Big 12 (yes another boring realignment story of the future)

[WVUALLEN]

From SB NATION - 2017, Sept.

The schools have a deal to stick together until June 2025. Their commish is now locked in until then, too.

The Big 12’s grant of rights expires exactly when Bowlsby’s deal does.

The Big 12’s presidents clearly think he’s doing a good job. They’re just not sure he’ll have a league to run beyond the last day of the contract he just signed.

When the grant of rights expires, the Big 12 might expire, too.

Nothing’s certain. Predicting how the conference landscape will look in eight years is difficult if not impossible, and the Big 12’s plans might change (and then change again, and again) in the years between now and June 30, 2025.

So it’s possible that some of the Big 12’s teams will get poached by other conferences once the grant of rights nears its expiration. Given that the league has only 10 teams, it really can’t shrink further and survive as a powerful athletic conference — especially if any of the teams leaving happened to be powers like Texas and Oklahoma.

If the Big 12 went away, its teams would probably scatter all around the country.

Many more boring big 12 opinion replies are welcome, with thoughts and possibilities. Expiration is only 6 years from expiring.

This board needs a switch from Butt-kaineer circle jerk replies and threads.

So here is a repeat realignment boredom thread.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

I think the NCAA will expand the college football playoffs in order to give automatic bids to conference winners and then other spots will be for the at-large teams. This will be done to satisfy conference members and commissioners. The NCAA will also do this to help keep the conferences together instead of imploding because some of them will collapse once the realignment happens.

I think it was Clay Travis who mentioned it on his podcast, but he used the PAC 12 as an example.

 

[doneagain]

From SB NATION - 2017, Sept.

The schools have a deal to stick together until June 2025. Their commish is now locked in until then, too.

The Big 12’s grant of rights expires exactly when Bowlsby’s deal does.

The Big 12’s presidents clearly think he’s doing a good job. They’re just not sure he’ll have a league to run beyond the last day of the contract he just signed.

When the grant of rights expires, the Big 12 might expire, too.

Nothing’s certain. Predicting how the conference landscape will look in eight years is difficult if not impossible, and the Big 12’s plans might change (and then change again, and again) in the years between now and June 30, 2025.

So it’s possible that some of the Big 12’s teams will get poached by other conferences once the grant of rights nears its expiration. Given that the league has only 10 teams, it really can’t shrink further and survive as a powerful athletic conference — especially if any of the teams leaving happened to be powers like Texas and Oklahoma.

If the Big 12 went away, its teams would probably scatter all around the country.

Many more boring big 12 opinion replies are welcome, with thoughts and possibilities. Expiration is only 6 years from expiring.

This board needs a switch from Butt-kaineer circle jerk replies and threads.

So here is a repeat realignment boredom thread.

Random thoughts...

If playoff expansion occurs, that will probably keep everything status quo.

Why would Texas or Oklahoma want to fight Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State for a spot in the playoffs in the B10; or Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, and Florida in the SEC?

I can’t imagine they would want to uproot all their sports and fly east win in and week out to play in the ACC.

The same goes for the P12, why put your minor teams in the position to be flying to Washington State, Oregon, or California?

Right now, they make money comparable to the B10 and SEC and really only have to beat each other for a shot at the playoffs and only have to make limited out of the region trips to WVU.

Makes no sense for them to go elsewhere. They want access to the playoffs and they have it in the B12.

Who else is gonna let Texas have its network and let Oklahoma not participate in the ESPN+ package?

There is no push for expansion by other P5 leagues at the moment.

The thing to watch is how accessible the playoffs are/become in the next few years to Oklahoma and Texas if either are winning 11-12 games each season. Are they in the playoff mix? Playoff Expansion effectively kills Conference Expansion, because it makes it unnecessary.

Conference expansion would be considered by other P5 leagues if rumors swirled that Texas or Oklahoma were looking at other options. They would try to lure them in as a package deal, but OU probably doesn’t go anywhere without OK State. Politics could derail a lot of plans.

I still think a move by the B12 to bring in two more teams and drop back to 8 conference games in order to schedule their way to 10 wins each season and bolster the appearance of league strength for playoff contention is a possibility. Memphis and Cincinnati make sense from a geographical perspective and from a population perspective for expanding the footprint and appeal of the espn+ subscription service. Both have shown an attempt to be competitive in football and basketball.

In a given year WVU would have a schedule consisting of 8 conference games (evened out at 4 home and 4 away), and then a possible nonconference schedule of an FCS school and 3 regional games from a potential pool of opponents consisting of:

Pitt
Penn State
Virginia Tech
Louisville
Syracuse
Boston College
Maryland
UVA
Rutgers

Or possibly a neutral site game.

So we probably are looking at possibly 7 home games every other year. Travel demands on fans would be lessened a bit.

But I know... we are connoisseurs of fine football, not just mere fans... we can’t be asked to regularly play teams the likes of Memphis and Cincinnati. Our gentlemen and ladies would be appalled at the idea of lowering ourselves to those standards.

If change is imminent, negotiations for new contracts will begin about 2022-23, a couple years before the current contact expires.

 

[doneagain]

I think the NCAA will expand the college football playoffs in order to give automatic bids to conference winners and then other spots will be for the at-large teams. This will be done to satisfy conference members and commissioners. The NCAA will also do this to help keep the conferences together instead of imploding because some of them will collapse once the realignment happens.

I think it was Clay Travis who mentioned it on his podcast, but he used the PAC 12 as an example.

The NCAA doesn’t control the playoffs.

 

[Nova Mountaineer]

I think the NCAA will expand the college football playoffs in order to give automatic bids to conference winners and then other spots will be for the at-large teams. This will be done to satisfy conference members and commissioners. The NCAA will also do this to help keep the conferences together instead of imploding because some of them will collapse once the realignment happens.

I think it was Clay Travis who mentioned it on his podcast, but he used the PAC 12 as an example.

Now this is a sensible post - indeed should to 8 and include all P-5 champs+ three.

 

[op2]

I'm up for expanding the playoffs but a problem is a lack of weeks to do it in and part of the reason for that is the week used for the conference title games, which doesn't narrow the field at all but just nudges some teams out and others in. They should get rid of the conference title games and use that week as the first round of the playoffs. Have the games be on campus, with the higher seed getting home field advantage.

You may ask "But how will the giant 14 team conferences determine their champions?" Answer: That's their problem. Fourteen teams is ridiculous big for a conference anyway since it means some schools go years without even playing other conference-mates. Maybe getting rid of the conference title games will give conference an incentive to shrink.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I'm up for expanding the playoffs but a problem is a lack of weeks to do it in and part of the reason for that is the week used for the conference title games, which doesn't narrow the field at all but just nudges some teams out and others in. They should get rid of the conference title games and use that week as the first round of the playoffs. Have the games be on campus, with the higher seed getting home field advantage.

You may ask "But how will the giant 14 team conferences determine their champions?" Answer: That's their problem. Fourteen teams is ridiculous big for a conference anyway since it means some schools go years without even playing other conference-mates. Maybe getting rid of the conference title games will give conference an incentive to shrink.

Conferences will not give up the money a "Conference Title Game" now provides.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[op2]

Conferences will not give up the money a "Conference Title Game" now provides.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

That's the problem...conference don't want to give up anything in the short term. These schools are like drug addicts and they always needs a bigger fix. What's good enough today is good enough today, but tomorrow when they get more, suddenly what was good enough before no longer is.

But the thing is, if you want to enlarge the playoff then you have to make the season longer and longer or else cut out something already there. If you have a 12 game regular season and everybody has a bye then you have a 13 week season. And if you insist on conference title games then you have a 14 week season and all that is BEFORE you can even begin the playoff.

How about this then...get rid of the conference title games and have a 16 team playoff. That would be 13 more games to counteract the 5-10 conference title games gotten rid of. And I guarantee you every one of those 13 playoff games would bring in more revenue than the conference title games, which aren't really of much interest to fans outside that conference.

What brings in more money nowadays, college basketball conference tournaments or the NCAA tournament?

 

[WVUALLEN]

Expanding the playoffs would save Big 12 / Pac 12 and bring no need for any expansion.

 

[Buckaineer]

Bowlsby will be well into his 70s- this is why he is retiring as the contracts are renewed.

his plan is to stay through the next contract signings.

Has nothing to do with anything realignment related.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Bowlsby will be well into his 70s- this is why he is retiring as the contracts are renewed.

his plan is to stay through the next contract signings.

Has nothing to do with anything realignment related.

Good thought.

Realignment related if Big 12 is not renewed in 2025. Teams will not be affiliated with each other and fair pickings for all.

The expiration date for playoffs is January 2026. Logical that negotiations for playoffs will begin January of 2025 and could last for sometime. If serious talk about extending the playoffs from 4 teams to 8 teams will have serious ramifications on Big 12 and it's expiration date in 2025. Big 12 could be in a wait and see pattern on negotiation for playoff contract.

It's just all speculation and guessing from an opinion basis.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Random thoughts...

If playoff expansion occurs, that will probably keep everything status quo.

Why would Texas or Oklahoma want to fight Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State for a spot in the playoffs in the B10; or Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, and Florida in the SEC?

I can’t imagine they would want to uproot all their sports and fly east win in and week out to play in the ACC.

The same goes for the P12, why put your minor teams in the position to be flying to Washington State, Oregon, or California?

Right now, they make money comparable to the B10 and SEC and really only have to beat each other for a shot at the playoffs and only have to make limited out of the region trips to WVU.

Makes no sense for them to go elsewhere. They want access to the playoffs and they have it in the B12.

Who else is gonna let Texas have its network and let Oklahoma not participate in the ESPN+ package?

There is no push for expansion by other P5 leagues at the moment.

The thing to watch is how accessible the playoffs are/become in the next few years to Oklahoma and Texas if either are winning 11-12 games each season. Are they in the playoff mix? Playoff Expansion effectively kills Conference Expansion, because it makes it unnecessary.

Conference expansion would be considered by other P5 leagues if rumors swirled that Texas or Oklahoma were looking at other options. They would try to lure them in as a package deal, but OU probably doesn’t go anywhere without OK State. Politics could derail a lot of plans.

I still think a move by the B12 to bring in two more teams and drop back to 8 conference games in order to schedule their way to 10 wins each season and bolster the appearance of league strength for playoff contention is a possibility. Memphis and Cincinnati make sense from a geographical perspective and from a population perspective for expanding the footprint and appeal of the espn+ subscription service. Both have shown an attempt to be competitive in football and basketball.

In a given year WVU would have a schedule consisting of 8 conference games (evened out at 4 home and 4 away), and then a possible nonconference schedule of an FCS school and 3 regional games from a potential pool of opponents consisting of:

Pitt
Penn State
Virginia Tech
Louisville
Syracuse
Boston College
Maryland
UVA
Rutgers

Or possibly a neutral site game.

So we probably are looking at possibly 7 home games every other year. Travel demands on fans would be lessened a bit.

But I know... we are connoisseurs of fine football, not just mere fans... we can’t be asked to regularly play teams the likes of Memphis and Cincinnati. Our gentlemen and ladies would be appalled at the idea of lowering ourselves to those standards.

If change is imminent, negotiations for new contracts will begin about 2022-23, a couple years before the current contact expires.

.

Because FOX is attempting to undermine the Big 12.
FOX/B1G has circled Texas as their #15 school.

Without FOX you don't have much leverage so the Big 12 is now looking at other ways to broadcast their games.

ESPN+ is just a test. Everyone already knows Texas and OU fans would purchase a cable package or pay 5.99 a month to watch their teams.

 

[skygusty_rivals]

Expand the playoffs to 8 then lets get the SEC and the Big12 together and do a back room deal and have them swap out Arkansas and WVU. Same amount of hillbillies in each conference and less travel for all.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

The CFP games have been horrible.

Unless they start drawing huge audiences you won't see expansion.

You are taking away from the good and adding to the bad.
The regular season still controls college football and conferences don't want to change that.
At least 3 of them. Both the PAC 12 and B1G want to expand. It is mainly because of FOX.


But conferences don't want to share more of that money when they can negotiate the regular season games and keep that money.

 

[spartansstink]

Expand the playoffs to 8 then lets get the SEC and the Big12 together and do a back room deal and have them swap out Arkansas and WVU. Same amount of hillbillies in each conference and less travel for all.

Best answer so far.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Expand the playoffs to 8 then lets get the SEC and the Big12 together and do a back room deal and have them swap out Arkansas and WVU. Same amount of hillbillies in each conference and less travel for all.

When you say backdoor and hillbillies in a back room with a swap just doesn't sound like a good thing.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Matters where in Arkansas you are at. It is in the Delta. They are not all hillbillies.

WVU would not be able to contend with all schools like Texas and Oklahoma.
The financial support isn't there for the SEC.

 

[Buckaineer]

The BIG 12 has been third in television ratings among the power conferences despites leagues like the acc being hyped far more .

To think that somehow, someway the BIG 12 is not goi g to be offered great contracts is just wishful OOC troll spin by those coveting BIG 12 schools.

We see many of these shills here-- telling Mountaineer fans that the second winningest coach ever at WVU is awful, and one that has WVU at the bottom of the barrel is great.

Yeah, great for their schools which will now go after recruits WVU wanted.

The BIG 12 is as strong a conference as any out there.

Because they are developing new tier three outlets i.e. Espn +, then they might decide its in their interests to add more inventory for this outlet in the form of additional schools. Theres no chance the BIG 12 is not going to be offered major significant contracts in 2025 unless no conference is.

 

[Buckaineer]

The playoff will expand in 2026, and some schools may reevaluate their conferences due to greed and pay to play changes, but the BIG 12 and all its current members are not going to be going somewhere else.

Good chance theyll add programs to help with both playoff participation and inventory for their third tier outlet as well as boosting their top tier one and two events.

 

[op2]

If Texas and Oklahoma stick around then yeah, the Big 12 is good. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

And I don't see that adding programs helps any. There's enough inventory. And there's more than enough teams for the playoff, since few even make it now. It's not like if the Big 12 added UCF or Cincy they'd start making the playoff.

I can't stand that ESPN has so much influence. My dream is that the conferences sell the games to more than one network so that when a game is on, you have a choice on which network to watch. If that happens I'd never watch a game on ESPN and I think lots of other people are the same way.

 

[GhostofGraves]

"We see many of these shills here-- telling Mountaineer fans that the second winningest coach ever at WVU is awful, and one that has WVU at the bottom of the barrel is great.

"Yeah, great for their schools which will now go after recruits WVU wanted."

You mean like Lamy Constant, who had offers from everyone?

 

[doneagain]

Matters where in Arkansas you are at. It is in the Delta. They are not all hillbillies.

WVU would not be able to contend with all schools like Texas and Oklahoma.
The financial support isn't there for the SEC.

I try to take you serious, but it just isn’t possible. That money hasn’t helped Texas dominate poor ole WVU. It takes WVU having an absolute down year before Texas can beat us, and I am not even talking about a mediocre year for WVU, it takes a down year, and that isn’t just in football.

 

[Buckaineer]

- yeah i mean, if FSU and Clemson stick around, then the acc is good , otherwise im not so sure.

-- and what about Ohio State and Michigan? I mean, if that league loses those two then its probably lights out!

Obviously the wolves are not only at the gate, theyve been allowed through. They continue to be on this board and others with the sole intent of undermining WVU and the BIG 12 with baseless, wild speculation.

 

[Buckaineer]

Adding BIG 12 inventory allows the conference to make more money with their third tier rights and tier one and two rights, gain more exposure for the conference schools, attract more recruits from a broader base to all the schools.

Adding to the BIG 12 also eliminates to phony exclusion of the BIG 12 in favor of schools like Clemson which can easily run through its conference each year, play a patsy in the acc CCG and go into the playoff highly ranked.

You eliminate the round robin and guaranteed CCG rematch which also improves everyone in ability to have more wins and higher rankings as well.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Adding to the Big 12 will not happen until playoffs expand and all P5 champions get a playoff spot.

 

[Buckaineer]

If the BIG 12 expands it will be as they renew their next contracts--which happens the year before the next point at which the playoff can be expanded.

Even if the playoff expands, the BIG 12 will be well suited to have more members, as the acc and SEC are using having 14 members with 8 conference games only, multiple G5 matchups at home each year--to get multiple members ranked, and nearly a guarantee of a playoff participation. The SEC is frequently in line to get 2, based on nothing but that they often don't meet each other or play difficult OOC schedules, and thereby get wins.

The Big Ten likewise, by have separate divisions is always in line to get a playoff participant even when most of the league is overated and/or not doing well outside of Ohio State.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Big 12 will not expand. Does not compute without extension playoffs.

 

[doneagain]

Adding to the Big 12 will not happen until playoffs expand and all P5 champions get a playoff spot.

You are absolutely right in that expanding the playoffs to include all P5 conference champions would eliminate the need to expand the B12. If it goes to 8, Texas and Oklahoma are guaranteed a way to win their way into the playoffs, as is every other team in every P5 conference.

Right now, you need to be undefeated and/or a blue blood (depending) to get a shot at the playoffs.

No one can convince me that TCU couldn’t have won the championship the year they were left out and Ohio State was moved in and went on to win the title. It is no certainty that they would have won, but if an OSU team that lost to VT that same year could win it, there is no reason to assume TCU could not have done the same thing. But now we will never know.

If the magic number was 8 back then with automatic bids for conference titles, TCU would have at least had a shot.

If playoff expansion does not occur, and the B12 gets left out again 2-3 times over the next 5-6 years, look for expansion to become a huge topic again.

As I said before, Cincy and Memphis make the most sense in my opinion. One thing not often discussed about expansion teams: by taking those two teams the B12 moves into B10 territory and expands into SEC territory (A&M is already in Texas) and those conference’s media members will have to pay more attention to what is going on in the B12 because the B12 will have a presence in Ohio and Tennessee. May not make much difference, but notoriety is never a bad things when it comes to voters in media polls.

 

[TownesVanZandt_rivals]

Will

I try to take you serious, but it just isn’t possible. That money hasn’t helped Texas dominate poor ole WVU. It takes WVU having an absolute down year before Texas can beat us, and I am not even talking about a mediocre year for WVU, it takes a down year, and that isn’t just in football.

They have dominated you across the board.

Only sport that WVU has held its own is womens soccer.

But like I said you have multiple schools like Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC that play all sports at a high level.

Arkansas is one of the best track schools historically and have placed themselves as a power in college baseball under Van Horn.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

From SB NATION - 2017, Sept.

The schools have a deal to stick together until June 2025. Their commish is now locked in until then, too.

The Big 12’s grant of rights expires exactly when Bowlsby’s deal does.

The Big 12’s presidents clearly think he’s doing a good job. They’re just not sure he’ll have a league to run beyond the last day of the contract he just signed.

When the grant of rights expires, the Big 12 might expire, too.

Nothing’s certain. Predicting how the conference landscape will look in eight years is difficult if not impossible, and the Big 12’s plans might change (and then change again, and again) in the years between now and June 30, 2025.

So it’s possible that some of the Big 12’s teams will get poached by other conferences once the grant of rights nears its expiration. Given that the league has only 10 teams, it really can’t shrink further and survive as a powerful athletic conference — especially if any of the teams leaving happened to be powers like Texas and Oklahoma.

If the Big 12 went away, its teams would probably scatter all around the country.

Many more boring big 12 opinion replies are welcome, with thoughts and possibilities. Expiration is only 6 years from expiring.

This board needs a switch from Butt-kaineer circle jerk replies and threads.

So here is a repeat realignment boredom thread.

I’m confused Allen. Why are you regurgitating some 2 year old story stating the obvious about things Cockaineer dreams about?

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Expanding the playoffs would save Big 12 / Pac 12 and bring no need for any expansion.

PAC12 doesn’t need saved haha. The Big12 maybe.

 

[Buckaineer]

Expanding the BIG 12 gives the BIG 12 the ability to land TWO playoff participants each year just like the SEC and Big Ten.

Expanding the BIG 12 allows the BIG 12 to earn more money for tier 1,2 and 3 rights and gain more exposure to fans and recruits than possible now.

Allows for more NCAA participation as well. More bowl games too.

Lots of beneficial aspects to expansion just as with the other conferences.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Expanding the BIG 12 gives the BIG 12 the ability to land TWO playoff participants each year just like the SEC and Big Ten.

Expanding the BIG 12 allows the BIG 12 to earn more money for tier 1,2 and 3 rights and gain more exposure to fans and recruits than possible now.

Allows for more NCAA participation as well. More bowl games too.

Lots of beneficial aspects to expansion just as with the other conferences.

Dude you really are tone deaf haha. You’re talking two teams when Big12 is lucky if Oklahoma, and only Oklahoma, gets in. Why don’t you wait until the Big12 actually wins a playoff game. The Big12 sucks and no one cares what happens in Hicktown, USA.

 

[WVUFanForever]

gregor is too stupid to realize that half the conference is ranked...the acc has no one but clemson....yet the Big XII sucks.....

You really are all sorts of stupid aren't your gregor.

The fat, nerdy kid took your spot on the baseball and basketball teams when you were younger didn't he? Then the band geek stole your ugly girlfriend in high school.

Hell....maybe we really should feel sorry for gregor....poor kid has nothing.

 

[doneagain]

Will


They have dominated you across the board.

Only sport that WVU has held its own is womens soccer.

But like I said you have multiple schools like Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC that play all sports at a high level.

Arkansas is one of the best track schools historically and have placed themselves as a power in college baseball under Van Horn.

You are 4-5 in football against WVU. You are 11-8 against WVU men’s basketball, and 2 of those wins came last year during our worst season in history. But yeah, you dominate across the board. But now that Texas is “back” I guess we will never win again.

Despite the garbage you continue to spew trying to convince everyone you are the everlasting know-it-all, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Auburn or Tennessee are not annual juggernauts.

We have played Georgia and beaten them. We have played Florida and beaten them. We have played Auburn and beaten them. We played LSU and Bama in the last 10 years and they sure as heck didn’t blow us out the way you make out like we never stand a chance.

As I have said before, nobody is more incompetent at running an athletic program than Texas.

Nobody does less with more than Texas. All that money. All those recruits. All that publicity. All that fan support. Your own tv channel. And the annual question is whether Texas will finally be back this year, etc...

There are about 50 schools out there that would compete for a national title every single year if they had the wasted resources Texas wastes every single year in failure.

 

[roadtrasheer]

I'm up for expanding the playoffs but a problem is a lack of weeks to do it in and part of the reason for that is the week used for the conference title games, which doesn't narrow the field at all but just nudges some teams out and others in. They should get rid of the conference title games and use that week as the first round of the playoffs. Have the games be on campus, with the higher seed getting home field advantage.

You may ask "But how will the giant 14 team conferences determine their champions?" Answer: That's their problem. Fourteen teams is ridiculous big for a conference anyway since it means some schools go years without even playing other conference-mates. Maybe getting rid of the conference title games will give conference an incentive to shrink.

Conference champs should represent the conference in the expanded playoff, making the conference championship part of the playoffs

 

[WVUALLEN]

I’m confused Allen. Why are you regurgitating some 2 year old story stating the obvious about things Cockaineer dreams about?

Because I can.

 

[WVUALLEN]

PAC12 doesn’t need saved haha. The Big12 maybe.

What's the PAC done lately?

Extending playoffs helps both PAC and Big 12 which only has 10 teams.

 

[op2]

Conference champs should represent the conference in the expanded playoff, making the conference championship part of the playoffs

You can call conference title games part of the playoff if you like but playoff games that don't whittle down the field are kinda pointless. A conference title game might knock one team out of the playoff but it puts another team in.

The NUMBER of teams in the playoffs is the same after the conference title games as it was before the conference title games. Thus, in terms of narrowing the field, they are useless and they just take up a week of time that could be devoted to playoff games the do narrow the field.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

What's the PAC done lately?

Extending playoffs helps both PAC and Big 12 which only has 10 teams.

Keep up Allen. The poster included PAC12 in same spot as no GOR Big12. The PAC sucks but because of where they are they will always survive. When was the last time the PAC lost a team. Oh wait! PAC came and took a Big12 team.

Mic drop