he is in his third season attempting to rebuild a program that had hit bottom. When do we stop saying it is Polk's faullt or Templeton's fault? Just asking. Without question basketball is squarely on Stans' shoulders now that he has been at MSU many years. Personally, I would be considering replacement of Stans and at least would want changes.\ now. One more season would surely do him in unless the outcome is very productive. People rarely mention Richard Williams anymore, but many still blame our baseball woes on Polk and/or Templeton. So I just simply wonder when Cohen has total ownership.
At What Point Is It Cohen's Team?
- Thread starter jbulldog
- Start date
I think it's his team now. Only 3 players from the Polk regime left.
My biggest gripe with Cohen- too many JUCO players. Based on his recent recruiting, I think he has learned his lesson on that.
But in defense of the people that blame Polk/LT- and I haven't seen many people blame Polk for our problems this season- they are correct when you're talking about the long term issues that the program has had. Say what you will about Cohen, but he shouldn't have had to take over a program like MSU in the shape it was in to start with. And that's just a fact, whether anyone likes it or not. Where we are now was seven years in the making. We all know how LT likes those seven year plans.
My biggest gripe with Cohen- too many JUCO players. Based on his recent recruiting, I think he has learned his lesson on that.
But in defense of the people that blame Polk/LT- and I haven't seen many people blame Polk for our problems this season- they are correct when you're talking about the long term issues that the program has had. Say what you will about Cohen, but he shouldn't have had to take over a program like MSU in the shape it was in to start with. And that's just a fact, whether anyone likes it or not. Where we are now was seven years in the making. We all know how LT likes those seven year plans.
He is going to get 4 years just like we have other new coaches. Stansbury got 4 years to make the NCAA Tourney. Crooms got 4 years to make a bowl
Cohen will get his 4 years too.
We sure do get impatient for a program that last won the SECin 1989 (22 years ago)- but are willing to give the basketball coach forever because he won the SEC in 2004.
Cohen will get his 4 years too.
We sure do get impatient for a program that last won the SECin 1989 (22 years ago)- but are willing to give the basketball coach forever because he won the SEC in 2004.
be no better. The way that Cohen's first real recruiting season went with all of the injured pitchers, we were effectively set back another two years. I don't have the energy to break this **** down again, but suffice to say that he inherited a bad situation and the injuries compounded things. If Bracewell and Routt come back strong next year and some more young position players develop, then we can start seeing improvement next year. Is Cohen the answer? I don't know, but I do know that he is having to bring a knife to a gun fight.
I was wondering why he thinks it's necessary for him to interject his opinion about Stansbury (which anyone that has read this board for a week is painfully aware) into a thread about a completely different coach, in a completely different sport.
Just a rhetorical question that implied he never gets tired of hearing himself speak. About one subject. One person. All the time.
Just a rhetorical question that implied he never gets tired of hearing himself speak. About one subject. One person. All the time.
The first sign was the opening season, when we batted out of order in a game. Nobody I know does that, unless you don't know what the world you're doing.
After 3 seasons, batters are still going up to the plate, shaky-kneed like the right fielder in Little League forced to play at least one inning because of the rules, and meekly look at strike threes. I thought he got tons of experience at NW Louisiana and Kentucky....what in the world is he doing?
After 3 seasons, batters are still going up to the plate, shaky-kneed like the right fielder in Little League forced to play at least one inning because of the rules, and meekly look at strike threes. I thought he got tons of experience at NW Louisiana and Kentucky....what in the world is he doing?
Geez. We are 12-4 with 2 one-run losses. So what if it's been a cupcake schedule? No one would have reasonably expected we'd be better than 13-3 at this point. You simply don't win every baseball game you play. No one does. And certainly not teams as bad as we've been the last few seasons.
As usual, some of you are jumping to conclusions waaay too early. Let's see where we stand after 3 SEC weekends. If we are at or near .500, then we've markedly improved. If not, then maybe there is cause for concern.
In my view, the team is far better than the last two seasons. Last year, if you take Connor Powers off the team, we lose about 5 more games off walk-offs alone, and probably another 10 off his production. Last season's team would have been absolutely abysmal without Powers. And the fact is, we don't have him anymore, so making up for his production has been a major undertaking for a team that is not in a position talent-wise to be making up anything.
We knew the hitting would struggle. But now we got guys who can throw the ball. With Cohen's small ball and better pitching, we'll win some games this season. The recruiting will continue to see a boost with improved play.
Does the sky always have to be falling?
As usual, some of you are jumping to conclusions waaay too early. Let's see where we stand after 3 SEC weekends. If we are at or near .500, then we've markedly improved. If not, then maybe there is cause for concern.
In my view, the team is far better than the last two seasons. Last year, if you take Connor Powers off the team, we lose about 5 more games off walk-offs alone, and probably another 10 off his production. Last season's team would have been absolutely abysmal without Powers. And the fact is, we don't have him anymore, so making up for his production has been a major undertaking for a team that is not in a position talent-wise to be making up anything.
We knew the hitting would struggle. But now we got guys who can throw the ball. With Cohen's small ball and better pitching, we'll win some games this season. The recruiting will continue to see a boost with improved play.
Does the sky always have to be falling?
.."at what point is this Obama's America?"
To hear everybody here tell it, it was Obama's America the moment he was sworn into office (which is something I agree with; it was Obama's America the moment he was sworn into office).
Likewise, it was Cohen's team the moment he signed the contract to be MSU's new baseball coach.
I'm sure Cohen appreciates MSU fans rationalizing away his failures by blaming his failures on Ron Polk.
Just like Obama probably appreciates it when Democrats blame Obama's failures on George Bush.
But the bottom line is the changing of the guard happens instantaneously; you have to man up & take responsibility for the **** pile you inherit. No matter how much your loyalists are willing to make excuses for you.
To hear everybody here tell it, it was Obama's America the moment he was sworn into office (which is something I agree with; it was Obama's America the moment he was sworn into office).
Likewise, it was Cohen's team the moment he signed the contract to be MSU's new baseball coach.
I'm sure Cohen appreciates MSU fans rationalizing away his failures by blaming his failures on Ron Polk.
Just like Obama probably appreciates it when Democrats blame Obama's failures on George Bush.
But the bottom line is the changing of the guard happens instantaneously; you have to man up & take responsibility for the **** pile you inherit. No matter how much your loyalists are willing to make excuses for you.
It seems that we as a fanbase like to give the bare cupboard excuse to every incoming coach. It was used in the first few years for Stans, Croom, Cohen, and Mullen. Yet Mullen started wining in year two and then the consensus changed to "Croom left Mullen some talent." Well Sherrill left Croom talent and Stansbury inheritted talent. Mullen showed he could do more with less, Stansbury less so, and Croom not at all.
So far, Cohen hasn't shown that he is able to either. Instead of building them up to be the best they could be, he wrote them off and threw them under the bus. While I have been dissapointed with him in that regard, he does seem to be bringing in some really good talent, and I am OK with letting him have his own Juniors before showing him the door.
To me, the "He has only had two classes" argument is BS though. This is college baseball, where you rarely see a team with a strong senior class. Every year in the World Series, you see plenty of freshmen and sophmore stars.
I agree with Ronnie in that this has been his team from day one. So far, he is responsible for the worst 2 year stretch in MSU baseball since WWII.
So far, Cohen hasn't shown that he is able to either. Instead of building them up to be the best they could be, he wrote them off and threw them under the bus. While I have been dissapointed with him in that regard, he does seem to be bringing in some really good talent, and I am OK with letting him have his own Juniors before showing him the door.
To me, the "He has only had two classes" argument is BS though. This is college baseball, where you rarely see a team with a strong senior class. Every year in the World Series, you see plenty of freshmen and sophmore stars.
I agree with Ronnie in that this has been his team from day one. So far, he is responsible for the worst 2 year stretch in MSU baseball since WWII.
St Louis had the 6th best record in the NL. second in the Central, yet lost 6 of 15 games against the worst team in baseball last year.<div>
</div><div>I think we should wait until we're into the SEC season a bit before we get too worked up either way.</div>
</div><div>I think we should wait until we're into the SEC season a bit before we get too worked up either way.</div>
If he doesn't make a regional by end of year next year, its time to go.
The only way he doesn't get that 4th year is if something out of the ordinary happens (i.e. players fighting in the stands, banging diamond girls.....and getting caught, embarrassing the program off the field of play, etc.).
The only way he doesn't get that 4th year is if something out of the ordinary happens (i.e. players fighting in the stands, banging diamond girls.....and getting caught, embarrassing the program off the field of play, etc.).
You don't get that 4th year if the team is getting worse instead of better. Getting worse is something out of the ordinary. If he doesn't win 10 SEC games, that would make 3 straight years of single digit wins. That's something out of the ordinary. I agree that a coach should generally be given 4 years, but that doesn't mean he has a 4-year free pass to just be awful.paindonthurt said:
You can yell Sacred Heart/Cross, whatever all you want. I'm not saying we are better or worse, but at this point in the season, no one thought we'd be better than 13 and 3. We are pretty close to what anyone with a brain expected.
Plenty of ways to say/show Stansbury has gotten worse over the last say 5 years. I can if you'd like.
I haven't been impressed with Cohen, but he really only has 2 classes on the field (that he fully recruited).
Plenty of ways to say/show Stansbury has gotten worse over the last say 5 years. I can if you'd like.
I haven't been impressed with Cohen, but he really only has 2 classes on the field (that he fully recruited).
But we had almost as good a record at this point last year against a MUCH tougher schedule. All I'm saying is, it's time to start showing at least some improvement NOW, not later. And at this point, I haven't seen it. Maybe we'll all see it in a few weeks.
Not arguing that Stansbury hasn't gotten worse in the last 6 years. But his record even at its worst is a hell of a lot better than Cohen's at his best has been. But the fact is, Stansbury had better start showing some improvement next year himself.
Not arguing that Stansbury hasn't gotten worse in the last 6 years. But his record even at its worst is a hell of a lot better than Cohen's at his best has been. But the fact is, Stansbury had better start showing some improvement next year himself.