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2A/2AA Bracketology

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ReidsvilleRam90

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That's a lot of what ifs. I have a headache just looking at it.

The real wildcard is upset coaches. Throughout the eight brackets, how many teams will suddenly have paperwork issues that cost them games. ''Tis the season for reporting violations on your rival.
 
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beamer24

beamer24

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We probably wont see the rankings until after the brackets are out.
 
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tarheelg

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beamer24 said:
We probably wont see the rankings until after the brackets are out.
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Yes, that's how it was in volleyball, and there were a bunch of big changes toward the bottom affecting the last few wild card teams in....I'm hoping they'll publish the rankings late Friday night/early Saturday morning but I'm not holding my breath
 
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Squirrel Gravy

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Sep 8, 2014
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Are the rankings that we can see now the same rankings the same formula they use for seeding? I know there has been some question about that. I would imagine that there may be some factors that the NCHSAA wouldn't want used for seeding, such as blowout victories or some such.
 
beamer24

beamer24

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I believe they will use updated rankings however those rankings will probably not be public before the brackets are out.
 
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tarheelg

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Friday evenings are tough...my first order of business on Friday evenings is tabulating South Granville's offensive stats to enter on maxpreps and the News & Observer website....second is scouring the internet for scores of the games in two picking contests where I'm in contention...third scouring the internet for scores of all games involving 2A teams, then updating my 2A records, while watching Spectrum News Talk it Out Friday Night Final from 11:00-11:30 then Football Friday on WRAL from 11:30-12:00, then maybe go back and watch SG film on hudl if it's uploaded yet to verify yardage, tackles, etc and enter defensive stats into maxpreps, start writing my article/blog on the SG game...I figure by the time I get all of that done and all scores are in, that IF they're going to publicly release the updated maxpreps rankings, they will have done it and I can get back to work bracketologizing, but like beamer says, they very well might do like they did in volleyball and release the final regular season maxpreps rankings when they release preliminary brackets Saturday sometime
 
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tarheelg

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Squirrel Gravy said:
Are the rankings that we can see now the same rankings the same formula they use for seeding? I know there has been some question about that. I would imagine that there may be some factors that the NCHSAA wouldn't want used for seeding, such as blowout victories or some such.
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Same formula yes, but they only publish their rankings to the public once or twice a week....apparently any time a score is entered into maxpreps, their computer refreshes the rankings....so after every score from this Friday gets entered, the NCHSAA can privately request an updated run not published on the maxpreps website, then those updated rankings (which will include this Friday's games) will be used to seed the brackets, which they will make public at some point, but like I said earlier, I'm afraid that we won't see those rankings until the same time we see the preliminary brackets
 
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strikerHHS

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Aug 11, 2003
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Ouch! Hibriten is about to get a raw deal. Will draw the loser of the Shelby/South Point game -- arguably two best teams in the state.

There should be something in the seeding process to protect against situations like that. that's a really bad break.
 
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tarheelg

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Yes, but with all of the moving and shaking that could go on after this Friday night, there is probably more than a 50% chance that the Shelby/South Point loser will not be in the 7 spot....OR Hibriten loses to Patton this week, they'll be going to the Shelby/South Point winner in the 2nd Rd if they get the 8 or 9 seed
 
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tarheelg

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ReidsvilleRam90 said:
That's a lot of what ifs. I have a headache just looking at it.

The real wildcard is upset coaches. Throughout the eight brackets, how many teams will suddenly have paperwork issues that cost them games. ''Tis the season for reporting violations on your rival.
Click to expand...
Also concerned about potential for a brawl leading to multiple ejections and costing a good team a chance....especially if they have a game involving a team with nothing to lose who knows they're not going to the playoffs
 
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strikerHHS

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coondog8585 said:
If your good don't matter who they put in front of you..
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That old cliche is always used in the wrong manner...

Hibriten, South Point, and Shelby are all in the top 6 of the 2A poll, so I think we can all agree they're "good"

Bracket seeding was created to A) reward top 4 teams for their regular season performance and B) hoping those big-time matchups happen in the later rounds

It's so simple. You can easily keep the NCHSAA guidelines regarding qualifying: i.e (conference champions and automatic qualifiers ) - once you determine who the 16 teams are, you then seed them based on MaxPrep ranking.

Current MaxPrep overall state ranking: South Point 12, Shelby 14, North Surry 138

Keep in mind that whoever loses the South Point/Shelby game will receive a lower seed than North Surry in the playoffs. Having Shelby or South Point labeled the 7th seed is an ABSOLUTE JOKE!
 
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beamer24

beamer24

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Yep that dreaded 7th seed has been forseen by many who thought Shelby would go big.
 
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tarheelg

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strikerHHS said:
That old cliche is always used in the wrong manner...

Hibriten, South Point, and Shelby are all in the top 6 of the 2A poll, so I think we can all agree they're "good"

Bracket seeding was created to A) reward top 4 teams for their regular season performance and B) hoping those big-time matchups happen in the later rounds

It's so simple. You can easily keep the NCHSAA guidelines regarding qualifying: i.e (conference champions and automatic qualifiers ) - once you determine who the 16 teams are, you then seed them based on MaxPrep ranking.

Current MaxPrep overall state ranking: South Point 12, Shelby 14, North Surry 138

Keep in mind that whoever loses the South Point/Shelby game will receive a lower seed than North Surry in the playoffs. Having Shelby or South Point labeled the 7th seed is an ABSOLUTE JOKE!
Click to expand...
Yes, but since they started seeding in the mid to late 1990s, no matter which of the 4 or 5 different ways to approach how they seed, one constant has always been that under no circumstances will a team that was not a conference champion be seeded ahead of a team that is a conference champion...they're just following their own rules....now I would definitely that some of their rules definitely need to be changed, some with a slight tweak and some drastically, but it's not the NCAA Basketball tournament where the committee can rig the brackets to keep UNC & Duke apart until the Final Four or Monday night championship game...now if they went back to predetermined brackets by conference seed like before the mid 1990s they could make sure that the 1 & 2 from same conference dont meet until regional finals but you can't do predetermined brackets with subdivided playoffs and/or so many wild card teams getting in, would hate it myself, but I've seen it happen to my team so many times in so many sports
 
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tarheelg

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strikerHHS said:
That old cliche is always used in the wrong manner...

Hibriten, South Point, and Shelby are all in the top 6 of the 2A poll, so I think we can all agree they're "good"

Bracket seeding was created to A) reward top 4 teams for their regular season performance and B) hoping those big-time matchups happen in the later rounds

It's so simple. You can easily keep the NCHSAA guidelines regarding qualifying: i.e (conference champions and automatic qualifiers ) - once you determine who the 16 teams are, you then seed them based on MaxPrep ranking.

Current MaxPrep overall state ranking: South Point 12, Shelby 14, North Surry 138

Keep in mind that whoever loses the South Point/Shelby game will receive a lower seed than North Surry in the playoffs. Having Shelby or South Point labeled the 7th seed is an ABSOLUTE JOKE!
Click to expand...
And I'm not claiming that North Surry is a better team that whoever finishes 2nd in the Southwestern, but the even bigger absolute jokes are some of the split conference division winners that will not only make the playoffs, but get seeded with the tier of 1s...If it plays out the way it's looking, you could have a 1-10 4A team get a 1st Rd bye then host a 2nd Rd game...that's the type of situation I think they will address first in rule tweaks for next year
 
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strikerHHS

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tarheelg said:
And I'm not claiming that North Surry is a better team that whoever finishes 2nd in the Southwestern, but the even bigger absolute jokes are some of the split conference division winners that will not only make the playoffs, but get seeded with the tier of 1s...If it plays out the way it's looking, you could have a 1-10 4A team get a 1st Rd bye then host a 2nd Rd game...that's the type of situation I think they will address first in rule tweaks for next year
Click to expand...

No, you're right and I'm not trying to attack you - sorry about that.

I just don't think what I mentioned would look like the NCHSAA was "rigging" anything. Tweak that rule - a conference championship should get you an automatic ticket into the playoffs, but it shouldn't have anything to do with determining your seeding.

To your point, not all conference's are created equal. You should always want to set up an accurate bracket and be fair to all parties involved. It's not even remotely hard to tweak this, either. Once you have your field of qualified teams, you then rank them and assign the appropriate seeding. MaxPreps (a reliable source) makes this an easy process. You don't like them? Come up with a formula of your own.

These are your member schools. You should always want to get the bracket right for them. It's 2017. There's a statistical way to do it.
 
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tarheelg

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by the way, don't forget that North Surry could still wind up in small 2A West...or go 2AA East
 
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tarheelg

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HHSgoodFAN said:
If mount Pleasant goes West Big 2AA could that drop Shelby to Small 2A
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No, the 2A/2AA split is done before the East/West split....the only way Shelby goes to 2A would be a weird scenario where North Surry went small 2A, AND TW Andrews went small 2A (or gets knocked out of the playoffs), AND West Stokes goes small 2A....for this to happen, you would need at least 3 teams currently not listed as in to make it, candidates including Washington, North Lincoln, North Lenoir, Currituck, but would also need Ashe AND West Iredell to stay in the playoffs....the chance of Shelby going 2A are about the same as South Point going East or Wallace-Rose Hill going West....There is a crazy outside shot of it happening, but I would strongly suggest against betting one stalk of corn on it, let alone the whole farm
 
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W.I.R.

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One still POSSIBLE scenario would be n SURRY stay big but mt pleasant come back west. That pushes Shelby South point into a 2nd round matchup..
 
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raidertime

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Aug 18, 2003
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Before the SP/Shelby game is played, these are clearly 2 of the very best teams in 2A football. The system is broken when these teams will be ranked ahead of Shelby or SP after tomorrow night.
3-Franklin (10)
4-Maiden (14)
5-North Surry (27)
6-Wilkes Central (29)
 
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tarheelg

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raidertime said:
Before the SP/Shelby game is played, these are clearly 2 of the very best teams in 2A football. The system is broken when these teams will be ranked ahead of Shelby or SP after tomorrow night.
3-Franklin (10)
4-Maiden (14)
5-North Surry (27)
6-Wilkes Central (29)
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I don't disagree with you that these two, on paper anyway, are the two best teams, but I cannot agree that "the system is broken" when whoever finishes second in the conference won't get seeded ahead of others who won their conference....It seems that people have forgotten that they've been seeding conference champions ahead of 2nd place teams for about 20 years...would have happened last year, the year before, right on back to whichever year in the mid-1990s they got away from the predetermined conference brackets (Conf A #1 vs. Conf C #4, Conf B #2 vs. Conf D #3, etc.) and went to seeding 1-16; only it may not have seemed as magnified with those maxpreps rankings coming out every week with those two great teams trading places at 1 & 2 for 10 weeks, maxpreps has been doing rankings for some time, but we only started to notice a little last year because it was used to break ties for teams in same tier with identical records, this year we've known all year it was the end-all be-all for seeding the playoffs, except for the results on the field in conference play putting all conference champs at the top....

I've always said that seed is not a ranking from best teams to worst, but just a number to set up the bracket, If you watch any NCAA basketball in March, you know that number means nothing once the game starts if you get two evenly matched teams that play hard and don't want their season to end; that number just gives people something to talk about...(Clueless fan (of college basketball or high school football): OOOOOH, DID YOU SEE THAT 13 BEAT THE BRAKES OFF THAT 4 SEED?! Voice of Reason: Well, that 13 seed played half of their season with their 2 best players hurt and just got them back a month ago; that 4's been overrated and hadn't played anybody all year; really not surprised; shouldn't even be considered an upset)

While I do hope/expect the powers that be will make a couple of tweaks to the way teams qualify for the playoffs or get seeded for next year, I cannot imagine them going strictly to maxpreps rankings for seeding the entire bracket and not taking conference finish into consideration
 
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tarheelg

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By the way (just leaving this here): Does everybody realize, with the East/West cutline in 2AA right now sitting between Mount Pleasant and North Surry, the next few teams to slide to the East after North Surry are: West Iredell (who could drop out of the playoff picture), then East Lincoln, then South Point? It would take Bedlam on steroids level chaotic unforeseen upsets, just saying that not much is set in stone if you're anywhere near the cutline between 2A/2AA and East/West
 
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