Because Rochester has Made 4A Relevant ...

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Responded exactly how I thought you would. Facts are Facts. Montini won 4 in a row before they faced SHG. I am very confident that SHG was the only team in 5A that would beat them both years. JCA was the only other team that could challenge them.

I'll go slow here for you. pjjp asserted that Rochester has achieved a level of current success that Montini does not currently enjoy. He posits Rochester should be subject to the same success factor that Montini is currently subjected to.

You claim that pjjp's assertion is not accurate. And now you claim that if it weren't for SHG that Montini WOULD enjoy the same or greater level of success as Rochester. Woulda coulda, shoulda...is that what you are resting your argument on? Looks and smells like a crock of crap to me.

Look, last year, Rochester lost not only to SHG but also to D Mac. Montini lost not only to SHG but also to THREE other teams last year.

The bottom line is this: Rochester has won five straight 4A titles, and the success factor does not apply to them. The last title that Montini won was in 2012, but the success factor applies to Montini.

Go ahead and spin that with as many wouldas, couldas and shouldas as you would like. If it looks and smells like crap, it's still crap.

 

[Sportsmom901]

I don't understand why they are complaining, cause for every Phillips (non-boundaried school) that's winning, there are many more who are not winning. example: Phillips and Solorio falls under the AUSL family who so called benefits from having non-boundaries and a feeder program to herd and develop athletes from mid-schools around Chicago, Yet schools like Orr, Chicago Academy, Collins Academy an a few others who also falls under the AUSL family have not shared their success and they benefit from the same lack of boundaries and also from that same youth football feeder program. This clearly indicates that boundaried or not has nothing to do with the success of a program. But the school itself and how it hires its coaches, supports its athletic programs, trains during the off season, creates buy-in from the athletes of the program will determine the success of a program. One more example would be the all powerful HF, which is a public school and then you have Marian Catholic which is a non-boundaried private school. HF was able to do the aforementioned as far get good coaches, school support the athletic program; creating buy-in from the kids and Marian Catholic has not yet achieved that so many kids choose to go to HF. HF has even taken many athletes from Marian Catholic by transfer, and we are all fine with that, and we should be, cause kids should be able to go where they feel they have the best chance to get into college with out fear of penalty from the IHSA. but lack of boundary or being private played no difference in the matter. So once again, why do these rules exist. Is it just to be consistent with Illinois, "everyone gets a trophy rule" or just straight out rigging the game to cheat or remove competition.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

And I will go slow for ramblin... Rochester is a closed district that plays with what the bus drops off, thats why they are not subject to any sort of equalizer.. better coaching is not something the IHSA is going to penalize a team for.. but its something for the bitter open enrollment fans to cry about.

SHG even had one of their coaches on another message board saying Rochester is getting transfers... he mentioned two kids, one moved into that district in 4th grade!!!!

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I don't understand why they are complaining, cause for every Phillips (non-boundaried school) that's winning, there are many more who are not winning. example: Phillips and Solorio falls under the AUSL family who so called benefits from having non-boundaries and a feeder program to herd and develop athletes from mid-schools around Chicago, Yet schools like Orr, Chicago Academy, Collins Academy an a few others who also falls under the AUSL family have not shared their success and they benefit from the same lack of boundaries and also from that same youth football feeder program. This clearly indicates that boundaried or not has nothing to do with the success of a program. But the school itself and how it hires its coaches, supports its athletic programs, trains during the off season, creates buy-in from the athletes of the program will determine the success of a program. One more example would be the all powerful HF, which is a public school and then you have Marian Catholic which is a non-boundaried private school. HF was able to do the aforementioned as far get good coaches, school support the athletic program; creating buy-in from the kids and Marian Catholic has not yet achieved that so many kids choose to go to HF. HF has even taken many athletes from Marian Catholic by transfer, and we are all fine with that, and we should be, cause kids should be able to go where they feel they have the best chance to get into college with out fear of penalty from the IHSA. but lack of boundary or being private played no difference in the matter. So once again, why do these rules exist. Is it just to be consistent with Illinois, "everyone gets a trophy rule" or just straight out rigging the game to cheat or remove competition.

1. Phillips is still getting kids from huge area, them getting kids that way is why they are winning..

2. H-F... good point, lets multiply their enrollment by 1.65, give them a success factor and get them into 8A where they belong..

 

[LHSTigers94]

I'll go slow here for you. pjjp asserted that Rochester has achieved a level of current success that Montini does not currently enjoy. He posits Rochester should be subject to the same success factor that Montini is currently subjected to.

You claim that pjjp's assertion is not accurate. And now you claim that if it weren't for SHG that Montini WOULD enjoy the same or greater level of success as Rochester. Woulda coulda, shoulda...is that what you are resting your argument on? Looks and smells like a crock of crap to me.

Look, last year, Rochester lost not only to SHG but also to D Mac. Montini lost not only to SHG but also to THREE other teams last year.

The bottom line is this: Rochester has won five straight 4A titles, and the success factor does not apply to them. The last title that Montini won was in 2012, but the success factor applies to Montini.

Go ahead and spin that with as many wouldas, couldas and shouldas as you would like. If it looks and smells like crap, it's still crap.

I will go slow for you Ramblin. Both Rochester and Montini have been in the championship game over the last 5 years. Rochester has won where Montini stopped at 3. Montini has been in the game 6 years in a row They BOTH have been in the CHAMPIONSHIP game together!. The success factor is based on being in the game, not winning the game. Now that we got that out of the way.

I have always said that I agree that Rochester should be part of the success factor. What I disagreed with is that Rochester is ONLY successful because they are in 4A. I think 5A will be just like 4A unless they do 1-32. As long as it is 1-16 or quads, they would only meet teans like Montini, JCA or Naz in the championship game. The main point of this conversation was IF Rochester would have the same success if other teams were in 4A, specifically Montini, JCA, Naz, etc.

 

[Sportsmom901]

1. Phillips is still getting kids from huge area, them getting kids that way is why they are winning..

2. H-F... good point, lets multiply their enrollment by 1.65, give them a success factor and get them into 8A where they belong..

My last post clearly show that non-boundaries have nothing to do with a schools success, but the culture of the school does. Chicago has over 25% of its school being charter or contract school (non-boundaries). Why are only the successful school schools like Phillips and Solorio being used to judge if non-boundary school have an advantage, they are clearly the minority of the bunch. and the same goes for private schools why are only the successful schools being used to judge, if we are going to cry unfair advantages, shouldn't we use all schools under the non-boundaries umbrella when measuring a percentage of success and not just the school who has seen some form of success now and then, and only during the years they show signs of success, seems like the public schools and the IHSA are twisting the data to fit there agenda...

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

So HHS by your nonsensical logic. no public school or boundary school should ever under no circumstance whatsoever allow a transfer student. Please oh please tell me you aren't making that argument?

If that's the case we might as well blow up the basketball season.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

So HHS by your nonsensical logic. no public school or boundary school should ever under no circumstance whatsoever allow a transfer student. Please oh please tell me you aren't making that argument?

If that's the case we might as well blow up the basketball season.

Where did I say anything remotely close to that?

All I have meant to say or imply is that using the idea that a public school gets a transfer as a reason to give a public school a success factor is just crazy..

 

[HHSTigerFan]

My last post clearly show that non-boundaries have nothing to do with a schools success, but the culture of the school does. Chicago has over 25% of its school being charter or contract school (non-boundaries). Why are only the successful school schools like Phillips and Solorio being used to judge if non-boundary school have an advantage, they are clearly the minority of the bunch. and the same goes for private schools why are only the successful schools being used to judge, if we are going to cry unfair advantages, shouldn't we use all schools under the non-boundaries umbrella when measuring a percentage of success and not just the school who has seen some form of success now and then, and only during the years they show signs of success, seems like the public schools and the IHSA are twisting the data to fit there agenda...

Which is why the IHSA uses the multiplier and success factor system..

 

[crusader_of_90]

You idiots - all of yuse on both sides of the debate ... the point of this thread is Althoff is going to kick the crap out of Rochester!

Don't agree with me? Tell me how Rochester can match up with Althoff's superior athletes/

 

[Gannicus]

We will see if that happens, you old fart.

 

[Sportsmom901]

You idiots - all of yuse on both sides of the debate ... the point of this thread is Althoff is going to kick the crap out of Rochester!

Don't agree with me? Tell me how Rochester can match up with Althoff's superior athletes/

Sorry, and you are right Rochester & Althoff should be the topic of this thread, but i think when it was name "
Because Rochester has Made 4A Relevant ..." this title open the field up to many other questions about 4A relevants...... not saying i don't think they are relevant because i know that they are. but why do it seem any relevant then before was the question. We must find the reason, Then the loss of strong programs to crazy rules becomes the topic..... lol......... just a joke, your right.... i'm done?

 

[Sportsmom901]

Which is why the IHSA uses the multiplier and success factor system..

i'm not sure where you stand? What?

 

[crusader_of_90]

Maybe with the least wealth per capita, Althoff beats Rochester and heads to the semi final. Derek Leonard can spend his off season practicing how to stay off the playing field, something he rarely did on Saturday.

Maybe the turf colors has him confused.

 

[CPSFan]

This is my first post so please bear with me.
Being a CPS guy I have "lurked" about this message board and I feel the need to clear up a few misconceptions about some CPS schools. Solorio and Phillips as mentioned by Sportsmom are both indeed under the AUSL turnaround school umbrella along with Orr, Collins, and Chicago Academy. There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 or so AUSL elementary football programs in the city and they are alive and well. These young men however are NOT obligated to attend AUSL high schools and more often than not they have chosen to attend many private and charter schools within the city limits. Therefore Solorio and Phillips do not have feeder programs. Remember, other than Solorio the schools previously mentioned were at some point among the worst in the city and state so the stigma of "bad school in a bad neighborhood" still applies to quite a few parents making the Catholic Schools a more desirable destination. In fact there were quite a few coaches taking in the recent 8th grade championship offering "financial aid" to those players in need.

 

[eireog]

Welcome to the board. Thanks for the insight.

 

[crusader_of_90]

"Therefore" does not mean "unfortunately." More accurately, those schools have not been able to do much with this arrangement - it does not mean it does not exist.