Baseball Stadium

[00Dawg]

It's happening.

Fine, then you can stop talking about it. Either enjoy your place as flag bearer for the cause or quietly enjoy your expected triumph.

It is prettymuch that "cut and dried" in the general fanbase. Maybe not among the lifetime seat holders that have never sat in the bleachers at Dudy Noble -- or among the group that has not seen a game from another SEC stadium or Trustmark Park/AutoZone in years -- or bothered understanding a thing about stadium design. Overall -- yes, it is that clear. It's that clear in the skyboxes. And it is that clear in the lounges.

You want me to re-poll my friends, family, and local alumni chapter members? No, it's not. It really is mixed. Check out today's 247 thread if the random invaders here aren't proof enough.

As for your last sentence -- it doesn't make sense.

I was talking about my own concept for how to build a new Dude....shouldn't have included "reworked".

"Renovating" the current structure gets us NO BETTER than the 4th best stadium in the west. Don't care if we spend $30mil on the lipstick. Are you ok with that?

If I did renovate, I'd demo the 1998 expansion (and take a look at removing the press box as well) and build from the bones left behind. You can redo DNF on the same site, keep the Carnegie Hall qualities, and end up with the baseball temple our program deserves.

 

[engie]

Fine, then you can stop talking about it. Either enjoy your place as flag bearer for the cause or quietly enjoy your expected triumph.

OK

You want me to re-poll my friends, family, and local alumni chapter members? No, it's not. It really is mixed. Check out today's 247 thread if the random invaders here aren't proof enough.

Well -- it was 5% or so when I started championing the idea years ago after studying the realities we're facing quite a bit after travelling around the SEC watching baseball elsewhere. It's 50% plus now. Look at the Dudy Noble "plans" meetings in Jackson and Starkville. Does anybody really think it will trend back in the other directions as the Dude's shortcomings become more and more public knowledge?

If I did renovate, I'd demo the 1998 expansion (and take a look at removing the press box as well) and build from the bones left behind. You can redo DNF on the same site, keep the Carnegie Hall qualities, and end up with the baseball temple our program deserves.

And you are left with a closed concourse, outdated stadium design -- that still has terrible sightlines down the foul lines, was built WAY too steep in the first place, with a huge wall behind the plate putting the majority MUCH further from the action, and didn't address the overall sucky experience issue for a large percentage of our fanbase that get stuck in bleachers for 5 innings -- that is, at best, 4th best in the division behind Bama, LSU, and Arkansas. All you just did was make us "comparable" to Swayze and Blue Bell in the absolute best case scenario. I'll ask again -- is it OK with you having the next generation of Mississippians come up considering Ole Miss a very close competitor to us in a sport WE grew up in dominance with? Or is it worth an extra $10-15mil to permanently put them on the backburner again -- at least facility-wise?

What "Carnegie Hall qualities" are possessed in this 30 year old bare-bones remaining concrete structure that you refer to?

This illustrates the basis of my whole argument. How do you overcome this at Dudy Noble in a manner consistent with remaining one of the ELITE teams in the sport -- in a manner that our foul line experience rivals this competitor?

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

I honestly don't think you could raise the prices on baseball tickets ans then sell 3000 additional season tickets like you mention. Is there a desire for premium seating? Sure, but you'd be foolish to try to compare Starkville to Baton Rouge from a dollars available standpoint.

I disagree with this- UM sells more season tickets than us at much higher prices (when you factor in donation requirements). Why? Because they have more chairbacks and better quality seating. And there's no way that you can convince me that they have a more passionate baseball fanbase than we do. We just have to build the facility and people will come.

I know tons of people who would buy baseball season tickets if they could get good seats- particularly recent grads.

 

[00Dawg]

Well -- it was 5% or so when I started championing the idea years ago after studying the realities we're facing quite a bit after travelling around the SEC watching baseball elsewhere.

I bet it started at 19.87%.

And you are left with a closed concourse, outdated stadium design

It amuses me that both Dodger Stadium and Camden Yards have closed concourses. Our favorite baseball stadium architect doesn't necessarily trend in that direction.

-- that still has terrible sightlines down the foul lines, was built WAY too steep in the first place, with a huge wall behind the plate putting the majority MUCH further from the action, and didn't address the overall sucky experience issue for a large percentage of our fanbase that get stuck in bleachers for 5 innings -- that is, at best, 4th best in the division behind Bama, LSU, and Arkansas. All you just did was make us "comparable" to Swayze and Blue Bell in the absolute best case scenario. I'll ask again -- is it OK with you having the next generation of Mississippians come up considering Ole Miss a very close competitor to us in a sport WE grew up in dominance with? Or is it worth an extra $10-15mil to permanently put them on the backburner again -- at least facility-wise?

You like selling professionals short? You're making a heck of a lot of maximum improvement assumptions based on just what you and other internet fans are able to come up with.
Myself, I put a lot more value on other things than you do. I, for instance, want zero bleacher seats in the future. All chairbacks. And as many of them with shade as possible. I could care less about an open concourse.

Meanwhile, remember that we have more to play with than you let on. Here we have a rough sketch taking us back to the 1985 bones, and a (very) rough approximation of where you could add an angle. Throw in angled chairs as well and that could be some very prime seating.

What "Carnegie Hall qualities" are possessed in this 30 year old bare-bones remaining concrete structure that you refer to?

Well for one, I like the concrete look. Two, it means we're on the same location, which also means the LFL has a much better chance of surviving as is. That's part and parcel of not losing what we've built.

 

[engie]

It amuses me that both Dodger Stadium and Camden Yards have closed concourses. Our favorite baseball stadium architect doesn't necessarily trend in that direction.

Camden ONLY doesn't have open concourses due to space constraints in the location. They wanted it in the initial design -- but couldn't get the capacity they needed at the time due to the additional space requirement to make it happen(Ripken years). JMS talks about this at length in an interview I've read. This was also at the VERY BEGINNING of the open concourse movement. That is also why Camden is no longer considered the gem of MLB and is now hovering somewhere around #10 as new stadiums surpass it with relative regularity.

JMS did not design Dodger Stadium. She is simply a renovation architect.

You like selling professionals short? You're making a heck of a lot of maximum improvement assumptions based on just what you and other internet fans are able to come up with.

I'm not making assumptions. I'm telling you what I know. I also know one of the primary architects on the project that agrees with my position 100%. So, there's that.

Myself, I put a lot more value on other things than you do. I, for instance, want zero bleacher seats in the future. All chairbacks. And as many of them with shade as possible. I could care less about an open concourse.

What makes you think you have a right to assign "value" for me in what I want out of the ballpark? Zero bleacher seats is high on your agenda? No bleacher seats is a foregone conclusion. Not even worth discussing. How do you go about accomplishing this "shade" in a better way than with open concourses outfitted with fans and potentially heaters?

Meanwhile, remember that we have more to play with than you let on. Here we have a rough sketch taking us back to the 1985 bones, and a (very) rough approximation of where you could add an angle. Throw in angled chairs as well and that could be some very prime seating.

Why are you so determined to fly by the seat of your pants on this? Is it not clear the extent to which I've been through it all before? How, exactly, do you intend to accomplish your design without having it go 100 rows tall down the lines -- giving the stadium funky "ears" at least 100 feet high that extend WAY above the height of the existing structure?

No -- your design allows us BARELY -- if ANY -- any additional chairback capacity to what we have now if you stick with the current grandstand height to make it look "normal" -- and you just made it completely impossible to view the game from our foul lines whatsoever from beyond the grandstand -- significantly lowering the overall capacity of Dudy Noble and further alienating the "bleacher fans". All for 1500(at most) additional chairbacks.

Well for one, I like the concrete look. Two, it means we're on the same location, which also means the LFL has a much better chance of surviving as is. That's part and parcel of not losing what we've built.

Who is advocating losing the lounges? You can forget the concrete look either way. No matter what we do -- it will have the same brick design as Davis Wade, the Seal Complex, and the rest of campus(built in the last 10 years or so).

 

[Dawgpile]

I photoshopped this a couple of months ago to show where a new grandstand could fit...

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Myself, I put a lot more value on other things than you do. I, for instance, want zero bleacher seats in the future. All chairbacks. And as many of them with shade as possible. I could care less about an open concourse.

Meanwhile, remember that we have more to play with than you let on. Here we have a rough sketch taking us back to the 1985 bones, and a (very) rough approximation of where you could add an angle. Throw in angled chairs as well and that could be some very prime seating.

If you really value "as many chairbacks as possible and make them shaded," starting over with an open-concourse grandstand is by far the best option. We can barely add any additional chairbacks with the current grandstand without a lot of people not being able to see the game.

As for that picture (and I'm really not trying to be rude), but that would be about the most half-assed stadium expansion I've ever seen. Do you want this to be done right or do you want to spend $25 mil. to end up with a goofy looking stadium?

 

[esplanade91]

The game (and by game, I don't mean baseball) has changed since MSU baseball was kang. You old farts who love baseball will come to games regardless, so long as MSU is competitive. The goal is to get Joe Shmo from Columbus, West Point, down the road in Starkville, and students too good to go to games to come sit down and pad attendance stats and look good in pictures. DNF now is fine for watching baseball, but if you add a concourse layer between decks with convenient restrooms and concession stands BOOM! Game over. MSU wins.

Let's not act like DNF is the original location of MSU's baseball field or even pretend that it looked remotely the same 20 years ago. Move the ***** somewhere closer to the middle of campus. Like behind the volleyball complex.

 

[00Dawg]

JMS did not design Dodger Stadium. She is simply a renovation architect.

That's underselling things. Note that they went with a field level concourse and massively wide ones. There wasn't much off the table.

I'm not making assumptions. I'm telling you what I know. I also know one of the primary architects on the project that agrees with my position 100%. So, there's that.

This is all beginning to sound eerily similar to a certain anti-Stansbury viewpoint a few years ago. You even have a parrot or two.

What makes you think you have a right to assign "value" for me in what I want out of the ballpark? Zero bleacher seats is high on your agenda? No bleacher seats is a foregone conclusion. Not even worth discussing. How do you go about accomplishing this "shade" in a better way than with open concourses outfitted with fans and potentially heaters?

You're the one repeatedly bringing up certain facets. It's obvious some things are important to you.
As for the bleacher seats, you've also repeatedly brought up Alex Box. The space for an open concourse could just as easily be the skyboxes instead, and make for less expensive construction. Seriously, open concourses are not important to me.

Why are you so determined to fly by the seat of your pants on this? Is it not clear the extent to which I've been through it all before? How, exactly, do you intend to accomplish your design without having it go 100 rows tall down the lines -- giving the stadium funky "ears" at least 100 feet high that extend WAY above the height of the existing structure?

No -- your design allows us BARELY -- if ANY -- any additional chairback capacity to what we have now if you stick with the current grandstand height to make it look "normal" -- and you just made it completely impossible to view the game from our foul lines whatsoever from beyond the grandstand -- significantly lowering the overall capacity of Dudy Noble and further alienating the "bleacher fans". All for 1500(at most) additional chairbacks.

Angle both the rows and seats. It really isn't that hard. Yeah, you'll cut total official capacity if you stick to the current height limitations and add nothing else. But we'll definitely be adding at least skyboxes, and recent history has shown State fans won't buy up all the PSL seats unless we're really good.

 

[engie]

That's underselling things. Note that they went with a field level concourse and massively wide ones. There wasn't much off the table.

No -- it really isn't. There was never the option of building a new Dodger Stadium. That is what it would have taken to add open concourses. Safe to say that takes it off the table.

This is all beginning to sound eerily similar to a certain anti-Stansbury viewpoint a few years ago. You even have a parrot or two.

Say what? I stayed out of that for the most part until the very end -- although I knew he was a very average coach that would never have tourney success pretty early on and was in favor of a change a year or two before it was made.

But go ahead and defend Stansbury and whine about Cohen's cussing though -- since you are showing all of your other LT-era cards already...

You're the one repeatedly bringing up certain facets. It's obvious some things are important to you.
As for the bleacher seats, you've also repeatedly brought up Alex Box. The space for an open concourse could just as easily be the skyboxes instead, and make for less expensive construction. Seriously, open concourses are not important to me.

Then being the best doesn't mean anything to you. That's fine -- just don't expect anyone that actually gives a damn about passing on what is special and nationally prominent about MSU baseball to a new generation to agree with it. Hence why you don't have a single "parrot" in this thread yourself.

Angle both the rows and seats. It really isn't that hard. Yeah, you'll cut total official capacity if you stick to the current height limitations and add nothing else.

You are making yourself more and more ridiculous the further you try to go down this road. "Angle the rows and seats"? Seriously? Do you not realize that essentially sticks a head between every seat and the action at the plate? But -- hey -- at least we could look through the person to the side of us's head or crow ourselves around them -- while kicking them with our feet. That's way more comfortable than looking at a 75* angle as we currently are** We can build skyward down the lines. It'll be great! Fit right in with the spaceship on campus**

But we'll definitely be adding at least skyboxes, and recent history has shown State fans won't buy up all the PSL seats unless we're really good.

We set our current season ticket sales record(5631) in 2010 DIRECTLY AFTER the 2 worst seasons in modern MSU baseball history. Good thing we don't buy season tickets unless we are really good** Are you going to keep throwing ******** against a wall now?

Which ABSOLUTELY proves my point that our season ticket sales is basically capped currently -- and has been for a very long time. We don't sell any more because all the rest of the seats suck. It doesn't matter if the team is coming off a deep run in the CWS -- or a 9-20 SEC shitburger -- we still sell the same number of tickets within a couple hundred EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Never varies much -- presumably the only reason it varies at all is because of a varying number of naive fans that buy general admission for the bleachers without realizing what they are getting into. And those fans either find someone to hang with in the lounges or don't renew -- and a new crop comes in the next year to do the same thing. The only reason I think anyone buys them at all for the bleachers is because I can't adequately account for 1300 additional season tickets being sold in the lounges once EVERY chairback in the house is sold out. 800 is pretty easy to believe -- but not 1300.

 

[00Dawg]

No -- it really isn't. There was never the option of building a new Dodger Stadium. That is what it would have taken to add open concourses. Safe to say that takes it off the table.

No, they could've altered the reserve level.

But go ahead and defend Stansbury though -- since you are showing all of your other LT-era cards already...

Check out the address on the pic I linked earlier. I hosted one of the original Fire LT sites, although the content is long gone. Ah, memories...

Then being the best doesn't mean anything to you. That's fine -- just don't expect anyone that actually gives a damn about passing on what is special and nationally prominent about MSU baseball to a new generation to agree with it. Hence why you don't have a single "parrot" in this thread yourself.

Ummm....I not the only guy arguing about upgrading the current DNF in this thread. Going back, looks like more individual posters just want to know details about options, whether upgrading or building new on the current location.
I'll also note you seem to have made the assumption I'm wedded to renovation, but I'm actually not. I can handle a new stadium, particularly on the current location. My total price tag is going to be less than yours, though.

You are making yourself more and more ridiculous the further you try to take it down this road. "Angle the rows and seats"? Seriously? Do you not realize that essentially sticks a head between every seat and the action at the plate?

I borrowed the idea from a couple of other stadiums, including Baum. We can play with height differences and whatnot to get an optimal result.

We set our current season ticket sales record(5631) in 2010 DIRECTLY AFTER the 2 worst seasons in modern MSU baseball history. Good thing we don't buy season tickets unless we are really good** Are you going to keep throwing ******** against a wall now?

I didn't say season ticket sales. I said PSL seats. Remember? Like the ones I picked up a few years ago when there was no waiting list (a situation which existed for 3 seasons). The ones that are the reason I have ZERO sympathy for any State baseball fan over the age of 25 who says they've never had an opportunity to purchase grandstand seats. If you're over 25 and you don't have grandstand seats, it's because you didn't care enough to make an effort to get them when we weren't good.
Now, what does that mean for a new stadium? It means it may be tough to sell a lot of premium seating below the skybox level. CL-type stuff needs to be carefully managed to match present and future demand.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Angle both the rows and seats. It really isn't that hard. Yeah, you'll cut total official capacity if you stick to the current height limitations and add nothing else.

It never ceases to amaze me how many fans we have that openly campaign for our administration to do something half assed or less than what we should/could have. Angling seats and rows on an outdated stadium, when we could just start over and build the best stadium in America for a fraction more of the cost? Seriously, why is it so damn important to you for us to keep the old grandstand?

I'll tell you why it's so damn important to me for us to start over:

It helps us financially and would generate more revenue than the current grandstand ever could.
It would allow us bring new fans to the program who could NEVER get a decent seat with the way the grandstand is currently designed.
It would tremendously help in recruiting if we had the best stadium in America.
It would make everyone in the stadium more comfortable while watching the game.
It would allow us to take back the mantle of having the best college baseball facility in America- which is something that I took great pride in growing up, and I'd like to pass that on to future generations.

The bottom line is this- building a new stadium is what's in the best interest of Mississippi State baseball, and that's why I'm for it. Why are you seemingly in favor of holding us back from the best that we can be?

 

[Shamoan]

all this talk about revenue is irrelevant and a distraction to the conversation. the athletic department makes more than enough money to foot the bill. with the sec network, we are now rolling in unprecedented access at facility upgrades. state is synonymous with sec baseball and moreover, its a sport where we have been standouts for several decades....baseball is who we are. its imperative that we continue to foster an environment that allows continued success and as the money era in sec athletics is booming, if we do not invest as our counterparts are investing, we will be left in the dust. if we cant have a premier park with what we have in place that accomplishes 100% of our vision for the future, we should start from scratch to build a park that will. whether or not the current stadium will do that is not for me to say, but we owe it to ourselves to do our damnedest to have the very best and continue that legacy. if we fail to do that, we lose our appeal and part of what makes msu baseball out of the ordinary. we care about baseball and everything we do needs to reflect that.

 

[engie]

No, they could've altered the reserve level.

How the hell could they have altered it to an open concourse? PLEASE explain this to me in ANY form of detail.

Check out the address on the pic I linked earlier. I hosted one of the original Fire LT sites, although the content is long gone. Ah, memories...

So -- full circle then?

Ummm....I not the only guy arguing about upgrading the current DNF in this thread. Going back, looks like more individual posters just want to know details about options, whether upgrading or building new on the current location.

Yes -- you are. There's a difference between wanting details -- and arguing for mediocrity like you are doing.

I'll also note you seem to have made the assumption I'm wedded to renovation, but I'm actually not. I can handle a new stadium, particularly on the current location. My total price tag is going to be less than yours, though.

Great. Keep us in the black and half ***. Not a Templetonish ideal at all. Full. Circle.

I borrowed the idea from a couple of other stadiums, including Baum. We can play with height differences and whatnot to get an optimal result.

Half. ***.

But -- yeah -- it's always great to hire the foremost baseball architects of our time to put in angled seats and "play with height differences and whatnot"...

I didn't say season ticket sales. I said PSL seats. Remember? Like the ones I picked up a few years ago when there was no waiting list (a situation which existed for 3 seasons). The ones that are the reason I have ZERO sympathy for any State baseball fan over the age of 25 who says they've never had an opportunity to purchase grandstand seats. If you're over 25 and you don't have grandstand seats, it's because you didn't care enough to make an effort to get them when we weren't good.

Yet we still sold every season ticket in the house. Every one of them. Your "point" is ****. Fact of the matter is -- people aren't calling 10 years in a row trying to get season tickets and getting put on a waiting list for **** tickets that for 25 years -- they didn't have a PRAYER of getting. Simple reality of life. I'm betting there isn't much of a waiting list for LFL anymore either -- because people give up. But let's worry about whether or not we can sell 8k season tickets when we're coming off 3 straight losing seasons again. That's likely to happen in the foreseeable future -- just like it happened in the 70 years prior to 08-10**

Now, what does that mean for a new stadium? It means it may be tough to sell a lot of premium seating below the skybox level. CL-type stuff needs to be carefully managed to match present and future demand.

Why? How would you know this? Because you managed to get lucky and get a few tickets when we were horrible?
"Welp, football didn't sell out under Croom and didn't come close to selling out season tickets -- so there is no point in expanding the stadium under Mullen -- it is just too tough of sell for premium seating -- let's just extend the bleachers and throw up some skyboxes and call it a day"...

 

[cristilmethod]

I photoshopped this a couple of months ago to show where a new grandstand could fit...

We could have a Croom's Cove in RF!

 

[MeridianDog]

Just a thought.

If we are serious about Baseball stadium improvements we should take out the left field slum shanty town and put in real seating for those who want to buy tickets out there. If everyone wants to see a real "Best in the SEC" real stadium, then do it the right way and get rid of those money robbing outfield homemade bleachers in favor of some that will generate money for the program and the school.

It is humorous to me to see all the posturing that we need to start from scratch and built a world famous designed stadium and leave the left field lounge in place, because Bubba cooked chicken out there in 1996.

 

[futaba.79]

yeah..........

let's kill what makes Dudy Noble unique and special. Let's put an end to 50 years of nonsense. To hell with tradition.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Just a thought.

If we are serious about Baseball stadium improvements we should take out the left field slum shanty town and put in real seating for those who want to buy tickets out there. If everyone wants to see a real "Best in the SEC" real stadium, then do it the right way and get rid of those money robbing outfield homemade bleachers in favor of some that will generate money for the program and the school.

It is humorous to me to see all the posturing that we need to start from scratch and built a world famous designed stadium and leave the left field lounge in place, because Bubba cooked chicken out there in 1996.

I disagree.

LFL is a big part of what makes MSU baseball so unique, and it is arguably the most famous tradition is all of college baseball. Should there be some changes? Sure, but nothing that would kill the atmosphere/tradition- it HAS to stay in some capacity, in my opinion.

What I (and others) want to see is a new grandstand replace the outdated one we built in the 80s and expanded upon with no foresight, and add a student section in the right field corner. We could keep the tradition of the lounge while also having the best grandstand/stadium in all of college baseball- it would be a "best of both worlds" situation.

 

[engie]

I disagree.

LFL is a big part of what makes MSU baseball so unique, and it is arguably the most famous tradition is all of college baseball. Should there be some changes? Sure, but nothing that would kill the atmosphere/tradition- it HAS to stay in some capacity, in my opinion.

What I (and others) want to see is a new grandstand replace the outdated one we built in the 80s and expanded upon with no foresight, and add a student section in the right field corner. We could keep the tradition of the lounge while also having the best grandstand/stadium in all of college baseball- it would be a "best of both worlds" situation.

Exactly.

You start messing too extensively with the lounges -- and you essentially turn Dudy Noble into Swayze. That's something I do not want.

 

[patdog]

Personally, I agree with you. But that's just not going to fly at MSU. I think there can, and probably will, be some changes to LFL, but nothing too major.

 

[futaba.79]

But you do view LF...........

as a revenue source, correct? I don't want to attribute something to you that you didn't write, but there was a poster that was pretty vocal about the exclusiveness of the lounge. I think the point was that holders of the spots happen to be those that were of age when they were assigned. Was that you?

Regardless of whether it was you, IF these spots become the equivalent of skybox or club seating from a price standpoint, it will kill the Lounge. There has to be a way to make it more inclusive not less, and money shouldn't be the solution.

 

[Jacknut1]

Just a thought.

If we are serious about Baseball stadium improvements we should take out the left field slum shanty town and put in real seating for those who want to buy tickets out there. If everyone wants to see a real "Best in the SEC" real stadium, then do it the right way and get rid of those money robbing outfield homemade bleachers in favor of some that will generate money for the program and the school.

It is humorous to me to see all the posturing that we need to start from scratch and built a world famous designed stadium and leave the left field lounge in place, because Bubba cooked chicken out there in 1996.

Money robbing! Wait, what? I wasn't aware that the bleachers were full all the time. Heck, go to a game in Feb or March and see who shows up. Not the grandstand/bleachers folks, it's the Lounge folks (okay the grills provide heat, too). LFL carries MSU baseball until warm weather arrives! You want some outfield box you can put it in right field and leave LFL alone!

I personally don't care if they do a major reno or start from scratch. I do think the location should not be changed, however.

 

[godlluB]

Money robbing! Wait, what? I wasn't aware that the bleachers were full all the time. Heck, go to a game in Feb or March and see who shows up. Not the grandstand/bleachers folks, it's the Lounge folks (okay the grills provide heat, too). LFL carries MSU baseball until warm weather arrives! You want some outfield box you can put it in right field and leave LFL alone!

I was right there with you until the last sentence. Come out in late February when the wind is blowing and it's cold as hell, and see who is there...the loungers. I'd argue that the right field (where I am), is usually much more active than the left field during most of this time. Although, if you want boxes out there, put them behind the current outer fence in Right Field, or behind the walkway in Left, and leave front rows alone.

There seems to be a general feeling of late to screw the average Joe and maximize revenue in all things athletic. Well, as Jacknut says above, the average Joes in the outfield help carry the team for most of the season until the wealthy folks decide to show up for Super Bulldog Weekend and the Regionals. The biggest problem with the atmosphere at DNF are all of the empty chair backs and sky boxes. Sure, they are generating revenue, but they aren't doing much for the game day atmosphere. Want to make it better? Figure out a way to make those people show up, or give up their fancy seats to those who will.

 

[Jacknut1]

I was right there with you until the last sentence. Come out in late February when the wind is blowing and it's cold as hell, and see who is there...the loungers. I'd argue that the right field (where I am), is usually much more active than the left field during most of this time. Although, if you want boxes out there, put them behind the current outer fence in Right Field, or behind the walkway in Left, and leave front rows alone.

There seems to be a general feeling of late to screw the average Joe and maximize revenue in all things athletic. Well, as Jacknut says above, the average Joes in the outfield help carry the team for most of the season until the wealthy folks decide to show up for Super Bulldog Weekend and the Regionals. The biggest problem with the atmosphere at DNF are all of the empty chair backs and sky boxes. Sure, they are generating revenue, but they aren't doing much for the game day atmosphere. Want to make it better? Figure out a way to make those people show up, or give up their fancy seats to those who will.

You're right. To me, LFL is a term that really encompasses the whole outfield lounge, but I didn't realize there was much in far right field so I apologize for that.

 

[engie]

as a revenue source, correct? I don't want to attribute something to you that you didn't write, but there was a poster that was pretty vocal about the exclusiveness of the lounge. I think the point was that holders of the spots happen to be those that were of age when they were assigned. Was that you?

Regardless of whether it was you, IF these spots become the equivalent of skybox or club seating from a price standpoint, it will kill the Lounge. There has to be a way to make it more inclusive not less, and money shouldn't be the solution.

I argue that it needs to be a source of revenue, yes. I also argue against the exclusivity of the outfield as currently configured with no real student section and/or young alumni section.

I have never advocated greatly changing or getting rid of the lounges. I've advocated raising prices -- and modifying(read--lowering) 2-4 of them in right in order to allow berms for a dedicated student/alumni section to be build above and behind them on the hill. Thus giving everyone a place to enjoy the outfield in one way or another.

I'm not arguing that lounges need to be charged outlandishly or similarly to skyboxes. But they are premium seating that allow a unique experience in all of college baseball. That should go for alot more that what basically amounts to $1-2/ticket/lounge. Those spots should go for $1k-$1500 instead of the $200ish they currently go for.

 

[00Dawg]

How the hell could they have altered it to an open concourse? PLEASE explain this to me in ANY form of detail.

See the Reserve Level? They had the option of removing that back barrier or building up and rearranging the concourse so that concessions ran along that length and all faced the field.
Instead they only widened the original space.

Yes -- you are.

There seems to be a fair amount of thought that we need a completely new stadium. I'm not plugged in to this planning process at all, but I just can't rationalize any way that we get a completely new stadium for several reasons.

Half. ***.
But -- yeah -- it's always great to hire the foremost baseball architects of our time to put in angled seats and "play with height differences and whatnot"...

I'm just not selling those same architects short. If I'm Scott, I want two options: a new $40+ million stadium, and a $20 million renovation, preferably both on the current location. If things don't go gangbusters with the football price increases, and option two looks as nice as I think a tru pro can make it, I may go that way.
Look, I know you guys want us to have the absolute best and then some, but Scott has always erred on the side of fiscal caution....just look at the how they handled the football expansion.

Yet we still sold every season ticket in the house. Every one of them.

No we didn't. Record sales<>season ticket sell out.

Fact of the matter is -- people aren't calling 10 years in a row trying to get season tickets and getting put on a waiting list for **** tickets that for 25 years -- they didn't have a PRAYER of getting. Simple reality of life.

For anyone who hasn't been paying attention, let me make this clear. I called during the Polk II era and asked to be put on the waiting list for grandstand season tickets. That list was a permanent one, with no need to ever make another call. At the time, the roughly expected wait was 5 years. A couple of years later (as in 2), they called me to say that tickets were available. I purchased them. Other people I know were on the waiting list did as well. That season, the waiting list was exhausted. For the next two seasons, it remained so; supply exceeded demand. Anyone who called had the immediate option of purchasing grandstand tickets, provided they were willing to pay the required annual PSL.
Due to our recent success, the waiting list was resurrected and exists again (or at least it did last year).
One phone call over a 3-year window (or some time prior to that window) was all that was required in order to have grandstand seats.

Why? How would you know this? Because you managed to get lucky and get a few tickets when we were horrible?
"Welp, football didn't sell out under Croom and didn't come close to selling out season tickets -- so there is no point in expanding the stadium under Mullen -- it is just too tough of sell for premium seating -- let's just extend the bleachers and throw up some skyboxes and call it a day"...

One of the reasons the waiting list I mention above evaporated so quickly is because they introduced the PSL. Some State fans were willing to gobble up premium seating at no extra cost, but weren't willing to pay $200 a seat extra. We're seeing a similar issue with endzone club seating in the new expansion. Bear in mind that you want a little extra capacity, so this isn't a killer by any means, but if the reaction some of my cohorts had to the increased prices for existing areas holds true elsewhere, we may be seeing the top of our current fanbase's willingness to shell out for seating. I could be wrong, but for example there's nothing out there telling me that we have a massive untapped capacity for $1,000 a seat baseball club level slots. I know this sounds like "poor old MSU" thinking, but this is the kind of decision that needs real research to steer the design group in the right direction.

 

[godlluB]

You're right. To me, LFL is a term that really encompasses the whole outfield lounge, but I didn't realize there was much in far right field so I apologize for that.

Apology accepted. I also use LFL to mean the whole outfield area, but I'm not sure that everyone does. RIght field has grown tremendously in the last few years. To those who say you can't hang out in the outfield unless you know someone should go hang out around the scoreboard. The hill is steep enough that there are several areas where you can see over the trailers, and there is even a large grassy area behind the right field foul pole where you can bring a lawn chair or pop-up tent and hang out on a first-come first-served area. It's not a huge area, but it does exist, and affords a great opportunity to harass the opposing pitchers while they are in the bullpen (The USCe pitchers politely refused our offer of fried chicken feet last year, even though we fixed that plate especially for them).

If they would move the fence behind the right field area out closer to the road, that area could be nicely sculpted as an area for people to hang out.

 

[Seinfeld]

I'm on board with essentially everything you've proposed with the exception of the LFL. Even if it ends up being relocated to a new stadium, I don't think a thing about it needs to change. It's a spot in the outfield that gives college students and other young people a chance to drink beer, grill some hot dogs, and enjoy a game. It's unique, and it entices a demographic to come out to a game that they may very well skipped otherwise.

I get that's it a popular spot and that truth be told, Scott probably could charge a little more, but why? It may be premium seating to a 20-year old with no money, but I really don't think that it's considered to be a premium spot for a 40-year old with a wife and family. In other words, whatever they ended up tacking on as a surcharge just doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle. Hey, I've been wrong before so I may be wrong about this, but my vote would be to leave the current LFL concept completely alone.