Air-Raid Offense coming to Wisconsin

[NickRU714]

@rutgersguy1 posted this but it probably deserves its own thread.

A certain segment of fans like to point to Wisconsin as this model of "run first, control the clock, slow" offense that we can (and should) mimic.
That's "how you win in the Big Ten. Low scoring and let the defense win the game."

Well, seems even vaunted Wisconsin is looking to update their offense and lean more into passing and scoring points.

So does everyone still think we should model the team around Wisconsin and their potentially high scoring offense?

 

[rubigtimenow]

With a fantastic OC that has had great success at various stops over the years.
And is from NJ, played high school and college ball in Jersey, and coached HS in Jersey.

 

[Scarlet16e2]

Good. Maybe we’ll be able to recruit the running backs that otherwise would have gone to Wisconsin.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Good. Maybe we’ll be able to recruit the running backs that otherwise would have gone to Wisconsin.

As I said in the other thread, there's a misconception that these "Air Raid" offenses don't run the ball. They do. Longo was actually able to hold onto Wisconsin't backfield after coming on board. He's had 1000 yard rushers multiple times in his career at OC and even once had 2 1000 yard rushers. I think it was one year at UNC. Leach threw it around a lot (I think even he started to run a little more lately) but many of the other offshoots have their own twists on it. I think Harrell and maybe KK are closest to Leach in that regard.

Briles' Baylor teams were often in the top 5-20 in rushing. Kendal's time as OC at Arkansas had them in the top 10 in rushing. TCU was 31 in rushing last year. Heupel at Tenn was 26 and 12 in rushing in his 2 years. All of them talk about the importance of running the ball and they do it.

Main things about Air Raid imo are KISS and use of tempo, open offense that's simple to pick up and utilizes tempo. The rest, everyone has their own twist on what they want to run.

 

[RUAir-Raid]

@rutgersguy1 posted this but it probably deserves its own thread.

A certain segment of fans like to point to Wisconsin as this model of "run first, control the clock, slow" offense that we can (and should) mimic.
That's "how you win in the Big Ten. Low scoring and let the defense win the game."

Well, seems even vaunted Wisconsin is looking to update their offense and lean more into passing and scoring points.

So does everyone still think we should model the team around Wisconsin and their potentially high scoring offense?

I think RU should always be running a gimmicky offense. Either the air raid, triple option, or slow mesh (Wake Forest). If you can’t get the best recruits, why not just run one of these. These offenses have success in getting teams to six wins or more, which is something we haven’t done in a long time.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Our issues aren’t related to the alignment. Our issues are mostly because we need more talent among the alignees that execute our offense. Can there be a successful offense if you cannot block, throw, and catch successfully. No! How successful would the air raid be with a passer with a 44% completion rate and a leading receiver with 440 receiving yards?

For years and years, people swore up and down that all we had to do was switch from the prostyle to the spread, and all our offensive ills would be cured. We’ve been running the spread for years now and the offense still stinks, because we still have to improve the talent level on the offensive side of the ball.

The problem with the air raid, is that if your offense can’t operate effectively enough, you will wear out your defense. That is why we will be playing a style of offense that will protect our defense.

We will have a good offense in ‘25, because the ‘24 class and previous classes will fix the remaining talent issues. Personnel dictate the effectiveness of the offense, not the other way around. Some of our WRs aren’t getting separation from OSU DBs no matter what offense we run.

 

[RUAir-Raid]

Our issues aren’t related to the alignment. Our issues are mostly because we need more talent among the alignees that execute our offense. Can there be a successful offense if you cannot block, throw, and catch successfully. No! How successful would the air raid be with a passer with a 44% completion rate and a leading receiver with 440 receiving yards?

For years and years, people swore up and down that all we had to do was switch from the prostyle to the spread, and all our offensive ills would be cured. We’ve been running the spread for years now and the offense still stinks, because we still have to improve the talent level on the offensive side of the ball.

The problem with the air raid, is that if your offense can’t operate effectively enough, you will wear out your defense. That is why we will be playing a style of offense that will protect our defense.

We will have a good offense in ‘25, because the ‘24 class and previous classes will fix the remaining talent issues. Personnel dictate the effectiveness of the offense, not the other way around. Some of our WRs aren’t getting separation from OSU DBs no matter what offense we run.

Lmao then just run the triple option or slow mesh. You hold the ball for longer drives and don’t wear your defense down. Doesn’t have to be air raid (even though I get thread was focused on that specific style of offense).

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Our issues aren’t related to the alignment. Our issues are mostly because we need more talent among the alignees that execute our offense. Can there be a successful offense if you cannot block, throw, and catch successfully. No! How successful would the air raid be with a passer with a 44% completion rate and a leading receiver with 440 receiving yards?

For years and years, people swore up and down that all we had to do was switch from the prostyle to the spread, and all our offensive ills would be cured. We’ve been running the spread for years now and the offense still stinks, because we still have to improve the talent level on the offensive side of the ball.

The problem with the air raid, is that if your offense can’t operate effectively enough, you will wear out your defense. That is why we will be playing a style of offense that will protect our defense.

We will have a good offense in ‘25, because the ‘24 class and previous classes will fix the remaining talent issues. Personnel dictate the effectiveness of the offense, not the other way around. Some of our WRs aren’t getting separation from OSU DBs no matter what offense we run.

We haven't been running anything remotely that looks like a spread. We haven't even had a qb with enough passing ability to run one.

Bring an OC/HC with actual history of running one too.

edit: Also should add even if it failed with an actual spread coach with some history of it, I would still go back to it because I see many lower status teams outperforming their status on the landscape using it.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

We haven't been running anything remotely that looks like a spread. We haven't even had a qb with enough passing ability to run one.

Bring an OC/HC with actual history of running one too.

edit: Also should add even if it failed with an actual spread coach with some history of it, I would still go back to it because I see many lower status teams outperforming their status on the landscape using it.

Our qb lined up in shotgun and ran RPO plays at times. How is that not a spread offense. It certainly isn’t prostyle. We didn’t use a fullback at all and used a tight end as the H Back.

Any successful offense is going to need players who are good enough to execute. The air raid isn’t going to all of a sudden going to make Gavin into a 65% completion rate passer when he completed 44% of his passes last year. This is just another flavor of the month that will supposedly cure our offensive ills.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Our qb lined up in shotgun and ran RPO plays at times. How is that not a spread offense. It certainly isn’t prostyle. We didn’t use a fullback at all and used a tight end as the H Back.

Any successful offense is going to need players who are good enough to execute. The air raid isn’t going to all of a sudden going to make Gavin into a 65% completion rate passer when he completed 44% of his passes last year. This is just another flavor of the month that will supposedly cure our offensive ills.

Hardly flavor of the month as I've been advocating for it for a decade plus. I don't know what to call what we've been running but certainly not that. BTW Heupel uses TEs at times too iirc in his version. Like I said it's not the use of this that or anything. It's having an open offense, use of tempo and keeping it simple to pick up.

The point isn't our personnel magically becomes better although some players might be more effective. I'm not sure if GW can be an effective enough passer to run one but that's not the point. We haven't had an effective enough passer to run anything for quite some time.

The point is get the right coaches and they will attract and find personnel to run one as you see with Longo at Wisconsin. They've had trouble with effective qbs at Wisconsin. Most recently Mertz was a TO machine (although he was just named starter at UF). Longo comes on board and boom 4-5 potentially contributing qbs jump on board because of his history with Sam Howell and then turning Drake Maye into a heisman candidate and his work with other qbs in his career. They also kept their RB stable on board because of his history with RBs rushing for 1000 yds.

Do you think Leach was getting a bunch of 5 stars at qb year after year. KK at TT too. Same for Briles. They found and identified qbs that fit their system or qbs that had potential gravitated to them.

Whatever is on the current roster doesn't matter to me as far as running some version of an Air Raid. If they're deemed good enough by a coach to run the system that's fine but if not it's much easier to turn a roster and find contributing players in this age of transfer portal.

 

[kupuna133]

Had the privilege of meeting and talking with Hal Mumme multiple times. He was the creator of the air raid offense. Common misconception is that it is a heavy pass offense. If it is run correctly he said it would be 50-50/60-40 run pass depending on what was working. It’s a simple mostly pre snap read oriented offense. That can be installed quickly.

 

[NickRU714]

Our issues aren’t related to the alignment. Our issues are mostly because we need more talent among the alignees that execute our offense. Can there be a successful offense if you cannot block, throw, and catch successfully. No! How successful would the air raid be with a passer with a 44% completion rate and a leading receiver with 440 receiving yards?

For years and years, people swore up and down that all we had to do was switch from the prostyle to the spread, and all our offensive ills would be cured. We’ve been running the spread for years now and the offense still stinks, because we still have to improve the talent level on the offensive side of the ball.

The problem with the air raid, is that if your offense can’t operate effectively enough, you will wear out your defense. That is why we will be playing a style of offense that will protect our defense.

We will have a good offense in ‘25, because the ‘24 class and previous classes will fix the remaining talent issues. Personnel dictate the effectiveness of the offense, not the other way around. Some of our WRs aren’t getting separation from OSU DBs no matter what offense we run.

You completely miss the point.
Any bad offense tires out the defense.

It's about "building a foundation".
Having a goal to build towards.
Even if you had the talent (see Wisconsin) - what do you WANT to do?
You need a north star to build and recruit towards.
Wisconsin, even with all their recruiting advantages, is changing their north star.

It takes time to change (especially when you have lesser talent like we do).

Are you saying HC Schiano will change to a scoring first offense in a couple years?
He's not a run first, slow, ball control offense guy at heart?

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Hardly flavor of the month as I've been advocating for it for a decade plus. I don't know what to call what we've been running but certainly not that. BTW Heupel uses TEs at times too iirc in his version. Like I said it's not the use of this that or anything. It's having an open offense, use of tempo and keeping it simple to pick up.

The point isn't our personnel magically becomes better although some players might be more effective. I'm not sure if GW can be an effective enough passer to run one but that's not the point. We haven't had an effective enough passer to run anything for quite some time.

The point is get the right coaches and they will attract and find personnel to run one as you see with Longo at Wisconsin. They've had trouble with effective qbs at Wisconsin. Most recently Mertz was a TO machine (although he was just named starter at UF). Longo comes on board and boom 4-5 potentially contributing qbs jump on board because of his history with Sam Howell and then turning Drake Maye into a heisman candidate and his work with other qbs in his career. They also kept their RB stable on board because of his history with RBs rushing for 1000 yds.

Do you think Leach was getting a bunch of 5 stars at qb year after year. KK at TT too. Same for Briles. They found and identified qbs that fit their system or qbs that had potential gravitated to them.

Whatever is on the current roster doesn't matter to me as far as running some version of an Air Raid. If they're deemed good enough by a coach to run the system that's fine but if not it's much easier to turn a roster and find contributing players in this age of transfer portal.

Leach was a Guru of the Air Raid and knew how to identify talent. For us to succeed with Air Raid, when the opportunity comes, we would need to pony up and bring in Lincoln Riley or similar To run Air Raid, not Lincoln Riley’s grad assistant twice removed, which is what we would normally end up with. As it stands, we should have a decent offense by ‘25, as we will finally have the talent to run it.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

You completely miss the point.
Any bad offense tires out the defense.

It's about "building a foundation".
Having a goal to build towards.
Even if you had the talent (see Wisconsin) - what do you WANT to do?
You need a north star to build and recruit towards.
Wisconsin, even with all their recruiting advantages, is changing their north star.

It takes time to change (especially when you have lesser talent like we do).

Are you saying HC Schiano will change to a scoring first offense in a couple years?
He's not a run first, slow, ball control offense guy at heart?

You missed the point. Any offense without adequate talent is going to be bad. Installing the air raid, isn’t going to magically help us attract WRs that are going to be able to beat Ohio State DBs for 50/50 balls.

Even if we installed the Air Raid tomorrow, there would be an acclimation period and learning curve. Let alone that it is very dependent on a very accurate quarterback, the likes of which we’ve never been able to recruit to Rutgers.

In spite of the challenges, I’m saying I’m open to the idea, but now is not the right time.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

In spite of the challenges, I’m saying I’m open to the idea, but now is not the right time.

KC is the OC. It isn’t happening now or an time soon. We’ll just have to see how it goes.

I take all these kind of discussions as discussions of overall philosophy about what avenue has the highest potential and greater probability of succeeding. It doesn’t mean it will be applied any time soon, it’s just messageboard discussion.

 

[RUAir-Raid]

KC is the OC. It isn’t happening now or an time soon. We’ll just have to see how it goes.

I take all these kind of discussions as discussions of overall philosophy about what avenue has the highest potential and greater probability of succeeding. It doesn’t mean it will be applied any time soon, it’s just messageboard discussion.

I mean a lot of these offenses are designed to do more with less which is RU in a nut shell. We’ll never get the best players to come, so why not run one of them and just recruit kids that fit the system.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

KC is the OC. It isn’t happening now or an time soon. We’ll just have to see how it goes.

I take all these kind of discussions as discussions of overall philosophy about what avenue has the highest potential and greater probability of succeeding. It doesn’t mean it will be applied any time soon, it’s just messageboard discussion.

Agreed. I’m speaking about it, as a possibility in the distant future.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Lmao then just run the triple option or slow mesh. You hold the ball for longer drives and don’t wear your defense down. Doesn’t have to be air raid (even though I get thread was focused on that specific style of offense).

Monken is changing his triple option offense this year at Army. The new rules that affect cut blocking has forced him to adapt. He said they will still run a lot but will operate out of the shotgun and it might look closer to Jamey Chadwell's spread option that he ran at Coastal Carolina and I'm guessing will run at Liberty now. He threw it quite a bit with Grayson McCall, I wouldn't expect Army to do that.

 

[brgRC90]

There is no good reason to Mimic Wisconsin's offense. They're not the most successful team in the Big Ten and the talent we can get, particularly on O-line, is not comparable. We can probably recruit speed a lot more easily than we can recruit top notch 350 lbs linemen. We can't even seem to recruit smaller, great O-line players. Rutgers has to move on from the rushing mindset. It has not served us well at all.

 

[kupuna133]

There is no good reason to Mimic Wisconsin's offense. They're not the most successful team in the Big Ten and the talent we can get, particularly on O-line, is not comparable. We can probably recruit speed a lot more easily than we can recruit top notch 350 lbs linemen. We can't even seem to recruit smaller, great O-line players. Rutgers has to move on from the rushing mindset. It has not served us well at all.

Umm Wisconsin is not even mimicing Wisconsin Offense going forward. They brought in Longo to run an offense based off of the "AIR RAID" principles.

 

[Shelby65]

Our issues aren’t related to the alignment. Our issues are mostly because we need more talent among the alignees that execute our offense. Can there be a successful offense if you cannot block, throw, and catch successfully. No! How successful would the air raid be with a passer with a 44% completion rate and a leading receiver with 440 receiving yards?

For years and years, people swore up and down that all we had to do was switch from the prostyle to the spread, and all our offensive ills would be cured. We’ve been running the spread for years now and the offense still stinks, because we still have to improve the talent level on the offensive side of the ball.

The problem with the air raid, is that if your offense can’t operate effectively enough, you will wear out your defense. That is why we will be playing a style of offense that will protect our defense.

We will have a good offense in ‘25, because the ‘24 class and previous classes will fix the remaining talent issues. Personnel dictate the effectiveness of the offense, not the other way around. Some of our WRs aren’t getting separation from OSU DBs no matter what offense we run.

How do dives on third and 7 and constant three and outs protect our defense ?

 

[brgRC90]

Umm Wisconsin is not even mimicing Wisconsin Offense going forward. They brought in Longo to run an offense based off of the "AIR RAID" principles.

Although who knows how well they will do with it. But the Wisconsin of recent memory was successful but not so successful that we should emulate them. They tended to fall short because of that one-dimensional rushing offense. I can't imagine for the life of me why so many people around our program are in love with rushing, and it's not even dynamic, triple-option rushing or some kind of highly deceptive run game that gives you 35 or 65 yard plays all game long. It's not working. It's not going to work.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

Good. Maybe we’ll be able to recruit the running backs that otherwise would have gone to Wisconsin.

Who would block for them?

 

[RUAir-Raid]

Monken is changing his triple option offense this year at Army. The new rules that affect cut blocking has forced him to adapt. He said they will still run a lot but will operate out of the shotgun and it might look closer to Jamey Chadwell's spread option that he ran at Coastal Carolina and I'm guessing will run at Liberty now. He threw it quite a bit with Grayson McCall, I wouldn't expect Army to do that.

If Schiano ever does get fired, that Chadwell would be an interesting candidate. I like his offense and what he did at Coastal.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

If Schiano ever does get fired, that Chadwell would be an interesting candidate. I like his offense and what he did at Coastal.

IIRC I read his wife likes it below the Mason Dixon line so if he leaves good chance it will be something in the south.

edit: Alex Golesh at USF and Longo are the up and coming names I’m curious to see how they do.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

How do dives on third and 7 and constant three and outs protect our defense ?

The dives on 3rd and 7 was an attempt to catch the defense napping, as it would be expecting a pass in that situation. I don’t recall that happening often. Constant three and outs were due to a lack of talent, which is being addressed.

 

[Shelby65]

The dives on 3rd and 7 was an attempt to catch the defense napping, as it would be expecting a pass in that situation. I don’t recall that happening often. Constant three and outs were due to a lack of talent, which is being addressed.

thanks Al....if you haven't noticed, the opposing defense naps all game against us and it doesn't matter.

I thought 'lack of talent' would be addressed already by the competent HC, but I guess not. It's fantastic that he's focusing on that going forward. 8-0 to start the season will be great, especially since we don't have a fieldhouse.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

We haven't been running anything remotely that looks like a spread. We haven't even had a qb with enough passing ability to run one.

Bring an OC/HC with actual history of running one too.

edit: Also should add even if it failed with an actual spread coach with some history of it, I would still go back to it because I see many lower status teams outperforming their status on the landscape using it.

In recent years, RU's offensive coaches have been more attracted to the idea of what spread offenses are supposed to do and less concerned with the fundamentals. Lining up in the Shotgun, putting 4 WRs on the field, not huddling, staring at the sideline until the play clock runs out, and handing the ball off on runs up the middle with no blocking and no threat of a QB run is not the spread offense that other teams are running. Not to mention the wildly inaccurate passing. That's why the offense has been inept. If RU is going to commit to this kind of offense, you need to hire an OC that knows how to actually coach it. I haven't seen that in the last several years.

 

[Shelby65]

In recent years, RU's offensive coaches have been more attracted to the idea of what spread offenses are supposed to do and less concerned with the fundamentals. Lining up in the Shotgun, putting 4 WRs on the field, not huddling, staring at the sideline until the play clock runs out, and handing the ball off on runs up the middle with no blocking and no threat of a QB run is not the spread offense that other teams are running. Not to mention the wildly inaccurate passing. That's why the offense has been inept. If RU is going to commit to this kind of offense, you need to hire an OC that knows how to actually coach it. I haven't seen that in the last several years.

I'm guessing Oklahoma State probably averaged at least 35-38 pts a game with Gleeson. Methinks he knows offense. But the HC....

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

thanks Al....if you haven't noticed, the opposing defense naps all game against us and it doesn't matter.

I thought 'lack of talent' would be addressed already by the competent HC, but I guess not. It's fantastic that he's focusing on that going forward. 8-0 to start the season will be great, especially since we don't have a fieldhouse.

Or talent.

 

[Shelby65]

Or talent.

and that's HC failure by now, correct ? Any professor or student could coach this team for free and never win a conference game. Last year Schiano won 1. This year also probably 1. Think about that.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

I'm guessing Oklahoma State probably averaged at least 35-38 pts a game with Gleeson. Methinks he knows offense. But the HC....

The difference between Gundy and Schiano. Oklahoma State has had 30 plus point a game offenses under multiple OCs. Then again, they block people.

 

[Shelby65]

The difference between Gundy and Schiano. Oklahoma State has had 30 plus point a game offenses under multiple OCs. Then again, they block people.

right, so whose fault is that ? seems like you're pointing the finger at Schiano. i agree.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

thanks Al....if you haven't noticed, the opposing defense naps all game against us and it doesn't matter.

I thought 'lack of talent' would be addressed already by the competent HC, but I guess not. It's fantastic that he's focusing on that going forward. 8-0 to start the season will be great, especially since we don't have a fieldhouse.

The talent has been addressed on the defensive side of the ball, but the offensive side of the ball needs more talent.

 

[brgRC90]

thanks Al....if you haven't noticed, the opposing defense naps all game against us and it doesn't matter.

I thought 'lack of talent' would be addressed already by the competent HC, but I guess not. It's fantastic that he's focusing on that going forward. 8-0 to start the season will be great, especially since we don't have a fieldhouse.

The offense has such a lack of talent allegedly that they even struggled to score against Temple and a really bad Boston College. And everyone else not named Wagner. Al is a guy, a genius according to himself, who believes only talent matters in football.

 

[Shelby65]

The offense has such a lack of talent allegedly that they even struggled to score against Temple and a really bad Boston College. And everyone else not named Wagner. Al is a guy, a genius according to himself, who believes only talent matters in football.

Not entirely true. He also believes in fieldhouses. Btw his prediction record is 0-187 on upset alerts.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

Talent has to have some sort of baseline but system can help talent look better or be more effective.

These are just some examples.

Gardner Minshew before Leach was about 57% and 2000 yards at ECU. Goes to WSU and 70% and 4800yds.

Will Rogers a 3 star qb 29th ranked player in MS by year 2 a 4000yd+ passer and 70%

Nic Shimonek transfer from Iowa to TT under KK. Pro style guy who didn't do much there but when he got his shot at TT 67% and 4000yds.

Hendon Hooker from about 60-65% 1500yd at VT to around 70% 3000yds at Tenn.

Conversely, Brennan Armstrong developed into a leading qb in the country under Robert Anae a former Leach OL coach. He developed into a 4500yd 65% passer. Anae leaves to Syracuse last year and suddenly he drops to about 2000yds and 55%. He's transfered from UVA to NC State to try and rekindle that spark with Anae who is the OC there this year.

There's a baseline of talent the coach needs to identify but in the right system it can magnify whatever that baseline talent might be.

 

[jsol_05]

Lmao then just run the triple option or slow mesh. You hold the ball for longer drives and don’t wear your defense down. Doesn’t have to be air raid (even though I get thread was focused on that specific style of offense).

Triple option in the Big 10, won’t work.

 

[Shelby65]

Talent has to have some sort of baseline but system can help talent look better or be more effective.

These are just some examples.

Gardner Minshew before Leach was about 57% and 2000 yards at ECU. Goes to WSU and 70% and 4800yds.

Will Rogers a 3 star qb 29th ranked player in MS by year 2 a 4000yd+ passer and 70%

Nic Shimonek transfer from Iowa to TT under KK. Pro style guy who didn't do much there but when he got his shot at TT 67% and 4000yds.

Hendon Hooker from about 60-65% 1500yd at VT to around 70% 3000yds at Tenn.

Conversely, Brennan Armstrong developed into a leading qb in the country under Robert Anae a former Leach OL coach. He developed into a 4500yd 65% passer. Anae leaves to Syracuse last year and suddenly he drops to about 2000yds and 55%. He's transfered from UVA to NC State to try and rekindle that spark with Anae who is the OC there this year.

There's a baseline of talent the coach needs to identify but in the right system it can make magnify whatever that baseline talent might be.

Agree, and our head coach is a damn heavy anchor.

 

[RUAir-Raid]

Triple option in the Big 10, won’t work.

Why not? How do you know that?