Analysis of the Core 8s TV numbers from Baylor

[Buckaineer]

A very detailed, much more accurate analysis of how the Core 8 actually rate on TV without OU/UT:

Stop the Slander: AAC TV viewership doesn't equal to the Big 12 remains​

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sicem365.com

small sample excerpt of article:

Mandel used a combination of games on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2. FS1 was omitted from his comparison as (1) the AAC doesn’t appear on that network and (2) it’s generally a poor performing network that is worse than ESPN2 and barely does better than ESPNU.


When you look beyond 2018-2019 the, the remaining eight Big 12 teams outpace the AAC here by a good margin of around 60% overall and outpaces the league on each network.

When you add FOX broadcasts, it becomes 75% more viewers. I included FOX as it’s received 13% of the remaining eight’s top 23% of inventory. ESPN and FOX split television rights and typically slot the best games on ABC or FOX usually.

...........

How did each Big 12 school stack up from 2013-2020?​

When we look at league games from 2012-2020, we get the following:

Oklahoma State ranks first for obviously reasons including never having the poor ratings associated with missing a bowl in that span and some strong teams in 2013, 2016, 2017 and 2018.


Baylor comes in second with TCU & WVU right on its heels.


Tech and KSU follow them while ISU and especially KU rank further down due to how much of the sample range was spent with losing seasons.


KU didn't make a bowl in that time and ISU made it only four of the nine years.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

A very detailed, much more accurate analysis of how the Core 8 actually rate on TV without OU/UT:

Stop the Slander: AAC TV viewership doesn't equal to the Big 12 remains​

Loading…

sicem365.com

small sample excerpt of article:

Mandel used a combination of games on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2. FS1 was omitted from his comparison as (1) the AAC doesn’t appear on that network and (2) it’s generally a poor performing network that is worse than ESPN2 and barely does better than ESPNU.


When you look beyond 2018-2019 the, the remaining eight Big 12 teams outpace the AAC here by a good margin of around 60% overall and outpaces the league on each network.

When you add FOX broadcasts, it becomes 75% more viewers. I included FOX as it’s received 13% of the remaining eight’s top 23% of inventory. ESPN and FOX split television rights and typically slot the best games on ABC or FOX usually.

...........

How did each Big 12 school stack up from 2013-2020?​

When we look at league games from 2012-2020, we get the following:

Oklahoma State ranks first for obviously reasons including never having the poor ratings associated with missing a bowl in that span and some strong teams in 2013, 2016, 2017 and 2018.


Baylor comes in second with TCU & WVU right on its heels.


Tech and KSU follow them while ISU and especially KU rank further down due to how much of the sample range was spent with losing seasons.


KU didn't make a bowl in that time and ISU made it only four of the nine years.

But wait, viewership doesn't have anything do do with a school's conference value does it? Not according to the Rivals WVU Message Board. I keep reading it over and over again. If OSU and WVU have big years the next two years that wouldn't mean anything would it? Just wondering.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Doesn't matter what Baylor or the folks on message boards think. Its the networks that cut the checks and they decide what your value is.

 

[Buckaineer]

I think value is determined in negotiations and the BIG 12 can show factual information like this to media to prove their value is higher than the attempted devaluing of the core 8 members.

 

[Buckaineer]

But wait, viewership doesn't have anything do do with a school's conference value does it? Not according to the Rivals WVU Message Board. I keep reading it over and over again. If OSU and WVU have big years the next two years that wouldn't mean anything would it? Just wondering.

Yes, odd how so many are here to proclaim false valuations of BIG 12 members. Wonder where these posters are really from

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Yes, odd how so many are here to proclaim false valuations of BIG 12 members. Wonder where these posters are really from

If the big 12 is as great as you say then why are teams wanting to leave instead of joining it.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

In a conference with a target.

You are on a boat. Pretty much a dying conference. What does WVU do to make sure they land on shore. You have to know what these conferences desire. What conference gives you the best chance.
Sad thing is next conference the ACC is in the same position

WVU should be tough enough to find someway into a conference.
At least you think so

Man doesn’t know much until he has to fend for himself. Survival mode

 

[Buckaineer]

If the big 12 is as great as you say then why are teams wanting to leave instead of joining it.

There are plenty of schools that have wanted to join the BIG 12. Obviously the traitors BLOCKED the rest of the schools from acting in their own best interest and adding schools.

If you are talking POWER schools--the fact that Texas and to some degree Oklahoma were creating instability and blocking progressive movement, that caused anyone considering movement to pause that thought. So look at primarily TEXAS and OKLAHOMA if you want to know why schools have not been added.

Go back and read what FSU was saying back in 2012--TEXAS was a concern to them--an unusual amount of power, and only working in their interest as opposed to the Alabama's, Ohio State's of the world.

Has nothing to do with the Core 8 members.

 

[Buckaineer]

The ACC doesn't have the problem the BIG 12 had. Clemson/FSU are not using the conference with the intent of jumping ship. They are considering other conferences only because the revenues they can generate with the existing membership are too low.

WVU would help generate more revenue for them.

Even if someday someone lures some teams out of the ACC, it doesn't appear that is going to happen until the 2030's, so if WVU were to land a spot in there--you've got another decade going for you before potential change, and if the revenues become right for Clemson etc. then it may not change even then.

Really all depends on media rights and what's going to be available in that 2025 timeframe.

 

[mountaineermaniac34]

I’m not sure how much of this is relevant with everything going to be streamed in the next two years anyway. They’ll be focused on subscription dollars. Most of the games now are being streamed on an app via ESPN.

As soon as the NFL gets out of that horrible contract with DIRECTV, and they start streaming on their own app without them, DIRECTV will join Blockbuster video in relevance. Pretty much everything will be streamed as we all know. It allows companies like Amazon, Peacock, CBS, to really make a play for college athletics and surpass ESPIN.

For 20 years it’s always been about the media footprint and ESPN in conference realignment. ACC signed ridiculous contract until next decade, with apparently “look in” evaluations. Streaming dollars is they key.

There will be landing spots for the remaining eight with mergers, realignments, etc…

I will be surprised in 10 years if the SEC is even a part of the NCAA in football. They add four to six more teams, they can have their own NC and with own the south in regards to recruiting. Eventually in 2035 or or earlier or whatever, they could grab FSU, Clemson, VT, possibly WVU and would own the eastern shoreline too. ND would join as well.

 

[topdecktiger]

The article misses the point. The issue is not whether the 8 schools are more valuable than the AAC. The issue is how valuable they are relative to the other P5 conferences.

Bob Bowlsby himself said Oklahoma and Texas are 50% of the conference's value. There isn't a way to replace that. That's the issue.

 

[Buckaineer]

When you look at the actual numbers, while games vs OU and UT were nice boosters, the core 8 had nice ratings without those schools- and a good portion of the ratings Ou/UT got were the result of playing the core 8 members.

if a network takes a WVU and has them playing Clemson and FSU etc- WVUs fanbase and the interest in those games would be higher than the same for a noon BIG 12 game. Bowlsby was speaking about simply taking the ratings of those two out of the BIG 12 s numbers, but wasnt considering what would happen if you matched ie WVU vs UNC or ISU vs PSU or OK State vs USC instead.

 

[Mountain Man_rivals148431]

The ACC doesn't have the problem the BIG 12 had. Clemson/FSU are not using the conference with the intent of jumping ship. They are considering other conferences only because the revenues they can generate with the existing membership are too low.

WVU would help generate more revenue for them.

Even if someday someone lures some teams out of the ACC, it doesn't appear that is going to happen until the 2030's, so if WVU were to land a spot in there--you've got another decade going for you before potential change, and if the revenues become right for Clemson etc. then it may not change even then.

Really all depends on media rights and what's going to be available in that 2025 timeframe.

You sure about this? I hope you're right.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

There are plenty of schools that have wanted to join the BIG 12. Obviously the traitors BLOCKED the rest of the schools from acting in their own best interest and adding schools.

If you are talking POWER schools--the fact that Texas and to some degree Oklahoma were creating instability and blocking progressive movement, that caused anyone considering movement to pause that thought. So look at primarily TEXAS and OKLAHOMA if you want to know why schools have not been added.

Go back and read what FSU was saying back in 2012--TEXAS was a concern to them--an unusual amount of power, and only working in their interest as opposed to the Alabama's, Ohio State's of the world.

Has nothing to do with the Core 8 members.

Name the schools that wanted to join the big 12? You still haven't addressed why more schools have wanted to leave the big 12 then stay.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

The article misses the point. The issue is not whether the 8 schools are more valuable than the AAC. The issue is how valuable they are relative to the other P5 conferences.

Bob Bowlsby himself said Oklahoma and Texas are 50% of the conference's value. There isn't a way to replace that. That's the issue.

Thats buck always missing the point

 

[Buckaineer]

Name the schools that wanted to join the big 12? You still haven't addressed why more schools have wanted to leave the big 12 then stay.

Texas is the reason for both. Do some reading. Texas is now gone and your question has no relevance to anything being discussed. Do you even know whats being discussed?

 

[Buckaineer]

Thats buck always missing the point

Thats Voorhees trolling and derailing threads because he isnt intelligent enough to discuss anything and so lashes out at those that are.

No point has been missed— in fact the point has been made that yes - BIG 12 schools are far more valuable than some in media and social media would pretend.

 

[Buckaineer]

You sure about this? I hope you're right.

Clemson has not played the ACC. Theyve had opportunity to leave before but didnt. They didnt block a network. They didnt block expansion. They didnt try to stop the ACC from doing anything- in fact worked with them to greatly improve the situation for the entire ACC.

Not sure what you are hoping for as the ACC has a grant of rights that borrowed from the BIG 12 to write it. Its obviously effective or the traitors would be gone already- but they arent and theyll have to leave behind those media rights or sit in the BIG 12 with no power and maybe no revenues through 2025.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Thats Voorhees trolling and derailing threads because he isnt intelligent enough to discuss anything and so lashes out at those that are.

No point has been missed— in fact the point has been made that yes - BIG 12 schools are far more valuable than some in media and social media would pretend.

you are missing the point troll. You always call people trolls when you can't dispute facts. The fact is the remaining big 12 isn't that valuable in comparison to the other power 5 conferences. Its the accountants in the back ground who determine value not message board messiahs like yourself.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Texas is the reason for both. Do some reading. Texas is now gone and your question has no relevance to anything being discussed. Do you even know whats being discussed?

Well that fact that Texas has done this says its not a great conference to be a member of. The fact that half of the founding members are gone should tell you what they actually thought of the arrangement in the 1st place. Baylor is whining because they don't have Ann Richards to bail them out this time.

 

[VaultHunter]

For comparison: Week 14 last year, Thanksgiving weekend

Alabama vs LSU 4.2 million
Indiana vs Wisconsin 3.8 million
Syracuse vs Notre Dame 2.8 million
WVU vs Iowa State 1.2 million
BYU vs Costal Carolina 1.2 million

See the problem?

 

[Buckaineer]

you are missing the point troll. You always call people trolls when you can't dispute facts. The fact is the remaining big 12 isn't that valuable in comparison to the other power 5 conferences. Its the accountants in the back ground who determine value not message board messiahs like yourself.

You are trolling the remaining 8 as you have always done. Because you are paid to do it most likely (or programmed).

No one has said 8 schools are as valuable as 12, 14 and 14.5 school conferences.

What they've said, what I've repeated and shown evidence for is that the 8 schools are AS VALUABLE as most of the schools IN those other power conferences, and MORE valuable than a large number of them.

You are docking the Core 8 because they won't play UT/OU in a few years (who got half of their tv viewers from the Core 8) but ignoring that their ratings will be the SAME or even BETTER if they are playing i.e. PSU/Ohio State, USC/Oregon, Clemson/FSU/Miami etc.

 

[Buckaineer]

Well that fact that Texas has done this says its not a great conference to be a member of. The fact that half of the founding members are gone should tell you what they actually thought of the arrangement in the 1st place. Baylor is whining because they don't have Ann Richards to bail them out this time.

Another meaningless nonsensical rant.

Texas being Texas has nothing to do with the conference or the members of it.

Didn't stop Big Ten/SEC/PAC and ACC schools considering joining the conference.

BTW schools have also left the SEC/ACC/Big Ten in their history as well.

But they didn't have a TEXAS or OU blocking each and every proactive move for selfish corrupt reasons that made those on the outside reluctant to be a part anyway.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Numbers. They can be misleading as hell.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

You are trolling the remaining 8 as you have always done. Because you are paid to do it most likely (or programmed).

No one has said 8 schools are as valuable as 12, 14 and 14.5 school conferences.

What they've said, what I've repeated and shown evidence for is that the 8 schools are AS VALUABLE as most of the schools IN those other power conferences, and MORE valuable than a large number of them.

You are docking the Core 8 because they won't play UT/OU in a few years (who got half of their tv viewers from the Core 8) but ignoring that their ratings will be the SAME or even BETTER if they are playing i.e. PSU/Ohio State, USC/Oregon, Clemson/FSU/Miami etc.

The only troll is yourself. Nothing you have ever said about the big 12 and expansion has ever come true. The value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. Half of the members of the big 12 thought there was more value in leaving. The networks don't want the big 12 there goal is to finish it off like they did the big east. That is the reality troll.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Numbers. They can be misleading as hell.

just bucky trying to cook them. He is just like CFE. found out that the powers that be were never really invested in the big 12.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Another meaningless nonsensical rant.

Texas being Texas has nothing to do with the conference or the members of it.

Didn't stop Big Ten/SEC/PAC and ACC schools considering joining the conference.

BTW schools have also left the SEC/ACC/Big Ten in their history as well.

But they didn't have a TEXAS or OU blocking each and every proactive move for selfish corrupt reasons that made those on the outside reluctant to be a part anyway.

No teams from the big 10 or Sec ever wanted to join the Big 12 fool. Teams from the acc only used it to leverage their position within the acc. The pac 12 attempted a full scale raid of the Big 12 in 2010. In 2009 some within the big east suggested that they should have attempted a raid of the big Big 12. Big 12 has always been a red headed step child within the power 5 hierarchy.

 

[topdecktiger]

You are trolling the remaining 8 as you have always done. Because you are paid to do it most likely (or programmed).

No one has said 8 schools are as valuable as 12, 14 and 14.5 school conferences.

What they've said, what I've repeated and shown evidence for is that the 8 schools are AS VALUABLE as most of the schools IN those other power conferences, and MORE valuable than a large number of them.

You are docking the Core 8 because they won't play UT/OU in a few years (who got half of their tv viewers from the Core 8) but ignoring that their ratings will be the SAME or even BETTER if they are playing i.e. PSU/Ohio State, USC/Oregon, Clemson/FSU/Miami etc.

They aren't going to be playing those teams though, except for the occasional OOC game.

 

[WVUALLEN]

No teams from the big 10 or Sec ever wanted to join the Big 12 fool. Teams from the acc only used it to leverage their position within the acc. The pac 12 attempted a full scale raid of the Big 12 in 2010. In 2009 some within the big east suggested that they should have attempted a raid of the big Big 12. Big 12 has always been a red headed step child within the power 5 hierarchy.

I don't know PAC 12 seems to be the step child nobody talks about. The ACC is the look at me teenager that everybody ignores except Clemson. The SEC is the neighborhood bully and BIG 10 is the old pervert drunken grandfather.

Big 12 is first family member to die.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

I don't know PAC 12 seems to be the step child nobody talks about. The ACC is the look at me teenager that everybody ignores except Clemson. The SEC is the neighborhood bully and BIG 10 is the old pervert drunken grandfather.

Big 12 is first family member to die.

who knows what happens to the pac 12 but at least no one has left yet. Big 12 can't say that. But don't tell buck that.

 

[Buckaineer]

They aren't going to be playing those teams though, except for the occasional OOC game.

We shall see. Most likely is every year they'll be playing some of these schools.

 

[Buckaineer]

The only troll is yourself. Nothing you have ever said about the big 12 and expansion has ever come true. The value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. Half of the members of the big 12 thought there was more value in leaving. The networks don't want the big 12 there goal is to finish it off like they did the big east. That is the reality troll.

Everything I've said about expansion has come true--while nothing you've claimed ever has.

I said FSU and Clemson were considering the BIG 12--they did.

I said the BIG 12 needed to expand for various reasons and would consider "G5" schools. They did have a need for expansion as they told us and evaluated and Oklahoma even lead the charge at that time--to also include G5 schools in an expansion.

I said if they did not expand back in 2016, it was the death knell for the conference. And guess what--it looks like that may be 100% spot on as well.

Idiots like you who are obviously here simply to disrupt and destroy WVU and the BIG 12 with incessant negativity towards everything--obviously paid to do so --or programmed conversely have never gotten anything right.

 

[Buckaineer]

No teams from the big 10 or Sec ever wanted to join the Big 12 fool. Teams from the acc only used it to leverage their position within the acc. The pac 12 attempted a full scale raid of the Big 12 in 2010. In 2009 some within the big east suggested that they should have attempted a raid of the big Big 12. Big 12 has always been a red headed step child within the power 5 hierarchy.

Complete idiocy. You are confusing that they didn't LEAVE to join the BIG 12 with "no one ever wanted" to b.s. The addition of Missouri and AtM was largely due to the threat of ARKANSAS departing the SEC back then for the BIG 12 due to lack of success and no schools anywhere close to them.

Nebraska has strongly considered rejoining the BIG 12.

BIG 12 schools earned the third highest ratings--very close to the Big 10 on per team average, had rights bought up by two major networks, participated in numerous playoffs despite being the smallest conference.

But you've never dealt with reality very well have you.

 

[topdecktiger]

We shall see. Most likely is every year they'll be playing some of these schools.

I'm not sure why you say it's likely. They don't play those schools that often now.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

But wait, viewership doesn't have anything do do with a school's conference value does it? Not according to the Rivals WVU Message Board. I keep reading it over and over again. If OSU and WVU have big years the next two years that wouldn't mean anything would it? Just wondering.

Viewership is huge and now I have been convince, by our genius in-the-know handles here, that WVU is a very popular National brand. I’m just wondering why it appears WVU is not in high demand. Strange!

Thoughts?

 

[WVUALLEN]

Everything I've said about expansion has come true--while nothing you've claimed ever has.

I said FSU and Clemson were considering the BIG 12--they did.

I said the BIG 12 needed to expand for various reasons and would consider "G5" schools. They did have a need for expansion as they told us and evaluated and Oklahoma even lead the charge at that time--to also include G5 schools in an expansion.

I said if they did not expand back in 2016, it was the death knell for the conference. And guess what--it looks like that may be 100% spot on as well.

Idiots like you who are obviously here simply to disrupt and destroy WVU and the BIG 12 with incessant negativity towards everything--obviously paid to do so --or programmed conversely have never gotten anything right.

You claimed OU and Texas where never leaving Big 12.

That's called you fail.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

When you look at the actual numbers, while games vs OU and UT were nice boosters, the core 8 had nice ratings without those schools- and a good portion of the ratings Ou/UT got were the result of playing the core 8 members.

if a network takes a WVU and has them playing Clemson and FSU etc- WVUs fanbase and the interest in those games would be higher than the same for a noon BIG 12 game. Bowlsby was speaking about simply taking the ratings of those two out of the BIG 12 s numbers, but wasnt considering what would happen if you matched ie WVU vs UNC or ISU vs PSU or OK State vs USC instead.

Your post reeks of insecurities and denials. Dude the Tiny8 is nothing without Texas and Oklahoma. It’s worse than if Ohio State and Michigan left the BigTen. There is zero lipstick you can put on this Tiny8 pig to make it look better.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Complete idiocy. You are confusing that they didn't LEAVE to join the BIG 12 with "no one ever wanted" to b.s. The addition of Missouri and AtM was largely due to the threat of ARKANSAS departing the SEC back then for the BIG 12 due to lack of success and no schools anywhere close to them.

Nebraska has strongly considered rejoining the BIG 12.

BIG 12 schools earned the third highest ratings--very close to the Big 10 on per team average, had rights bought up by two major networks, participated in numerous playoffs despite being the smallest conference.

But you've never dealt with reality very well have you.

Nebraska is never coming back to the big 12 nor do they want to. Missouri always wanted to be in the big 10 but received no offer. T&am left because they received an offer from the sec. The only teams that want to be in the big 12 are G5 scrubs. The remaining 8 don't want to be there either. The big 12 has always been a dog with flees. Its shocking that you haven't figured that out.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Everything I've said about expansion has come true--while nothing you've claimed ever has.

I said FSU and Clemson were considering the BIG 12--they did.

I said the BIG 12 needed to expand for various reasons and would consider "G5" schools. They did have a need for expansion as they told us and evaluated and Oklahoma even lead the charge at that time--to also include G5 schools in an expansion.

I said if they did not expand back in 2016, it was the death knell for the conference. And guess what--it looks like that may be 100% spot on as well.

Idiots like you who are obviously here simply to disrupt and destroy WVU and the BIG 12 with incessant negativity towards everything--obviously paid to do so --or programmed conversely have never gotten anything right.

The only idiot is yourself. Texas and Oklahoma never had any intention of expanding the conference. Texas and Oklahoma never had any intention of staying. The only question was when they were going to leave. Everybody with any sense knew this was going to happen. The only fools who got caught off guard were the ones living in the big 12 is great fantasy land like yourself.

 

[WVUALLEN]

The only idiot is yourself. Texas and Oklahoma never had any intention of expanding the conference. Texas and Oklahoma never had any intention of staying. The only question was when they were going to leave. Everybody with any sense knew this was going to happen. The only fools who got caught off guard were the ones living in the big 12 is great fantasy land like yourself.

He doesn't understand those numbers are mainly because of OU and Texas on the schedule.