The two are not (and should not) be mutually exclusive. One can look to utilize a "surprise explosion of technique" to "humiliate" his opponent and still be in good condition to avoid the need for fake injuries, cold spray, and obvious lunger breaks.
'25 U23 World Championships, 10/20-27 thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Fake injuries are endemic in high-level sports. NBA. Pro soccer. Even college football to slow an opposing offense. Hate seeing it in all sports. Athletes became wusses.
Correction on my last post. Wrong Uulu, sorry for getting everyone’s hope up.
65 semis might have been the worst thing I’ve ever seen. I’ll give the Japanese guy a break because he looks smaller than Blaze.
punishment will be handled at completion of event!!Correction on my last post. Wrong Uulu, sorry for getting everyone’s hope up.
There is difference, of course. Russia and Iran win a LOT of matches internationally. Traditionally, more than we have, though thankfully that is changing. More than even PD3 and his dad's dreams of winning multiple weight classes at once, lol
I like Japan's approach. You rarely see them gas, or use those tactics, and their technique is pretty great too. If there is a way toward a desirable "yes and" approach, they are generally showing the way. As are we as our technique continues to advance. I agree that would be ideal--I'm just saying when we "break" a guy--most of the world doesn't see it the way we do--to them, it is a cheap way to win.
Now Rocco is done. Did not expect that. Tough day so far, let’s get some Gold.
One thing I kind of like about freestyle is quickly going back to neutral after a TD, if it looks like there won't be any exposure points. It's not perfect, but is better than a long ride-out in folk style where the top guy is merely holding the bottom guy down but not making progress toward back points.Yes, the inconsistent officiating and int'l competition drama does inject a sense of arbitrariness that cheapens the outcome for me some. And i don't love the quick gator roll wins.
And yet, nearly all of the elite U.S. wrestlers that I've heard talk about it say they prefer freestyle over folkstyle.
Japanese soccer players are also known for their honorable approach. Almost none of them are divers. Europeans call that kind of honest play “naive” unfortunately.
JALOLOV did absolutely nothing for 5:45 and somehow won. He actually should’ve been put on the clock a third time but that will never happen. Uluu didn’t do much either but a hell of a lot more than jalolov
The worst part is - they don’t let this ish fly at Senior Worlds.
there needs to be a trickle down dangit…
Would love to see Blaze RS this year and come back and be a 4 Time National Champion. DT Even said if he would not have RS he would have never been as successful in college. Think that would be a very smart move by Cael. Send him to tough Open tournaments along with Ono.
Folkstyle isn't exactly immune to this either.
It's a lot less than freestyle -- largely because of the rule change allowing choice, and typically a freebie point. (Though lunger bricks are still an issue.)
Freestyle will similarly require an iron-clad rule awarding points.
Jax is incredible but 61kg is maybe the weakest weight in the tournament. Asan Uluu who Jax will wrestle in the finals placed 17th at u20’s earlier this year. He went 0-2 and lost by tech to Toprak and 9-3 to Stanich. Mukaida has no international results since Cadet Asians in 2019. Jax is doing what he is supposed to do which is hammering all these foreigners. They can’t scramble with him at all. I really want to see a Jax vs Blaze match soon. Such different styles
Blaze doesn’t need a redshirt to win this year.
DT isn’t a far comparison because at this point in his career, he had never wrestled collegiate levels guys on a regular basis and/or competed at the senior level.
Blaze, however, has. And for the better part of 2 years, consistently.
This, I wouldn't be shocked if Cael retires as Teag finishes his college career.
Teag is supposedly jumping levels as well.
He was wrestling up 10 pounds at 143. Most people who know the world freestyle scene expected this when draws were announced. Blaze is a title contender at 133 this year. RS guys that are title contenders usually doesn't happen. Thats exactly how you guys got Rocco because he got RS
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Tough day for the U.S. wrestlers. The only positive out of it is I don't have to wade through the repechage match videos to look for our guys! I feel the worst for Marcus. He definitely is small for the 65kg field. Also, his defensive style doesn't leave much room for error in his matches. He and Jax really are polar opposites in that respect.
Just here to say Luke, Duke, & Levi will be wrestling for hardware soon. Mostly because that's a really cool sounding law firm.
No rush, I think pointing to Mitch is done so with a long term perspective, and a view of his capabilities.
Mitch may have 10 more years of competition before he looks to coach. Will Cael still coach at 56, after breaking all the records and once he physically can't roll around on the mat with the same level of skill, and injuries creep in??? He doesn't seem like the kind of coach that is enriched doing so from a chair at the side of the mat. I am sure he will be one of the fittest 56 year olds anywhere, but his days of 'toying' with U20-23 world champs will be over by then.
If I had to guess, Cael will simply call it quits some day with very little prior indication. We will all be shocked and dismayed, as he holds an impromptu press conference and disappears away into the sunset.
It would be interesting to get the board's take on the over/under of Cael going 10 more years. I suspect 10 more years is a sweet spot and we will see a healthy split if not a majority going with the under. If I was forced to bet, I would go with 8-10 years as my best guess.
That alligns extremely well with Mitchell's likely freestyle world's career, not to mention he might need a couple of years as an assistant first. DT had his club as a coaching proof point.
10 years is a lifetime. I bet a year ago a lot of folks would have had Aaron Brooks on a potential short list. Who knows what the future holds for him now? I think Mitch is special and unique, not just on the mat vs competition. He is my #1 candidate today, but 5 years from now, maybe it will be someone like PJ Duke.
A fun discussion nonetheless, as long as the reality remains many years into the future.
PS - ZERO and I mean zero disrespect for Zain and Nick.
I wonder if some of the reason we see/hear this is just the grind of how we do folkstyle here. Making weight multiple times a week, so many matches, so much live wrestling. It gives us our edge, but it's no wonder that when freestyle season rolls around, things seem easier and more fun. Especially with more ways to score and different things to focus on.
Luke is on deck on mat B . I know when Cael retires is important but this is the u23 thread. Maybe Tom will clean this thread up
I see your point, but it is tough to argue that being broken in front of all other competitors isn't much more humiliating than giving up a 4.
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57kg Finals- Luke Lilledahl vs. Yuta Kikuchi (JPN)
Period 1:
Cody in the corner for Luke. Time to go for the gold! Here we go! Luke reaches for an ankle, but can't get there. He does it again & gets closer, but can't finish. Circling, hand fighting & head tapping. Luke reaches again, but can't get there. Circling & hand fighting in the center. Kikuchi tries a drag, but can't finish. Kikuchi gets a passivity warning. Circling & hand fighting again. Luke reaches for an ankle, but just misses. Kikuchi pushes forward a bit. Luke works back to center. Luke shoots, but Kikuchi blocks him off. Kikuchi gets a 2nd passivity warning & goes on the clock. Circling & hand fighting again. Luke tries to drag, Kikuchi counters, but nothing going. Luke gets a shot clock point, 1-0. Circling & hand fighting again. Luke reaches for an ankle, but Kikuchi steps away. Back to circling & hand fighting. Luke gets a passivity warning. Luke presses forward & reaches for an ankle, then again, but can't connect & the period ends. 1-0 Luke
Period 2:
Back to action Circling & hand fighting. Luke reaches for an ankle immediately, but no luck. Kikuchi shoots. Luke counters, but nobody can finish. Back to circling & hand fighting. Luke tries a drag & reaches for an ankle. He reaches for it again, but can't get there. Kikuchi gets a 3rd passivity warning & goes back on the clock. Circling & hand fighting again. Kikuchi shoots, but no luck. Luke pushes Kikuchi near the edge. Luke gets another shot clock point, 2-0. Luke keeps pressuring Kikuchi near the edge. Kikuchi pushes back to center. Kikuchi shoots, Luke counters & misses, but keeps working & finishes the TD on the edge, 4-0. Out of bounds, neutral restart, 1:01 left. Circling & hand fighting. Luke reaches for a leg, Kikuchi charges forward & they're back to center hand fighting & circling. Kikuchi looks for an opening, Luke circles away. Kikuchi presses forward a little & shoots, but Luke steps away. Kikuchi tries to push Luke out. Luke circles away & takes the win!
Luke Lilledahl DEC Yuta Kikuchi 4-0
Luke wins Gold!!!
Period 1:
Cody in the corner for Luke. Time to go for the gold! Here we go! Luke reaches for an ankle, but can't get there. He does it again & gets closer, but can't finish. Circling, hand fighting & head tapping. Luke reaches again, but can't get there. Circling & hand fighting in the center. Kikuchi tries a drag, but can't finish. Kikuchi gets a passivity warning. Circling & hand fighting again. Luke reaches for an ankle, but just misses. Kikuchi pushes forward a bit. Luke works back to center. Luke shoots, but Kikuchi blocks him off. Kikuchi gets a 2nd passivity warning & goes on the clock. Circling & hand fighting again. Luke tries to drag, Kikuchi counters, but nothing going. Luke gets a shot clock point, 1-0. Circling & hand fighting again. Luke reaches for an ankle, but Kikuchi steps away. Back to circling & hand fighting. Luke gets a passivity warning. Luke presses forward & reaches for an ankle, then again, but can't connect & the period ends. 1-0 Luke
Period 2:
Back to action Circling & hand fighting. Luke reaches for an ankle immediately, but no luck. Kikuchi shoots. Luke counters, but nobody can finish. Back to circling & hand fighting. Luke tries a drag & reaches for an ankle. He reaches for it again, but can't get there. Kikuchi gets a 3rd passivity warning & goes back on the clock. Circling & hand fighting again. Kikuchi shoots, but no luck. Luke pushes Kikuchi near the edge. Luke gets another shot clock point, 2-0. Luke keeps pressuring Kikuchi near the edge. Kikuchi pushes back to center. Kikuchi shoots, Luke counters & misses, but keeps working & finishes the TD on the edge, 4-0. Out of bounds, neutral restart, 1:01 left. Circling & hand fighting. Luke reaches for a leg, Kikuchi charges forward & they're back to center hand fighting & circling. Kikuchi looks for an opening, Luke circles away. Kikuchi presses forward a little & shoots, but Luke steps away. Kikuchi tries to push Luke out. Luke circles away & takes the win!
Luke Lilledahl DEC Yuta Kikuchi 4-0
Luke wins Gold!!!
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His head hands are to good. Luke vs Spencer in 2028 will be a thing
Such a smart match by Luke. I knew he had it when he held center and took attacks to start the 2nd.