6A?

[28772]

What if we went to more classifications and no split (A/AA)?

Just an example
1A-0-500
2A- 500-900
3A- 901-1200
4A -1201-1500
5A -1500- 1800
6A -1800 and up

I know there have been threads about this before and people know a lot more about this than I. But, I think this stops the split classification drama. Just a discussion starter, not an argument. I think the real question is should the state look at reclassifying and changing the # of "A's" we have. Thoughts?

 

[Leopard98]

What if we went to more classifications and no split (A/AA)?

Just an example
1A-0-500
2A- 500-900
3A- 901-1200
4A -1201-1500
5A -1500- 1800
6A -1800 and up

I know there have been threads about this before and people know a lot more about this than I. But, I think this stops the split classification drama. Just a discussion starter, not an argument. I think the real question is should the state look at reclassifying and changing the # of "A's" we have. Thoughts?

The 1-a would probably need to end around 550 -575 that is a tall order for big 1-a to compete with big 2-aa schools that would tall order .There would be years certain 1-a schools would be competitive but not many

 

[Mitchell county mountie]

Drop to 3 classes 1a, 2a, and 3a, and subdivide them. Just 6 classes is a geographical nightmare in nc.

 

[28772]

The 1-a would probably need to end around 550 -575 that is a tall order for big 1-a to compete with big 2-aa schools that would tall order .There would be years certain 1-a schools would be competitive but not many

 

[28772]

I am not set on the numbers. I just think there has to be a better way than we are doing it now.

 

[FarWestNorthCarolinaSports]

Look at GA.
Swain would be 2a.

 

[btango]

Drop to 3 classes 1a, 2a, and 3a, and subdivide them. Just 6 classes is a geographical nightmare in nc.

Non football sports seem to get competitive so would not want to take those to six classes.

Separate football alignment or revamp the playoffs which be structured into six divisions which I believe would be the most simple option.

Don’t fool yourself on subdividing. When the NCHSAA did proposals about five years ago one was five classifications. At the every region meeting one of the first questions was would they still subdivide football playoffs.

 

[MilltownUSA]

I do think 5 classifications makes perfect sense

 

[rville20]

What if we went to more classifications and no split (A/AA)?

Just an example
1A-0-500
2A- 500-900
3A- 901-1200
4A -1201-1500
5A -1500- 1800
6A -1800 and up

I know there have been threads about this before and people know a lot more about this than I. But, I think this stops the split classification drama. Just a discussion starter, not an argument. I think the real question is should the state look at reclassifying and changing the # of "A's" we have. Thoughts?

1A 0-400 I don't care about the rest

 

[Leopard98]

Classify it like TN. Best option

That would be fun to watch

 

[Leopard98]

Here is Tennessee's:

Class 1A 52 0-375
Class 2A 48 376-556
Class 3A 48 557-821
Class 4A 47 822-1102
Class 5A 54 1103-1508
Class 6A 49 1509 and greater

I am sure some adjustment would be needed based on number of schools, but it would make for the most equitable and competitive classification.

I would be tickled to death to see that the one thing with them numbers you close a gap of uncertainty

 

[Leopard98]

I would be tickled to death to see that the one thing with them numbers you close a gap of uncertainty

And gives the kids in smaller schools something to play for

 

[btango]

I do think 5 classifications makes perfect sense

It seems perfect until it is laid out in a map. Then it gets a bit out if whack.

I would guarantee that you would have football coaches, especially in 1A and the largest class (whether five or six), wanting to subdivide.

 

[mbdfan_rivals121259]

Here is Tennessee's:

Class 1A 52 0-375
Class 2A 48 376-556
Class 3A 48 557-821
Class 4A 47 822-1102
Class 5A 54 1103-1508
Class 6A 49 1509 and greater

I am sure some adjustment would be needed based on number of schools, but it would make for the most equitable and competitive classification.

There are 19 football playing schools in North Carolina with 375 or less students, there are 53 in Tennessee. There are 103 North Carolina schools with 1,509 or more students, there are 49 in Tennessee. North Carolina is a much more populous state than Tennessee, those numbers wouldnt work here.

 

[btango]

The only addition of classifications I think is needed is to add a non football class for charters and 1A magnets. Not enough charters in football at this time to do it fir football.

 

[Mitchell county mountie]

The problem lies in the NCHSAA' s determination to rid the state of split conferences. I still like 1a, 2a, and 3a for conference placement, and do division 1 and 2, in each for playoffs. 6 championships and would work for non-football sports too. It would also help rid split conferences...

Edit:

33% split would leave you with 126 teams across 3 classes.
1a would cap at Lincolnton with 821
2a would start with Pasquotank at 825
2a would cap with Northern Durham at 1589
3a would start with AL Brown at 1590

This would give you an adm gap of roughly 400, which I feel is fair.

Then use the seeding/qualifying/subdivision system we have now.

 

[mbdfan_rivals121259]

I still like 1a, 2a, and 3a for conference placement, and do division 1 and 2, in each for playoffs. 6 championships and would work for non-football sports too. It would also help rid split conferences...

Ive been parroting this setup for 8 years now, glad someone else agrees.

 

[Leopard98]

There are 19 football playing schools in North Carolina with 375 or less students, there are 53 in Tennessee. There are 103 North Carolina schools with 1,509 or more students, there are 49 in Tennessee. North Carolina is a much more populous state than Tennessee, those numbers wouldnt work here.

So do you agree that there is a gap between 550-600

 

[mbdfan_rivals121259]

So do you agree that there is a gap between 550-600

Yes but you can only subdivide so many times. The gap between a school with 300 students playing a school with 600 students is the same gap you see in 4A where you have schools with 1,600 students playing schools with 3,200 students.

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

Makes too much sense. State doesn't want to lose that money from losing 2 classifications in football granted I think having 2 more classifications in basketball and volleyball would help pick up some of that.

 

[Mitchell county mountie]

Ive been parroting this setup for 8 years now, glad someone else agrees.

Check my edited post, see if that makes sense to you.

 

[Leopard98]

Yes but you can only subdivide so many times until there is no longer a point. The gap between a school with 300 students playing a school with 600 students is no different than in 4A where you have schools with 1,600 students playing schools with 3,200 students.

How many times has a school with 300 kids won against a school with 500 kids how many times has a school with 500 schools beat a team with 600 kids. And I do know it happens. But I’m in the east and I know I piss a lot of people off but I’m just pulling strings and don’t take it serious but it is a lottery out here if go small there is a chance for a championship but if you go big your just playing for a *** whipping

 

[mbdfan_rivals121259]

Then up it to 400 or 450 for the beginning classification. I said that it would probably need some tweaking based on the school numbers, but the 1a # in our state is currently too high. Period

The reality is that 19 I quoted you is only going to get smaller. Creswell and Plymouth consolidated this year, South Creek and Riverside are consolidating soon. Rosman, Andrews, North Stokes have been a part of consolidation talks. At some point the only football playing schools in the state with 375 or less students will be one school low population counties like Tyrell (Columbia), Hyde (Mattamaskeet), Graham (Robbinsville), Jones, Washington and a few charter schools.

 

[MHS1995]

The reality is that 19 I quoted you is only going to get smaller. Creswell and Plymouth consolidated this year, South Creek and Riverside are consolidating soon. Rosman, Andrews, North Stokes have been a part of consolidation talks. At some point the only football playing schools in the state with 375 or less students will be one school low population counties like Tyrell (Columbia), Hyde (Mattamaskeet), Graham (Robbinsville), Jones, Washington and a few charter schools.

bk and rv20 would love that!

 

[FarWestNorthCarolinaSports]

Can someone post how GA does classification

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

The reality is that 19 I quoted you is only going to get smaller. Creswell and Plymouth consolidated this year, South Creek and Riverside are consolidating soon. Rosman, Andrews, North Stokes have been a part of consolidation talks. At some point the only football playing schools in the state with 375 or less students will be one school low population counties like Tyrell (Columbia), Hyde (Mattamaskeet), Graham (Robbinsville), Jones, Washington and a few charter schools.

I haven't heard talks of North Stokes consolidating. I don't see how that would be geographically possible. That would be a crazy drive for some kids from the north end of the county to South or West. I'd think Danbury would push for a charter if that ended up being what happened.

 

[btango]

Makes too much sense. State doesn't want to lose that money from losing 2 classifications in football granted I think having 2 more classifications in basketball and volleyball would help pick up some of that.

Before the current realignment process started the state went through options at each of the regional meetings. Five classifications was one. Might have been a six classification option but do not remember. Three classifications subdivided was another. There were some other options but three and five along with the current four were the main discussion. Schools did not seem to like four at all. Five does not work well with conference structures.

The one I favored that also did not get any traction was a four classification alignment for all sports other than football and a separate football alignment. Non football alignment would continue as it is. Football would also align every four year but in the middle of the non football alignment. Think Summer and Winter Olympic format. Schools were not for it. Thought it would be too complicated and cause rivalries to be lost. I thought it was the perfect option as football (coaches) would have had autonomy on their sport. This would have allowed them to be a stronger voice in the set up classifications, conferences, and playoffs.

 

[Mitchell county mountie]

Before the current realignment process started the state went through options at each of the regional meetings. Five classifications was one. Might have been a six classification option but do not remember. Three classifications subdivided was another. There were some other options but three and five along with the current four were the main discussion. Schools did not seem to like four at all. Five does not work well with conference structures.

The one I favored that also did not get any traction was a four classification alignment for all sports other than football and a separate football alignment. Non football alignment would continue as it is. Football would also align every four year but in the middle of the non football alignment. Think Summer and Winter Olympic format. Schools were not for it. Thought it would be too complicated and cause rivalries to be lost. I thought it was the perfect option as football (coaches) would have had autonomy on their sport. This would have allowed them to be a stronger voice in the set up classifications, conferences, and playoffs.

Football is an athletic departments real money maker. It pays for all the other sports, and it should take presidence over other sports when it comes to realignment and playoff structures. I still think that 3 classes, subdivided would work in all sports...

 

[mbdfan_rivals121259]

I haven't heard talks of North Stokes consolidating. I don't see how that would be geographically possible. That would be a crazy drive for some kids from the north end of the county to South or West. I'd think Danbury would push for a charter if that ended up being what happened.

Maybe Im misremembering but I feel like Ive heard mentions of future consolidation in Stokes County. North Stokes and South Stokes both have a rapidly declining enrollment. All the growth is in West Stokes district. The drive from Danbury to King is extreme, the drive from Danbury to Walnut Cove isnt ideal but not nearly as bad. I could see North and South combining eventually since they are both bleeding numbers and the fact that it would be much more feasible to combine those two than anything involving West.

 

[ocdavis31]

Before the current realignment process started the state went through options at each of the regional meetings. Five classifications was one. Might have been a six classification option but do not remember. Three classifications subdivided was another. There were some other options but three and five along with the current four were the main discussion. Schools did not seem to like four at all. Five does not work well with conference structures.

The one I favored that also did not get any traction was a four classification alignment for all sports other than football and a separate football alignment. Non football alignment would continue as it is. Football would also align every four year but in the middle of the non football alignment. Think Summer and Winter Olympic format. Schools were not for it. Thought it would be too complicated and cause rivalries to be lost. I thought it was the perfect option as football (coaches) would have had autonomy on their sport. This would have allowed them to be a stronger voice in the set up classifications, conferences, and playoffs.

I’d favor six classes with no subdivision. That would eliminate the ADM issue, except at time of realignment. It would also minimize the sometimes significant differences between the largest and smallest schools in a class. Obviously, when you get to the largest class, there would still be a gap. But I contend that it’s easier for a 1650 school to compete against a 3000 school than for a 650 school to compete with a 1150 school, especially in football. That extra 50-75 players in the latter makes a tremendous difference.

However, I say all of that in a vacuum of geographic information. I have no idea of the complexities that would create. I recognize that there are areas of the state where the above may not work. And I’m adamantly opposed to split conferences and believe that having those would negate the validity of this method of resolving the problem

 

[btango]

Currently, I think the four classification format is the best option but with the same amount of football playing schools in each classification (25/25/25/25). In non football playoffs setup a separate 1A classification for non traditional schools. This would be any 1A schools that have students playing sports that live outside the school's district with a few exceptions (teacher at the school's children for example). Charters and magnets (1A) would fall into this with some schools that we consider.

Determining what a "traditional" school is would be a major item to determine in this scheme but I think it is much deeper than just charters and magnets. Some schools may not like the result and would possibly need to change some of their policies to stay in 1A Traditional.

Football would remain with all other sports.
Football would qualify 192 teams for the playoffs. (Currently 256 qualify.)
The same amount of schools from each class (48) would make the playoffs.
List the schools from largest to smallest using the current ADMs.
1-32 would be Division 1. 33-64 Division 2. Smallest 32 Division 6.
Six football champions. Play at two centrally located facilities in the Triad. Try to get away from the ACC stadiums other than Wake Forest.

Regardless of a school's classification they would play with school's that are closer to their size. Under the current system where the school stays in their classificaion we have seen 1A schools with 3A numbers due to the student body growth between the last year's of the alignment and the ADM used to determine classifications.

The above meets some of the items that schools noted during the last realignment phase and continue to point out now.

Schools did not like a separate alignment for football. Schools did not like the split conferences. Schools did not like adding classifications to the non football sports.

There is an issue with charters/magnets and district hopping which hits 1A schools more than any other. The change in ADMs is not as drastic with the playoff setup in football which is the sport that numbers seem to mean the most.

I am sure many football coaches would complain about the reduction in teams making the playoffs and the removal of two champions. For those that think the NCHSAA would be against reducing the football playoffs you are incorrect. They did not push for subdividing (1A coaches did) and they have offered options to reduce the number of teams and champions. The NCHSAA admin pushed hard to reduce 1A and 4A to four rounds which I thought was justified but settled on the 48 teams and a bye for higher seeds.

 

[btango]

I think the largest issue facing the NCHSAA and the schools is how to deal with charters and magnets at the small school level. That needs to be determined before the alignment and classifications are determined.

First thing I would like to see is the definition of a "Traditional" school. That is going to be changing more than ever as the on line schools and classes continue to increase.

Also, I expect to see another push for "home school" students to be allowed to take part in extracurricular activities. If the student will attend two classes a day at a school it is my understanding the school can count them as a student and receive the government per student stipend which is what the schools want. This is going to happen although I currently do not support it.

 

[Gwytoli]

Cherokee would fall in that also I think

 

[28772]

THANKS! Really good discussion. I think that it shows there are a lot of ways to do this and a lot better way than we currently do it!

 

[Griddie]

6A is the way to go. Or 3 and divide in every sport.

 

[rville20]

bk and rv20 would love that!

Just like murphy likes playing in the kiddy pool now.

 

[wncbowhunter]

Just like murphy likes playing in the kiddy pool now.

I would love to see the size of this horse. Cause it must have been/be huge to be able to take a beating for this long and often.

 

[Thunder_struck8712]

Maybe Im misremembering but I feel like Ive heard mentions of future consolidation in Stokes County. North Stokes and South Stokes both have a rapidly declining enrollment. All the growth is in West Stokes district. The drive from Danbury to King is extreme, the drive from Danbury to Walnut Cove isnt ideal but not nearly as bad. I could see North and South combining eventually since they are both bleeding numbers and the fact that it would be much more feasible to combine those two than anything involving West.

With the way Stokes County is, it really wouldn't shock me though. They did close one of the elementary schools in the North district recently.

 

[rville20]

I would love to see the size of this horse. Cause it must have been/be huge to be able to take a beating for this long and often.

be careful what you wish for, because Mitchel has started playing the same hand as murphy.

 

[btango]

6A is the way to go. Or 3 and divide in every sport.

With four classifications for non football there could be a fifth class for 1A non traditional. Going to six classes would require a seventh class for that. Why add onto sports that already are competitive minus the charters/magnets?

I am all for less football champions but totally against additional classes for other sports except to separate out the non traditional schools which is not only the charters and magnets. Give 1A a true classification.

Until a charter wins football I do not think much will come out of it and that is the sport that is currently and will be the least dominated by them.