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Anybody else find it a little odd that...

A

AzzurriDawg4

Redshirt
Nov 11, 2007
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I think it is more a show of support for their current coach, current team than anything else.

This season will say a LOT about what Mullen can do on his own. We did not see any improvement from Lee last year, but there might not have been much to improve upon. If Relf takes a clear step forward this year, Mullen will have taken a big step towards distancing himself from Meyer when it comes to QB production. Same thing with Russell. We know Mullen has a great history with QBs, and perhaps it is talent evaluation that has been his greatest weapon -finding guys like Harris, Smith, etc. (something we will only get to witness here when Dak Prescott and/or Favre finally take the field) - but he still has to show he can do it without Meyer. I think he has shown that he can move the ball without Meyer - we all witnessed that last year - but I would say that the jury is still out on QB development sans Meyer.
 
C

coachdaddy

Redshirt
Aug 25, 2010
130
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i used to talk about people who dumped my *** too. first post-17, 17er, m17ers, 17ing. Thanks</p>
 
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Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
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was the extra responsibility the Spread puts on the QB. I just think he was not equipped to handle it all when the going got tough. Lee played well at times, but then would have some awful turnover or something.
 
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TBonewannabe

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
1,262
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Lee seemed to do fine around midfield but closer to the goal lines and he got jittery. You just have to look at the LSU game to see the deer in the headlights look.
 
T

TR.sixpack

Redshirt
Feb 14, 2008
3,268
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And some of the perception of him having an off year had to do w/ him putting up the worst passing numbers of his career against MSU - the only time his passer rating was below 100.
 
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markymark.sixpack

Redshirt
Jan 14, 2009
855
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Coach34 said:
was the extra responsibility the Spread puts on the QB. I just think he was not equipped to handle it all when the going got tough. Lee played well at times, but then would have some awful turnover or something. Is that he sucked ***.
Click to expand...
 
D

Dollabillz

Guest
AzzurriDawg4 said:
We did not see any improvement from Lee last year, but there might not have been much to improve upon.
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Lee was clearly a better QB for our team last year. If you made me choose which QB I wanted, 2009 Lee wins over 2008 Lee. Just like 2008 Tebow wins over 2009 Tebow. Not to mention 2009 Relf vs. any other time in his life. Common denominator there.
 
T

Temple of the Dawg

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
1,015
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Not sure what you are smoking.

His stats from 08: 153-260, 7 TDs, 5 Ints, 58.8% completions, 1519 yds passing, longest pass 41 yds, avg 138.8 per game, 112.96 efficiency, 37 yds rushing, 1 TD (hhttp://www.mstateathletic...008.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=16800)

His stats from 09: 130-221, 4 TDs, 14 Ints, 58.8% completions, 1444 yds passing, longest pass 69 yds, avg 120.3 per game, 107.01 efficiency, 175 yds rushing, 2 TD (http://www.mstateathletic...009.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=16800)

Clearly he was not any better last year. In a lot of categories, he was demonstrably worse. His only clearly better stat was total rushing yards.

The difference last year was Mullen's spread offense vs. Crxxm's smash mouth "offense" (if it can be called that) which opened up room for our backs to run. Well that and Mullen being better at coaching Dixon than the running back coach.
 
R

RougeDawg

Redshirt
Jul 12, 2010
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Through my whiskey goggles, I believe a majority of Lee's ints were balls our WR's had their hands on and were tipped or off a lineman's helmet, bouncing up like a soft toss. Not taking up for him, he was short but I'd say almost half weren't all his fault.
 
D

Dollabillz

Guest
I've watched every game since, well, forever. What did Lee do in 2008 besides help us get our *** beat? 2009, he made some big plays that helped us win at Vandy, UK and vs. Ole Miss. He had us in some other games. People talk about his goalline play vs. LSU, well we wouldn't be in the game if not for him. He was limited physically, so he messed up a good bit, and we never going to win big with him, but he was better last year. Offense was better in 2009. If that's due to the spread, well what the hell, we're still better and it proves my point. Dixon was the workhorse both years.
 
T

Temple of the Dawg

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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especially when they blow a hole the size of Texas in your argument. I will give you Vandy, he made some great runs in that game. UK goes to Dixon & the D. Dixon went off that game. 33 carries for 252 yards & 2 TDs. UK had only 308 yards of total offense that game. Lee was 10-17 for 145, 1 TD, & 2 Ints. There is virtually no way in hell to give Lee credit for the Ole Miss game. That was Relf, Relf, Relf, with a good solid game by Dixon. He did have a great game (for him) against LSU with over 200 yds & 2 TD passes.

However, in 08 he had 2 games over 200 yards passing against UK & Ark & had 2 TD passes in each of those games. Also, he had 5 Ints that year, 3 against UT, 1 against UK, & 1 against OM. Since he played in all 11 games & started 8 that year, that means there were 8 games where he did not throw an interception. Also, he threw 7 TDs in 08 vs 4 in 09. 4. FOUR.

You obviously don't watch very closely if you honestly believe that Lee was much better in 09 than 08. He was worse for the most part. The reason you don't remember it clearly or don't care as much is our running game was so much better that we were able to overcome his mistakes instead of being crippled by them.

Us being better in 09 does not prove your point at all that Lee was better in 09. It proves that we had better coaching & that we were better in other areas of the game.
 
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Dollabillz

Guest
Because you analyze like one. Lee, Dixon, the line, the W-L record (against a harder schedule), the offense and everyone on it, was better in 09 than 08. aGAIN, Ask yourself one question, who would you want playing for you, 08 Lee or 09 Lee? Easy answer.

Lee made some big throws against Ole Miss. A few runs too. You forget the bomb to Oneal Wilder vs. UK? We don't win if not for that. Relf would have thrown it into the end zone seats.
 
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Temple of the Dawg

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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<span style="text-decoration:line-through">Lee</span>, Dixon, the line, the W-L record (against a harder schedule), the offense and everyone (EXCEPT LEE) on it, was better in 09 than 08.
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Ask yourself one question, who would you want playing for you, 08 Lee or 09 Lee? Easy answer.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is an easy answer which is neither 08 nor 09 Lee. If you held a gun to my head, I might pick 08 Lee. What you fail to understand is that he actually performed better in 08 by the stats (which I know you hate when they disprove you). More yards, more touchdowns (both passing and total), 5 int. vs. 14, better passer rating, more yards per game. Did he suck in 08? Yes. Did he suck in 09? Yes, more than in 08. In 08 he had a 1.4 TD to Int ratio. In 09, he had a 3.5 INT to TD ratio. That's right, he threw 3.5 interceptions for every TD he threw.

He did have a nice throw to Wilder. However, Relf is a straw-man argument. The discussion is not about whether or not Relf would make that throw. The discussion was whether Tyson was better in 09 than he was in 08.

He took a lot of the blame for 08 which is, at least on some levels, undeserved. Our OL was horrendous at run-blocking & pass blocking. Our offensive game plan was less complicated and intricate than Tecmo Bowl. So, as a result, Lee's mistakes were magnified. Conversely, you are now giving him a lot of credit, most of which shouldn't be given to him. He was worse in almost every statistical category, yet we won more games. To me, logic indicates that everyone else carried the load and overcame Lee's (countless) mistakes.
 
A

AzzurriDawg4

Redshirt
Nov 11, 2007
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5 interceptions vs. 14 (not to mention all the fumbles/failed exchanges with Dixon).

ARGUMENT OVER.
 
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Temple of the Dawg

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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God, it all makes sense now. I haven't been around in a long time. Probably at least a year until I started reading again a couple of weeks ago. I'm still trying to catch up on all the new usernames, personalities, etc.

Thanks for letting me know this poster is the old Goat. I won't waste my time anymore.
 
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Temple of the Dawg

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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he was better in 09 than 08 since he only fumbled 3 times in 08. I don't know what I was thinking saying he was better in 08 than in 09.
 
I

idog

Freshman
Aug 17, 2010
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ever single one of y'all needs to understand that any adjective pertaining to Tyson Lee and his QB play needs to be of negative connotation. so, he sucked less in 09 than he sucked in 08. not he was better in 09 than 08. good riddance.

off the field this guy was practically the Pope, or at least a bishop or cardinal or whatever, so any positive adjectives are welcome there.
 
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olemissbydamn

Redshirt
May 24, 2006
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I understand you guys not liking what the guy said, but its not that hard to believe that Loeffler may know more about QB mechanics than Mullen.

Loefler played QB his whole life. Mullen played TE.

What was the only knock on Tebow while in college? His mechanics were the knock.
 
AlCoDog

AlCoDog

All-Conference
Feb 27, 2008
5,865
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Why did he let his kid go to Florida while Mullen was there in the first place? Sounds like another parent living vicariously through their kid because they were a big stink of **** themsleves.
 
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olemissbydamn

Redshirt
May 24, 2006
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And so did Houston Nutt. He obviously isn't a good QB developer.

I'm just saying that while Mullen may have coached QBs ata point in his career, it probably had more to do with his progressionto the OC and then HC position than his ability to correctly teach QB mechanics. He hasn't been strictly a QB guy like Loeffler. Mullen played TE, coached WR, QBs, OC, and now HC.

Loeffler has only played and coached QB in his life. I have a sneaky feeling that he probably knows more about the mechanics aspect of QBing than Mullen.It really doesn't matter anymore because Mullen is now a HC.
 
J

Johnson85

Redshirt
Nov 22, 2009
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CowtownDawg said:
Yes, it is an easy answer which is neither 08 nor 09 Lee. If you held a gun to my head, I might pick 08 Lee. What you fail to understand is that he actually performed better in 08 by the stats (which I know you hate when they disprove you). More yards, more touchdowns (both passing and total), 5 int. vs. 14, better passer rating, more yards per game. Did he suck in 08? Yes. Did he suck in 09? Yes, more than in 08.
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You could havegiven 09 Lee an offense where he wasn't asked to do anything and that gave the team no chance of winning and he would have most likely performed theexact same as 08 Lee, ******. If Mullen had been worried about Lee's stats instead of winning, that's probably what he would have done.

Statistically, 09 Lee looks worse, but if theMF'er could have kept his composure long enough to (1) pitch the 17ing ball to Dixon or (2) put some 17ing loft on the balland 09, we're in a bowl game, which is somewhere 08 Lee could have never taken us.
 
D

Dollabillz

Guest
I'm starting to think that Croom was right on one thing - that our fans are blind.
 
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Temple of the Dawg

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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Lee is a total non-factor in the difference in record between 08 & 09. The only difference, and I do mean <span style="text-decoration:underline">ONLY</span> difference is coaching. Mullen transformed our offense into one that actually worked. Our success in 09 was in spite of Lee. The reason Lee played was because there was obviously no better option. Relf was not ready as evidenced by his play prior to the Ole Miss game. Russell was a true freshman.

Statistically, 09 Lee looks worse, but if the MF'er could have kept his composure long enough to (1) pitch the 17ing ball to Dixon or (2) put some 17ing loft on the ball and 09, we're in a bowl game, which is somewhere 08 Lee could have never taken us.
Click to expand...

That's the whole point. Lee was terrible in 09, just like he was in 08. I guarantee you that 08 Lee under Mullen would have given you the same results as 09 Lee under Mullen. Conversely 09 Lee under Croom would have been just as bad as 08 Lee under Croom. Mullen was the reason for the improvement, not Lee.
 
kired

kired

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2008
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Johnson85 said:
but if theMF'er could have kept his composure long enough to (1) pitch the 17ing ball to Dixon or (2) put some 17ing loft on the balland 09, we're in a bowl game, which is somewhere 08 Lee could have never taken us.
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So what you're saying isif 09 Lee had notbeen 09 Lee, hewould've been better than 08 Lee?

Lee was not taking the 09 team anywhere - the only guyyou could saycarried the 09 offense if we had made a bowl is in San Fran right now.
 
E

EAVdog

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Aug 10, 2010
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Tyson Lee is Tyson Lee, the lil' guy did the best he could and played with some serious heart. But he was not that good. In 08 he was steering an old beat up Ghetto sled of an offense, in 09 he was trying to steer a souped up hot rod that he did not have the physical wherewithal to control by comparison. Trying to analyze his play one year to the next is nonsensical.

For his size he was a tough kid, I'll always respect the fact that he had the stones to be on the field with SEC caliber guys. Still wish he would have pitched the damn ball to Dixon!
 
A

AzzurriDawg4

Redshirt
Nov 11, 2007
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It really is that simple. Had Tyson Lee only thrown 5 17ING INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR, the results would have been much different, don't you think?

Seriously, my wife would get this question right:

Pick a QB:
QB A - 7 TDs, 5 Ints
QB B - 4 TDs, 14 Ints

The offense was better in 09, not Lee, and he was not the reason the offense was better - it was mostly blocking, options, and misdirection (i.e., the Dixon counter play that nobody could stop).
 
D

Dollabillz

Guest
yet the players he coached....regressed? Hmmm. You're also backtracking now, saying Lee wasn't worse, he "would have given you the same results".
 
D

Dollabillz

Guest
You are aware of the BS call in the Houston game that would have sent us to a bowl? He made some dumb ones, but he made some good ones too, overall he was better in leading the football team.

Lee did not make those types of plays to win games in '08. You should give up, like you said. And nobody said Lee was the reason the offense was better. Quit making up ****. The claim here, is when was Tyson Lee the better quarterback. If you want stats and losses, it's '08 I guess. If you want playmaking and more wins, it's '09.
 
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