Air-Raid Offense coming to Wisconsin

GoodOl'Rutgers

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@rutgersguy1 posted this but it probably deserves its own thread.

A certain segment of fans like to point to Wisconsin as this model of "run first, control the clock, slow" offense that we can (and should) mimic.
That's "how you win in the Big Ten. Low scoring and let the defense win the game."

Well, seems even vaunted Wisconsin is looking to update their offense and lean more into passing and scoring points.

So does everyone still think we should model the team around Wisconsin and their potentially high scoring offense?


I think the best argument for air raid in Wisconsin is their new HC is a damn good DC, Luke Fickell. I don't think he'd be trying teh Air Raid if he thought Big Ten defenses can handle it. That sort of spread offense is something GS1.0 also had trouble with (Rich Rod~ WVU teams).

We'll see if it works... but Fickell wanting it is a good sign for teh possibilities.
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers

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The difference between Gundy and Schiano. Oklahoma State has had 30 plus point a game offenses under multiple OCs. Then again, they block people.
That's because it is the head coach's offense. We tried an OK State OC here. He failed badly. Why would Schiano have chosen him if he didn't want that open offense? SG just failed at bringing it here. Maybe Schiano will try again sometime. We'll see if KC can get som points on the board first.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

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In recent years, RU's offensive coaches have been more attracted to the idea of what spread offenses are supposed to do and less concerned with the fundamentals. Lining up in the Shotgun, putting 4 WRs on the field, not huddling, staring at the sideline until the play clock runs out, and handing the ball off on runs up the middle with no blocking and no threat of a QB run is not the spread offense that other teams are running. Not to mention the wildly inaccurate passing. That's why the offense has been inept. If RU is going to commit to this kind of offense, you need to hire an OC that knows how to actually coach it. I haven't seen that in the last several years.
YES.. that's right. You need an OC/QB coach to be able to TEACH.. to DEVELOP QBs to run.. no, make that "to COMMAND".. the offense. For this stuff to work the QB has to be able to look at teh defensive alignment, after having learned all their tendencies in the film room.. and KNOW what to do. Looking to the sidelines won't help him. If he thinks one thing and on snap sees something else.. he'll throw it away and LEARN.. because it was his thoughts that he SAW were wrong.

That is one great thing I heard from Ciarocca and Schiano in the Spring and preseason.. they want the QBs to THINK for themselves... to LEAD... to be FIELD GENERALS.
 

RUGuitarMan1

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Seems everyone loves labels these days. I would anticipate that Wisconsin’s offense will somewhat mimic what Fickell ran at Cincy, which was a spread with an emphasis on a physical run game to complement the passing game. I don’t think they will be throwing the ball 50+ a game. In a conf like the B1G or SEC, the best offenses have balance unless you have NFL talent at QB, WR,OL. RU doesn’t have that and Wisky isn’t at that level as of now.
 
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I think the best argument for air raid in Wisconsin is their new HC is a damn good DC, Luke Fickell. I don't think he'd be trying teh Air Raid if he thought Big Ten defenses can handle it. That sort of spread offense is something GS1.0 also had trouble with (Rich Rod~ WVU teams).

We'll see if it works... but Fickell wanting it is a good sign for teh possibilities.
That was something I mentioned whe he hired Longo. I’ve always thought it’s the best potential avenue but seeing Fickell hire him was a surprise. Blue collar defensive coach thinks this is the best path means something. Whether it works or not we’ll see but it’s worked in the SEC so I see no reason it can’t work in the B10. It’s just a matter of if you got the right coach to do it.

Also will be interesting to see what kind of influence Fickell has on how Longo’s offense manifests itself.

Purdue’s new HC Rex Walters was a top DC at Illinois last year and his first instinct also was to hire Harrell as OC, another Leach tree coach. He’s a little more like Leach than Longo in terms of running the ball. It will be interesting to see how they do in offense. They got Hudson Card as QB, a transfer from Texas. Supposedly he’s looked really good at camp but we’ll see.
 
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Seems everyone loves labels these days. I would anticipate that Wisconsin’s offense will somewhat mimic what Fickell ran at Cincy, which was a spread with an emphasis on a physical run game to complement the passing game. I don’t think they will be throwing the ball 50+ a game. In a conf like the B1G or SEC, the best offenses have balance unless you have NFL talent at QB, WR,OL. RU doesn’t have that and Wisky isn’t at that level as of now.
Like I said it’s a misconception that every spread or “Air Raid” throws the ball all the time. I’ve given examples above with regards to Longo and others.

Last year Ben Bryant threw on average a little over 30 times a game at Cincy

Drake Maye averaged about 37 pass attempts per game last year at UNC.

Sam Howell the year before about 27 pass attempts per game at UNC.

UNC was ranked 67 last year in rushing so nothing great but the 2 years before that they were ranked 18 and 11. So like I said Longo is plenty willing to run the ball in addition to throw it.
 
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NickRU714

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That's because it is the head coach's offense. We tried an OK State OC here. He failed badly. Why would Schiano have chosen him if he didn't want that open offense? SG just failed at bringing it here. Maybe Schiano will try again sometime. We'll see if KC can get som points on the board first.

A lot of coaches talk about an open scoring offense then back off quick (see HC Ash hiring OC Kill).

We’ve gone backwards in pass attempts per game.
2020: 35 (#33)
2021: 30 (#69)
2022: 27 (#103)
Was that Gleeson or Schiano? Don't know.

I'm not too optimistic we are suddenly going to start throwing the ball more and trying to score points.
This seems more "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

This year under OC KC will tell alot about what type of offense HC Schiano actually wants (for better or worse).
 
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A lot of coaches talk about an open scoring offense then back off quick (see HC Ash hiring OC Kill).
It’s lip service until you see it on the field, especially coming from defensive coaches.

They say stretch the field vertically and horizontally etc etc but they don’t all stick to that. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it would probably take a defensive coach who “grew up” in that system to stick with it if it’s not working at first.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

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It’s lip service until you see it on the field, especially coming from defensive coaches.

They say stretch the field vertically and horizontally etc etc but they don’t all stick to that. Like I mentioned in the other thread, it would probably take a defensive coach who “grew up” in that system to stick with it if it’s not working at first.
While I am a big fan of stretching teh field.. forcing the D to defend it all.. you have to have some big-play ability to do it. Throwing long... even if covered.. and over-throwing to stretch the field means throwing away a down. And when you have trouble getting 10 yards on 3 plays.. trying to do it in 2 downs on a regular basis.. to stretch the field.. well, you can see the problem.

The solution is to only call plays designed to get 5 yards or more... and do not risk throwing the ball for a 2-yard gain.
 
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Talk about biggest adjustment for some of the OL is tempo but mindset has to be we might be tired but defense is going to be more tired. Also talk about questions when no fullback in short yardage and what happens when it doesn’t work and how the commitment is there to stick with it despite any growing pains.

From the article:

During a recent scrimmage in Camp Randall Stadium, Wisconsin quarterback Tanner Mordecai fired a bullet to Braelon Allen running a circle route out of the backfield. Allen hauled it in and kept possession through a hard shot from a safety in the end zone for a touchdown.

That one play said a lot about how different Badgers football is going to be in 2023.

The play originated without a huddle and from the shotgun formation. The offensive linemen were pass protecting out of the wide splits that come with an Air Raid offense. The play was in the red zone, but there was no fullback to be found. Mordecai wore an SMU uniform for his previous two seasons, and an Oklahoma uniform the three before that. The 245-pound Allen has had 437 touches from scrimmage in two seasons of college ball without recording a touchdown reception.

A staffer described the program’s 30-year identity, from Barry Alvarez to Bret Bielema to Gary Andersen to Paul Chryst, as “the little engine that could.” The Badgers now want to be the full-grown engine that will

 
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sct1111

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Wisconsins OLine was always built more for the run. Air raid is high risk high reward. We honestly probably match up better with a throw first Wisconsin with our dline and secondary then we do vs a run first Wisconsin.
 
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Wisconsins OLine was always built more for the run. Air raid is high risk high reward. We honestly probably match up better with a throw first Wisconsin with our dline and secondary then we do vs a run first Wisconsin.
I actually think the opposite. An offense that uses tempo, spreads you out and is competent in it is more dangerous to us than a run first offense imo. We play OSU and we lose badly but we play a run first pro style offense like Michigan and we’ve been competitive with them for a game or a half.

It depends on just how quickly Wisconsin’s players pick it up.
 
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sct1111

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I actually think the opposite. An offense that uses tempo, spreads you out and is competent in it is more dangerous to us than a run first offense imo. We play OSU and we lose badly but we play a run first pro style offense like Michigan and we’ve been competitive with them for a game or a half.

It depends on just how quickly Wisconsin’s players pick it up.
Good point. My thoughts are that their OLine in particular have been recruited to be run first blockers. We've never been even close to beating Wisconsin because they've dominated us at the line of scrimmage predominantly with running the ball.

Having their QB drop back more gives our speed rushers more of a chance especially players like Kenny Fletcher, Mo Toure and Aaron Lewis (led the Big Ten in QB hurries). And our secondary (particularly cbs) are a strength.
 
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Good point. My thoughts are that their OLine in particular have been recruited to be run first blockers. We've never been even close to beating Wisconsin because they've dominated us at the line of scrimmage predominantly with running the ball.

Having their QB drop back more gives our speed rushers more of a chance especially players like Kenny Fletcher, Mo Toure and Aaron Lewis (led the Big Ten in QB hurries). And our secondary (particularly cbs) are a strength.
Sure on its face, they drop back more you think okay more opportunities for a sack or pressures.

Two things with that. One like I’ve said in these threads, not all Air Raids are throwing the ball often. Many of them run the ball and run it well. Longo has had 1000yd rushers multiple times in his career. He had 2 1000yd rushers in one of his years at UNC. Two, while they may throw it more often they will also be rid of it quickly so regardless of your rush the ball will be out faster.
 
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Knight Shift

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kupuna133

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Al's upset with 25-31 points per game, and would rather watch a team average less than 15 points per game and go 4-8 or 3-9?
Crazy. The article was more about the downturn of the West Virginia economy and being in a conference where the closest competitor is 800 miles away versus the air raid offense.
 
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Knight Shift

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Crazy. The article was more about the downturn of the West Virginia economy and being in a conference where the closest competitor is 800 miles away versus the air raid offense.
I found this article, linked below. Brown was also rumored to have been in trouble with local authorities for illegally relocating ground hogs. 🥳

But it seems he cycled through coordinators. As my co-AD and fellow air raid afficionado @rutgersguy1 knows, Graham Harrell is a heck of an OC. He got things going last year. Apparently, however, with the loss of Harrell, and no decent receivers on the roster, Brown was forced to abandon the air raid offense.

 
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The Neal Brown experience at WV shows that simply installing the Air Raid offense, isn’t the panacea people are claiming. At the end of the day, talent wins games. WV was 5-7 last year, one more win than we had.

Dana Holgorsen was the coach before him and was actually off the Leach tree and did a solid job there. This is with WVU out on an island in the B12 too.

Brown just played for Leach one year at UK and coached at TT after he left. Nonetheless he was quite successful at Troy even if not at WVU. Leach’s TT days both players and coaches seem to have the best outcomes offensively.

Nothing is a panacea and certainly not whatever the hell we’ve been doing most of the past 10-15 years.

I say it often, there is no guarantee but the point is to look at which avenue offers the most potential and can work realistically.
 
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Dana Holgorsen was the coach before him and was actually off the Leach tree and did a solid job there. This is with WVU out on an island in the B12 too.

Brown just played for Leach one year at UK and coached at TT after he left. Nonetheless he was quite successful at Troy even if not at WVU. Leach’s TT days both players and coaches seem to have the best outcomes offensively.

Nothing is a panacea and certainly not whatever the hell we’ve been doing most of the past 10-15 years.

I say it often, there is no guarantee but the point is to look at which avenue offers the most potential and can work realistically.
If we can get a Lincoln Riley type, absolutely. But it wouldn’t work for us with a Neal Brown type because he’d never recruit enough talent.
 

Knight Shift

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If we can get a Lincoln Riley type, absolutely. But it wouldn’t work for us with a Neal Brown type because he’d never recruit enough talent.
Worked well enough for Mike Leach, and he never got top shelf talent. He was special in so many ways. He really new how to do a lot with a little. May he RIP.
 

RU Cheese

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Nah I'm sure Al is right. It's not like the entire NFL and almost all of NCAA has moved away from the offense we're trying to install...
 
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If we can get a Lincoln Riley type, absolutely. But it wouldn’t work for us with a Neal Brown type because he’d never recruit enough talent.
Lincoln Riley wasn’t always “Lincoln Riley” he was the OC at ECU doing some good things before he became OC at OU and then HC at OU and USC.

We have to identify coaches somewhat nascent in their trajectories but have done some work that is justifiable for the jump to OC or HC. Or say someone who hasn’t put it all together yet like Heupel who was fired from OU went to Utah State and the Mizzou as OC and the HC at UCF. Dykes would be another name that’s similar.

Longo and Golesh are names I’m keeping a watch on to see how they do but I still like KK. I thought he was interesting when TT fired him and now still after his NFL stint. The man knows qbs but he doesn’t know defense. If you somehow figure out a way to get him a strong DC to complement his offense I think he’d be a solid choice for someone. He’s an analyst at USC this year. He supposedly didn’t want to coach in college again but he’s back on he sidelines.
 

Colbert17!

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Triple option in the Big 10, won’t work.
Didn't Ohio State do it like 55 years ago with guys like Rex Kern? I looked up his stats and he had over 1500 rushing yards and averaged nearly five yards a carry in his three years.
Theyre using some type of option here.



Some great old names: Ron Johnson, John Brockington, Jim Otis.

Johnson was a first round draft choice of the Browns but spent many years as a Giant.
 
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LotusAggressor_rivals

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The Neal Brown experience at WV shows that simply installing the Air Raid offense, isn’t the panacea people are claiming. At the end of the day, talent wins games. WV was 5-7 last year, one more win than we had.

No offensive system is a panecea. The problem at RU has been that the coaches try to install these offenses without understanding how they work or why they're effective.
 
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No offensive system is a panecea. The problem at RU has been that the coaches try to install these offenses without understanding how they work or why they're effective.
No, the biggest problem was the coaches couldn’t recruit the talent needed to make the system work effectively. It wasn’t the alignment, it was the alignees.

That was especially the case with Terry Shea, who was a successful OC at Stanford, and Chris Ash, who was a successful DC at Ohio State.

X’s and O’s, they were solid. Their recruiting left much to be desired.

That’s why I’m skeptical of those who are now claiming, “Replace Schiano with Air Raid Coach X, and Rutgers will win”.

It’s not so easy to recruit talent to Rutgers.
 
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NickRU714

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No, the biggest problem was the coaches couldn’t recruit the talent needed to make the system work effectively. It wasn’t the alignment, it was the alignees.

That was especially the case with Terry Shea, who was a successful OC at Stanford, and Chris Ash, who was a successful DC at Ohio State.

X’s and O’s, they were solid. Their recruiting left much to be desired.

That’s why I’m skeptical of those who are now claiming, “Replace Schiano with Air Raid Coach X, and Rutgers will win”.

It’s not so easy to recruit talent to Rutgers.

HC Ash hired OC Kill in year 2.
He spent 1 year attempting an up tempo offense.

How does any coach recruit talent for year 1 of a offensive philosophy change?

You are the ONLY one who thinks it's some 1 year system change and expect results immediately.

Any change will take years at Rutgers. Stop creating false narratives that nobody is saying.
 
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HC Ash hired OC Kill in year 2.
He spent 1 year attempting an up tempo offense.

How does any coach recruit talent for year 1 of a offensive philosophy change?

You are the ONLY one who thinks it's some 1 year system change and expect results immediately.

Any change will take years at Rutgers. Stop creating false narratives that nobody is saying.
Where did I say one year system change? We could give ash and Terry Shea 20 years, and they still wouldn’t have succeeded. Schiano has the gravitas to succeed.
 
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It's paywall but here are some of the Air Raid branches. Listing of 30 intriguing coordinators from Bruce Feldman. Have mentioned all these names here at one time or another over the years. Notice not all throw it all the time. Everyone has their own spin. I've mentioned Kappe (Houston Baptist) and Reed (University of West Florida) here before too. Don't tell me we can't get functional qbs because they can be found in all kinds of places.

1. Garrett Riley, Clemson OC

Lincoln Riley’s 33-year-old brother had a fantastic season at TCU in 2022, helping the Horned Frogs vault from No. 65 in scoring to No. 9 en route to the national title game. Quarterback Max Duggan, who began the season as the backup, finished as the runner-up for the Heisman Trophy. Riley, an Air Raid disciple, has his own wrinkles, including in the run game, some stemming from his time with a prolific App State attack in 2019.

Dabo Swinney and Clemson fans are hoping he will pump much-needed life into what had become a stale Tigers offense. Riley should do wonders for quarterback Cade Klubnik and running back Will Shipley.

3. Phil Longo, Wisconsin OC

The Air Raid has come to Madison. The 55-year-old Jersey guy helped developed Sam Howell and Drake Maye in Chapel Hill and had some prolific offenses there and just about everywhere he’s coached. The Badgers were No. 76 in scoring and No. 63 in yards per play last year after ranking No. 81 in yards per play in 2021. They desperately needed a spark and a shake-up. But don’t think just because Longo comes from the Air Raid tree that the Badgers won’t still have a potent run game.

In 2021, Longo’s offense was second in the ACC in yards per carry, and it led the conference in 2020. It also ranked in the top 10 nationally in each of those years while finishing in the top two in the ACC in rushing yards per game. With SMU transfer quarterback Tanner Mordecai stepping in and running back Braelon Allen in the best shape of his life, Wisconsin will be a handful in the Big Ten.

9. Zach Kittley, Texas Tech OC

The Red Raiders improved from No. 50 in scoring to No. 27 last year and should take another step forward as Kliff Kingsbury’s old student intern and former GA turns Tyler Shough loose on the Big 12. The core of Kittley’s system is Air Raid stuff, but he has a lot of cool wrinkles to what he does with different motions, getting into 12 personnel and having a true vertical passing game. Kittley helped WKU improve from No. 114 in scoring to No. 2 in 2021 as his protege Bailey Zappe transferred up from FCS Houston Baptist to the Hilltoppers.

24. Ben Arbuckle, Washington State OC

He is only 27 but has generated a lot of buzz inside the coaching world the past couple of seasons. Arbuckle got his start as an unpaid volunteer assistant at Houston Baptist and moonlighted as a driver for Uber Eats. In 2021, as Kittley’s wingman at Western Kentucky in an offensive quality control role, he helped an attack that led the nation in passing (433.7 yards per game) and finished second in total offense and scoring. Last year, with Kittley at Texas Tech, Arbuckle’s offense — with a new QB in Austin Reed — finished seventh in total offense and 15th in scoring and tied Georgia for the most explosive plays of 20 yards or more with 98. Reed led the nation in passing yards (4,744).

To cap it off, WKU put up 677 yards in a New Orleans Bowl romp over South Alabama, which had a top-20 defense. In Pullman, Arbuckle inherits a talented QB in Cameron Ward, who gets overshadowed by all the other terrific quarterbacks in the Pac-12. Don’t be shocked if the Cougars put up some massive numbers in 2023.
 
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Another good article on its history and references to KISS and not needing as much talent. I don't know if I'd consider Walt Bell a Leach guy though. I'd rather tap that tree and offshoots of it.




Excerpts rom the article:

Key to Air Rad: Keep it simple

That trait followed the Air Raid to the top. Speeding up tempo meant more snaps per game, which meant more stats to go around. And forcing defenses to cover the entire field opened holes talent alone couldn’t close.
“It doesn’t really matter what coverages they run. You feel like you’ve got answers,” Anderson, now head coach at Utah State, said. “You don’t always have to have better athletes than the team covering you. Numbers and leverage and execution can help you be effective.”

Even coaches like Anderson, who didn’t necessarily have a dedicated Air Raid background, were beginning to embrace it.

They found the mesh points between Mumme’s offense and the burgeoning spread-tempo, option-heavy attacks run by coaches like Rich Rodriguez. Anderson and Darin Hinshaw, his co-offensive coordinator at MTSU, spent a week observing Sonny Dykes while Dykes was on Leach’s staff, as they adapted the offense to their own thinking.
Coaches found it easier to recruit athletes to an offense that promised touches and space. Programs found fans enjoyed the basketball-on-grass spectacle Air Raid games became.
“It took us probably from ‘86 until about ‘91, and then we took it to Valdosta (State) and repeated it,” Mumme said. “In that five-year span, we had to learn to make it simple, and keep our menu of plays to a bare minimum. Particularly when we started playing fast, you couldn’t overcomplicate things.

“I think that’s one of the worst things coaches do, to this day.”

They built the Air Raid on a handful of basic route combinations — calls you’d recognize today like four verticals, Y cross and mesh — and then a few key principles.

What the option once was to high school football — a talent leveler that’s easy to teach and drill — the Air Raid has become.

If a wide receiver was single-covered, that was an opportunity. If a linebacker rolled the wrong way, that was an opportunity. Defenses were forced to spread themselves thin, to cover the entire field. Tempo made communication more difficult, and the way the offense isolated defenders made them reveal their intentions more often.

So long as the quarterback was conditioned to recognize and check to the right play pre-snap, the Air Raid could operate on those base plays and concepts indefinitely.

Just as numerous are coaches like Anderson and Longo, now with Luke Fickell at Wisconsin, who fell in love with the Air Raid enough to make it their own. Wisconsin, an old-school offensive program in an old-school offensive conference, will run the Air Raid this fall. Bell even saw Air Raid concepts in the offenses that drove Kansas City and Philadelphia to their meeting in last season’s Super Bowl.

“You can see it,” he said, “at the highest levels of football.”

That’s what evolution looks like: A whole generation of coaches grew up on the offense once viewed as too niche, spreading it from conference to conference, from one level of football to the next, eventually usurping and replacing the old order.
 

LotusAggressor_rivals

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No, the biggest problem was the coaches couldn’t recruit the talent needed to make the system work effectively. It wasn’t the alignment, it was the alignees.

That was especially the case with Terry Shea, who was a successful OC at Stanford, and Chris Ash, who was a successful DC at Ohio State.

X’s and O’s, they were solid. Their recruiting left much to be desired.

That’s why I’m skeptical of those who are now claiming, “Replace Schiano with Air Raid Coach X, and Rutgers will win”.

It’s not so easy to recruit talent to Rutgers.
The X and Os were far from solid.
 
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Nice article on Longo. He's one I'm keeping an eye on to see how he does at Wisconsin these next couple years.

A couple points I've talked about above and elsewhere. Cold weather isn't an issue and you have to be able to adapt or get left behind.

From the article:

“If you’re not evolving and you’re not growing what it is that you’re doing,” Fickell said, “then you’re going to wake up and be completely behind in all things that are going on.”

The news broke Dec. 7 that Fickell was hiring Longo to run his offense. Leach, the coach at Mississippi State, died five days later.

“He was legitimately elated that we were going to the Big Ten,” Longo said. “He was interested. He usually doesn’t get that excited, but he was fired up that we were doing it.”

Longo trusts Fickell and believes the Badgers can win big. His one real concern was something others have expressed doubt about: Can the Air Raid flourish when the temperatures drop late in the season?

Knowledge equals power, so Longo set out on a fact-finding mission. He compared five seasons worth of game-day temperatures in Madison to those in Columbus, Ohio, where Ohio State uses an offense that relies on putting the ball in the air, and found the difference was negligible.

That’s all he needed to see. His next ticket was punched and he’s had no problem fitting in at a new program.