Because Rochester has Made 4A Relevant ...

[crusader_of_90]

I'll tell you this - the Althoff Squad is good. Those three sophomore and two juniors who lost in the hoops final last spring are all playing. Very good QB that distributes to all of his weapons and two little running backs who dart and slash for yards when everyone's thinking pass.

Althoff and Rochester seem poised for a showdown in two weeks in Belleville on the most hideous field in existence, but it should be a beautiful game!

 

[Gannicus]

The funny thing is that without the multiplier, SHG, JCA, and Montini would all be in 4A. Rochester would likely have zero state titles. They only won five in a row, because the best schools are forced to play up. That is why I have no respect for their dynasty, because it was achieved by not playing the best teams.

Althoff has a chance to upend Rochester. But they get way too much credit as a program. When you move the best three teams out of the class, of course you are going to start winning.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

S

The funny thing is that without the multiplier, SHG, JCA, and Montini would all be in 4A. Rochester would likely have zero state titles. They only won five in a row, because the best schools are forced to play up. That is why I have no respect for their dynasty, because it was achieved by not playing the best teams.

Althoff has a chance to upend Rochester. But they get way too much credit as a program. When you move the best three teams out of the class, of course you are going to start winning.

One of the dumbest posts ever...

 

[25sparky]

One of the dumbest posts ever...

Did you check his other two?

 

[Robert Maszak]

I would pick Phillips before Althoff to end the streak.

 

[Hinterland]

S


One of the dumbest posts ever...

Why is it the dumbest post ever? I'd be interested in knowing.

For the record, 5 championships in a row in ANY class is something remarkable, so someone saying they do not respect the "dynasty" this entails is, to say the least, off-base. But how can you argue with his point about not having to face 5A teams in the playoffs in those five championship years? Again, I do not see the dumbness you are referring to.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

So come the Sunday after Thanksgiving I can just discount 1A-7A champs because they didn't play the 8A champ? Thats a total large school guy mentality..

 

[WDTT1215]

Well, technically Rochester beat SHG 38-32 in 2013 and SHG won the 5A championship over Montini, so maybe you can give them that one at least?

 

[Secondo1]

And in all of this the IHSA sits back and laughs...

 

[Gannicus]

You are missing the point. Rochester has benefited immensely from the multiplier .I am not saying that Rochester has to defeat 6A and 7A teams to be legitimate. Rochester has had the luxury of being in 4A without having to face the Catholic powerhouses. SHG, JCA, and Montini are 4A enrollment-wise. They belong in that same class as Rochester, but because of the multiplier they are forced to play up a class. Winning five straight titles is a remarkable feat but with the 4A parochial powerhouses in their natural 4A class, Rochester has zero titles.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

They do not belong in the same class as Rochester, even though they have the same number of students in the building, they are allowed to get athletes from a huge area while schools as Rochester are restricted,, Did you sleep during that part?

 

[RJ130]

"They are allowed to get athletes from a huge area". Umm , did Rochester not get some "real-deal" transfers from outside of Rochester? Whether the transfer comes from the town over or 3 towns over, a transfer is a transfer. Did YOU sleep during that part?

 

[MS4EVER]

I don't care who transferred or who they played. It is still impressive!

 

[Oddy]

Of course "somebody" would have to benefit from the multiplier, that's a given, and the reason it was implemented. Give Rochester credit, they whipped up on Phillips last year when most thought they would lose.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

"They are allowed to get athletes from a huge area". Umm , did Rochester not get some "real-deal" transfers from outside of Rochester? Whether the transfer comes from the town over or 3 towns over, a transfer is a transfer. Did YOU sleep during that part?

Did they??? As far as I know, haven't had an impact transfer on the 5 championship teams.. now have the twins this year, but they moved into the district..

 

[RJ130]

I don't care who transfers or who they played either. Winning a state championship is outstanding any way you cut it. I care that the IHSA sees the ridiculous situation they have implemented. There really is no such thing as a

 

[RJ130]

Nonboundaried school anymore. Parents will move their children to any powerhouse football program that they can

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Always looking to diminish people's accomplishments. Winning multiple titles in a row is hard. If it were easy every program would do it.

Stop trying to take away what's a remarkable run.

 

[RJ130]

Like I stated earlier, my problem has nothing to do with Rochester. Winning a state championship has more to do with culture, coaching, and dedication to your program. We all know of many schools that have outstanding players but they never seem to make it to the Big Game. My problem is with IHSA policy.

 

[pjjp]

I don't diminish Rochester's accomplishments. I do, however, find their sustained success interesting in comparison to the targeted schools (non-boundaried) in this "success factor" era. The philosophy behind the success factor is that non-boundaried schools have an inherent advantage that needs to be addressed, even after being multiplied. However, when you look at the results of non-boundaried, multiplied schools, none of those schools has experienced the level of success of Rochester. Montini won 4 5A titles in a row from 2009 to 2012, and they along with SHG are "success factored" up to 6A. SHG "only" won two titles in a row (2013 & 2014). Rochester has won five in a row and stands a good chance to win their sixth this year. Yet, they are not eligible to be "success factored" up? I said this in a previous thread: their sustained success is making a mockery of the "success factor's" limited application to only non-boundaried schools. No non-boundaried school has experienced the same level of success of Rochester's five titles in a row, yet two have been "factored" up, while Rochester remains in 4A.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Because Rochester is winning with what the bus drops off...

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Of course "somebody" would have to benefit from the multiplier, that's a given, and the reason it was implemented.

Precisely.

Stating that Rochester has benefited from the multiplier is stating the obvious. I don't begrudge them their 4A success. I do, however, begrudge the IHSA for the double standard and discriminatory nature of a multiplier and success factor designed to limit private school success that do not also apply to schools like Rochester.

The multiplier was driven by the small and medium sized boundaried public schools (which constitute the majority of IHSA membership). It was designed to eliminate the non-boundaried (read: private) school obstacles for those boundaried public schools to win championships. What those schools didn't bargain for, however, was for ONE boundaried public school to create a 4A dynasty that is approaching that of Driscoll. What they also didn't bargain for was for those multiplied private schools to continue to win titles in their larger classes. I'm sure the majority of IHSA membership hoped that the private schools, once multiplied, would stop winning any titles. And THAT'S why we have the success factor aimed exclusively at non-boundaried (read: private) schools.

And, I just gotta say that I LOVE the ignore feature which keeps me blissfully ignorant of the drivel contained in Tigger's response (assuming he doesn't ignore me also!).

 

[RJ130]

If "what the bus drops off" means "whatever area parents decide to "move to" where a powerhouse football program just happens to be present" then yes, what the bus drops off. C'mon. Look at any big powerhouse program and yes, that includes public schools, and you will find transfers. So I stand by my previous comment that in today's day and age, there is no such thing as a boundaried school anymore.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I have never heard a single 4A fan complain about Rochester winning 5 state titles and suggesting they need to be moved up, its just guys like butt hurt ramblin that hates the IHSA for trying to create an even playing field..

And if Rochester has 15 football kids a year move into their district, good for them, thats the system that a huge majority of the membership plays by..

 

[BretEpic]

They do not belong in the same class as Rochester, even though they have the same number of students in the building, they are allowed to get athletes from a huge area while schools as Rochester are restricted,, Did you sleep during that part?

Perhaps he just realizes how stupid that part is

 

[Gannicus]

Put JCA, Montini, and SHG in 4A during the Rochester run as they should have been. Rochester would not win a single title. They are a dynasty, yes, but only because the IHSA lent them a helping hand by removing the best parochial schools from 4A. That is why they are the only public school to ever do this. The IHSA took the best schools out. Leonard should be kissing the feet of the IHSA.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Assign those schools a district boundary comparable to other 4A schools and then they can go back to 4A...

 

[LHSTigers94]

I don't diminish Rochester's accomplishments. I do, however, find their sustained success interesting in comparison to the targeted schools (non-boundaried) in this "success factor" era. The philosophy behind the success factor is that non-boundaried schools have an inherent advantage that needs to be addressed, even after being multiplied. However, when you look at the results of non-boundaried, multiplied schools, none of those schools has experienced the level of success of Rochester. Montini won 4 5A titles in a row from 2009 to 2012, and they along with SHG are "success factored" up to 6A. SHG "only" won two titles in a row (2013 & 2014). Rochester has won five in a row and stands a good chance to win their sixth this year. Yet, they are not eligible to be "success factored" up? I said this in a previous thread: their sustained success is making a mockery of the "success factor's" limited application to only non-boundaried schools. No non-boundaried school has experienced the same level of success of Rochester's five titles in a row, yet two have been "factored" up, while Rochester remains in 4A.

Don't remember post like this for Driscoll

 

[LHSTigers94]

Put JCA, Montini, and SHG in 4A during the Rochester run as they should have been. Rochester would not win a single title. They are a dynasty, yes, but only because the IHSA lent them a helping hand by removing the best parochial schools from 4A. That is why they are the only public school to ever do this. The IHSA took the best schools out. Leonard should be kissing the feet of the IHSA.

Rochester beat SHG a couple of times

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Put JCA, Montini, and SHG in 4A during the Rochester run as they should have been. Rochester would not win a single title. They are a dynasty, yes, but only because the IHSA lent them a helping hand by removing the best parochial schools from 4A. That is why they are the only public school to ever do this. The IHSA took the best schools out. Leonard should be kissing the feet of the IHSA.

I'm sure that Coach D. Leonard is well aware that his teams are reaping the benefits of a 4A without JCA, SHG and Montini. This in no way diminishes his coaching acumen or the program he has built.

Put those three private schools in 4A and I betcha Rochester wins at least one 4A title in the last five years. What really would have been unfortunate, though, is if Rochester and SHG would have met up in those dumb *** quads that the IHSA thought were such a great idea.

 

[Bwm57]

I have no problem with the multiplier, although you can certainly argue the exact mathimatics applied either way.
I also have no problem with Success Factor being applied across the board to teams meeting the criteria.
As far as there bring no such thing as a non-boundaried school it's a lot harder to move a family or rent an apartment or find a "relative" to live with for four years than it is to put the kid on a bus or sometimes have them ride back and forth with coaches

 

[RJ130]

It may be a lot harder, but it is done more than pple care to acknowledge. A good friend of mine moved their child to a powerhouse program, rented an apt in town, rented out their "real" house for 3 years and then when their child graduated from the powerhouse public school program, they moved back. so again, what does a boundary mean anymore. We are ALL on the same playing field, folks. Let's stop pretending some school have an advantage.

 

[LHSTigers94]

It may be a lot harder, but it is done more than pple care to acknowledge. A good friend of mine moved their child to a powerhouse program, rented an apt in town, rented out their "real" house for 3 years and then when their child graduated from the powerhouse public school program, they moved back. so again, what does a boundary mean anymore. We are ALL on the same playing field, folks. Let's stop pretending some school have an advantage.

Even if we are all on the same playing field some schools will always have an advantage. I will also add that MOST parents can't rent their house and rent an apartment for 3 years. I agree that people transfer all the time but it is not the same. Heck there are some privates that have the same rules but can't attract similar talents as others.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

It may be a lot harder, but it is done more than pple care to acknowledge. A good friend of mine moved their child to a powerhouse program, rented an apt in town, rented out their "real" house for 3 years and then when their child graduated from the powerhouse public school program, they moved back. so again, what does a boundary mean anymore. We are ALL on the same playing field, folks. Let's stop pretending some school have an advantage.

So you admit its a lot harder... but still complaining about the multiplier???

All kinds of advantages and disadvantages... I always think we have a disadvantage over most 4A schools because Mac is right next door, schools like Coal City, Plano and Sandwich don't have to deal with that as much...

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

I just don't get it. What's wrong with Roxhesters success? Should we start braking down every program that has won a title and why they should or shouldn't have?

I've got GBN beating East St Louis in 1974 - discuss

 

[Bwm57]

It may be a lot harder, but it is done more than pple care to acknowledge. A good friend of mine moved their child to a powerhouse program, rented an apt in town, rented out their "real" house for 3 years and then when their child graduated from the powerhouse public school program, they moved back. so again, what does a boundary mean anymore. We are ALL on the same playing field, folks. Let's stop pretending some school have an advantage.

Sure it's done, but you are trying to compare a few kids every year to hundreds or thousands of kids every year and say that's the same.

 

[sixersball]

Even if we are all on the same playing field some schools will always have an advantage. I will also add that MOST parents can't rent their house and rent an apartment for 3 years. I agree that people transfer all the time but it is not the same. Heck there are some privates that have the same rules but can't attract similar talents as others.

From the times I've been in and through Rochester, it doesn't appear to be a town that'd be easy to find a place to rent. I don't know if there are any apartment complexes.

 

[spr8484]

I have no problem with the multiplier, although you can certainly argue the exact mathimatics applied either way.
I also have no problem with Success Factor being applied across the board to teams meeting the criteria.
As far as there bring no such thing as a non-boundaried school it's a lot harder to move a family or rent an apartment or find a "relative" to live with for four years than it is to put the kid on a bus or sometimes have them ride back and forth with coaches

Bwm

I'm not sure I agree with the bus being easier. "renting" or actually moving in district and getting an address within minutes of a school seems a easier sell to students than taking an hour bus ride at 6 am to get to MC as an example. And clearly parents are willing to move districts these days to get their kid in the "right" program. Stories of these moves into public district have been in papers and some public programs activities are common knowledge.

 

[mc140]

Heck there are some privates that have the same rules but can't attract similar talents as others.

That comes down to finances.

 

[pjjp]

I just don't get it. What's wrong with Roxhesters success? Should we start braking down every program that has won a title and why they should or shouldn't have?

What's wrong with Montini's and SHG's success? They are already multiplied. Why must they also be success factored up? If you say it's because they've enjoyed an extraordinary amount of success, why isn't Rochester success factored up as well? Neither Montini nor SHG has enjoyed the same degree of success as Rochester.