been bad at QB for 2 straight years.

Another way of saying that is that the best of 4 QB’s that Lebby has brought in (Shapen, Taylor, Kronenhoek, Van Buren) has been a “bad QB” in spite of having 2 years in his system. If true, what does that say about the man in charge of the offense and the program?

Shapen also has a career 143 passer rating.

Here are past QB’s going back 15 years, as a reference:

Michael Van Buren - 129
Will Rogers - 139
KJ Costello - 137
Tommy Stevens - 139
Garrett Shrader - 135
Nick Fitzgerald - 122
Dak Prescott - 146
Tyler Russell - 137
Chris Relf - 131

Statistically, may be hard for a lot of yall to believe, but Shapen is by far and away the 2nd best passing QB in MSU history where it matters - passing efficiency. It’s hard to imagine we are going to be making a habit of bringing in better QB’s than him on a regular basis. If what we’ve seen this far is what the offense is capable of with someone better than everyone not named Dak, then color me skeptical that we’re on the right path.

There’s just no sugarcoating this one. Either Lebby is 0-3 or 0-4 in landing the type of QB he needs, or even the caliber of QB that should have success cannot because of his system or other missing pieces. Either way, it’s not promising.

2. This year's points mean more than last year's because the games are tight & the other team has their best players on the field & are engaged.

Some of them, yes. But again we’ve also been playing with a much more full deck this year on offense. So I’d call that a wash.

 

[bulldoghair]

Two of the toughest schedules in America too & Shapen missed 21 himself tonight and cost us another 3.

Updated version of our schedule is not nearly as tough as it originally planned to be. Some of these teams are not who everyone thought they were so far

 

[bulldoghair]

Another way of saying that is that the best of 4 QB’s that Lebby has brought in (Shapen, Taylor, Kronenhoek, Van Buren) has been a “bad QB” in spite of having 2 years in his system. If true, what does that say about the man in charge of the offense and the program?

Shapen also has a career 143 passer rating.

Here are past QB’s going back 15 years, as a reference:

Michael Van Buren - 129
Will Rogers - 139
KJ Costello - 137
Tommy Stevens - 139
Garrett Shrader - 135
Nick Fitzgerald - 122
Dak Prescott - 146
Tyler Russell - 137
Chris Relf - 131

Statistically, may be hard for a lot of yall to believe, but Shapen is by far and away the 2nd best passing QB in MSU history where it matters - passing efficiency. It’s hard to imagine we are going to be making a habit of bringing in better QB’s than him on a regular basis. If what we’ve seen this far is what the offense is capable of with someone better than everyone not named Dak, then color me skeptical that we’re on the right path.



Some of them, yes. But again we’ve also been playing with a much more full deck this year on offense. So I’d call that a wash.

Passer rating is a useless overrated thing.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Two of the toughest schedules in America too & Shapen missed 21 himself tonight and cost us another 3.

We have the #38 SOS right now. Toughest schedule in America my asś.

 

[Colonel Kang]

We are still too boom/bust offensively. We have drives where we are impressive and others where we are basically going three and out for 4-5 possessions in a row.

Not to heap praise on OM but the thing with Kiffin’s offense that makes it so effective (and this was true when Lebby was there too) is they seem to be able to move it downfield for the first 30 or so yards like it’s nothing. When you can do that, at worst you are flipping field position. And your chances for points obviously go way up.

It was basically 3 full quarters between our first TD and the next time we scored points today. That can’t happen. And it happens to us often.

OM always has quick QBs that prevent teams from rushing

 

[Perd Hapley]

Passer rating is a useless overrated thing.

What would you choose to evaluate our QB’s then?

QBR is better than passer rating, but they don’t publish historical data there for college QB’s.

Facts are that for this system we now have, Shapen is objectively a better starting QB than any other that we have ever had in our history at MSU….except Dak. Doesn’t matter what criteria you choose, its still going to be him.

 

[josebrown]

We left 3 TD’s on the field today that an average SEC QB would have made. Even on the INT we had a receiver wide open behind the defense.

Yea, a good QB would’ve feasted all night on that secondary. Doesn’t bode too well for the rest of our games…

 

[Fighting Irish.sixpack]

That is the 13 game average against the P4 for Lebby. This year is 22 points per game so far. Practically zero offensive improvement from Year 1 to Year 2, in spite of staying fully healthy at the QB position all season with our same starter from the beginning of last year.

Do with that information what you will. Pretty much all of this season’s “improvement” is on one side of the ball.

Showtime!

 

[anon1768925248]

The frustrating part about this offense compared to others we have had is that you can see with your eyes that the scheme actually works. We have an amazing scheme. Our quarterback is just not any good. An average quarterback beats Florida by 2 touchdowns today.

 

[Perd Hapley]

The frustrating part about this offense compared to others we have had is that you can see with your eyes that the scheme actually works. We have an amazing scheme. Our quarterback is just not any good. An average quarterback beats Florida by 2 touchdowns today.

No, you really can’t see that it actually works. An “amazing scheme” doesn’t require a 150+ passer rating QB that can also run like a gazelle in order for it to be successful. An actual amazing scheme can go grab a dude from Ferris Buehler State or whereever the hell it was and plug him right in without anything missing a beat.

Shapen is plenty good enough as a passer for this system to work better than it does. And last year under Van Buren was even worse.

 

[Pookieray]

Fluff would have gotten us that W.

the combination of the two would have made a huge difference.

 

[anon1768925248]

No, you really can’t see that it actually works. An “amazing scheme” doesn’t require a 150+ passer rating QB that can also run like a gazelle in order for it to be successful.

Shapen is plenty good enough as a passer for this system to work better than it does. And last year under Van Buren was even worse.

He definitely is not. The scheme gave him 3 wide a** open touchdowns that he missed tonight. And it definitely looked worse with a true freshman that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn on intermediate throws.

 

[Perd Hapley]

He definitely is not. The scheme gave him 3 wide a** open touchdowns that he missed tonight. And it definitely looked worse with a true freshman that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn on intermediate throws.

Ok, besides Dak, tell me what other QB in MSU’s decorated collection of excellence at that position is definitely making all those throws, or even any of them? All 3 of the “misses” were still 30-40 yard throws….not exactly automatic tosses.

The problem isn’t Shapen missing them, it’s that we rely far too heavily on those chunk plays for success. It’s not a viable strategy.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Another way of saying that is that the best of 4 QB’s that Lebby has brought in (Shapen, Taylor, Kronenhoek, Van Buren) has been a “bad QB” in spite of having 2 years in his system. If true, what does that say about the man in charge of the offense and the program?

Shapen also has a career 143 passer rating.

Here are past QB’s going back 15 years, as a reference:

Michael Van Buren - 129
Will Rogers - 139
KJ Costello - 137
Tommy Stevens - 139
Garrett Shrader - 135
Nick Fitzgerald - 122
Dak Prescott - 146
Tyler Russell - 137
Chris Relf - 131

Statistically, may be hard for a lot of yall to believe, but Shapen is by far and away the 2nd best passing QB in MSU history where it matters - passing efficiency. It’s hard to imagine we are going to be making a habit of bringing in better QB’s than him on a regular basis. If what we’ve seen this far is what the offense is capable of with someone better than everyone not named Dak, then color me skeptical that we’re on the right path.

There’s just no sugarcoating this one. Either Lebby is 0-3 or 0-4 in landing the type of QB he needs, or even the caliber of QB that should have success cannot because of his system or other missing pieces. Either way, it’s not promising.



Some of them, yes. But again we’ve also been playing with a much more full deck this year on offense. So I’d call that a wash.

You over analyze every sport you comment on. The bottom line is wins and losses. Not passing efficiency

 

[anon1768925248]

Ok, besides Dak, tell me what other QB in MSU’s decorated collection of excellence at that position is definitely making all those throws, or even any of them? All 3 of the “misses” were still 30-40 yard throws….not exactly automatic tosses.

The problem isn’t Shapen missing them, it’s that we rely far too heavily on those chunk plays for success. It’s not a viable strategy.

The first one and the one he threw into the band ladder 17 yards out of bounds could have been completed by a competent JUCO quarterback.

 

[Perd Hapley]

The first one and the one he threw into the band ladder 17 yards out of bounds could have been completed by a competent JUCO quarterback.

Well, I tell ya….I don’t know if that’s good news or bad news for the “amazing scheme” guru, because there are a lot of competent JUCO quarterbacks.

Yet, Mr. Amazing Scheme still chose this Shapen guy, and not only has he named him starting QB….he has worked with our powers that be to ensure he gets paid $1.5-$2 million for doing so. The competent JUCO QB wouldn’t be 10% of that.

So, how amazing is this scheme really, if - according to you - all we gotta do is roll down to Scooba to get a plug and play guy to make these throws for nearly nothing, but instead we are paying 7 figures to a guy who can’t?

Either the scheme sucks, or the personnel management sucks. Or both. You definitely can’t call either one a strong suit at this point.

 

[TimberBeast]

What would you choose to evaluate our QB’s then?

QBR is better than passer rating, but they don’t publish historical data there for college QB’s.

Facts are that for this system we now have, Shapen is objectively a better starting QB than any other that we have ever had in our history at MSU….except Dak. Doesn’t matter what criteria you choose, its still going to be him.

He has a good arm, he’s dumber than a box of rocks. Ain’t gonna work

 

[Perd Hapley]

You over analyze every sport you comment on. The bottom line is wins and losses. Not passing efficiency

Do you even have a point, or are you also saying that Lebby and the entire staff are secretly geniuses that are only being held back by the QB position (which they are solely responsible for)?

 

[CaptainFalcon]

OM always has quick QBs that prevent teams from rushing

They’re really good at the intermediate passing game and quick hitters. We haven’t been good in that area at all. Too dependent on deep balls, which as we’ve seen are not high percentage throws or they’re 50/50 at best.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Devil’s advocate:

the other side of the ball is coached by a guy who Lebby hired and stuck with despite all of us losing our freaking minds

Imagine how much more improved that side could have been with anyone else

 

[anon1768925248]

Well, I tell ya….I don’t know if that’s good news or bad news for the “amazing scheme” guru, because there are a lot of competent JUCO quarterbacks.

Yet, Mr. Amazing Scheme still chose this Shapen guy, and not only has he named him starting QB….he has worked with our powers that be to ensure he gets paid $1.5-$2 million for doing so. The competent JUCO QB wouldn’t be 10% of that.

So, how amazing is this scheme really, if - according to you - all we gotta do is roll down to Scooba to get a plug and play guy to make these throws for nearly nothing, but instead we are paying 7 figures to a guy who can’t?

Either the scheme sucks, or the personnel management sucks. Or both. You definitely can’t call either one a strong suit at this point.

The quarterback sucks. I think that’s pretty well established and Lebby chose him twice and that’s on him.

 

[patdog]

Another way of saying that is that the best of 4 QB’s that Lebby has brought in (Shapen, Taylor, Kronenhoek, Van Buren) has been a “bad QB” in spite of having 2 years in his system. If true, what does that say about the man in charge of the offense and the program?

Shapen also has a career 143 passer rating.

Here are past QB’s going back 15 years, as a reference:

Michael Van Buren - 129
Will Rogers - 139
KJ Costello - 137
Tommy Stevens - 139
Garrett Shrader - 135
Nick Fitzgerald - 122
Dak Prescott - 146
Tyler Russell - 137
Chris Relf - 131

Statistically, may be hard for a lot of yall to believe, but Shapen is by far and away the 2nd best passing QB in MSU history where it matters - passing efficiency. It’s hard to imagine we are going to be making a habit of bringing in better QB’s than him on a regular basis. If what we’ve seen this far is what the offense is capable of with someone better than everyone not named Dak, then color me skeptical that we’re on the right path.

There’s just no sugarcoating this one. Either Lebby is 0-3 or 0-4 in landing the type of QB he needs, or even the caliber of QB that should have success cannot because of his system or other missing pieces. Either way, it’s not promising.



Some of them, yes. But again we’ve also been playing with a much more full deck this year on offense. So I’d call that a wash.

Sharon has his flaws. But overall he’s a pretty good QB. yes he missed a couple of deep balls yesterday. But those aren’t exactly high percentage passes & he must lead the league in 40+ yard passes. So I can cut him some slack for those. And the way he stood in & took the hit in that last long pass to Thompson got us back in the game.

 

[patdog]

Updated version of our schedule is not nearly as tough as it originally planned to be. Some of these teams are not who everyone thought they were so far

Looking at you, Texas.

 

[aTotal360]

But at least one side of the ball has improved.

Please tell me you realize the only place the defense could go is up.