Another Mullen Debate: Recruiting Philosphy
- Thread starter missouridawg
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Not necessarily every recruiting thread. Its just that football's what I love and recruiting is the only part of football that's being discussed now. So I guess I just debate the subjects I care about. Why would I get banned for that?
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Totally agree with your 2nd paragraph. We did well, but there are waaaaaaay too many OM fans wooly about 1 class. We arguably matched the top teams with 1 class. IF and that a big IF, they stay in school, we need at least 2 more to compete consistently. We look to be on our way with the 2nd class in a row, but who knows? I do disagree with Heawww. Both schools can do it with the right combo of the variables involved in the process
You either don't follow recruiting very closely or you just like talking out your ***.
And by the way, Mullen doesn't know his sell. But he has you sold.
I'm not seeing the budget connection. Schools like that have big budgets because they win. Hell, LSU before Saban and USC before Carroll were irrelevant for at least a decade despite their big budgets. They revived the programs becaused they started winning. Mullen has been duped too many times in the recruiting process. If Auburn and TSUN hadn't been down since 2011, we'd really be in trouble.
Why all this talk about getting "all the best"? We don't need the best. We should be getting a majority of Top 25 best at each position. When we're pulling Top 100-150 players, we're in trouble. Mullen doesn't know his sell.
Has Mullen been building up the O-Line? Absolutely not. If there's one position he's failed to recruit, it's been O-Line. He's having to use JUCOs because he failed to make an effort for quality OL. And I'm still looking for the prized recruits for his dual-threat offense. After 5 years I don't see these dual-treat types lining up at the door. It should get easier to recruit them now that Malzahn, Freeze, and Sumlin are in the SEC**
So, we should move to an easier conference and after 20 years, we'll finally be competitive? We should look a little closer to home and a more comparable situation and take notes from Vanderbilt and Kentucky.
And by the way, Mullen doesn't know his sell. But he has you sold.
So he's single handedly the reason we don't haul in better classes? I don't buy that at all. I flat out said he doesn't help us out as much as we want, but the whole bracky Brett is single handedly the reason OM and bama got better classes is flat out ridiculous. I just don't buy the notion that he sits in his office and waits to blow the whistle on a redshirt track player who washed her car on campus.
| OT | 1 | <nobr>
| Laremy Tunsil (Columbia HS - South) Lake City, FL |
| <nobr> 6-6/295 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| DE | 1 | <nobr>
| Robert Nkemdiche (Grayson HS) Loganville, GA |
| <nobr> 6-4/282/4.72 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| S | 3 | <nobr>
| Antonio Conner (South Panola HS) Batesville, MS |
| <nobr> 6-1/205/4.53 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| WR | 5 | <nobr>
| Laquon Treadwell (Crete-Monee HS) Crete, IL |
| <nobr> 6-3/190 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| OT | 10 | <nobr>
| Austin Golson (Prattville HS) Prattville, AL |
| <nobr> 6-6/290/5.34 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| TE | 11 | <nobr>
| Christian Morgan (Prestonwood Christian) Plano, TX |
| <nobr> 6-4/255 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| RB | 19 | <nobr>
| Kailo Moore (West Bolivar Dist HS) Rosedale, MS |
| <nobr> 5-11/185/4.44 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| QB | 26 | <nobr>
| Devante Kincade (Skyline HS) Dallas, TX |
| <nobr> 6-1/185 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| QB | 32 | <nobr>
| Ryan Buchanan (Jackson Preparatory School) Jackson, MS |
| <nobr> 6-4/210 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
| RB | 38 | <nobr>
| Mark Dodson (Whitehaven HS) Memphis, TN |
| <nobr> 5-10/192 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
<tbody>
</tbody>
| DT | JC | <nobr>
| Lavon Hooks (Northeast Mississippi) Booneville, MS |
| <nobr> 6-4/295 </nobr> | Verbal | Yes | Committed to Mississippi |
<tbody>
</tbody>
couldnt agree more. one thing is for sure, we are clueless as to the ways of the sec. its like we are functional retards and everyone else are rhodes scholars when it comes to these matters. its been damn embarrassing how these type things have backfired in our face and i am convinced we dont do anything in excess of what other sec teams do consistently to bring in talent, except get caught.
the buck has to stop somewhere and i think its time for a new direction in the compliance dept. it seems like we are playing checkers and everyone else is playing chess and its getting embarrassing.
When every other school uses the "we didnt find any infractions during our...
Investigation" approach and the NCAA takes their word for it, while on the other hand we turn ourselves in every time a booster buys a recruit a candy bar and bottled water, we will never have top 10 recruiting classes. Its a fact that Everybody does it, and the fact that we self report everything, will make top recruits shy away from us, for fear they will get Redmond treatment. Whereas they can go to OM and receive any benefit known to man and not worry about OM compliance reporting it. It's really not that difficult to see how Bracky is negatively effecting our recruiting.
Slightly different topic, but doesn't OM football outsource their compliance to a firm, to which the NCAA cannot question, since NCAA has no subpoena power? Remember hearing something about this but never for details.
Investigation" approach and the NCAA takes their word for it, while on the other hand we turn ourselves in every time a booster buys a recruit a candy bar and bottled water, we will never have top 10 recruiting classes. Its a fact that Everybody does it, and the fact that we self report everything, will make top recruits shy away from us, for fear they will get Redmond treatment. Whereas they can go to OM and receive any benefit known to man and not worry about OM compliance reporting it. It's really not that difficult to see how Bracky is negatively effecting our recruiting.
Slightly different topic, but doesn't OM football outsource their compliance to a firm, to which the NCAA cannot question, since NCAA has no subpoena power? Remember hearing something about this but never for details.
Like everyone, I have an opinion, so here goes. Mullen is a bright young, energetic guy, but when it comes to recruiting in MS and in general the South, you have to be able to get the entire family to back you. Sherrill could talk the talk with Mom and had the national name to swing some kids that would have gone to other schools. Mullen is not from the South, and I don't think that helps him in this situation. The best thing he can do to help recruiting is what he has tried to do this year. Get assistant coaches that "can" identify with these kids and where they are from. The best thing we alumni can do is make sure that we can compete with other schools for paying top assistants and keeping them for a long time. A revolving door of assistant coaches will do nothing but hurt recruiting all around.
Couldn't have said it any better myself. This is exactly what everyone else does
Every other program denies until the end that they did nothing wrong or had no knowledge of any wrong doing. Basically its one person's word versus another. And in this case you have a fat piece of 17 wanna be rogue agent's words, vs the words of a SEC institution. Unless the institution if 17ing dumb enough to help out with the info gathering and say "we did it" nothing will ever come of it.
You think the Alabama compliance dept was offering to assist with the investigation on the suit dealer stuff? 17 no. They stuck their heads in the sand and denied any and every accusation. That's what everybody does except US. How 17ing hard is it to figure out that this type of behavior from out Athletic Department HURTS OUR RECRUITING on multiple levels. For one, we've lost schollys. Secondly we are on probation, thus turning away some recruits. And thirdly, what top recruit wants to choose a school that's gonna turn in such activities, when every school violates the rules. Redmond's was a chump change violation, compared to the recruiting BS that goes on a couple hours down the road in both directions from Starkville. The NCAA is such a cluster17, the universities turning them selves in and information over is the only way they police the schools. Look at the Miami ********. They're not going to get any penalties after all of that, and we get hammered over something small? Use your brain people.
Every other program denies until the end that they did nothing wrong or had no knowledge of any wrong doing. Basically its one person's word versus another. And in this case you have a fat piece of 17 wanna be rogue agent's words, vs the words of a SEC institution. Unless the institution if 17ing dumb enough to help out with the info gathering and say "we did it" nothing will ever come of it.
You think the Alabama compliance dept was offering to assist with the investigation on the suit dealer stuff? 17 no. They stuck their heads in the sand and denied any and every accusation. That's what everybody does except US. How 17ing hard is it to figure out that this type of behavior from out Athletic Department HURTS OUR RECRUITING on multiple levels. For one, we've lost schollys. Secondly we are on probation, thus turning away some recruits. And thirdly, what top recruit wants to choose a school that's gonna turn in such activities, when every school violates the rules. Redmond's was a chump change violation, compared to the recruiting BS that goes on a couple hours down the road in both directions from Starkville. The NCAA is such a cluster17, the universities turning them selves in and information over is the only way they police the schools. Look at the Miami ********. They're not going to get any penalties after all of that, and we get hammered over something small? Use your brain people.
Where did I say that he is "single-handedly" the reason
Why we don't haul in better classes? My point is it's hard to say that Dan "can't recruit" when you have a compliance director that is a MAJOR roadblock for him and us as far as recruiting. The fact is we really don't totally know if Dan can recruit or not because as it is he is not recruiting on a level playing field with the others because of our administration.
What I'm saying is, if you want to know what the REAL problem is it's Brett, and if you want us to recruit on a level playing field and get better results in recruiting, then we need to get rid of him. But until Dan is recruiting on a level playing field, there's really no point in bitching about it until we solve the obstacle.
And for whatever it's worth- I highly doubt we would recruit as well as Alabama without Bracky. If we start winning SEC and National Titles in football then maybe we can talk about recruiting like Alabama, but until then comparing our class to theirs is irrelevant.
Why we don't haul in better classes? My point is it's hard to say that Dan "can't recruit" when you have a compliance director that is a MAJOR roadblock for him and us as far as recruiting. The fact is we really don't totally know if Dan can recruit or not because as it is he is not recruiting on a level playing field with the others because of our administration.
What I'm saying is, if you want to know what the REAL problem is it's Brett, and if you want us to recruit on a level playing field and get better results in recruiting, then we need to get rid of him. But until Dan is recruiting on a level playing field, there's really no point in bitching about it until we solve the obstacle.
And for whatever it's worth- I highly doubt we would recruit as well as Alabama without Bracky. If we start winning SEC and National Titles in football then maybe we can talk about recruiting like Alabama, but until then comparing our class to theirs is irrelevant.
It starts at the top with Stricklin, maybe even Keenum. The next compliance director we bring in isn't going to be tellingthe NCAA to **** off, because Stricklin isn't going to hire that type of guy.
Auburn football, Kentucky basketball live in the grey areas. They always have, always will. But if you think Bracky Britt is all that stands between us and UK Basketball/Calipari you're wrong.
We got caught red handed with a booster, a player, and a coach. Then the coach lied to the NCAA. Out of all of that we got hit with 2 schollys, fired a young coach, lost some OVs, and Redmond lost a year. It could have been worse.
We got caught red handed with a booster, a player, and a coach. Then the coach lied to the NCAA. Out of all of that we got hit with 2 schollys, fired a young coach, lost some OVs, and Redmond lost a year. It could have been worse.
"The REAL problem is Bracky Brett being the hall monitor and trying to look good to the NCAA. Until Scott fixes this, we are going to struggle in recruiting."
It sounds very much like what you are saying is that the reason we can't recruit is Bracky Brett. That sentence does not say "Bracky is a big problem" or "Bracky is a reason..." it says "The REAL problem is Bracky Brett being hall monitor."
I'm not trying to nitpick every little thing, but if we wanted to skirt around our compliance director when it comes to recruiting, it doesn't seem like it's that hard to do. I'm not a huge Bracky Brett fan myself because of the way we handled the Redmond and Sidney deals, but I don't buy the notion that the reason we can't recruit at a higher level is solely on our compliance director.
It sounds very much like what you are saying is that the reason we can't recruit is Bracky Brett. That sentence does not say "Bracky is a big problem" or "Bracky is a reason..." it says "The REAL problem is Bracky Brett being hall monitor."
I'm not trying to nitpick every little thing, but if we wanted to skirt around our compliance director when it comes to recruiting, it doesn't seem like it's that hard to do. I'm not a huge Bracky Brett fan myself because of the way we handled the Redmond and Sidney deals, but I don't buy the notion that the reason we can't recruit at a higher level is solely on our compliance director.
A player or two
especially since we are talking about 4-5 star guys makes a HUGE difference. Over four years, that's four to EIGHT players on each team every single year. And I disagree a little bit- I think it's at LEAST 4-5 players a year vs. 1-2.
especially since we are talking about 4-5 star guys makes a HUGE difference. Over four years, that's four to EIGHT players on each team every single year. And I disagree a little bit- I think it's at LEAST 4-5 players a year vs. 1-2.
Everything you just posted is useless. Either that you can't comprehend. I addressed every one of your points already. Not to mention your assumptions are way off-base. For example, our OL is in as good a shape as I can remember. You literally just made something up in your own small head.
He is a huge obstacle
But again, until we take care of this obstacle- we aren't really going to know how Dan is at recruiting. Once Bracky is gone, and then the playing field is level, let's see what Dan can do. Heck, for all I know he still may not be able to recruit, but I highly doubt it when you level out the playing field when you consider the 4-5 star guys that he has been getting that MSU fans conveniently like to forget about.
If Dan can't recruit, it is what it is, but I at least prefer to judge that when he is dealing with things that are the same as everyone else in the SEC. And what's different between us and the SEC as far as recruiting? Our compliance director does not protect our players, and is willing to turn MSU in at the drop of a hat and in the process LOOKS for things that we did wrong to make them worse.
But again, until we take care of this obstacle- we aren't really going to know how Dan is at recruiting. Once Bracky is gone, and then the playing field is level, let's see what Dan can do. Heck, for all I know he still may not be able to recruit, but I highly doubt it when you level out the playing field when you consider the 4-5 star guys that he has been getting that MSU fans conveniently like to forget about.
If Dan can't recruit, it is what it is, but I at least prefer to judge that when he is dealing with things that are the same as everyone else in the SEC. And what's different between us and the SEC as far as recruiting? Our compliance director does not protect our players, and is willing to turn MSU in at the drop of a hat and in the process LOOKS for things that we did wrong to make them worse.
My *** Chip Kelly wasn't involved
However, this is an example of HOW a compliance department should be run. Deny, deny, deny, and you end up getting off light.
If WE had denied, we aren't on probation right now and Redmond is playing the full season. Guaranteed.
However, this is an example of HOW a compliance department should be run. Deny, deny, deny, and you end up getting off light.
If WE had denied, we aren't on probation right now and Redmond is playing the full season. Guaranteed.
Why are you comparing us to Alabama?
In any way, shape or form. We have NOTHING in common with them except that Jackie and Croom were a part of their program at one time.
We can't recruit like Alabama. Why? Because we don't have National Titles, SEC championships, and rabid insane fans that are willing to foreclose their trailer to buy season tickets.
When you are comparing us to Alabama, it would be like the Seattle Mariners wondering why they aren't getting free agents like the Yankees.
We can compete, but we have to do it totally differently. We have to take raw athletes- like Benardrick McKinney, and we should be taking a few guys that are high IQ football guys which is an area I think we have grossly neglected, and then a few blue chips. And when I say a few, I mean 4-5 four to five star players. Alabama is getting probably around 20 guys per class that are physically ready for the NFL almost and are only going to be there for three years and can play right away. NO ONE else in the SEC is doing that or getting that.
In any way, shape or form. We have NOTHING in common with them except that Jackie and Croom were a part of their program at one time.
We can't recruit like Alabama. Why? Because we don't have National Titles, SEC championships, and rabid insane fans that are willing to foreclose their trailer to buy season tickets.
When you are comparing us to Alabama, it would be like the Seattle Mariners wondering why they aren't getting free agents like the Yankees.
We can compete, but we have to do it totally differently. We have to take raw athletes- like Benardrick McKinney, and we should be taking a few guys that are high IQ football guys which is an area I think we have grossly neglected, and then a few blue chips. And when I say a few, I mean 4-5 four to five star players. Alabama is getting probably around 20 guys per class that are physically ready for the NFL almost and are only going to be there for three years and can play right away. NO ONE else in the SEC is doing that or getting that.
Money and boosters with money talk
A few more classes where we lose some players that we shouldn't, someone is going to go to Dan and ask why and then they are going to go to Scott. Once they figure out why, hopefully the problem will be solved.
Typical Mississippi State football though it will take about THREE years before anyone figures out that the anti-Bracky people are right.
A few more classes where we lose some players that we shouldn't, someone is going to go to Dan and ask why and then they are going to go to Scott. Once they figure out why, hopefully the problem will be solved.
Typical Mississippi State football though it will take about THREE years before anyone figures out that the anti-Bracky people are right.
What the hell, you babbling moron? Have you completely ignored every single one of my posts in this thread? You just repeated my original point.
The hell you say. Even if it just did make a difference in a player or two, it would probably be worth it. Plus all of this "The NCAA is gonna hammer MSU" garbage wouldn't be floating around out there for other schools to use against us.
I guarantee you that our recruitment of Chris Jones wasn't sparkly clean, either. I place the blame on us losing players we should get on our coaches WAY before I would our compliance director. Like the point I've made already, it probably isn't that difficult to get around our compliance office... just don't tell them. It's that simple. Do you tell your boss whenever you break every little rule or do something in the "gray" area? Unless Bracky has some gestapo-like officers working around the clock to track every little thing down, he won't find out if you don't tell him.
Many of us admitted the Sidney mess could have been handled better... and maybe the Redmond situation, too... but unless the NCAA didn't have hard evidence (which they did), it doesn't matter how much denying or lawyering up we do, our situation would be marginally better, at best.
Many of us admitted the Sidney mess could have been handled better... and maybe the Redmond situation, too... but unless the NCAA didn't have hard evidence (which they did), it doesn't matter how much denying or lawyering up we do, our situation would be marginally better, at best.
Didnt numerous message boards say Cecil asked for money? It doesnt matter who..
Records what. If we deny any implications, like the Auburns, Bamas, Miamis, etc., they wont do a 17ing thing to us. ****, they even have concrete evidence against Miami, but since it wasn't volunteered, and extracted during a criminal investigation, they cant do a 17ing thing to Miami.
The last two times we've been hit with sanctions were because we have been such a huge ****** when dealing with the NCAA, not even Tampax or Vagisil would sponsor us. Sorry *** LT rolled on Jackie last time and piece of 17 Bracky reported a pocket change violation. We are pussies when it comes to standing up to the ncaa. Every other school tells them to 17 off and eat ****. We invite them in for tea and crumpets every time they come knocking, and give them all the incriminating evidence we can. The have 0.0000 subpoena power and can only go on he said, she said ****. Nice guys always get 17ed.
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Records what. If we deny any implications, like the Auburns, Bamas, Miamis, etc., they wont do a 17ing thing to us. ****, they even have concrete evidence against Miami, but since it wasn't volunteered, and extracted during a criminal investigation, they cant do a 17ing thing to Miami.
The last two times we've been hit with sanctions were because we have been such a huge ****** when dealing with the NCAA, not even Tampax or Vagisil would sponsor us. Sorry *** LT rolled on Jackie last time and piece of 17 Bracky reported a pocket change violation. We are pussies when it comes to standing up to the ncaa. Every other school tells them to 17 off and eat ****. We invite them in for tea and crumpets every time they come knocking, and give them all the incriminating evidence we can. The have 0.0000 subpoena power and can only go on he said, she said ****. Nice guys always get 17ed.
Hey, you're the one that brought up Alabama TO ME
Likely because you had no decent come back for me saying that Bracky is a major problem for us in recruiting.
YOU then said that Bracky is "not the difference between us and Alabama". Well guess what? NO ****. And in no way shape or form an I saying that if we get rid of Bracky that we would recruit like Alabama.
However, that said- can we get most of the top players in Mississippi without Bracky like Dan wants to? Probably so and we would probably have a LOT more success doing so. Doing that translates into higher recruiting rankings and recruiting better. But until we do that, we're stuck having to live off of guys that are mostly diamonds in the rough- which is fine, but until there are changes with Brett, we will not recruit better as far as the recruiting web sites go.
We are simply not playing the same game as everyone else.
Likely because you had no decent come back for me saying that Bracky is a major problem for us in recruiting.
YOU then said that Bracky is "not the difference between us and Alabama". Well guess what? NO ****. And in no way shape or form an I saying that if we get rid of Bracky that we would recruit like Alabama.
However, that said- can we get most of the top players in Mississippi without Bracky like Dan wants to? Probably so and we would probably have a LOT more success doing so. Doing that translates into higher recruiting rankings and recruiting better. But until we do that, we're stuck having to live off of guys that are mostly diamonds in the rough- which is fine, but until there are changes with Brett, we will not recruit better as far as the recruiting web sites go.
We are simply not playing the same game as everyone else.
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