Another Mullen Debate: Recruiting Philosphy

[Todd4State]

Because they don't know how to play the game

why would our compliance department cause us to lose people that we shouldn't?

Times have changed. You have some kids that come from poor backgrounds that need money- and I really believe that's why most of these kids have their hands out. I think the NCAA and the SEC has started to understand that, but instead of handing out lump sums of money/stipends to these kids, which has actually been discussed mind you, it's just cheaper and easier to let school's boosters do it and then turn a blind eye.

At the same time, they have to operate under the guise of amateur athletics and it being about academics and sportsmanship and all of that other politically correct BS. So, because of that, they have to have rules that basically say that they don't promote boosters paying players and all of that- and if something comes up, they have to at least half assedly look like they are trying to enforce the rules.

So if someone like DeVinner comes along and says that we are paying Will Redmond and we prove that he is a liar which the crappiest detective in Louisville, Mississippi could have proven, then the NCAA says- oh, OK. Move along.

But when we have our damn compliance director trying to investigate and find other things that we did wrong- then the NCAA doesn't really have a choice but to accept and enforce penalties.

What Bracky did would be like a police officer pulling someone over for a tail light being out and that person making sure that they tell the cop that they are intoxicated and have 20 pounds of pot in the trunk next to the dead hooker.

So, to answer your question- a lot of those players that need extra financial help- if they know that there is a risk that they are going to go to MSU and lose a year and a half of eligibility and have to pay back 11K because the compliance staff won't support or back you or at the very least hire you some crappy ambulance chasing lawyer why would you risk that? Or would you go somewhere like Auburn where they would actually stand up for you?

So, I don't think Bracky is a bad person or intentionally hurts MSU. I think he is incompetent at his job, and unfortunately that causes us harm.

 

[Todd4State]

Rule number one of recruiting is not to talk about playing the game

this is why we cant have nice things.

In a public place.

 

[Todd4State]

No- they both have compliance directors that know what they are doing

Auburn football, Kentucky basketball live in the grey areas. They always have, always will. But if you think Bracky Britt is all that stands between us and UK Basketball/Calipari you're wrong.

We got caught red handed with a booster, a player, and a coach. Then the coach lied to the NCAA. Out of all of that we got hit with 2 schollys, fired a young coach, lost some OVs, and Redmond lost a year. It could have been worse.

We don't.

Why is there all of this grandiosity about "well, if we get rid of Bracky, we won't be Alabama football or Kentucky basketball" coming from? I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying we wouldn't be on probation right now and we would be recruiting to our full potential- which is NOT Alabama football or Kentucky basketball level. I'm talking about getting 10-12 of the top fifteen football players in Mississippi.

Heck, Ole Miss compliance just had Incarcerated Bob's twitter shut down a couple of days ago, and he is full of BS. That's how compliance is supposed to be. We allow reporters to bash us left and right and no one at MSU does anything about it. And I'm talking about BEAT writers.

You don't think Auburn got caught red handed with Cam Newton? You think that they are telling the truth on all of that? You think Auburn was living in a gray area when they were on probation in the early 1990's? They pretty much told the NCAA that they didn't know it was wrong to take money and they actually got off. They don't live in a gray area. They know what the hell they are doing.

 

[Arloguthrie]

Heck, Ole Miss compliance just had Incarcerated Bob's twitter shut down a couple of days ago, and he is full of BS. That's how compliance is supposed to be.

I realize this fits into the narrative some of you want to believe, but since it's been documented on multiple occasions that IB is a complete fraud, why would you believe him when he says that UM had his twitter account shut down? This guy claims he's the one who had IB shut down for calling him a child molester, although I'm sure he's just a Bear pawn.
https://twitter.com/NFLDraftMonster (June 29 @2:03 p.m.)
https://twitter.com/NFLDraftMonster/status/351080457586237440/photo/1

 

[Heawww]

So you think Bracky is the difference in us and who, Ole Miss? There isn't much difference there anyway. **** I still think we have an overall most talented roster than they do.

Bracky Brett is just a minor issue in this debate. The whole thing is just over your head.

 

[57stratdawg]

Stricklin sets the tone for our relationship with the NCAA - not Bracky Britt. It's the same when people complain about Les Keoning's offense when in reality Mullen has full control. We will never be a program that "is recruiting up to its full potential" with Stricklin calling the shots. We would have hired Kenny Payne if that was where Stricklin wanted our athletic program to be.

Who knows specifically what dirt the NCAA had on Auburn. You don't, and neither do I. I will say they didnt have the handler involved (Devinner) coming forward and a coach caught in a lie.

Youre post reminds me of a guy that gets caught cheating on his wife, and then gets pissed at the person who told on him. Or the kid at Bonnaroo that gets arrested for pot, and his defense is "so, everyone had it!"

I agree with you. I wish we didn't have a compliance director at all, I wish it was outsourced to a law firm in NYC named Greenberg, Stein, and Worcheski. But reality is, as long as Stricklin is calling the shots, we're going to be a completely "open book" program with regards to NCAA compliance.

 

[Todd4State]

Yes Ole Miss

So you think Bracky is the difference in us and who, Ole Miss? There isn't much difference there anyway. **** I still think we have an overall most talented roster than they do.

Bracky Brett is just a minor issue in this debate. The whole thing is just over your head.

As well as Arkansas, South Carolina, maybe even Tennessee at this time, Kentucky. That's who we are on par with from a recruiting stand point.


You are right- there is not much of a difference there in my opinion as well, which is why when you add a CJ Johnson or two every year to OUR side- it makes a BIG difference in our favor.

Keep telling yourself that I'm in over my head.

 

[Todd4State]

And who do you think Stricklin gets advice

Stricklin sets the tone for our relationship with the NCAA - not Bracky Britt. It's the same when people complain about Les Keoning's offense when in reality Mullen has full control. We will never be a program that "is recruiting up to its full potential" with Stricklin calling the shots. We would have hired Kenny Payne if that was where Stricklin wanted our athletic program to be.

Who knows specifically what dirt the NCAA had on Auburn. You don't, and neither do I. I will say they didnt have the handler involved (Devinner) coming forward and a coach caught in a lie.

Youre post reminds me of a guy that gets caught cheating on his wife, and then gets pissed at the person who told on him. Or the kid at Bonnaroo that gets arrested for pot, and his defense is "so, everyone had it!"

I agree with you. I wish we didn't have a compliance director at all, I wish it was outsourced to a law firm in NYC named Greenberg, Stein, and Worcheski. But reality is, as long as Stricklin is calling the shots, we're going to be a completely "open book" program with regards to NCAA compliance.

from as far as handling compliance issues? Do you not think he asks Brett how to best handle something? I sincerely hope that Scott learned something from all of this and makes changes as necessary, and he deserves a chance to do so. Dan was recruiting like this when Byrne was the AD too.

The NCAA apparently doesn't have any dirt on Auburn over Cam Newton. Why? Again, their compliance dept. did it's job.

And what does Kenny Payne have to do with any of this? Do you really think when he was interviewed that he told Scott- hey, you know how I'm going to get players? I'm going to cheat my *** off? Don't you think it's interesting that Payne also hasn't been hired by anyone else despite the fact that he has apparently is somehow a superior coach to Rick Ray in the opinion of sixpackspeak? And I'll be honest- I think Rick Ray is a pretty good coach. He wasn't a sexy hire, but he's not bad.

 

[dawgstudent]

I don't think the consensus on sixpackspeak is that Kenny Payne is superior to Rick Ray. Don't know where you got that.

 

[boatsandhoes]

^^^this. We have too many goody two shoes to get er done.

 

[Heawww]

So you're saying we should blatantly cheat. OK. Think about how mfing STUPID you sound right now.

Until the NCAA changes the rules, you can't pay players, dipshit. Should they change that rule? Maybe, but that's a different discussion altogether.

 

[Shamoan]

its no singular problem with recruiting. its a combination of compliance, difficult to recruit here, teams playing "the game" considerably better than we do, among other things. i have heard bracky being a problem for a long time, long enough to lend it some credence. one thing is for sure, we continue to make the same mistakes and burning bridges as we go. if that is on bracky, i think he has to go. we look like complete fools and if outsourcing our compliance MIGHT fix things, its worth a shot. one thing is certain, being unsure about what the problem is or arguing about the problem without actually addressing the problem will never get it solved. it sounds like we need some experienced hands to root the problem out and get it fixed. we are making rookie mistakes again and again, and its getting tired.

 

[Todd4State]

I'm not saying we should "blatantly" cheat

So you're saying we should blatantly cheat. OK. Think about how mfing STUPID you sound right now.

Until the NCAA changes the rules, you can't pay players, dipshit. Should they change that rule? Maybe, but that's a different discussion altogether.

I'm saying we should defend oursleves when accused of cheating rather than turn ourselves in. Actually, being too blatant is not playing the game the right way either.

 

[Todd4State]

Look through the sixpack archives

I don't think the consensus on sixpackspeak is that Kenny Payne is superior to Rick Ray. Don't know where you got that.

There were a lot of people that thought that Scott should have hired Payne. Whether it was a consensus or not, I don't know- but I do know it was a popular opinion amongst State fans.

 

[121Josey]

i didnt say he was recruiting like a beast, i said based off what we deserve (a la, we are not a top 25 program), he is recruiting like a beast. there is a clear and concise difference between the two. if you need that broken down any further, i am saying that based off where we rank as an overall program, we should have (based off our history, sub .500 win %, facilities prior to this year, etc) we should be happy to break in the top 40 ANY year. there are some publications that rank us in the high 80's or low 90's when comparing us to our fellow ncaa fooball schools. i sure as hell dont want the 88th ranked class....all that to say, we have certain challenges as a university and mullen has done an acceptable job at overcoming some of those challenges. it doesnt mean that we should be satisfied, but we are not a school that get to dictate terms when it comes to recruiting, and some of us act like we are.

as far as the 2009 class, dan mullen was hired december 11th, pernell mcphee, ladarius perkins, chad bumphis, and darius slay (who went the juco rout) all signed with mississippi state AFTER mullen was hired and all were counted toward that class. 5 3*'s and 3 4*'s plus darius slay all committed to msu when croom was no longer on staff, so i have no idea how they could be considered a part of a mans class that wasnt even employed by the university at the time of their commitment. in addition, i would argue that it was in fact his class overall because, as we all know too well, it doesnt mean **** until you get a signed LOI. he had to sell his *** off to get those guys to state. it was in absolute shambles at that time.

Recruiting like a beast usually means something like Ed Ogre-on-esque.

For your first paragraph, we should be at least Top 30 in recruiting every year. Most of the casual people that follow recruiting have failed to realize that we play in the SEC. We've won however many straight national championships. The SEC puts more people in the NFL than any other conference, has more money than any conference, sends more teams to bowls than any conference. Every game that we play is on TV. Tell the history all you want, but this is the new reality in college football. If you want to play with the best and play in good weather with lots of traditions, you come to the SEC. If you need a case in point, Vanderbilt, the perennial doormat of the SEC, who has a high admissions requirement, has put together at Top 25 class recently.

Oh, I forgot about Mcphee and Bumphis. I was thinking about Fletcher Cox, Tyler Russell, Cam Lawrence, Johnathan Banks, Chris White, Gabe Jackson, etc. But nobody with the credentials of McPhee and Bumphis.** But to think that 90% of the people that Croom had committed doesn't sign if he's still the coach is ludicrous (not the rapper). I don't agree with you that it was in "absolute shambles " - unless you say Russell decommitting is that. But since you like historical trends, if Mullen worked his *** off to keep Croom's class together, did he just kick his feet up in 2010 and 2011? If you use the LOI argument, then i'll one-up you and claim that Croom could have pulled an equal recruiting class.

 

[Toddyrebel75]

Sir(josey) , you couldn't be more correct!

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

Rule 7/8 violation**

asg;kh

 

[dawgstudent]

At the time of the hire - Payne was considered more of a name. But now, I don't think anyone except some thick headed people would choose Payne over Ray.

Your original post made it sound like people still want Payne over Ray.