Anyone else expecting legal action to follow?

[LakeCtyNewt]

I'm just wondering where we draw the line. For every controversial call we get from here on out - wrong or otherwise, we are officially opening Pandora's box.

I'm disgusted by the sport I love right now.

 

[jimsavio]

I'm just wondering where we draw the line. For every controversial call we get from here on out - wrong or otherwise, we are officially opening Pandora's box.

I'm disgusted by the sport I love right now.

Which is why the IHSA has the by-law in question in the first place. Not sure why it is so hard for people to understand this.

 

[downersdad]

Unfortunately if you overturn this game, you need to go back and look at the entire season for every team that played. Even an 0-9 team that was wronged would have affected the outcome of the brackets (playoff points) and there by the matchups. So much so that teams that were in say 8A could have been pushed to 7A and so forth.

It's a bad situation, for certain, but as I always say, when you set a precedent, expect to live with the results and apply that same precedent going forward, every time.

Gonna open a can of worms.

 

[RockSoup]

I'm just wondering where we draw the line. For every controversial call we get from here on out - wrong or otherwise, we are officially opening Pandora's box.

I'm disgusted by the sport I love right now.

Which is why the IHSA has the by-law in question in the first place. Not sure why it is so hard for people to understand this.

I don't understand how people can compare the invalid untimed down to the many judgement/controversial/questionable calls that happen in every game every week in sports.

The illegal participation call (2 minutes in same game, TD called back. I didn't see it, can't comment on it) and the intentional grounding calls can be argued about all day and night in parking lots, taverns and social media until we are all blue in the face.

What can't be argued is the fact that the game is over with the intentional grounding penalty announcement per the IHSA approved NFHS rule book. So the continuation of the game cannot be recognized by the IHSA without suspending their own rules as provided by the NFHS rule book. Why can't people understand this?

 

[jwarigaku]

Well it gets better guys. One of my kids just came to me with a twitter page showing the field goal that sent the game to overtime and it appears the football may not have even gone through the uprights in the film. Here is the link to the twitter page and video.

https://twitter.com/connorw23?lang=en

I don't understand how people can compare the invalid untimed down to the many judgement/controversial/questionable calls that happen in every game every week in sports.

The illegal participation call (2 minutes in same game, TD called back. I didn't see it, can't comment on it) and the intentional grounding calls can be argued about all day and night in parking lots, taverns and social media until we are all blue in the face.

What can't be argued is the fact that the game is over with the intentional grounding penalty announcement per the IHSA approved NFHS rule book. So the continuation of the game cannot be recognized by the IHSA without suspending their own rules as provided by the NFHS rule book. Why can't people understand this?

 

[RockSoup]

Well it gets better guys. One of my kids just came to me with a twitter page showing the field goal that sent the game to overtime and it appears the football may not have even gone through the uprights in the film. Here is the link to the twitter page and video.

https://twitter.com/connorw23?lang=en

Saw it already. Bad camera angle. It's like watching baseball on the TV with the off-center camera. Some strikes look like balls and some balls look like strikes. Saw CSNs replay and it looked down the middle.

 

[jwarigaku]

Rock the CSN feed is all sideline. The other thing that bothered me was the refs didn't even check with each other before signaling.

Saw it already. Bad camera angle. It's like watching baseball on the TV with the off-center camera. Some strikes look like balls and some balls look like strikes. Saw CSNs replay and it looked down the middle.

 

[Blue KevIL]

Well it gets better guys. One of my kids just came to me with a twitter page showing the field goal that sent the game to overtime and it appears the football may not have even gone through the uprights in the film. Here is the link to the twitter page and video.

https://twitter.com/connorw23?lang=en

That's not the FG that tied the game. It's the PAT from the PN TD earlier in the game.

 

[RockSoup]

Rock the CSN feed is all sideline. The other thing that bothered me was the refs didn't even check with each other before signaling.

I watched it again and, yes it's another bad angle which made me think it was down the middle but you do see the ball the whole flight which tells me it does not get blocked from view by the goal post if it was indeed wide right which it wasn't from the two videos I've seen.

More importantly, by saying that the officials didn't look at each other implies that they wanted PFN to win. In my experiences, 99.9% of the officials I've seen or dealt with don't care who wins. There's always an outlier or someone has a story about this or that but the major majority are really good and fair at what they do. It's still the same crew that took a TD away from PFN late in a close semifinal game so nothing nefarious happened here. Just a brain freeze at the wrong time that the IHSA could've fixed 30 minutes after the game after discussing it with all parties involved.

 

[ODERTY1]

So what about ESL. no care about how this affects them. huh. I'd love to hear what the point of view will be if they are under prepared bc of all these

 

[RockSoup]

So what about ESL. no care about how this affects them. huh. I'd love to hear what the point of view will be if they are under prepared bc of all these

Damn right it's a shame but I've seen a lot of posts mentioning ESL and the bind this puts their staff in.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Oh I think ESL will be just fine.

 

[ODERTY1]

But if they lose.... can they sue for not having sufficient time. film exchange etc...

 

[ODERTY1]

I agree with LHS94 once they agreed to play the ot . ... all bets are off..... like not throwing the challenge flag

 

[RockSoup]

I agree with LHS94 once they agreed to play the ot . ... all bets are off..... like not throwing the challenge flag

Good for you. Then you don't understand the argument, and rule books, and the IHSA's poor handling of a bad situation. Good luck this weekend.

 

[ODERTY1]

Good for you. Then you don't understand the argument, and rule books, and the IHSA's poor handling of a bad situation. Good luck this weekend.

Morally . .. would you be this dedicated if the call went your way....

 

[LHSTigers94]

I don't understand how people can compare the invalid untimed down to the many judgement/controversial/questionable calls that happen in every game every week in sports.

The illegal participation call (2 minutes in same game, TD called back. I didn't see it, can't comment on it) and the intentional grounding calls can be argued about all day and night in parking lots, taverns and social media until we are all blue in the face.

What can't be argued is the fact that the game is over with the intentional grounding penalty announcement per the IHSA approved NFHS rule book. So the continuation of the game cannot be recognized by the IHSA without suspending their own rules as provided by the NFHS rule book. Why can't people understand this?

Both alters the outcome of the game period. Fenwick agreed to continue to play. All this is valid IF they would have declined play at minimum before overtime.

Now we are having a pissing contest because certain adults want to wipe out their lack of execution in overtime! If you truly thought you were right, fight in the beginning, not at the end. At least declare protest befor overtime starts, not after you lose!

 

[jwarigaku]

Rock,

You are spot on. If you as a coach tell the refs you refuse to play you get whacked with a sideline warning, then delay of game, then personal foul, and eventually you forfeit the game. There is no way to stop play if the refs tell you to play on, and blow the ball ready for play.

#NotMyStateAthleticAssociation

Good for you. Then you don't understand the argument, and rule books, and the IHSA's poor handling of a bad situation. Good luck this weekend.

 

[jwarigaku]

ODirty,

We (rock and I) don't have a horse in this race.

#NotMyStateAthleticAssociation

Morally . .. would you be this dedicated if the call went your way....

 

[LHSTigers94]

Rock,

You are spot on. If you as a coach tell the refs you refuse to play you get whacked with a sideline warning, then delay of game, then personal foul, and eventually you forfeit the game. There is no way to stop play if the refs tell you to play on, and blow the ball ready for play.

#NotMyStateAthleticAssociation

I would rather take the forfeit and stand my ground than cry like a B once things don't go my way! I would have way more respect for the individuals that stand for what they believe in at the point of attack. Waiting to see if I win are lose is a coward act in my opinion. Everybody wants a trophy!

 

[RockSoup]

Both alters the outcome of the game period. Fenwick agreed to continue to play. All this is valid IF they would have declined play at minimum before overtime.

Now we are having a pissing contest because certain adults want to wipe out their lack of execution in overtime! If you truly thought you were right, fight in the beginning, not at the end. At least declare protest befor overtime starts, not after you lose!

Cool Tiger, I get it. The past couple days 3 arguments have developed

1) people comparing it to all the judgement calls made in every game and to just move on

2) your argument where you say bad situation what's the harm, beat them in OT

3) my argument that the IHSA could've responded better to the bad situation

All arguments have their merits and I'm not an arbiter. Life is gray. This is why we have rule books, they act as the arbiter. The rule book says no untimed down allowed, game over. I'm not a Fenwick guy (even though I think I should bill their legal department for my work here) just a guy who thought it was poorly handled by the IHSA. That's all.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Cool Tiger, I get it. The past couple days 3 arguments have developed

1) people comparing it to all the judgement calls made in every game and to just move on

2) your argument where you say bad situation what's the harm, beat them in OT

3) my argument that the IHSA could've responded better to the bad situation

All arguments have their merits and I'm not an arbiter. Life is gray. This is why we have rule books, they act as the arbiter. The rule book says no untimed down allowed, game over. I'm not a Fenwick guy (even though I think I should bill their legal department for my work here) just a guy who thought it was poorly handled by the IHSA. That's all.

In some ways I don't disagree with this but in some ways I do. I think Fenwick was a 100% right until they agreed to play in overtime which tells me that no one in Fenwicks camp knew the rules. After the loss in overtime, they all did their homework and look for ways to still get a victory. That's the part I have an issue with. Had they stood on the fact that the game should be over and risked a potential forfeit I would march with them in solidarity for doing what's right. I don't think IHSA got it wrong simply because you made a big deal out of it once you loss. If it shouldn't have extended past the intentional grounding, don't play past it. Just my opinion on the situation. If we can't play then no one can play. Sad part is some on this board agree with this.

 

[RockSoup]

Morally . .. would you be this dedicated if the call went your way....

You are correct. I did get way too dedicated to an outcome that I have no skin in either way.

If you check my post history you can see I didn't start posting until the IHSA ruled on it, the correct time to fix an unjustified untimed down. Then you get caught in weird arguments and can't understand how others can't see it as clearly.

Then you, Od, make the perfect post to me and make me realize, 'why am I dedicated to having anyone see it one way' when it was the IHSA that wet the bed. Thanks for the realness.

 

[crusader_of_90]

Morally I'm outraged that the right team is not there and a group of profiteers sits idle. They give not a ****.

It's not private school versus public - regardless of who plays I anticipate ESL to kick your tails.

But let it be the deserving tail that gets the privilege of this preordained beating.

 

[pjjp]

It's not private school versus public - regardless of who plays I anticipate ESL to kick your tails.

But let it be the deserving tail that gets the privilege of this preordained beating.

This was my opinion before the second round, then I saw GBN extend ESL to the limit. Further doubt was raised, in my mind, when a decent Benet team hung around. ESL is far from the world beaters many thought them to be. Their offense is okay (as you have posted). Their kicking game is awful. Their defense is lights out. While I don't think either Fenwick or PFN will defeat ESL. I don't see the result as "preordained". Quite frankly, ESL is simply not as good as I thought they were.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

This was my opinion before the second round, then I saw GBN extend ESL to the limit. Further doubt was raised, in my mind, when a decent Benet team hung around. ESL is far from the world beaters many thought them to be. Their offense is okay (as you have posted). Their kicking game is awful. Their defense is lights out. While I don't think either Fenwick or PFN will defeat ESL. I don't see the result as "preordained". Quite frankly, ESL is simply not as good as I thought they were.

Ok sorry - one small thread detour....

I would sure like to see ESL run D vs PR triple option run offense the first week of December after the championship games are completed.

Wonder what the Massey spread would be on that game?

Totally agree on the kicking game. If ESL in a tight game, that could spell trouble for them.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

From Plainfield North Coach Tim Kane:

“It’s been a little bit of an uncomfortable distraction to some degree,” Kane said. “But we played a tough, hard-nosed football game against a very good team and won the game in overtime.”

Imagine the storm MC's Frank Lenti or ESL's Darren Sunkett would take for claiming they won the game and only called this a distraction of some degree?

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

From Plainfield North Coach Tim Kane:

“It’s been a little bit of an uncomfortable distraction to some degree,” Kane said. “But we played a tough, hard-nosed football game against a very good team and won the game in overtime.”

Imagine the storm MC's Frank Lenti or ESL's Darren Sunkett would take for claiming they won the game and only called this a distraction of some degree?

What would you want him to say? He is in a terrible situation not of his doing.

 

[flyers99]

This was my opinion before the second round, then I saw GBN extend ESL to the limit. Further doubt was raised, in my mind, when a decent Benet team hung around. ESL is far from the world beaters many thought them to be. Their offense is okay (as you have posted). Their kicking game is awful. Their defense is lights out. While I don't think either Fenwick or PFN will defeat ESL. I don't see the result as "preordained". Quite frankly, ESL is simply not as good as I thought they were.

What makes you say they're not that good? It may take the offense a series to get it together. But not one team had 100 yards on them rushing. Just look at the back from Glenbard North came in the game prior to the East Side game with 200 yards against Pekin and had over 1500 yards for the season. But they shut him down. So I don't know what game you were looking at.

 

[go dogz]

What?

The game went to OT BECAUSE of the misinterpretation of the rules. It's not like the game was tied at :01 left. It became tied because of an illegal untimed down with :00 on the clock. Fenwick won the game, fair and square, and their victory was taken from them. In so many words, and with their apology to the school, the IHSA admitted as much.

both coaches agreed to the call. you have to understand, the fenwick coach made a mistake for telling his qb to throw the ball. and if you truly look closely at the clock when the ball hits the ground it was still moving. just because they had a bad clock manager does not mean you get to sue someone out of winning the game.
the fenwick coach made a bad decision, he should have had that kid run thru the back of the endzone like 99.9% of the coaches around the usa would have done in that situation.
every team I know of has that play in their books. no team in their right mind has lets throw the ball deep and give ourselves a penalty. just plain stupid.
what was the official time, have the ref even gotten a chance to say, NO.
it is exactly the same situation, if you spike the ball from the shotgun. you lose the down turn the ball over and play on. never should they have put themselves in that situation.
and once explained to both coaches and let to play thru until the end. then hours after the game is over someone comes up with this was not right.
that coach was/is totally unprepared to be a coach in that situation. he should have(if he had any thought of being robbed) put the game under protest pulled the kids from the field. at that point the refs would do what award a forfeit, so be it. once this was settled they can over turn because the game was ended with a win for fenwick. since they played it thru you cannot argue nothing.
that coach should have gone second in OT, not sure why they chose to go first. just plain stupid.
now pfn knows what they need to win. and that is exactly what they did.
now, would they be all up in arms if after ot they were victorious. hell no, there would have been zero talk about the calls. zero talk.
the coach has to take full responsibility for losing that game to his kids and parents.
and any judge worth their salt is going to "take it under advisement" for week. ofn is going to play in state finals against esl. Monday morning judge then can rule on the case.
guess what fenwick is not going to play for a state title this year.

 

[tomloner reborn]

What would you want him to say? He is in a terrible situation not of his doing.

Yes he is in a terrible situation. But claiming they won the game like he does makes matters worse.

"We played a tough, hard-nosed football game against a very good team and won the game in overtime.”

No mention as to the how they got to overtime. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make this go away.

I hope the courts do not have to rule on this. In fact I'm surprised he hasn't done the right thing yet. I didn't think it would have gone this long. And the IHSA is responsible.

As someone else here has stated forfeit the game and become national hero's. Play in the title game he and his team are tainted. A terrible situation.

 

[Robert Maszak]

In fact I'm surprised he hasn't done the right thing yet.

Would you?

What if the IHSA doesn't accept it? Do you still play or not show up?

 

[go dogz]

Yes he is in a terrible situation. But claiming they won the game like he does makes matters worse.

"We played a tough, hard-nosed football game against a very good team and won the game in overtime.”

No mention as to the how they got to overtime. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make this go away.

I hope the courts do not have to rule on this. In fact I'm surprised he hasn't done the right thing yet. I didn't think it would have gone this long. And the IHSA is responsible.

As someone else here has stated forfeit the game and become national hero's. Play in the title game he and his team are tainted. A terrible situation.

hahah, he is doing the right thing.
he is getting his team prepared to play in a state championship against a very good football team. and the constant complaining from outside influences.
is it a shame it came about yes absolutely. but it happened and both coaches agreed with the call and played on.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

No do not play in the game. Same as if you self reported an ineligible player.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

No do not play in the game. Same as if you self reported an ineligible player.

Yah because Fenwick would surely do the same thing.

 

[tomloner reborn]

Yah because Fenwick would surely do the same thing.

After mass Sunday I helped a bunch of guys fill Thanksgiving food baskets for some families in need. Different south side high schools were represented in our group. SR, Leo, MC, StL, Marist. Without reservation everyone who played football at these schools all agreed they would expect their old schools to forfeit the game. Everyone was over 60. Maybe a different generation maybe different set of ethics.

 

[pjjp]

What makes you say they're not that good? It may take the offense a series to get it together. But not one team had 100 yards on them rushing. Just look at the back from Glenbard North came in the game prior to the East Side game with 200 yards against Pekin and had over 1500 yards for the season. But they shut him down. So I don't know what game you were looking at.

I didn't say "they're not that good". I think they are very good. I said they are not as good as I thought they were. There's a difference. They are team with more flaws than I expected that can be exploited.

 

[go dogz]

No do not play in the game. Same as if you self reported an ineligible player.

dude you are in lala land. first you would have knowledge of the that prior to the game. secondly, both coaches agreed to the call and played thru ot.
NO prior knowledge by either coach. so you do not make sense.

 

[flyers99]

I didn't say "they're not that good". I think they are very good. I said they are not as good as I thought they were. There's a difference. They are team with more flaws than I expected that can be exploited.

" Quite frankly, ESL is simply not as good as I thought they were. This is what you said. But it's all good.

 

[mchsalumni]

both coaches agreed to the call. you have to understand, the fenwick coach made a mistake for telling his qb to throw the ball. and if you truly look closely at the clock when the ball hits the ground it was still moving. just because they had a bad clock manager does not mean you get to sue someone out of winning the game.
the fenwick coach made a bad decision, he should have had that kid run thru the back of the endzone like 99.9% of the coaches around the usa would have done in that situation.
every team I know of has that play in their books. no team in their right mind has lets throw the ball deep and give ourselves a penalty. just plain stupid.
what was the official time, have the ref even gotten a chance to say, NO.
it is exactly the same situation, if you spike the ball from the shotgun. you lose the down turn the ball over and play on. never should they have put themselves in that situation.
and once explained to both coaches and let to play thru until the end. then hours after the game is over someone comes up with this was not right.
that coach was/is totally unprepared to be a coach in that situation. he should have(if he had any thought of being robbed) put the game under protest pulled the kids from the field. at that point the refs would do what award a forfeit, so be it. once this was settled they can over turn because the game was ended with a win for fenwick. since they played it thru you cannot argue nothing.
that coach should have gone second in OT, not sure why they chose to go first. just plain stupid.
now pfn knows what they need to win. and that is exactly what they did.
now, would they be all up in arms if after ot they were victorious. hell no, there would have been zero talk about the calls. zero talk.
the coach has to take full responsibility for losing that game to his kids and parents.
and any judge worth their salt is going to "take it under advisement" for week. ofn is going to play in state finals against esl. Monday morning judge then can rule on the case.
guess what fenwick is not going to play for a state title this year.

Dude, did you skip every English class ever offered to you? I can't even read this, it's like Authentic Gibberish.