Big 12 is Doomed

[GMC2]

Been analyzing conference expansion talk and I will make this short and sweet:

1. I have always thought Bob Bowlsby would be a good CEO of a large corporation, a Senior Executive in the Federal Gov't at a cabinet level agency, or the commissioner of the SEC/Big 10 type, but not the Big 12. We needed an aggressive, small business minded, cut throat wheeler and dealer to lead the conference. It has been walking a tight rope since the defections of Missouri and Texas A&M.

2. Time has passed to make any big moves by poach other power 5 conferences

3. Texas only wants to expand to limit liability when they leave. Add 4 teams not from a current power 5 conference and the Big 12 will still exist and they could justify in litigation a lower penalty fee.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Been analyzing conference expansion talk and I will make this short and sweet:

1. I have always thought Bob Bowlsby would be a good CEO of a large corporation, a Senior Executive in the Federal Gov't at a cabinet level agency, or the commissioner of the SEC/Big 10 type, but not the Big 12. We needed an aggressive, small business minded, cut throat wheeler and dealer to lead the conference. It has been walking a tight rope since the defections of Missouri and Texas A&M.

2. Time has passed to make any big moves by poach other power 5 conferences

3. Texas only wants to expand to limit liability when they leave. Add 4 teams not from a current power 5 conference and the Big 12 will still exist and they could justify in litigation a lower penalty fee.

I hope I am wrong.

You might be right and you might be wrong. However it is out of our control and we get another 8 years to enjoy before GOR expires. Hopefully after expansion the TV contract and GOR gets extended.

 

[Buckaineer]

How does Texas "limit liability"? If they leave after the current contracts--which is the only time they'd be able to leave due to grants of rights agreements they have NO liability.

Therefore it is asinine to suggest that they desire expansion now to reduce liability later.

Obviously Texas is for expansion because they have chosen to continue to strengthen the BIG 12 and NOT go anywhere else. Adding schools now has no effect on Texas leaving later if they chose to after 2025. However since the conference is going to expand, its going to be meeting with its tv partners to have changes made to its contracts--and the tv partners are likely going to want to lock down the conference long term at that point. This means a longer tv contract AND a renewed and lengthened grant of rights.

 

[TexasforevEER]

I am trying to sort all this out. When I get things figured out I will inform the entire board. I refuse to tip my hand until I have the entire answer. Don't even bother asking!

 

[WVUALLEN]

Been analyzing conference expansion talk and I will make this short and sweet:

1. I have always thought Bob Bowlsby would be a good CEO of a large corporation, a Senior Executive in the Federal Gov't at a cabinet level agency, or the commissioner of the SEC/Big 10 type, but not the Big 12. We needed an aggressive, small business minded, cut throat wheeler and dealer to lead the conference. It has been walking a tight rope since the defections of Missouri and Texas A&M.

2. Time has passed to make any big moves by poach other power 5 conferences (GOR stopped poaching or ACC would be done).

3. Texas only wants to expand to limit liability when they leave. Add 4 teams not from a current power 5 conference and the Big 12 will still exist and they could justify in litigation a lower penalty fee.

I hope I am wrong.

You should add #4 - GOR

 

[WVU enginEER]

I am trying to sort all this out. When I get things figured out I will inform the entire board. I refuse to tip my hand until I have the entire answer. Don't even bother asking!

How long do you think it will take. My granting of rights subscription to this board expires soon and I might not be around much longer.

 

[NoleTigity11]

This thread just made the front page of yahoo.com

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Big 12 is Doomed
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[heskia1]

GMC2- You have been on this message board for 12 years and left 845 messages. The fact that you have received ONLY FOUR likes in than span of time, should tell you something about the content of your posts!!

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Where is the guy "Dr Doom" who used to post the pics of Meg & Kate Bulger?

As he would say, "We're Doomed!"

Btw I really miss the pics he posted.

 

[TexasforevEER]

How long do you think it will take. My granting of rights subscription to this board expires soon and I might not be around much longer.

WVUenginEAR...................it won't take as long as you think. How long do you think? Well, it won't take that long.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

WVUenginEAR...................it won't take as long as you think. How long do you think? Well, it won't take that long.

Time is measured in jugs o' pickles, if you get my drift. It might take two jugs, it might take 10. Something like this is hard to say, let alone cipher out by your own!

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

Good grief .... some people still don't understand that the conference commissioner works for the school presidents who actually set the agenda for the conference.

 

[xWVU2010x]

The Big XII is a decisive number 5 in the current conference pecking order, it is just a matter of time before it implodes given the history. That could be tomorrow and it could be 10 years from now, and it may or may not involve WVU getting a better position for itself. We will see how it plays out.

 

[WVU enginEER]

Time is measured in jugs o' pickles, if you get my drift. It might take two jugs, it might take 10. Something like this is hard to say, let alone cipher out by your own!

Sounds like we are in a real pickle, if you know what I mean.

 

[torontoeers]

Time is measured in jugs o' pickles, if you get my drift. It might take two jugs, it might take 10. Something like this is hard to say, let alone cipher out by your own!

WV ex-pat in GA...nevermind the jugs...Ole Warez has me sending 10 CASES your way...just in time for the beat down on Mizzou...'cause you know you know'...enjoy!

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

The Big XII is a decisive number 5 in the current conference pecking order, it is just a matter of time before it implodes given the history. That could be tomorrow and it could be 10 years from now, and it may or may not involve WVU getting a better position for itself. We will see how it plays out.

Who determined this current conference pecking order? Income distributed to members this year? No, that's #3. Number of teams in final 2015 Top 10? No, that's tied for #2 with SEC.

Could you clarify the criteria that makes the Big 12 a decisive number 5? All that's left is the number of teams. Not quality or competitive teams, just teams. You are absolutely right, the Big 12 has much fewer losers than other conferences and therefore fewer teams!

 

[Pitt4Life34]

How does Texas "limit liability"? If they leave after the current contracts--which is the only time they'd be able to leave due to grants of rights agreements they have NO liability.

Therefore it is asinine to suggest that they desire expansion now to reduce liability later.

Obviously Texas is for expansion because they have chosen to continue to strengthen the BIG 12 and NOT go anywhere else. Adding schools now has no effect on Texas leaving later if they chose to after 2025. However since the conference is going to expand, its going to be meeting with its tv partners to have changes made to its contracts--and the tv partners are likely going to want to lock down the conference long term at that point. This means a longer tv contract AND a renewed and lengthened grant of rights.

resident moron at it again

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Who determined this current conference pecking order? Income distributed to members this year? No, that's #3. Number of teams in final 2015 Top 10? No, that's tied for #2 with SEC.

Could you clarify the criteria that makes the Big 12 a decisive number 5? All that's left is the number of teams. Not quality or competitive teams, just teams. You are absolutely right, the Big 12 has much fewer losers than other conferences and therefore fewer teams!

I think he is trying to say the Big12 has mismanaged some things over the last several years. And the most likely P5 conference to be eliminated if one was to go. Anyone that is not a homer would agree that the Big12 is by far the most vulnerable of the P5 conferences. It comes off as a desperate situation for the Big12. Not knowing Texas' end game makes this conference the #5 conference IMO because we are not positive it will even be around in 5-7 years.

 

[xWVU2010x]

Who determined this current conference pecking order? Income distributed to members this year? No, that's #3. Number of teams in final 2015 Top 10? No, that's tied for #2 with SEC.

Could you clarify the criteria that makes the Big 12 a decisive number 5? All that's left is the number of teams. Not quality or competitive teams, just teams. You are absolutely right, the Big 12 has much fewer losers than other conferences and therefore fewer teams!

The fact that the Big XII was on the verge of total collapse before Texas decided to stop soliciting interest from the Big Ten and PAC because the remaining members gave them everything they wanted. No other conference has this *** backwards arrangement to give extra to the conference's top football brand who also has the power to prevent a conference network for happening. Until that is fixed, TV revenue and polls are irrelevant. Our TV revenue is also only high because we negotiated at a peak time for live sports demand for cable companies, do not fool yourself into believing that our current TV deal is reflective of the current demand for Big XII sports vs the other leagues.

 

[GMC2]

I have actually been a member since 1998. Just needed to create a new account after forgetting login info.


I just think UT and OU will be slipping out back door while new members are coming in. Lawyers will delay and negotiate fees for GOR for years.


Hope I am am wrong. But if we can't pluck teams from other Power 5 conferences by by Big 12 as we know it.

Bowlsby does not have skill to do this. He is a big organization administrator where the operation runs itself. No entrepreneurial spirit IMO







QUOTE="heskia1, post: 1165990, member: 23803"]GMC2- You have been on this message board for 12 years and left 845 messages. The fact that you have received ONLY FOUR likes in than span of time, should tell you something about the content of your posts!![/QUOTE]

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

The fact that the Big XII was on the verge of total collapse before Texas decided to stop soliciting interest from the Big Ten and PAC because the remaining members gave them everything they wanted. No other conference has this *** backwards arrangement to give extra to the conference's top football brand who also has the power to prevent a conference network for happening. Until that is fixed, TV revenue and polls are irrelevant. Our TV revenue is also only high because we negotiated at a peak time for live sports demand for cable companies, do not fool yourself into believing that our current TV deal is reflective of the current demand for Big XII sports vs the other leagues.

I'm beginning to think you don't like the Big 12 or any of it's teams. TV revenue is an important part of a conference budget and polls are an indicator of the athletic success of your teams. In which sport was the Big 12 an inferior conference for 2015? It certainly wasn't football, basketball or baseball.

Demand for sports is determined by the fans, not the networks. Where are you trolling from to simply spew opinionated venom regarding the conference? Why all the bitterness? Right now, WVU has never had it so good conference and facility wise. They could even have a good football year.

 

[Orlaco]

This thread just made the front page of yahoo.com

• Big 12 is Doomed
  
  
  Been analyzing conference expansion talk and I will make this short and sweet: 1. I have always thought Bob Bowlsby would be a good CEO of a large...
  
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Yea... ...15,000 views and only 20 (or so) replies ??

There's apps/programs to make that happen... ...but I suppose it's possible without using them.

Still odd....

 

[VaultHunter]

If getting 30+ million a year and more in the future is doomed then I wish I was doomed too

 

[xWVU2010x]

I'm beginning to think you don't like the Big 12 or any of it's teams. TV revenue is an important part of a conference budget and polls are an indicator of the athletic success of your teams. In which sport was the Big 12 an inferior conference for 2015? It certainly wasn't football, basketball or baseball.

Demand for sports is determined by the fans, not the networks. Where are you trolling from to simply spew opinionated venom regarding the conference? Why all the bitterness? Right now, WVU has never had it so good conference and facility wise. They could even have a good football year.

I dont like the Big XII, we are here out of necessity, not desire by the other 8 teams (TCU in the same boat as us). We play 9 teams that we have nothing in common with other than the need to fill a schedule. Im glad we are here and not left behind, I enjoy the opportunity to road trip to Austin every other year, not really into the other potential locations. But to sit here and actually spin that the Big XII is not the worst off of the 5 major conference simply is sipping kool aid. Everyone signed record deals, we struck a deal during a time that DVR, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Premium Cable all have the core cable networks very worried. One of the major things that keeps the cable companies afloat is live content, and we struck a deal at a very opportune time, it doesnt mean that because we struck a deal at a better time than some other leagues that we would have gotten more than them if they were at the table at the same time. When the other leagues renew their deals they will top ours, guaranteed. We have a small geographical footprint, no team from this conference has won a National title in 10 years, so there is no must see TV that would draw people outside of the primary footprint, its simple numbers and demographics.

 

[MikeRafone]

Time is measured in jugs o' pickles, if you get my drift. It might take two jugs, it might take 10. Something like this is hard to say, let alone cipher out by your own!

As long as it's not that recipe of Aunt Bea's. Those things taste like kerosene.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

The fact that the Big XII was on the verge of total collapse before Texas decided to stop soliciting interest from the Big Ten and PAC because the remaining members gave them everything they wanted. No other conference has this *** backwards arrangement to give extra to the conference's top football brand who also has the power to prevent a conference network for happening. Until that is fixed, TV revenue and polls are irrelevant. Our TV revenue is also only high because we negotiated at a peak time for live sports demand for cable companies, do not fool yourself into believing that our current TV deal is reflective of the current demand for Big XII sports vs the other leagues.

So Neilson lies? And all those people in the stadiums, arenas, and ballparks have been cardboard cut-outs? I feel like such a fool. Thanks for straightening me out. By the way, Fox wants and needs the Big 12 to expand Eastward.

 

[xWVU2010x]

So Neilson lies? And all those people in the stadiums, arenas, and ballparks have been cardboard cut-outs? I feel like such a fool. Thanks for straightening me out. By the way, Fox wants and needs the Big 12 to expand Eastward.

Do you have any tangible stats or sources you can cite to prove me wrong? Didnt Fox and ESPN both come out and say that expansion is not something they would favor? Im not trying to "straighten you out". Im trying to figure out how anyone could realistically believe this league is on stable ground given the constant issues surrounding it, if you want to try and change my mind please quote something of substance.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Do you have any tangible stats or sources you can cite to prove me wrong? Didnt Fox and ESPN both come out and say that expansion is not something they would favor? Im not trying to "straighten you out". Im trying to figure out how anyone could realistically believe this league is on stable ground given the constant issues surrounding it, if you want to try and change my mind please quote something of substance.

ESPN and Fox did not come out and say anything. An unidentified broadcast source told a writer that the broadcasters were opposed to Big 12 expansion, etc. It appears the writer assumed he meant ESPN as well as Fox.

Fox is very unlikely to oppose an opportunity to obtain media rights to major Eastern media markets currently dominated by ESPN. And ESPN has to help them pay for it.
Fox is a clear winner if the Big 12 expands from the top AAC teams. And it will weaken the conference, ESPN's AAC.

 

[Buckaineer]

Its not that the BIG 12 isn't on "stable ground"-its that many outside the conference are trying hard to make the ground its on "shaky".

The membership of the conference has stated their preference to remain together and build the conference they have--and others don't like that because it means they can't get BIG 12 teams OUT.

 

[xWVU2010x]

Its not that the BIG 12 isn't on "stable ground"-its that many outside the conference are trying hard to make the ground its on "shaky".

The membership of the conference has stated their preference to remain together and build the conference they have--and others don't like that because it means they can't get BIG 12 teams OUT.

GOR will keep the teams here for another 8 years, beyond that there is a strong chance this league doesnt last in its current form with Texas and OU being the most likely to be lured away and of course the most damaging teams this league could lose. Like the old Big East, this league is a stop gap whose days are numbered. 8 years is a long time and the landscape could be different then, I just dont see how all 10 teams stay unified when the PAC/B1G/SEC all come calling. WVU would likely jump if offered to the B1G or SEC.

 

[telostelos]

xwvu2010x,
If you don't like the BIG XII, I am fine with kicking out West Virginia and adding BYU, Houston and Memphis. That way there would be bigger media markets. Only downside is that we would lose an "cupcake" on our schedule.

TO THE REST OF THE WVU BOARD:
Seriously, I do like having West Virginia in the conference. Most of the expansion talk in this area of the country is how to add some members back east for West Virginia. Cincy is the number one choice. Some like UCONN, others want Memphis, others want either UCF and.or USF. More of the "crazy" talk has the Big XII adding Florida State and Clemson. (I would love that but I just don't see it happening.) If there is any addition like that, I suspect that K-State would be in the same division as West Virginia. That would be great to continue to play each other every year.

Go WVU beat Misery!!!!

 

[xWVU2010x]

xwvu2010x,
If you don't like the BIG XII, I am fine with kicking out West Virginia and adding BYU, Houston and Memphis. That way there would be bigger media markets. Only downside is that we would lose an "cupcake" on our schedule.

Whatever clown, I have nothing against the teams in this league, but its obvious we are a Texas/OU defection away from being in Big East 2.0 again, this time without any schools who offer driveable road trips or history with us. Nothing is guaranteed for this conference after 8 years, KSU like probably everyone else, will defect if offered.