Anyone On Here Own A TESLA

[Fact_Checker]

Drive better and have better options than what? Keep it apples to apples and we'll see how you rate.

Less maintenance/operation costs, fuel....well, are you comparing a $50K German car against an $80K Tesla? I guarantee you I won't come close to the $30 diff w/ a German model, for example.

Tesla has a motor on both axels. The Model S at $70,000 gas 600ish horsepower and goes 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. Going to need a Porsche to touch that and those are not $50,000. A Porsche is around $120,000 and for that you can get a Tesla Model S Plaid that has 1040hp and goes 0-60 in 1.99 seconds.

Also the weight is all in the batteries which are on the bottom middle of the car and provide a much better center of gravity for driving than a front engine mounted vehicle.

They also get all the data feedback from current models on the road. Since the car is electric they can program the way it drives so the driving experience literally gets updated and improved as you own the car and they learn more about tuning their motors and the interplay between the front and back wheels. Heck the driver even has options on how to program the car to drive. You can tell it you want it to drive like a Camry today and a Camero tomorrow.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Are there any electric top fuel dragsters? Nope.

Formula 1 racing has 0-60 times around 2.5-3 seconds and reaches speeds of ~220-230 mph. Formula E has 0-100 km/h times around 2.0 seconds and reaches speeds of ~175. Formula E uses about 1/3rd-1/4th the power when compared to each other. (F1 about 1,000 hp, E about 250-300 hp equivalent). Once battery and electric motor technology produces an equivalent powered motor, it'll be much faster than gas.


The main issue with top end speed is power to weight ratio. When you get faster, the need for lower end torque isn't as paramount. Electric motors have crazy torque, but less horsepower. But they have a few things that will enable them to be faster in the future that gas motors don't have.

1. Weight - The heaviest part on any gas race car is the engine/drivetrain. A featherweight F1 engine might be 300-500 lbs........a top fuel engine can weigh in excess of 500-600 lbs. A Formula E engine weighs about 45 lbs.

The issue with the electric vehicle weight are the batteries......which are getting lighter and more efficient every year.

2. Size - An top fuel drag racing engine is about 4-5x as big as a Formula E engine. So, in theory an electric race car could mount 4 electric engines (totaling over 1200 hp equivalent) with less than half of the weight of a F1 car......and could mount them closer to each wheel for efficiency and lower center of gravity. Or, once the engines improve in power they would mount 1 really powerful engine.

3. Power band - An F1 car might be able to produce over 1,000 hp but this is only peak hp. It doesn't produce this much throughout it's cycle......only at a specific RPM. This is not so with electric. It's near instant and total power.



It's new technology. So, you're right.....not right now. But it's just a matter of time. And it's mainly a question of battery tech.

 

[420grover]

Formula 1 racing has 0-60 times around 2.5-3 seconds and reaches speeds of ~220-230 mph. Formula E has 0-100 km/h times around 2.0 seconds and reaches speeds of ~175. Formula E uses about 1/3rd-1/4th the power when compared to each other. (F1 about 1,000 hp, E about 250-300 hp equivalent). Once battery and electric motor technology produces an equivalent powered motor, it'll be much faster than gas.


The main issue with top end speed is power to weight ratio. When you get faster, the need for lower end torque isn't as paramount. Electric motors have crazy torque, but less horsepower. But they have a few things that will enable them to be faster in the future that gas motors don't have.

1. Weight - The heaviest part on any gas race car is the engine/drivetrain. A featherweight F1 engine might be 300-500 lbs........a top fuel engine can weigh in excess of 500-600 lbs. A Formula E engine weighs about 45 lbs.

The issue with the electric vehicle weight are the batteries......which are getting lighter and more efficient every year.

2. Size - An top fuel drag racing engine is about 4-5x as big as a Formula E engine. So, in theory an electric race car could mount 4 electric engines (totaling over 1200 hp equivalent) with less than half of the weight of a F1 car......and could mount them closer to each wheel for efficiency and lower center of gravity. Or, once the engines improve in power they would mount 1 really powerful engine.

3. Power band - An F1 car might be able to produce over 1,000 hp but this is only peak hp. It doesn't produce this much throughout it's cycle......only at a specific RPM. This is not so with electric. It's near instant and total power.



It's new technology. So, you're right.....not right now. But it's just a matter of time. And it's mainly a question of battery tech.

I can build an 8 second 1/4 mile drag car for around 10k starting with nothing. What's the cost to do that with an electric vehicle? Electric is the future but that future ain't next year.

 

[rqa]

As it should. But we should be beefing up our energy infrastructure not weakening it.

Energy usage has been flat for the last 20 yrs and has even begun to fall due to better efficiency. We should be securing our energy infrastructure as well as decentralizing it so can’t be used to hold us hostage. It’s very realistic that in the next 20-30 years that most homes and buildings will have the capability to be energy self-sufficient. Several automakers have said they plan to only build EVs as of the mid 2030’s.
GM says it will be EV only by 2035 and Cadillac will be EV only by 2030. Ford plans to have 50% of their fleet as EVs by 2030 and completely converted over shortly thereafter.
Gas vehicles will be around for a while but once no/few new ones are coming online then gas stations will begin to disappear.
The energy grid is being transformed for the future, not built up for the past.

 

[Deeeefense]

Back in the early days of Tesla on their website they claimed that once their network of dealers were established that they would be able to swap batteries in the time of a fill up.
If all EV makes standardized on 2 or 3 batteries and mounting then in the not to distant future you could have stations that allowed you to swap in quick order.

Tesla scrapped that idea for several reasons, the batteries are extremely heavy and the way the current models are designed you would have to disassemble part of the car to get to them. This may have been mentioned above by someone else but the new battery technology including the solid state batteries Toyota is developing will extend the range of EVs to the point where you can travel 5, 6, 700 miles or more on a charge making recharging on a road trip unnecessary.

 

[H. Lecter]

Tesla scrapped that idea for several reasons, the batteries are extremely heavy and the way the current models are designed you would have to disassemble part of the car to get to them. This may have been mentioned above by someone else but the new battery technology including the solid state batteries Toyota is developing will extend the range of EVs to the point where you can travel 5, 6, 700 miles or more on a charge making recharging on a road trip unnecessary.

Well it’s 972 miles to visit my son, his wife and my granddaughter. Not against EVs at all. Just saying it wouldn’t work for me in this situation.

 

[BlueRaider22]

I can build an 8 second 1/4 mile drag car for around 10k starting with nothing. What's the cost to do that with an electric vehicle? Electric is the future but that future ain't next year.

Don’t know, don’t care. The cost wasn’t in the discussion.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Well it’s 972 miles to visit my son, his wife and my granddaughter. Not against EVs at all. Just saying it wouldn’t work for me in this situation.

EVs won’t be the best option for most people for a decade or more. But it’s very possible that within the next 10-20 yrs an EV will have a range of 1,000 miles and drive your to your son’s place while you watch movies and nap.

 

[420grover]

Don’t know, don’t care. The cost wasn’t in the discussion.

Going fast is always about cost.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Going fast is always about cost.

Lol. Yup. I drive a truck, so speed isn’t a huge concern of mine usually. But if I could, I would get a mildly used Porsche as a fun car. I don’t race, so I don’t care if I have have a car that might not be the fastest. And I’m old enough that bragging rights mean little. Kentucky has such great twisty roads that favor a Porsche’ handling. And it’s way more prestigious than a redneck Camaro/Mustang. But to each their own.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

The energy grid is being transformed for the future, not built up for the past

Should be, but just isn't the case. Texas is a prime example. Sharp increase in population and EVs, and the grid is under a lot of stress.

It's a great case study of what will happen if we don't shore up the infrastructure in very short order

 

[BlueRaider22]

Should be, but just isn't the case. Texas is a prime example. Sharp increase in population and EVs, and the grid is under a lot of stress.

It's a great case study of what will happen if we don't shore up the infrastructure in very short order

Texas is a special case. They choose to run independent from neighboring states. So, there was no help from the outside. And many companies inside Texas did infrastructure upgrade following the 2009 storm, several didn’t….leading to this last storm.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/g...ricity-united-states-how-it-works/7219547002/

 

[Ron Mehico]

I feel like this is going back in time and reading about how smartphones will never replace desktops for most people. It’s happening people. Electric cars right now are like the iPhone 3G where pictures were a little blurry and the internet was too slow on it to only be able to check emails. It’s practically brand new technology. In 10 years gas cars will seem ancient.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Texas is a special case. They choose to run independent from neighboring states. So, there was no help from the outside. And many companies inside Texas did infrastructure upgrade following the 2009 storm, several didn’t….leading to this last storm.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/g...ricity-united-states-how-it-works/7219547002/

It's special in their infrastructure but not their struggle. California struggles with power capacity too.

Pure guess, but my guess is those two states have the highest amount of ev ownership and #3 probably isn't even close. Is that the cause? No but it is a contributing factor. Question is how much.

If we don't get our energy situation figured out, there just won't be capacity for total ev ownership. And that energy situation won't be solved by windmills and solar panels.

 

[BlueRaider22]

It's special in their infrastructure but not their struggle. California struggles with power capacity too.

Pure guess, but my guess is those two states have the highest amount of ev ownership and #3 probably isn't even close. Is that the cause? No but it is a contributing factor. Question is how much.

If we don't get our energy situation figured out, there just won't be capacity for total ev ownership. And that energy situation won't be solved by windmills and solar panels.

Texas only faltered due to a crazy storm/circumstances. The 2009 storm was considered a "once in a lifetime storm." And most of Texas re-worked their infrastructure.....but not all. Then, unfortunately they went through another freak storm just a yr or so ago. I'm sure, they'll continue to work on infrastructure. But it's important to note that their issues were NOT due to regular usage of the system.......it took significant acts of mother nature to topple the system.

California's issues are mostly financial. The state gub'ment is broke....and the largest energy producers in the state are broke. They haven't been able to build new infrastructure. So, yes, there is an infrastructure issue in California.......but this is not related to the push for green technology (renewable energy, EV's, etc).....as this issue has been going on since the late 90's - early 00's.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/pol...can be,three major investor-owned utilities (

But most of the US is in fair shape and improving.....especially since 2007.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/activities/technology-development/grid-modernization-and-smart-grid

And although the infrastructure bill hasn't passed yet, the Biden admin is including the energy area in it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-...illion-in-power-grid-improvements-11619550000

And finally it's worth noting that the "added drain of EV's, etc, etc, etc" on the system is going to take place over the next few decades. It's not like we'll all be driving EV's next yr. Shoot, Ford and GM have said that they won't go full EV's until 2030 or 2035.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

You literally just repeated the same statement I already took apart. You can say it 100 times and it doesn't get more true.

10 years or 100, it won't matter because you can't build enough windmills or solar panels to make it all work.

If our nation doesn't get serious about energy, we're never moving beyond where we are now. We can't get serious because we're held back by utopian nonsense.

 

[BlueRaider22]

You literally just repeated the same statement I already took apart. You can say it 100 times and it doesn't get more true.

10 years or 100, it won't matter because you can't build enough windmills or solar panels to make it all work.

If our nation doesn't get serious about energy, we're never moving beyond where we are now. We can't get serious because we're held back by utopian nonsense.

What part aren't you getting? We are about 10-20 yrs before things like EV's become a significant drain on the grid. The grid has been expanding/improving......especially since 2007........and like mad over the last 5 yrs. Solar, Wind, Nuclear, Nat Gas, Hydro, Efficiency, Storage, transfer......IT'S ALL BEING WORKED ON AND EXPANDING. Like I've shown in previous posts.......Solar installation is going through the roof (pun intended), Wind is expanding very rapidly, Nuclear plants are being built and current plants are getting more powerful and much more efficient, Hydro plants are being built, changes are being made to efficiency/storage and transfer. I forgot to mention natural gas. There are >177 natural gas power plants being planned, built as we speak. And the country has several decades to get it done.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...h-us-open-nearly-200-power-plants/2155631001/

I imagine since you used the words "utopian nonsense" that you think that the only improvements are in renewables.....solar, wind, hydro. These areas have expanded the most because these are the areas that had the most margin to expand. Very, very, very few people think that we'll only exist off renewable energies......and if they do it's ignorance. The ENTIRE grid is being worked on from all angles.......and this once again, this is decades before any real crisis is actually occurring.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

I used the phrase utopian nonsense because we could put wind mills up all day long and it still won't be enough. There was a very good reason that had the most room for expansion, because it's an awful return on investment. Every cent that went towards that nonsense should've been spent on actual clean energy alternatives.

In 20 years, we won't be driving the cars; they'll be driving us. They might even be flying us. Either way, our technology is seriously outpacing our capacity for energy production. It's a shame to think that will be what holds us back for the foreseeable future, but here we are.

 

[BlueRaider22]

I used the phrase utopian nonsense because we could put wind mills up all day long and it still won't be enough. There was a very good reason that had the most room for expansion, because it's an awful return on investment. Every cent that went towards that nonsense should've been spent on actual clean energy alternatives.

In 20 years, we won't be driving the cars; they'll be driving us. They might even be flying us. Either way, our technology is seriously outpacing our capacity for energy production. It's a shame to think that will be what holds us back for the foreseeable future, but here we are.

No, wind won't get it done but it surely will help ease the burden on the mainstays of nuclear, coal, natural gas. Same with solar.....it won't get it done by itself but it makes an impact. Not only does it reduce the drain on the main energy producers, but it makes us more diverse.....which is big.

https://usea.org/article/we-still-have-energy-crisis

 

[BlueRaider22]

I used the phrase utopian nonsense because we could put wind mills up all day long and it still won't be enough. There was a very good reason that had the most room for expansion, because it's an awful return on investment. Every cent that went towards that nonsense should've been spent on actual clean energy alternatives.

In 20 years, we won't be driving the cars; they'll be driving us. They might even be flying us. Either way, our technology is seriously outpacing our capacity for energy production. It's a shame to think that will be what holds us back for the foreseeable future, but here we are.

It's important to note that the technology that is improving is not just limited to EV's. It's also occurring in the energy sector. Some estimates put our grid efficiency from 25-33%. If technology enables just a 10% improvement in efficiency, it'll be a crazy improvement. Not to mention that technology makes power plants more productive. And this is leaving out future technologies like nuclear fusion which will impact at some point within the next 20-30 yrs.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Even at the aggressive estimate you mentioned, it still isn't outpacing population growth and immigration especially when combined with increasing use of power by the average person.

So It is improving but not enough to power all the incredible technology on the way.

Adding windmills is complete nonsense and not a dime should go into it. Nevermind the atrocious rate of return. That money and time should all be spent on viable renewal energy sources.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Even at the aggressive estimate you mentioned, it still isn't outpacing population growth and immigration especially when combined with increasing use of power by the average person.

So It is improving but not enough to power all the incredible technology on the way.

Adding windmills is complete nonsense and not a dime should go into it. Nevermind the atrocious rate of return. That money and time should all be spent on viable renewal energy sources.

The same thing was said 75 yrs ago…..then said 50 yrs ago……then said 25 yrs ago. Yet here we are. When is this eventual cliff/crisis going happen?

 

[Tskware]

Meanwhile, while we argue over rate of return, 7 or 8 states out West are breaking high temperature records every day. 109 in Billings, 107 in Salt Lake City. In June. As did the Middle East a few weeks ago, and Siberia several months ago. Seems like we ought to be doing something more than sticking our thumbs up our back side hoping things won't get worse

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

The same thing was said 75 yrs ago…..then said 50 yrs ago……then said 25 yrs ago. Yet here we are. When is this eventual cliff/crisis going happen?

California forces rolling blackouts. Texas had to cut the grid in February and might have to again now. Two very large states literally cannot meet the energy demands of their residents.

That is a crisis and it's here now.

 

[Deeeefense]

Meanwhile, while we argue over rate of return, 7 or 8 states out West are breaking high temperature records every day. 109 in Billings, 107 in Salt Lake City. In June. As did the Middle East a few weeks ago, and Siberia several months ago. Seems like we ought to be doing something more than sticking our thumbs up our back side hoping things won't get worse

Along that same line of thought, when the current President first took office he meet with the joint chiefs and asked them what the number one threat was to our national security, their answer was climate change. The predictions of widespread famine, mass population migration, wars over water and land etc. are of grave concern.

 

[BlueRaider22]

California forces rolling blackouts. Texas had to cut the grid in February and might have to again now. Two very large states literally cannot meet the energy demands of their residents.

That is a crisis and it's here now.

Once again, Texas is a crisis that's temporary. They didn't have any issues until a crazy act of mother nature. You could have 100 nuclear power plants in Kentucky, but if a big earthquake wiped out the grid that's not a problem with infrastructure.....it's a darn Act of God.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...lls-to-improve-power-grid-after-deadly-winter

Ugh, we're going around in circles. No need to continue.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Once again, Texas is a crisis that's temporary. They didn't have any issues until a crazy act of mother nature. You could have 100 nuclear power plants in Kentucky, but if a big earthquake wiped out the grid that's not a problem with infrastructure.....it's a darn Act of God.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...lls-to-improve-power-grid-after-deadly-winter

Ugh, we're going around in circles. No need to continue.

It isn't temporary. It's happening now too just this time due to heat. It will continue to happen.

Supply can't meet the demand and now even more people are migrating and immigrating to Texas. In the short term it's about to get worse, no matter what piece of paper their governor signs. Hopefully they find a long term solution.

 

[IdaCat]

Along that same line of thought, when the current President first took office he meet with the joint chiefs and asked them what the number one threat was to our national security, their answer was climate change. The predictions of widespread famine, mass population migration, wars over water and land etc. are of grave concern.

Not exactly. Although they are on record for recognizing it.

"The military's top officer asserted on Thursday that the biggest threats the U.S. faces are China and Russia, a day after President Joe Biden recounted to American troops during a trip to the U.K. that military leaders told him climate change represents the "greatest threat to America.""

 

[rqa]

Well it’s 972 miles to visit my son, his wife and my granddaughter. Not against EVs at all. Just saying it wouldn’t work for me in this situation.

Current chargers can recharge 50% of range in 15 minutes. You have to stop for gas on your current drive just as you have to stop and recharge. Is an extra 20 minutes per trip really going to prevent you from making that trip?
You’re looking for excuses instead of what you would have to do to adapt.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

My favorite ride is a cougar

 

[rqa]

It isn't temporary. It's happening now too just this time due to heat. It will continue to happen.

Supply can't meet the demand and now even more people are migrating and immigrating to Texas. In the short term it's about to get worse, no matter what piece of paper their governor signs. Hopefully they find a long term solution.

The problem with TXs energy grid isn’t wind power, it’s that the people that put in the wind turbines didn’t fit them w/necessary goods to handle freezing temps. It’s colder in KS and ND…much more reliant on wind…and wind is the major source for energy in the Antarctic for Christ’s sake! TX decided to cut themselves from the national grid so that they didn’t have to fit their grid to the national grid standards. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
There’s a reason those standards were put in place.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

The problem with TXs energy grid isn’t wind power, it’s that the people that put in the wind turbines didn’t fit them w/necessary goods to handle freezing temps. It’s colder in KS and ND…much more reliant on wind…and wind is the major source for energy in the Antarctic for Christ’s sake! TX decided to cut themselves from the national grid so that they didn’t have to fit their grid to the national grid standards. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
There’s a reason those standards were put in place.

Freezing temps caused the last Texas blackout. However they're potentially looking at one now due to heat.

Texas has a very conservative approach to an energy grid but that isn't why it's failing. Just look at California on the other end of the political spectrum. It's also failing.

Of course the ever increasing strain due to uncounted illegal immigrants plays a major part. But in general, neither state can meet the energy supply. It's a serious issue they're facing and it's here now.

 

[rqa]

I used the phrase utopian nonsense because we could put wind mills up all day long and it still won't be enough. There was a very good reason that had the most room for expansion, because it's an awful return on investment. Every cent that went towards that nonsense should've been spent on actual clean energy alternatives.

In 20 years, we won't be driving the cars; they'll be driving us. They might even be flying us. Either way, our technology is seriously outpacing our capacity for energy production. It's a shame to think that will be what holds us back for the foreseeable future, but here we are.

I think you’re severely underestimating the rate of improved efficiency. Just like the building that used to house our IT systems has been reduced to a virtual closet with 100x the capacity. My iPhone has more power and capacity than the entire IT system I managed for a $1billion company in 1995 and requires 1 millionth the power. We budgeted $2500/mo for electric service for our computer systems. Think my iPhone costs me a quarter a month to charge?
As I said earlier. Our energy usage has been flat for the last 20 yrs despite population growth and an explosion in the number of electric devices. Battery capacity is the new frontier where disc drives and memory storage were 25 yrs ago. We will continue to develop smaller and smaller batteries that pack more and more amp hrs of energy into the same space and recharge at faster and faster rates.

 

[rqa]

Freezing temps caused the last Texas blackout. However they're potentially looking at one now due to heat.

Texas has a very conservative approach to an energy grid but that isn't why it's failing. Just look at California on the other end of the political spectrum. It's also failing.

Of course the ever increasing strain due to uncounted illegal immigrants plays a major part. But in general, neither state can meet the energy supply. It's a serious issue they're facing and it's here now.

Their approach is exactly why it is failing. They could be on the national grid and borrowing capacity in times of need.
Good grief! Immigrants drain on the grid is the equivalent of a nat on an elephant’s weight.
As Hs been stated, there is little in common between the problems of CA and TX.

 

[420grover]

Current chargers can recharge 50% of range in 15 minutes. You have to stop for gas on your current drive just as you have to stop and recharge. Is an extra 20 minutes per trip really going to prevent you from making that trip?
You’re looking for excuses instead of what you would have to do to adapt.

How'd you get my name attached to a post that wasn't mine? It's only a short trip to their bedrooms for me to visit my kids.

 

[rqa]

How'd you get my name attached to a post that wasn't mine? It's only a short trip to their bedrooms for me to visit my kids.

Haha… think I started to respond to one of your msgs had to leave mid thought…came back and saw a different msg to reply. It still had yours there. Tried to delete it but it left your handle.

 

[Fact_Checker]

10 years or 100, it won't matter because you can't build enough windmills or solar panels to make it all work.

Actually plenty of sun hits the Earth to power it. The ratio of MWh's that hit the Earth daily divided by the Earth's total MWh of energy used daily is 6,260:1 we need to collect 1/6000th of the sun's energy that hit's the Earth in a day to power the entire Earth, vehicles and all. Also 1/6 of the Earth's power is already generated from renewables. The future you are poo pooing is very attainable.

https://www.worldometers.info/

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Their approach is exactly why it is failing. They could be on the national grid and borrowing capacity in times of need.
Good grief! Immigrants drain on the grid is the equivalent of a nat on an elephant’s weight.
As Hs been stated, there is little in common between the problems of CA and TX.

We don't know how many there are so we don't know what level of load they represent. They aren't the problem, but they are part of the problem in that they're part of an ever increasing population.

 

[KyCatFan_rivals45723]

Along that same line of thought, when the current President first took office he meet with the joint chiefs and asked them what the number one threat was to our national security, their answer was climate change. The predictions of widespread famine, mass population migration, wars over water and land etc. are of grave concern.

If that were true it might be a good thing to stop the influx of illegal immigrants into the country. They are an added strain on our resources. I believe the number of illegals that have crossed the border this year is over 711k. So it's pretty safe to say that number will reach 1+ million before the end of the year. That is unless they put a stop to it.

One million doesn't sound like much when compared to 330 million but that is a heck of a lot of food, water, and utilities being used. Plus many are not putting their money back into our economy as much as they should with them sending money back to their families in other countries.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Actually plenty of sun hits the Earth to power it. The ratio of MWh's that hit the Earth daily divided by the Earth's total MWh of energy used daily is 6,260:1 we need to collect 1/6000th of the sun's energy that hit's the Earth in a day to power the entire Earth, vehicles and all. Also 1/6 of the Earth's power is already generated from renewables. The future you are poo pooing is very attainable.

https://www.worldometers.info/

That's a over simplistic view of power production. Companies don't build generation resources because of MWhs. They build because of capacity shortages. The problem with renewable sources is they don't consistently provide capacity. They mainly provide energy (MWhs). That's why battery technology is so important. Unless that energy can stored and used later to provide capacity, then renewable energy has huge limitations. Even beyond that there are serious problems. From my professional discussions with power production engineers, there must be enough initial inertia to power certain industrial infrastructure, such as an arc furnace, for example. A battery does not have the capability to power a 200 MW arc furnace because it lacks the initial inertia to power it. It requires a high mass spinning rotor in order to keep it running. While technology is improving, there is still a lot to overcome before renewable sources can truly replace fossil fuel sources.