2nd Best Mississippi State QB
- Thread starter Pak Drescott
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Quarterbacks at MSU have always been dependent on the OL, for a couple of reasons. One, the only obvious NFL talent we've ever had was Dak, and two, to overcome that, you just have to be an almost elite runner to pull it off (and most times if you are, you don't throw well enough). We've actually had quite a few good QBs who would maybe have half bad seasons and half good seasons because of the up and down OL from year to year. Tony Shell, Derrick Taite, Matt Wyatt, Wayne Madkin, Kevin Fant, Tyler Russell and now Blake Shapen......all showed flashes but just couldn't do much over the course of multiple seasons because of OL. And even the runners eventually have trouble. Sleepy got lucky in that he only played two seasons so not even time for it to catch up to him. Rogers had Leach, who knew the value of the OL.....which made Rogers look so much better than his actual ability.
The two most egregious things as far as QBs and MSU football was Moorhead's coaching of Fitzgerald (and obviously Mullen bailing on us) and Croom's coaching of Omarr Conner. And another that was bad but you can't call it egregious because it was bad luck was Leach not being able to coach Sawyer Robertson. Mullen actually had the ability to create passing opportunities for Fitzgerald to nearly make him a legit dual threat. Omarr had the ability to be like Pat White with the right coach as well.
That perfect setup just never seems to happen at MSU and Mullen dang near did it twice. So that tells you the type of QB we need right there. I could say Leach nearly did the same but I don't really even know what type of offenses are out there, Air Raid vs. run-based. What it tells me more than anything is we need a ball control offense and lead with defense. To minimize QB and OL.
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Obviously we will never know but I've often wondered what Don Smith under Mullen could have done.
Very possibly. I think he would have been in the heisman discussion because we would have been winning big with that defense and Fitz would have put up numbers in a Mullen Offense. He would have been the SEC's all time leading Rushing QB on probably a 10 win team. Might not get him an invite to NY but I feel like he definitely would have been in lots of discussions leading up to it.
I think you’re trying too hard to be a contrarian.
Dak is objectively the greatest MSU QB in history. Nobody with a brain would argue against that.
Parker was a great athlete, in the pre-integration era, when the lack of evolution in the passing game essentially made the QB just another RB. Really, not a whole lot that happened in that era really matters at all, because 90% of the best athletes weren’t allowed to play college football.
If you want to throw Parker in there in the discussion with Bond, Felker, Fitz, Madkin, Reed, and Don Smith as the 2nd greatest, then fine, but you’re going to have very similar issues comparing against them, too. I personally don’t believe in even looking at any data before 1966 when trying to determine who the best anything was at MSU. QB, RB, point guard, doesn’t matter.
1)That would be you.
2) That is sad. Those guys played when they played and they can't help that. You just threw our greatest ever basketball player out as well.
Madkin has the nostalgia factor for me. Nick was a better football player, but Madkin did go to the SEC Champ.
I’m being “contrarian” by saying Dak is our greatest ever QB, in a thread about who the 2nd greatest QB where OP clearly states Dak is the greatest?
I never said he wasn’t very good / elite for his time. But it’s really hard to put anyone in that era in the GOAT territory when you consider the level of competition, and how different the game was.
In Howell’s case, he at least played against black players in the NBA (and possibly in college), and was still elected to the NBA hall of fame. So at least with him you have a data point that projects how well he would have held his own. And yet, many MSU fans would put Malone above him when strictly looking at what each did in college.
Dak is not the most decorated QB in our history. That is Parker.
Howell did not play against black players in college.
You judge best Of all time by how they did in the era they played in, not by how you think they would do now. It’s like judging people 200 years ago by the social standards of today.
1953 All-America college football team - Wikipedia
Soooooo…..He was actually not a 1st team All-American in 1953. He was also not even 2nd team. He was named 3rd team All-American by 3 of the 8 organizations who named the teams then.
The unanimous 1st team AA QB was Paul Giel of Minnesota, who was also the only consensus All American at the QB position.
So, the whole discussion is moot. Good player, though.
I'm not sure, but despite the rumors to the contrary, he was not my dad.
I worked with a guy that played ball with Jackie Parker in the Canadian Football League. His name was Joe Bob Smith. He played his college ball at Houston. He told me that Jackie Parker was the best athlete he ever played football with. He also played for the Detroit Lions. He had some great stories about his college and pro careers.
So THIS wiki says he was a first team all american in 1953.1953 All-America college football team - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Soooooo…..He was actually not a 1st team All-American in 1953. He was also not even 2nd team. He was named 3rd team All-American by 3 of the 8 organizations who named the teams then.
The unanimous 1st team AA QB was Paul Giel of Minnesota, who was also the only consensus All American at the QB position.
So, the whole discussion is moot. Good player, though.
Jackie Parker - Wikipedia
The Football Writers Association of America (FWAA) All America team in those days just had a grouping for backs and Parker was one of three QBs in that group. So there were basically three First Team QBs on that particular team. That's the closest he came to First Team on any of the listings.
I've learned this since this thread began.
Your link is incorrect. The very source material in it eventually points back to my same link, when you click it and select “1953” from the year-by-year section.
Author of the Parker wiki took it upon themselves to write “First team” in front of the All-American title that is linked as source material.
Correct. FWAA did not rank into 1st, 2nd, 3rd teams. They simply selected a very large group of players. You either were a FWAA all-American or you were not.
Talk about a dumb argument. No way to judge Jackie Parker and Dak Prescott against each other. They both played pro ball.
Best just change "all time" to "the last 50 years", which is a nice round number. Dak is the guy.
Best just change "all time" to "the last 50 years", which is a nice round number. Dak is the guy.
I was thinking about it and a good way to do it is to drop whatever QB on a 6-6 talent team, and see how far he would take that team. Considering that, I think you're looking at Robinson, Bond and Smith. Smith probably wins. I think Relf, Madkin, Russell and Rogers fall off.
I still say Omarr could have been right there had he not had the terrible misfortune of playing for one of the worst head coaches of all time.
Yeah I put Smith second. I remember him breaking it off in Ten. Such a great player that had such sht teams .
You know, a guy that played pretty recently and is rarely mentioned in these kinds of threads is Tyler Russell.
He had his issues, but he was the first real NFL type of size and arm talent combo we had in all my years of watching State through the 80's, 90's and 00's. I think he was a better QB than a lot of the guys mentioned who had better talent around them and/or where playing in a much weaker SEC.
He had his issues, but he was the first real NFL type of size and arm talent combo we had in all my years of watching State through the 80's, 90's and 00's. I think he was a better QB than a lot of the guys mentioned who had better talent around them and/or where playing in a much weaker SEC.
He is on a first team list. Just not the one you prefer. You can have the last word. You always do.