Best college baseball HC in MS and why
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I'm a USM fan and out of the big three, it is Bianco--no doubt about it to me.
Don't know anything about Kinnison.
Don't know anything about Kinnison.
.. if you're voting, put why. I'd rather see reasons than random votes. It'll better rule out random bias.<div>
</div><div>I vote Kinnison.</div><div>
</div><div>Why? I think more often than not, he does more with less. I also feel like he's the toughest coach of all three (how can I judge this? It's hard, admittedly). I feel he's every bit as connected as any of the other three, but he gets hit harder in recruiting as well- JUCO's can easily state their case why a good player should go there, and the D1's are going to get kids too. He has to sell his program a different way. His teams are usually as fundamentally sound as you can be, mainly because he demands it.</div><div>
</div><div>I think Scott Berry's actually close, even though it's early in his career. Bianco's probably second, Cohen's probably last. Berry in 3rd but could easily rise. The transition from Corky to Berry was relatively seamless.</div>
</div><div>I vote Kinnison.</div><div>
</div><div>Why? I think more often than not, he does more with less. I also feel like he's the toughest coach of all three (how can I judge this? It's hard, admittedly). I feel he's every bit as connected as any of the other three, but he gets hit harder in recruiting as well- JUCO's can easily state their case why a good player should go there, and the D1's are going to get kids too. He has to sell his program a different way. His teams are usually as fundamentally sound as you can be, mainly because he demands it.</div><div>
</div><div>I think Scott Berry's actually close, even though it's early in his career. Bianco's probably second, Cohen's probably last. Berry in 3rd but could easily rise. The transition from Corky to Berry was relatively seamless.</div>
other than last year he's produced. yeah he hasn't been to omaha but he's consistently in contention for a trip there and is a great recruiter. could cohen overtake him in the near future? yes. but right now he's not there.
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Goat Still Grindin
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Berry is relatively new to the game but seems to be able to recruit well. <div>
</div><div>You have to say Bianco is best out of those three, and even though Cohen has matched his postseason success, Bianco has had his team as a national seed and hosted what, 5 regionals? 3 supers? Until we have the regular season success to host regionals, I can't say Cohen is better. </div><div>
</div><div>HOWEVER, Cohen probably would have out-done Bianco by now, had he stayed at Kentucky. And I think if you ask this again in 5 years, the answer will hands down be Cohen.</div>
</div><div>You have to say Bianco is best out of those three, and even though Cohen has matched his postseason success, Bianco has had his team as a national seed and hosted what, 5 regionals? 3 supers? Until we have the regular season success to host regionals, I can't say Cohen is better. </div><div>
</div><div>HOWEVER, Cohen probably would have out-done Bianco by now, had he stayed at Kentucky. And I think if you ask this again in 5 years, the answer will hands down be Cohen.</div>
people don't know Kinnison as well and aren't considering him?<div>
</div><div>I keep up with baseball a decent amount, though admittedly I haven't with DSU this season. I don't think they're doing as well as normal.</div><div>
</div><div>From what I've seen, he's as good as all of them, but I'm a little biased in that I grew up watching a lot of his teams. I am a MSU fan and went to State, but I feel my most impartial vote would still be Coach Kinnison. I don't think his coaching is a question, and I do feel if you put him in Cohen's or Bianco's or Berry's spot he'd be fine.</div><div>
</div><div>I know it's hard to vote on what you don't know, but still wonder if it's because you don't think he's best or it's just people don't keep up.</div><div>
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</div><div>I keep up with baseball a decent amount, though admittedly I haven't with DSU this season. I don't think they're doing as well as normal.</div><div>
</div><div>From what I've seen, he's as good as all of them, but I'm a little biased in that I grew up watching a lot of his teams. I am a MSU fan and went to State, but I feel my most impartial vote would still be Coach Kinnison. I don't think his coaching is a question, and I do feel if you put him in Cohen's or Bianco's or Berry's spot he'd be fine.</div><div>
</div><div>I know it's hard to vote on what you don't know, but still wonder if it's because you don't think he's best or it's just people don't keep up.</div><div>
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The Kinnisons were our neighbors at the time, and Mike saw my brother playing with his glove in the yard. He asked my brother if he could catch yet, and my brother said yes. Mike decided to throw him the ball a few times, and when he threw the ball at my brother, my brother forgot to put his glove up to his face and catch it. It hit my brother directly in the face. Mike felt really, really bad about it. They're good peoples.
Ha i had to chime in on this. I'm obligated to vote for Kinnison ( he's my uncle). The guy is hardcore to the max but a great guy and at the end of the day knows exactly how winning is done. Hell, I was scared to death of him when I went to his baseball camps and he was my own family. There's a reason he's in the MS sports hall of fame.
BTW they are 30-11 right now I believe. Pretty decent season so far but your right. It's not up to Kinnison's standards.
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Goat Still Grindin
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Although they have had a pretty heralded program out there for a number of years. <div>
</div><div>If he was so great, you'd have thought he'd have gotten an opportunity on a bigger stage, but you never know, he may just like the Delta. Is he from out there?</div>
</div><div>If he was so great, you'd have thought he'd have gotten an opportunity on a bigger stage, but you never know, he may just like the Delta. Is he from out there?</div>
I think he has a ton of reasons to stay. I honestly feel he's probably passed on a lot of bigger opportunities. Don't know him personally, but DSU's pretty community-based, and I just think he feels pretty connected there and is loyal. He played there for Boo Ferriss, who still comes to all of the games. His family lives nearby, his kids grew up there, DSU's big on tradition with their baseball, he enjoys teaching, etc. Just my feelings.<div>Goat Still Grindin said:
</div><div>Trust me, he is pretty good. I promise he's as good of a field coach as any of those listed- in my mind, anyway. I wasn't necessarily meaning "you" either, just in general.</div><div>
</div><div>madisondawg: awesome. I agree with you, he's a pretty tough coach. I've had a few friends play for him. But, he gets a lot out of those guys. I didn't realize their record this year, just was thinking at one point they had to battle to get back to .500, which is uncharacteristic. I heard about the perfect game. Best of luck to him and DSU. I'm a fan.
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Goat Still Grindin
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I can't answer that because I'm not sure. <div>Goat Still Grindin said:
</div><div>I know he goes to every DSU home game and keeps a scorecard. I doubt he gets over to MSU much, and I think most of his support is with DSU. He lives in Cleveland.</div><div>
</div><div>That's a pretty cool guy too if you ever get to talk to him. He's sharp, or was a few years ago. Loves to talk baseball with anyone. I don't know how old he is now, but I know he still does all of that.</div>
Didn't realize he was there. I don't keep up with other schools that much, honestly.<div>ScaldedDawg said:
</div><div>Have heard Hill Denson at Millsaps, but I honestly know nothing on him.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm a big fan of Terry Thompson back in the day at MS Delta CC myself. I always liked his teams, and he can develop a pitcher as good as anyone I know of. Think he put 5 in the majors, and I think a lot of them credit him with grooming them. He changed a friend of mine to a submarine style, and it bought him 2-3 years in the bigs and now probably a lifetime career with baseball. He was on the 40 man roster one year when the Indians made it to the playoffs and was making BANK not even traveling with them. It did end up putting too much stress on his elbow, but I think it was worth it. He wasn't recruited heavily and went from 2 years in the indy's to the pro's as he developed his pitching more. Pretty awesome.
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and lost a few.
I also remember watching Hill Denson dumping/throwing a giant bucket of baseballs at the Umpires at DNF when he got tossed. I didn't know he ended up at Millsaps.
I also remember watching Hill Denson dumping/throwing a giant bucket of baseballs at the Umpires at DNF when he got tossed. I didn't know he ended up at Millsaps.
.... I don't know the history, but I did a semester at DSU after I graduated staying on my parent's insurance while I worked and applied for school. I took a coaching class from Bill Marchant, who was the coach before Kinnison (he had a bad car wreck and is paralyzed from waist down and had to quit). I was coaching at the time and was interested in it anyway. We talked a lot, and he mentioned a few times DSU could hang with all of the D1's back in the day. Not so sure that would happen now, but still pretty impressive. <div>ScaldedDawg said:
</div><div>Sorry on Denson- like I said, don't really know him and don't really follow college ball outside of the few schools I named. I knew he was at one of the Jackson ones. Just was thinking if Corky was at Belhaven, and I knew he wasn't at MC, then....... nevermind, though.</div>
because he has won a National Championship.
If he wasn't a DSU alum that played for Boo Ferriss, I definitely think he would have gone to greener pastures. I would have loved to have had him at MSU. In fact, he was my number two choice behind Cohen to replace Polk.
Also- consider the types of baseball players that DSU has to get. They don't get very many MLB draftable type talents at all. Almost every single player that they get has to be developed- and that is coaching. He has put some guys in MLB- Eli Whiteside, Edwin Maysonet, and Brent Leach off the top of my head. Not to mention the plethora of D-II All-Americans that he has had over the years.
I'll put Bianco at number two based on longevity, and Cohen at three, but Berry should be four.
Cohen has accomplished more at MSU than Berry has at USM, and is 3-0 against him including 1-0 in a regional.
If he wasn't a DSU alum that played for Boo Ferriss, I definitely think he would have gone to greener pastures. I would have loved to have had him at MSU. In fact, he was my number two choice behind Cohen to replace Polk.
Also- consider the types of baseball players that DSU has to get. They don't get very many MLB draftable type talents at all. Almost every single player that they get has to be developed- and that is coaching. He has put some guys in MLB- Eli Whiteside, Edwin Maysonet, and Brent Leach off the top of my head. Not to mention the plethora of D-II All-Americans that he has had over the years.
I'll put Bianco at number two based on longevity, and Cohen at three, but Berry should be four.
Cohen has accomplished more at MSU than Berry has at USM, and is 3-0 against him including 1-0 in a regional.
Isn't every D2 program dealing with the exact same problems as Kinnison,
though? If you want to look at the lower level college coaches in the
state, I guarantee no one is at more of a disadvantage than Jim Page at
Millsaps, but he has built a great program there for decades.
I don't think you can look at coaches in other divisions and compare. All of the divisions have a completely different landscape. I would say D2 is the easiest to win in for a Southern school.
That said, Bianco wins by
default: Berry and Cohen haven't done anything, and Bianco has done an
amazing job at Ole Miss. And I'm not just talking about on the field.
Their baseball program was nothing prior to his taking over. Swayze was
nothing special. Their attendance was lousy He
changed all of that in a few years. I'm still hoping that Ole Miss is
dumb enough to run him out.
though? If you want to look at the lower level college coaches in the
state, I guarantee no one is at more of a disadvantage than Jim Page at
Millsaps, but he has built a great program there for decades.
I don't think you can look at coaches in other divisions and compare. All of the divisions have a completely different landscape. I would say D2 is the easiest to win in for a Southern school.
That said, Bianco wins by
default: Berry and Cohen haven't done anything, and Bianco has done an
amazing job at Ole Miss. And I'm not just talking about on the field.
Their baseball program was nothing prior to his taking over. Swayze was
nothing special. Their attendance was lousy He
changed all of that in a few years. I'm still hoping that Ole Miss is
dumb enough to run him out.
I always heard it was a game for Denson and Polk. Denson would do something ridiculous in Starkville. Polk would do the same in Hattiesburg.ScaldedDawg said:
Denson has turned Belhaven into an outstanding NAIA program. I think they made the NAIA World Series last year.
Well, yeah, but they don't all have the success Kinnison does. Compared to D1 and JUCO, which is my point, Kinnison has a lot more disadvantages, so it's hard to just line them up and compare them without taking those things into consideration, which was my point.<div>QB1MattSaracen said:
</div><div>EDIT: Just read the rest of what you said. Sorry, brain's not on just yet. I don't think D2 is the easiest really. They have to miss out on a LOT of recruits- we have a lot of colleges in MS alone that he competes with for players. I think the GSC is pretty tough. I think they all have it tough in some form or another, but it's hard to entice a kid to play D2 when you have D1's and JUCO's to go against. I do get your point on the NAIA's and ASC and all of that.</div><div>
</div><div>My main point- just because someone is at a D1 school does not make them the "best" necessarily. I picked 4 guys I knew, but I could have easily included guys like Jim Page and Hill Denson, I just didn't know them and don't feel I can judge them accurately.
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</div><div>I agree, though: the Belhaven's, Millsaps's, and MC's have it even tougher.
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He literally built the USM program from less than nothing. I can remember when we used to play either at William Carey or at USM every year and the trip to Carey was the tough one. When we would play "at" USM the game would always be at Hattiesburg High School's field because they had much better facilities than USM did (and their field was built in the 1920s).
...Denson gave us the tools. Pete Taylor Park-Hill Denson field should just be Hill Denson Field. He made that facility into what it is.
I agree with you completely that the small school coaches aren't necessarily worse coaches. The point I was making is that it is comparing apples and oranges. Competing in D1, D2, D3 are completely different from one another--with D2 and NAIA being the closest.CEO2044 said:
Regarding D2 being the easiest to compete in: May be talking out of my *** on this but it seems to me like money is not a very big factor. It seems like there is a base amount that schools need to be competitive in D2. As long as you have enough to be competitive, you're on equal ground with everyone else. It isn't like D1 where Ole Miss/State have a ton of money but Alabama has more, so they are better. There isn't that arms race.
Also,
-D2 is the smallest division
-Regionally, the Southeast is nowhere near as crowded as in D1
-Delta State being a state school helps out, as well, since there are a lot of D2 private schools
For the smaller schools, while yes, the D1 schools get all the top talent, I think there are a ton of quality high school players that can easily become good D2 or D3 players with good coaching
D3 is, far and away, the toughest for schools down here--as evidenced by the fact that D3 schools in the Southeast never win titles in the major sports, and rarely come close. It is Midwest dominated because so many of the D3 schools up there are state schools or much larger private schools. Plus, it is much harder to find athletes in this area that can attend Millsaps, Rhodes, etc than it is in the North.
Yeah, anyway, so long story short: Comparing success at the D1 level to success at the D2/D3/NAIA level is apples and oranges.
I went to quite a few USM baseball games when I was a grad student there. Sometimes I wore my MSU cap, sometimes my USM cap. This one time I was in line next to Hill Denson at the cafeteria and he got on to me (jokingly, I hope) because I had my MSU cap on.
Well, I think your JUCO and D1 programs battle it out for the top talent. And JUCO has an advantage because I think they have more scholarships to offer (I forget their limit), it's cheap anyway, and the big thing is the draft.<div>QB1MattSaracen said:
</div><div>I do agree that there are a ton of good players that can make for a very solid D2 team. I sometimes think people would be surprised at how small the gap can be in a D1 and D2 player, or D1 and JUCO.</div><div>
</div><div>And I agree competing is different... I'm mainly talking about on the field coaching. Not necessarily who has 600 wins or who has the most people in the bigs. What guy can you give any kid and he take them and make them reach full potential? Who knows how to coach in the tight situations best, who manages their team well, etc. Who stands out to you most and why?</div><div>
</div><div>I hear you on less schools... I was looking for info on Kinnison to give to someone else who didn't know him and found a good YouTube where he addresses a lot of what you are talking about. He is definitely coaching D2 within the parameters set... a lot of them that he doesn't really like (less practice time in fall, early season start time because the schools can't afford to house students when school's out, etc.)
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There are three fantastic coaches at the small schools in Mississippi that don't get enough credit. Especially guys like Kinnison, Page, and Denson, who stayed in the state. The first two of which are coaching their alma's and Denson still felt like he had something to say. They should be recognized more.
Good topic. There's some fantastic college baseball in this state and you're missing out if you have never checked out a DSU, Millsaps, or Belhaven game. DSU could compete with most D1 teams. Millsaps destroyed Jacksonville State several years ago when JSU threw a guy who was drafted in the first few rounds. Belhaven has several former D1 players and went to the NAIA World Series last year.
Even aside from those, you look at a guy like Doug Shanks and what he's trying to do at Valley.
Good topic. There's some fantastic college baseball in this state and you're missing out if you have never checked out a DSU, Millsaps, or Belhaven game. DSU could compete with most D1 teams. Millsaps destroyed Jacksonville State several years ago when JSU threw a guy who was drafted in the first few rounds. Belhaven has several former D1 players and went to the NAIA World Series last year.
Even aside from those, you look at a guy like Doug Shanks and what he's trying to do at Valley.
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Yeah...the reply is different from the edit button. FML. </span>
I like some Doug Shanks too. He's got a TOUGH road, and I really think he's done a pretty freaking good job considering. He is a pretty bright baseball guy in his own right.<div>QB1MattSaracen said:
</div><div>I think DSU could gear up and play a one game series against those teams competitively, but doubtful on the depth- and it shouldn't happen. Not sure if they'd do it this year, but I have seen them several years where they most certainly could have.
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</div><div>3 points to you.
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