An explanation for our rebel friends....

[Slumdawg]

<div>After reading a post below where some rebel said something to the effect of "one season a program does not make", it became apparent to me that the rebels don't understand why we feel good about our situation compared to theirs.

Rebel posters have said thousands of times on this board that state fans have leaped into a rosebowl-like euphoria because of "one good season". I will offer my explanation:

State has been in football purgatory for a decade. We climbed slightly out of the cellar in 2007 only to fall right back down in 2008. That's where we have been.

Several years back OM hires coachO who is nationally known to be a top recruiter. During his time there he shows why he has that reputation. The talent that the rebels had was pretty shocking, and many of them are now in the league. It seems he had a higher ratio of NFL talent on his teams than rebel teams in the past - again, just my perception, not saying it's fact. Unfortunately for rebel fans, the guy was as dumb as a box of rocks. He couldn't coach and despite having great talent, he failed and was shown the door.

Enter the hiring of Nutt. This made me nervous as Nutt had done well with the hogs. However, the hog fans constantly, albeit sometimes psychotically, insisted that Nutt will ruin the program because he can't recruit and always seems to have personnel issues on his teams, etc. They said just wait until coach o's recruits are gone and you will see - he will run you in the ground. Now it appears to me that he is recruiting just fine but that beside the point. Just as the hogs said, Nutt soared in his first year. At the end of 2008 OM probably could have beaten anyone. 2009 comes in and the team falls drastically short of some's expectations, despite going to a second cotton bowl. Itwas seen by some as a disappointing season - a cotton bowl is great but many felt as though that was their chance for Atlanta.

In 2009, state was in its first year under Mullen. The guy had won two national titles in the last few years and he knew how to feed the fans. Although our 2009 schedule was one of the hardest per the NCAA in a while, we landed at 5-7. One of the five included a win over our rival who seemed to be in a comfortable spot atop the state's football hierarchy.The seven losses included several "moral victories" that gave some fans hope. Not to mention Mullen kept insisting that he would bring a winning program to state.

In 2010, the rebels went 4-8, seemingly reinforcing much of what the hog fans were saying. Personnel issues continue, assistant coaching changes are all but done, there is no set qb, game attendance is pathetic and so on.....State went 9-4, with two of our losses coming in extremely close games with BCS teams that we should have won. Our qb has found his passing ability, our rb's played well, our defense got exponentially better, our wide receivers seemed to progress as the year went on, we sold out every home game i think and so on.....

In closing, it's not "one good season", rather it's a trend, and the trend is very positive for state but it has been going the opposite way for the rebels. It seems as though the rebels topped out in 2008 and have been on a slow decline. Add to that the fact that there was a regime change in thepeak year so the new regime is trending downward, while state's regime change is trending upward. Of course asboth fan bases know, things can change quickly (state 2001/om 2010).The trend is why state fans feel as though the tide has turned in the state, not one good season. So there is no need to ever reply to a topic on this board with a reply like "is this gene's page? You guys think y'all own the state after one good season, we just went to back to back cotton bowls". It's the trend my friends, the trend.</div>

 

[Slumdawg]

<div>After reading a post below where some rebel said something to the effect of "one season a program does not make", it became apparent to me that the rebels don't understand why we feel good about our situation compared to theirs.

Rebel posters have said thousands of times on this board that state fans have leaped into a rosebowl-like euphoria because of "one good season". I will offer my explanation:

State has been in football purgatory for a decade. We climbed slightly out of the cellar in 2007 only to fall right back down in 2008. That's where we have been.

Several years back OM hires coachO who is nationally known to be a top recruiter. During his time there he shows why he has that reputation. The talent that the rebels had was pretty shocking, and many of them are now in the league. It seems he had a higher ratio of NFL talent on his teams than rebel teams in the past - again, just my perception, not saying it's fact. Unfortunately for rebel fans, the guy was as dumb as a box of rocks. He couldn't coach and despite having great talent, he failed and was shown the door.

Enter the hiring of Nutt. This made me nervous as Nutt had done well with the hogs. However, the hog fans constantly, albeit sometimes psychotically, insisted that Nutt will ruin the program because he can't recruit and always seems to have personnel issues on his teams, etc. They said just wait until coach o's recruits are gone and you will see - he will run you in the ground. Now it appears to me that he is recruiting just fine but that beside the point. Just as the hogs said, Nutt soared in his first year. At the end of 2008 OM probably could have beaten anyone. 2009 comes in and the team falls drastically short of some's expectations, despite going to a second cotton bowl. Itwas seen by some as a disappointing season - a cotton bowl is great but many felt as though that was their chance for Atlanta.

In 2009, state was in its first year under Mullen. The guy had won two national titles in the last few years and he knew how to feed the fans. Although our 2009 schedule was one of the hardest per the NCAA in a while, we landed at 5-7. One of the five included a win over our rival who seemed to be in a comfortable spot atop the state's football hierarchy.The seven losses included several "moral victories" that gave some fans hope. Not to mention Mullen kept insisting that he would bring a winning program to state.

In 2010, the rebels went 4-8, seemingly reinforcing much of what the hog fans were saying. Personnel issues continue, assistant coaching changes are all but done, there is no set qb, game attendance is pathetic and so on.....State went 9-4, with two of our losses coming in extremely close games with BCS teams that we should have won. Our qb has found his passing ability, our rb's played well, our defense got exponentially better, our wide receivers seemed to progress as the year went on, we sold out every home game i think and so on.....

In closing, it's not "one good season", rather it's a trend, and the trend is very positive for state but it has been going the opposite way for the rebels. It seems as though the rebels topped out in 2008 and have been on a slow decline. Add to that the fact that there was a regime change in thepeak year so the new regime is trending downward, while state's regime change is trending upward. Of course asboth fan bases know, things can change quickly (state 2001/om 2010).The trend is why state fans feel as though the tide has turned in the state, not one good season. So there is no need to ever reply to a topic on this board with a reply like "is this gene's page? You guys think y'all own the state after one good season, we just went to back to back cotton bowls". It's the trend my friends, the trend.</div>

 

[rebelrouseri]

1. Most OM fans don't see anything wrong with MSU reasonable fan's optimism;
2. If you think O was such a great recruiter, you should go back and look at ALL of his classes and his attrition rates; there is more to it than the psycho Arky line;
3. Was our attendance really that bad during a year w/ no exciting home games (odd years are the big ones for us);
4. Do you think Nutt sucks as a hc because of one bad year when we had serious holes to fill (again go look at O's classes more closely and explain why the recruitinator didn't recruit the oline) and then a ton of bad injuries?

 

[MrHooch]

you need to cater to your short-attention-spanned audience if you want people to read your post... boil it down to something like this:

Hey Rebels... you suck, we don't!

 

[jackstefano]

Hey Rebels... you suck, we don't!

********!

 

[JabbatheGut1]

You didn't read b/c he said 'Rebels' instead of 'Bearz or TSUN'...admit it.

 

[mstatefan88]

We played Auburn before they were ranked, UK, UAB, Alcorn St, Memphis, a Georgia team who was 1-3 at the time, and Arkansas, who was pretty good. Not a great home schedule, yet we sold out every one of those games. Before 2009, we would not have sold out but 2 of those games. You guys came off of 2 Cotton Bowls, and your fan base abandoned the football programless than halfof the way thru the season. I understand you had tough losses, but damn.

The end of the Egg Bowl was pathetic. There is no excuse for leaving your rivalry game as early as many of your fan base did. If you want to get to the next level, you have to have a fan base that is willing to tough it out through rough times, especially in the last game of the year against your in state rival. Admittedly, our fan base was getting pretty tired of losing and attendance wasn't great during the Croom years. But I guarantee if we somehow manage to go 5-7 or 6-6 next year we would sell out every home game.

 

[dawgstudent]

and you must have missed the 2003 Egg Bowl in Starkville.

 

[mstatefan88]

And no, I wasn't at the 2003 Egg Bowl. At that point I thought I was going to Auburn to college and wasn't an MSU fan. I actually hated MSU growing up an Auburn fanbecause of those late 90's games as a kidwhenMSU was beating Auburn. Didn't become a fan until 2005 when I figured out I was going to go to MSU. I'm guessing '03 was similar or worse than this past year in Oxford?</p>

 

[rebelrouseri]

was in 2010. My guess is that it wasn't that bad.

 

[Slumdawg]

1. The post wasdirected at the ones that have. If you or any other rebel fans have not, just disregard. It could be that the vocal minority of rebel fans are the ones on this board, but clearly some do.

2. Arky fans are psycho. The point was that O was considered a top recruiter and he did pull some talent. Wasn't/isn't that his reputation? A great recruiter?

3. Yes.

4. No, I think Nutt is a good coach in general. I think he did wonders at Arky, despite theirillusions of grandeur. I also not buying that he is aterrible recruiter as of right now. Y'all had a ton of injuries - I don't discount that.

The point was to explain to those who constantly tell us that one "good" season is no reason for feeling good about things - rouseri, you are evidently not one of those people.

 

[EmoryBellard]

I do not recall any such event.

 

[siverstreak]

The problem was that the Ole Miss supporters were on the three year plan - a common dilemma in today's college football - Win NOW at all costs! Plus, Coach O appeared to be all that has said about him: dumb as a sack of rocks, talked like he had a sack of rocks in his mouth, gruff interaction with people, etc. However, his OC and DC had won the national championship at the U and thus, they could hardly be called incompetent. I often wonder where that program would be now had he not gone for the first down in the 4th quarter during the '07 Eggbowl.

 

[Goat Holder II]

I'm guessing this is paid attendance, because I went to the Egg Bowl, and it lists that attendance as 58,625 and it didn't seem like that much. Maybe it was. What is your capacity, 60K give or take?

We averaged 54,999 per our site. We may list paid attendance too, although I'm pretty sure we don't. But not 100% certain. And what is our capacity, 55K?

So apparently your attendance was pretty good. Your stadium atmosphere was not. So I'd venture to say that either your attendance was down or your fans just suck. If the Egg Bowl was near a sellout as documented, then **** I'd hate to see your gameday atmosphere vs. Memphis or UAB. Might fall asleep.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...not one. Our coach was a lame duck, and he had quit on the team and they had quit on him. The fans knew it. They had a heisman candidate and it was pouring down rain.

The 2010 rebels were coming off of two cotton bowl wins and their program had a good bit of excitement going into the year.

That said, I probably would've left when they did. The game seemed out of reach.

 

[dawgstudent]

[No message]

 

[MSUArrowCS]

And this is all I remember:

it was pouring down rain.

 

[Goat Holder II]

I happen to know the players he brought in just happened to be middle and upperclassmen about the time he got fired. Plus Jevan Snead, who O never got to use. Ripe situation for Nutt. I mean, what did O do so drastically different? Lose to Vanderbilt? He had close calls himself with big boy teams. He took over a losing program and went 3-8, which is typical when the talent had dried up like it did under Cutcliffe (let's face it, we rag them about firing him, but his recrootin' wasn't the best). He improved the next year and beat MSU (did he really lose to anybody he should have beaten?). 2007 I think the momentum of the season kinda got him just like it got Nutt this year. Who knows what could have or would have happened. Anybody could see the talent he had on the field vs. MSU in 2007.

It's easy for Ole Miss to crucify O, it helps their rationalizations about Nutt. But I think they kind of over-hyped O's terribleness and Nutt's awesomeness at the same time. That's what irrational fans do.

 

[siverstreak]

<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-spacere"> </span>nm

 

[DowntownDawg]

nm

 

[rebelrouseri]

was especially back in '08. However, the guy was becoming hated by his players, his assistants were weak, and it appeared that the recruiting magic was being negated by his results and his conduct. I doubt he would have done well in '08 or '09 but you never know. The players he inherited his first year were actually pretty good. His stupidity made that a bad year and Cut's poor recruiting caught up to him his next two years.

 

[Goat Holder II]

just as key as Xs and Os most times. That's what got Croom. It bit Rich Rod at Michigan and Kragthorpe at Louisville. I'm sure they have their sides of the stories too because they had been successful coaches before.

 

[independencebowlmainstay]

I don't know a single Ole Miss fan that doesn't think MS State is moving in the right direction. I also agree, however, that you can't base everything off of one season. As the original poster stated, it is the trend. And IMO, both teams are trending in the right direction. The fact is neither of us will ever consistently get the players Bama, LSU, FL, GA, get....but we can get the one's that Auburn, Arky, TN, etc. get.

The fact is that Ole Miss had a TON on injuries this past year, and holes on the offensive line and secondary. State had a good year, and had some things go their way. Ole Miss and State aren't going to consistently win 9-10 games without getting some things go our way. We just don't have good enough players, for the most part. But, that doesn't mean we can't play and beat the big boys. We just aren't going to do it year in and year out.

Personally, I think both Nutt and Mullen are doing a good job. And the thing I like most about these two is that they seem to be able to keep the best players in state. That is something new in itself, and I hope that trend continues.

 

[siverstreak]

would be afraid to try him as a head coach again, but as a recruiting coordinator, he'd be worth a mint - as long as that is all he'd be required to do!

 

[RebelBruiser]

We played Auburn before they were ranked, UK, UAB, Alcorn St, Memphis, a Georgia team who was 1-3 at the time, and Arkansas, who was pretty good. Not a great home schedule, yet we sold out every one of those games. Before 2009, we would not have sold out but 2 of those games. You guys came off of 2 Cotton Bowls, and your fan base abandoned the football programless than halfof the way thru the season. I understand you had tough losses, but damn.

The end of the Egg Bowl was pathetic. There is no excuse for leaving your rivalry game as early as many of your fan base did. If you want to get to the next level, you have to have a fan base that is willing to tough it out through rough times, especially in the last game of the year against your in state rival. Admittedly, our fan base was getting pretty tired of losing and attendance wasn't great during the Croom years. But I guarantee if we somehow manage to go 5-7 or 6-6 next year we would sell out every home game.

Take a look at the highlighted part, and explain to me how that makes your fanbase any different than ours.

When there is excitement around your program, you sell out. When there isn't, you don't. Same with ours. When we lose to Jacksonville State and Vandy in 2 of the first 3 games, sure we're going to take an attendance hit later in the year. Call me the next time you take some early bad losses in an expected rebuilding year and your fans still sell the place out for every game. Hint, it won't happen.

 

[patdog]

Call me the next time you take some early bad losses in an expected rebuilding year and your fans still sell the place out for every game. Hint, it won't happen.

Most of your fans weren't expecting 2010 to be that much of a rebuilding year. Most were expecting 7 wins and hoping for more.

 

[Johnson85]

Personally, I think both Nutt and Mullen are doing a good job. And the thing I like most about these two is that they seem to be able to keep the best players in state. That is something new in itself, and I hope that trend continues.

Honest question. I thought as long as he had a ****** OOC schedule (as UM and MSU should both do, but apparently MSU is learning and UM is forgetting), he would have UM at 6-6or better consistently.But betweenunderachieving in 2009 (even though the record didn't reflect it,UM still lostgames it shouldn't have and lostgames worse than they should have) and crapping the bed this year against Jacksonville St., Vandy, and UT, I'm beginning to wonder if there wasn't some truth in Arkansas's fans ranting. Of course, you replace Nix with a good DC, and the last two years look a lot different, so maybeNutt will turn it around when he gets a new DC.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I happen to know the players he brought in just happened to be middle and upperclassmen about the time he got fired. Plus Jevan Snead, who O never got to use. Ripe situation for Nutt. I mean, what did O do so drastically different? Lose to Vanderbilt? He had close calls himself with big boy teams. He took over a losing program and went 3-8, which is typical when the talent had dried up like it did under Cutcliffe (let's face it, we rag them about firing him, but his recrootin' wasn't the best). He improved the next year and beat MSU (did he really lose to anybody he should have beaten?). 2007 I think the momentum of the season kinda got him just like it got Nutt this year. Who knows what could have or would have happened. Anybody could see the talent he had on the field vs. MSU in 2007.

It's easy for Ole Miss to crucify O, it helps their rationalizations about Nutt. But I think they kind of over-hyped O's terribleness and Nutt's awesomeness at the same time. That's what irrational fans do.

Likewise, irrational MSU and Arkansas fans (probably should just drop the irrational, that's what we all are) like to overhype Orgeron's recruiting for the opposite reason.

A big part of the reason for our poor season this past year was Orgeron's 2007 class that only had 6 or 7 players left 4 years later and the fact that he burned redshirts on a lot of his 2006 class for players that he either barely played or didn't need to play (Daverin Geralds, Cassius Vaughn, Kendrick Lewis to name a few). The other part of that is the 2008 transition class Nutt put together that didn't bring us a whole lot of athleticism. Outside of Brandon Bolden, Enrique Davis, and Melvin Harris, that 2008 class didn't give us much. There were some contributors from that previous class but no others that I would consider average SEC talent. The 2007 class gave us Sowell, Laurent, Lawon Scott, Johnny Brown, and Fon Ingram. You can debate whether a couple of those would even be considered average SEC talent, but that's it. Anything else that was left from those classes was below average. From the classes that were our 3rd and 4th year players this year, we had at most 8 players I would consider average or better SEC talent.

Some of the attrition from the 2009 class didn't help, but the 2006-2008 classes were a much bigger issue for us this past year than the 2009 class. Even with the attrition, the 2009 class has given us enough players to work with, probably more average or better SEC players than the 07 and 08 classes combined. You couple the 2006-2008 contributions with a defensive coordinator that isn't going to out-wit anyone and some key injuries, and it culminated in a bad season for us. I just wish we'd go ahead and make the Nix change now, but it's pretty easy to trace a lot of our issues back to the personnel we had on the field. You aren't going to win in the SEC with 1st and 2nd year players. We had too many of them on the field this past year.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Call me the next time you take some early bad losses in an expected rebuilding year and your fans still sell the place out for every game. Hint, it won't happen.

Most of your fans weren't expecting 2010 to be that much of a rebuilding year. Most were expecting 7 wins and hoping for more.

You're right. Most of us weren't expecting it to be THAT much of a rebuilding year, but like I said, the first 3 games changed the outlook for the fans. You can't deny that.

 

[Goat Holder II]

if we tanked the first three games. Not with Mullen anyhow. Dude, you just need to admit to yourself that your fans are pretty hard to satisfy and can be, uh, delusional at times. Your fans didn't really even show up for some of your patsy games in 2009. Can't remember which one, but a couple of them were an embarrassment.

You do it to yourselves with the ridiculous expectations and the yearning for days long past.

 

[1dawgfan09]

Call me the next time you take some early bad losses in an expected rebuilding year and your fans still sell the place out for every game. Hint, it won't happen.

Most of your fans weren't expecting 2010 to be that much of a rebuilding year. Most were expecting 7 wins and hoping for more.

You're right. Most of us weren't expecting it to be THAT much of a rebuilding year, but like I said, the first 3 games changed the outlook for the fans. You can't deny that.

Take when we lost to LA Tech. We never recaptured the lost momentum from that season. Same for Ole Miss and Jax'ville State.

 

[Todd4State]

when we went 5-7 and were coming off getting beat 45-0 and a 4-8 season. Dan was a big part of that. We are promoting our program much better and putting a better gameday product out there than you.

Also, we started out 1-2 this year, and we still sold out the Georgia game, which I think was a turning point for MSU this year.

 

[onemorebeer]

Yeah... we had a ****** atmosphere, but it was mostly due to our ****** team. Look at your Croom year's where you went a comparable 4-8. You were lucky to get 30k.

 

[dawgstudent]

to have 4-8 years 5 years in a row - let's see if you still average that attendance. And 30K is a bit of an exaggeration.

Also - I choose to look at percentages considering that we basically have the same size stadium.

 

[BehrDawg]

There is WAY too much info on Mississippi here. I am sure I speak for many of us on this board when I say, I don't give a 17 about any of this ****. If I did, I would be wearing "skinny" jeans with a bow tie. Thank God I'm not wearing the said outfit and thank God even more that I am not a fan of that ******** school.

Please, do us a favor and end this treachery.