But I still don't think the jury should be out on Stans. Lords knows something needs to happen but I don't think the right move is to fire Stans. In my opinion we have a better chance of tanking as a program than taking the next step of being a tournament team year in and year out with a few sweet sixteen appearances if we get rid of him. He has made us relevant and he has our program respectable on the national stage. Our changes should be made beneath Stans. We can get everything we want out of our coaching staff if we bring in some high energy, basketball savvy asst. coaches...(Shane Power for one). There are plenty of options out there. It's too big of a risk to fire Stans.
Bash me all you want...
- Thread starter bigdawg22.sixpack
- Start date
But I still don't think the jury should be out on Stans. Lords knows something needs to happen but I don't think the right move is to fire Stans. In my opinion we have a better chance of tanking as a program than taking the next step of being a tournament team year in and year out with a few sweet sixteen appearances if we get rid of him. He has made us relevant and he has our program respectable on the national stage. Our changes should be made beneath Stans. We can get everything we want out of our coaching staff if we bring in some high energy, basketball savvy asst. coaches...(Shane Power for one). There are plenty of options out there. It's too big of a risk to fire Stans.
But I still don't think the jury should be out on Stans. Lords knows something needs to happen but I don't think the right move is to fire Stans. In my opinion we have a better chance of tanking as a program than taking the next step of being a tournament team year in and year out with a few sweet sixteen appearances if we get rid of him. He has made us relevant and he has our program respectable on the national stage. Our changes should be made beneath Stans. We can get everything we want out of our coaching staff if we bring in some high energy, basketball savvy asst. coaches...(Shane Power for one). There are plenty of options out there. It's too big of a risk to fire Stans.
Kirby left, and what did we do.....hired George Brooks. This has been discussed ad nauseum on here, but it appears that Mr Rick is too much of a control freak or too insecure to have a staff that knows more than he does about the game. So we are left with Cunningham, Grant and Brooks. If he canned two of them and brought in a staff to help him in his areas of weakness, then I would agree with you. But he's had that chance before and wouldn't do it. Kinda sounds like the Cutcliffe situation.
I was one of Stansbury's biggest defenders until about three weeks ago. This team does not respect him one bit, and once that happens there is no turning back. Our underclassmen are infected with it, and it will just continue until there is a new coach. He has always been a suspect coach, but at least his teams played hard. Now you have a suspect coach who has also lost the ability to motivate his players. Nothing will correct this situation but a coaching change, nothing.
bashing you or explaining for the 2032th time why you are, but you are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. If anything, we are PAST time to make a change. I have found myself wondering if Stans had been dismissed or if he had gone to Clemson, what another coach would have done with this team this season. Regardless, that's an arugument for another day. Today's lesson is that again, you are wrong.
over the last 5-6 year. Defense is consistently getting worse, attrition is a constant, poor decision making on and off the court, and consistently lose 4-5 that we should have won. That's why a change should be made, and I'm talking a complete change from top to bottom. The only thing we have is some divisional banners hanging that aren't worth the material they are down on. Rick's done a lot, but he has hit his ceiling, the program can do better.
Yeah that'll work. We can have all the assistant coaches recruit, organize and control practices, design and implement our offense and defense and then when it comes game time and we need to call a TO in order to get that last stop or setup a crucial basket our coach can just look to the bench and say, "'Hey Shane, come over here and show us that play that we ran two weeks ago in practice. I'll be over here playing Words with Friends with the kids while Meo goes and gets me a Bryan juicy jumbo.' ... 'Daddy, it said "freshmens" ain't a word.'"
Or I've got a simpler idea. How about just getting someone who can do all that AND be the leader of the team. Kinda like that statement "leadership starts at the top."
And another thing, which its always obvious pointing out the people who don't understand high-level coaches and egos, Stansbury (or any other D1 coach) doesn't want anyone else coming in and telling him how to run his program. Most of the time they are so far removed from practicality that they can't see the forest for the trees. Always been that way and always will. You could have Roy Williams and Mike K. on our staff and you wouldn't see much difference in our team if Stans was the one in charge.
Or I've got a simpler idea. How about just getting someone who can do all that AND be the leader of the team. Kinda like that statement "leadership starts at the top."
And another thing, which its always obvious pointing out the people who don't understand high-level coaches and egos, Stansbury (or any other D1 coach) doesn't want anyone else coming in and telling him how to run his program. Most of the time they are so far removed from practicality that they can't see the forest for the trees. Always been that way and always will. You could have Roy Williams and Mike K. on our staff and you wouldn't see much difference in our team if Stans was the one in charge.
...that seems to be the end all, be all answer on every other board! Remember, you said "Lord knows..." ;-) Maybe Rick will have an enraptured moment and get a backbone with his players. He doesn't have one right now.bigdawg22 said:
Posted this yesterday and got zilcho response:
----------------------------------
I'm also pretty apathetic about the MSU coaching situation, keeping Rick or not keeping him, just because I think we can get a better floor coach than Stans but whoever comes in will likely not be getting top MS players at the clip Rick is currently and has been for a while. I mean its likely we get Pollard with Stans but not so much without him. We all seem to want a consistently winning program routinely in the NCAAs but if you look around the SEC essentially NOBODY but KY and FL really has that anymore. NOBODY in the West wins consistently and outside of KY and FL only Vandy has been decent lately and TN but only while Pearl was around.
Its fine if we want to change out coaches but seriously somebody convince me why should we change the head man at MSU and expect any more success than what new coaches have gotten at Ark, LSU, GA, AL, Aub etc., etc? Nolan Richardson, Dale Brown, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, Hugh Durham and on an on coaches have all had success in years past at those schools but they all struggle now. And all in all those schools still really probably have as much or more to offer basketball recruits as we do. I'm just throwing my thoughts out there but even in pretty good years for us we get maybe 3 to 5,000 fans for pre-conference games and maybe 7 to 9,000 for conference games. We sell all our tickets but often the Hump is only half full or less because people buy tickets from several hours away and only go to a select number of games. Is that good enough to warrant keeping a upper tier program that is routinely in the NCAAs? Are we even set up to have a BB program that gets to the NCAAs any more than Stans gets us there (even if not so successful once there)? Would like to hear some realist opinions on this because SEC basketball seems to be in a malaise all around as I look at it.
----------------------------------
While I certainly question things about the way Stans runs the program I still can't figure out why we think we can bring in someone else and have all this great NCAA tournament success that everyone seems to want when nobody else in the SEC is seemingly able to do that right now outside of a couple of East teams?
----------------------------------
I'm also pretty apathetic about the MSU coaching situation, keeping Rick or not keeping him, just because I think we can get a better floor coach than Stans but whoever comes in will likely not be getting top MS players at the clip Rick is currently and has been for a while. I mean its likely we get Pollard with Stans but not so much without him. We all seem to want a consistently winning program routinely in the NCAAs but if you look around the SEC essentially NOBODY but KY and FL really has that anymore. NOBODY in the West wins consistently and outside of KY and FL only Vandy has been decent lately and TN but only while Pearl was around.
Its fine if we want to change out coaches but seriously somebody convince me why should we change the head man at MSU and expect any more success than what new coaches have gotten at Ark, LSU, GA, AL, Aub etc., etc? Nolan Richardson, Dale Brown, Wimp Sanderson, Sonny Smith, Hugh Durham and on an on coaches have all had success in years past at those schools but they all struggle now. And all in all those schools still really probably have as much or more to offer basketball recruits as we do. I'm just throwing my thoughts out there but even in pretty good years for us we get maybe 3 to 5,000 fans for pre-conference games and maybe 7 to 9,000 for conference games. We sell all our tickets but often the Hump is only half full or less because people buy tickets from several hours away and only go to a select number of games. Is that good enough to warrant keeping a upper tier program that is routinely in the NCAAs? Are we even set up to have a BB program that gets to the NCAAs any more than Stans gets us there (even if not so successful once there)? Would like to hear some realist opinions on this because SEC basketball seems to be in a malaise all around as I look at it.
----------------------------------
While I certainly question things about the way Stans runs the program I still can't figure out why we think we can bring in someone else and have all this great NCAA tournament success that everyone seems to want when nobody else in the SEC is seemingly able to do that right now outside of a couple of East teams?
that we were good enough to qualify for an at-large berth.
Yes, there was an SECT win in there that resulted in a second berth, but that was not a good team. They were promptly run out of the gym in the NCAAT. It was much like Felton's SECT win at UGA...it bought him another season but UGA had a very quick trigger with him the next year because they viewed it as a 4-day anomaly rather than a sign that he really had that program headed in the right direction.
1 at-large berth in 7 years is just not good enough to warrant keeping your job at a major conference school, even one with as woeful a basketball history as MSU has. And that's not even mentioning the embarrassing circus that our program has been off the court for some time now. The success of the early 2000s teams have bought Stans a very long leash, and rightfully so, but seriously, his time needs to be up.
Yes, there was an SECT win in there that resulted in a second berth, but that was not a good team. They were promptly run out of the gym in the NCAAT. It was much like Felton's SECT win at UGA...it bought him another season but UGA had a very quick trigger with him the next year because they viewed it as a 4-day anomaly rather than a sign that he really had that program headed in the right direction.
1 at-large berth in 7 years is just not good enough to warrant keeping your job at a major conference school, even one with as woeful a basketball history as MSU has. And that's not even mentioning the embarrassing circus that our program has been off the court for some time now. The success of the early 2000s teams have bought Stans a very long leash, and rightfully so, but seriously, his time needs to be up.
At the end of Sherrill's tenure here, how many of you were saying to yourselves: "We should give him more time because of all he's done for MSU Football"?
The current state of our basketball program is eerily similar to the football program in the final years under Jackie. The players don't respect the coach, the coach can't motivate the players, and the entire program is apathetic.
Both men did great things for their respective programs, but at the end of the day, they both lost control. Fortunately, Jackie recognized what was going on and got out. I don't think Stans will do the same. Fortunately, LT isn't here anymore and I, for one, trust Stricklin to do the right thing.
The current state of our basketball program is eerily similar to the football program in the final years under Jackie. The players don't respect the coach, the coach can't motivate the players, and the entire program is apathetic.
Both men did great things for their respective programs, but at the end of the day, they both lost control. Fortunately, Jackie recognized what was going on and got out. I don't think Stans will do the same. Fortunately, LT isn't here anymore and I, for one, trust Stricklin to do the right thing.
things to dislike which makes this such a polarizing issue and one that is getting worse by the day. Something will have to give, either Stan's makes<div>major changes in his approach or he should move on. Status Quo won't be accepted going forward.</div>
Pretty sure going to final four under Richard Williams made us more relevant than not going to sweet 16 and not making tourney numerous years under. Name one assistant in Stans time that has gotten a head coaching job that was a step up. Give you a hint, its the same number of players who have made it to the show under him, None.
100% agree. The only time a AD should force a coach to fire an assistant is because of rules violations, ethics violations, etc. This is Stansbury's prorgram right now, and he has a right to run it how he pleases while he is in charge. I know this may surprise people, but Stansbury knows a lot more about basketball then Stricklin. <div>
</div><div>Does that mean Stansbury should not be fired? Not at all, if we don't make the tournament; Stansbury should go.</div>
</div><div>Does that mean Stansbury should not be fired? Not at all, if we don't make the tournament; Stansbury should go.</div>
....we will likely take some heat. It will be discussed that he won the 3rd most games behind KY and Florida. We may take enough heat that we have trouble attracting good candidates, and we may have a down year or two until we get the right guy. That's just the way it goes with these coaches that are average coaches. The thing is, our program right now has the tools to be strong. We won't languish for long. We'll get a guy in here who loves our practice facility and Mississippi's talent pool and the fact that you can win in basketball in the SEC and you don't have a rival breathing down your neck in this sport. I would be willing to win 15 games the next 3 years to get on a tournament run after that and actually believe that we have a chance to advance. That sure beats winning 20 and going nowhere, and in the process consistently wasting talent year after year.
You might as well save your energy but it isn't going to happen this year. We will win over 20 again and probably will still go dancing. Bash me all you want to, I am used to it but he will be the head coach at MSU next season.
When you start tellingyour peoplehow to do their job, you're micromanaging and that is bad and a time waster. If you have to tell someone how to do their job, you need to hire someone who can do the job on their own. Why would any AD want to have a coach he doesn't trust to make hiring decisions?</p>
You also hit the nail on the head. I would bet that the odds of doing better with another coach are greater than they are with what we have. Might have to go through 3 or 4 before doing better. How many years would you give each new coach before another change?maroonmania said:
to say that he made us "relevant and made our program respectable on a national stage" is laughable. He has done NOTHING to help us gain respect nationwide. Most of the nation looks at us as a nice little irrelevant program that will be 1 and done if we make the tourney and we will provide some nice drama along the way due to a lack of discipline and coaching.
Babe McCarthy made us relevant and Richard Williams made us respectable on a national stage in 1996. As a matter of fact, while we are on that subject, we are debating firing a coach that is about to be 3 years removed from his last tourney appearance where he fizzled in the opening round, yet while I understand there may have been some off the court issues, we ended a relationship with our last coach 2 years removed from the Final Four.
Stansbury and Bama football fans have a lot in common. Bama fans live off a dead Bear for decades and Stansbury is getting to live off of his "so-called" ability as a recruiter. To listen to some folks, you'd think we will never get another decent talent to every wear maroon in the Hump. Idiots.
Babe McCarthy made us relevant and Richard Williams made us respectable on a national stage in 1996. As a matter of fact, while we are on that subject, we are debating firing a coach that is about to be 3 years removed from his last tourney appearance where he fizzled in the opening round, yet while I understand there may have been some off the court issues, we ended a relationship with our last coach 2 years removed from the Final Four.
Stansbury and Bama football fans have a lot in common. Bama fans live off a dead Bear for decades and Stansbury is getting to live off of his "so-called" ability as a recruiter. To listen to some folks, you'd think we will never get another decent talent to every wear maroon in the Hump. Idiots.
How about let's make a deal. If he is back, you will quit postingfor a year. If he is fired, I will quit posting. I know that would almost send you back to the mental institution you belong in, but we will see who has better info than you.
the lack of respect the players seem to have for Stansbury and some of the on court and off court lack of discipline and lack of class displayed by our recent players are likely to force a decision on Stanbury's future even moreso than wins and losses. I understand that but I'm just afraid some of our fans have too elevated a view of what our program can produce year in and year out on the court relative to NCAA success. And I say that by looking at all the other SEC programs that aren't getting in done relative to the NCAA tournament either. As much as Stans makes us want to pull our hair out I hope every one realizes that MSU has NEVER won an NCAA tournament basketball game when Stans was NOT on our staff. And that includes the 1995 and 1996 runs. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that is the case.
been one of my better employees over the years and the only way I felt I could do that was to have him shake up his organization then I would do it. No pun<div>intended but Rick is a great recruiter and the life blood of any successful sports program is talent. He needs to get back to the basics of discipline, hard work,</div><div>and intensity/focus and he might be salvageable. Just my opinion and it isn't worth much but if I was Scott I would probably try to retain Rick but insist he shake things up</div><div>and address the weaknesses.</div>
Dawgstudent, please save this post. Of course when we make the dance we will be stuck with the same paranoia for another year. By the way coach, there are 3 women's jobs open now for you to apply for. MSU, Ole Miss, and Auburn. Surely a coach of your reputation ought to be able toland those jobs.