BIG PICTURE perspective on Kailo and what it means

[shotgunDawg]

So, as we all now know Kailo Moore decommitted from MSU this afternoon in a move that shouldn't have surprised any MSU fan with half a brain. Why is that you say? Who knows to what lengths the OM fans, alumni, and coaches went to in order to get Kailo to decommit, but in the end Kailo decommitted because he grew up an OM fan that was where his heart was. The way he handled this situation was a complete joke and shows his complete lack of a nut sack, and due to that, who knows if he actually made this decision or had Tony Connor make it for him last week, as people without nut sacks tend to be easily swayed, but in the end I truly believe that Kailo went with his heart. He committed to OM last year, and then decommitted because Nutt was fired and their program was in shambles. However, Freeze has come in and given major hope to their future, and just like any of us would do if MSU was the school and not OM, Kailo went with his heart.

Now, how does this effect us? There is no question that Kailo is a loss we would have liked to have, and that replacing him won't be easy. However, there is a reason 180 pound slot receivers or running backs don't go in the first round of the NFL draft, and defensive ends, O-lineman, QBs, and corners do. From a team building perspective, this isn't much of set back and will be less of one if we can replace Kailo with another fast scat back type player. That being said, we MUST get Shumpert, or we will have effectively been killed in-state on the top players. Our staff must do a better job of recruiting skill players. They have done an admirable job at other positions, but the fast kids just don't seem to like us and really like OM. Maybe they are divas, and too many divas cause problems, but well placed divas in a good system with good horses around them, really help you win games. Our coaches need to get a little better at recruiting some diva playmakers.

With all this being said, Kailo's decision further illustrates why you can't put all your eggs in the Mississippi basket, and why Dan Mullen's new position coach hire doesn't need to be someone from Mississippi. By recruiting Mississippi hard, we are going to get some Jon Banks and Chris Jones types. We must continue to focus on not letting those guys fall through the cracks, but now that Mullen has been here for 4 years and has built up connections in the state, it is time for us to expand.

It doesn't matter how hard you recruit Mississippi, their are always gonna be kids that grew up OM fans and kids that grew up State fans. Due to that, it is virtually impossible for any one school to completely dominate Mississippi recruiting, and there aren't enough players in the state to be a good team without having to completely dominate the in-state recruiting land-scape. Right now there are kids in the mid-west, Texas, North Carolina, and Virginia that want to play in the SEC because it is THE POWER CONFERENCE. Just as Brewster has shown, we can get these kids interested in MSU and willing to take a visits. Us and OM are now getting interest from 4 star and 5 star prospects from beyond our boarders. That something that has very rarely happened in our histories. Because of all this, Mullen needs to use his open position to hire a big time recruiter that can walk into the mid-west, Texas, or North Carolina/Virginia and recruit his butt off. These states are good high school football states that don't have SEC schools, other than TAMU, with kids that WANT to play against and with the best. They are ripe for picking. We must take advantage of that situation now and hire a big time recruiter from one of those states.



The Kailo situation just shows that no Mississippi school from here till eternity will get all the good players in the state. We are part of the SEC and we should use that and go national.

 

[121Josey]

The Kailo situation just shows that no Mississippi school from here till eternity will get all the good players in the state. We are part of the SEC and we should use that and go national.

Thanks for this babble. I think I disagreed on about every point. Especially the "go national" bit: We're not a top tier SEC school and we don't promote ourselves as a top tier party-school. If we get 7 or 8 of the Top 10 recruits from Miss. annually, 3 or 4 elite jucos, and add a few more highly rated prospects from the south, we've done well.

 

[shotgunDawg]

You are correct on your points Josey, and by doing that we will have a chance to continue to go to bowls. However, I am thinking more of how we take the next step with our program. I agree that the focus must be Mississippi first, but I feel that since this staff is going on year 5 here, they should have enough connections within the state to not have to invest in another position coach with Mississippi ties in order to recruit it. There simply aren't enough players in MS to win the SEC. We must do well here, but also pull some from other parts of the country. If we are content with getting 7 of the top 10 MS players and some good JUCOs, then we also need to be content with finishing between 4th and 7th in our division every year. Futhermore, there is major opportunity in other states right now outside of the SEC footprint. We would be stupid and small minded not to take advantage of that.

Believe it or not, in 2 weeks, once our new facility opens, we will have some of the best facilities in the country. I truly believe MSU can become a destination school. If you don't think so, Why?

 

[engie]

Thanks for this babble. I think I disagreed on about every point. Especially the "go national" bit: We're not a top tier SEC school and we don't promote ourselves as a top tier party-school. If we get 7 or 8 of the Top 10 recruits from Miss. annually, 3 or 4 elite jucos, and add a few more highly rated prospects from the south, we've done well.

We are a mid-tier SEC school that could easy finish in the top 25 for the 2nd time in 3 years with a bowl victory. The SEC is the place to be nationally right now -- in a trend that is continuing to grow more and more in our favor. That's why we've now got 10 teams in the top 27 in recruiting rankings(24/7 composite) -- by far the most conference dominance ever seen in recruiting.

We are to the point that we can go into Indiana and take kids from Indiana schools -- into North Carolina and take kids from the Tar Heels, etc. That is what he meant by recruiting nationally, and I wholeheartedly agree with it. Brewster is opening alot of eyes in this regard. We are in the game with 4 and 5* talents RIGHT NOW from Tennessee, Indiana, Florida, and California. Those doors are in the process of opening for us -- and they never have been before.

We need to hire another nationally elite recruiter in the same vein as Brewster. 2 guys like that and we are in business...

Let's not forget that both of Auburn's former "closers" under Chizik are still out there on the market.

 

[121Josey]

The easiest way to recruit is win games. I'd much rather see us make the right on-field hire than recruiters (i.e., Hudspeth). We may go into the Indianas, North Carolinas and recruit, but so are the Ohio States, Michigans, Clemsons, Florida State's etc, not to mention the top tier SEC schools. Until we PLAY nationally, we can't expect to recruit nationally. More times than naught, a recruit will stay within driving distance of mama. Sure, Brewster has done a heck of a job recruiting outside the south, but that's more because of his ability than just that we play in the SEC.

Alabama is recruiting nationally. They pass over a lot of kids that want to play there. These kids don't want to go to Auburn. We can set up shop in West AL. Same for Louisiana. Texas A&M makes us relevant for Texas.

Easily Top 25?
AP poll - no votes
Coaches Poll - Others receiving votes: Kent State 84, Vanderbilt 75, Cincinnati 46, Tulsa 32, Fresno State 31, Rutgers 29, San Diego State 23, Arkansas State 20, Oklahoma State 15, Mississippi State 9, Arizona State 8, Louisiana Tech 2, USC 2

 

[shotgunDawg]

I am not disagreeing with you Josey, but Ole Miss didn't have to win games to recruit better. We need more talent, and we need coaches that can go into other parts of the country and sell MSU and the SEC. I truly believe we can do that.

Plus, I wouldn't be as sold on doing it if we had a new staff. Mississippi must be first, but our staff has been here long enough now accomplish that without having to have a coach that is just responsible of the Delta, AKA Melvin Smith. MSU is so much bigger and our facilities are so much better now to have to just rely on the Delta to get recruits.

 

[121Josey]

I am not disagreeing with you Josey, but Ole Miss didn't have to win games to recruit better. We need more talent, and we need coaches that can go into other parts of the country and sell MSU and the SEC. I truly believe we can do that.

Plus, I wouldn't be as sold on doing it if we had a new staff. Mississippi must be first, but our staff has been here long enough now accomplish that without having to have a coach that is just responsible of the Delta, AKA Melvin Smith. MSU is so much bigger and our facilities are so much better now to have to just rely on the Delta to get recruits.

1. TSUN did win more games. The SEC games that they lost they played well. On the other hand, have they done better recruiting? They have signed some elite JUCOs. They are in the game with some top recruits, but no COMMITMENTS. Yes, let's bank on waiting until national signing day on having an above average class.** Plus, TSUN owes more to Denzel Kimdeechee for its recruitment buzz than anything else.

2. Have most of our recruits come from the Delta? And recruiting isn't all about keeping the recruits happy and their face-time, but it's also about staying in the good graces of the HS coaches.

 

[Todd4State]

I think the base of our team is always going to come from Mississippi. I really think if we go away from that, we will be in trouble down the road. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to recruit nationally- but we shouldn't put all of our chips in national recruits either.

I figure on average, Mississippi produces about 15 legit D-I prospects a year. It's not realistic that we are going to get every single one of the top 15, and it certainly doesn't mean we should abandon that focus if we lose an Ole Miss legacy such as Buchanan or a guy from South Panola to Ole Miss. I do think it's very realistic to get 10-12 of the top 15. I believe we will do that this year and we have really started to take over Mississippi for the most part. Conceivably you could almost build a starting offense and defense signing 10-12 of the best players every two years out of Mississippi. Again, that probably won't happen- but I think I've made my point.

Beyond that, we should probably try to get 3-5 athlete type players from Mississippi which we have also done a very good job of doing, and we should also try to get 3-5 "football player" type guys- I think Taylor Polk is a good example of what I'm talking about. Someone that maybe doesn't have all the measureables, but he makes plays, hustles, and is a good football player. We may need to do a little bit better in that arena. We have a strong JUCO system that we should use to fill holes and we can get good players from there as well.

Now assuming that we sign 25 a year- that leaves room to sign a few National recruits. I think the question is how many national recruits can we reasonably expect to get in a year? I don't know the answer to that, but I think this year may tell us a little more about that. Brewster has opened some doors for us, but we still haven't landed a Jalen Ramsey- yet. We'll see if that happens or not. If I had to guess, getting five national recruits is probably on the high end for us. But again, we'll see. I may re-evaluate that in a month.

I think the reality is- unless proven otherwise- we need to find different avenues to find good players. Jackie used JUCO's as his avenue and had tremendous success. I think Brewster has gotten us into Team USA football, and we've already gotten two commits from what I think are two very solid players. And we'll see how many more we can get out of that program. That may very well be Dan's avenue for getting talented players. I think it's very encouraging that the two players committed are skill players. But back to one of points about players from Mississippi- one of those commits, Robert Washington, has ties to Mississippi.

I don't know how many Team USA players we will actually get at this point- if Washington helps us get 25 of them that's fine with me. But you combine Team USA players with about 10 of the top players in Mississippi, and you're going to have a darn good team.

 

[engie]

The easiest way to recruit is win games. I'd much rather see us make the right on-field hire than recruiters (i.e., Hudspeth). We may go into the Indianas, North Carolinas and recruit, but so are the Ohio States, Michigans, Clemsons, Florida State's etc, not to mention the top tier SEC schools. Until we PLAY nationally, we can't expect to recruit nationally. More times than naught, a recruit will stay within driving distance of mama. Sure, Brewster has done a heck of a job recruiting outside the south, but that's more because of his ability than just that we play in the SEC.

Alabama is recruiting nationally. They pass over a lot of kids that want to play there. These kids don't want to go to Auburn. We can set up shop in West AL. Same for Louisiana. Texas A&M makes us relevant for Texas.

Easily Top 25?
AP poll - no votes
Coaches Poll - Others receiving votes: Kent State 84, Vanderbilt 75, Cincinnati 46, Tulsa 32, Fresno StatSeriously? Half of all these teams are going to lose their bowl games -- including us beating a top 25 team. Bowl season gives the single greatest fluctuation in the polls of any week throughout the season. We win, we will finish top 25 in at least one of the polls.
e 31, Rutgers 29, San Diego State 23, Arkansas State 20, Oklahoma State 15, Mississippi State 9, Arizona State 8, Louisiana Tech 2, USC 2

I fail to see what point you are trying to make about Hudspeth? He is BEST KNOWN as a lights out MS recruiter. He was our ace on the staff previously. That's where he earned his bones. He's proven to be a very good head coach and position coach as well.

So, you are saying we don't need to recruit these other areas? How do you explain Elijah Daniel? Etc. Fact is, we are on the precipice of getting to the point that we can outrecruit EVEN some of the schools you listed because kids WANT TO PLAY IN THE SEC. How do you otherwise explain what Ole Miss is selling? Treadwell to OM over Michigan? What exactly do they have that we don't? The answer is nothing. They just did a better job of selling their program and recruiting these national guys early and often this year for the most part.

Brewster is an ace national recruiter. That's what I said we need another of. I even labeled two of them that are still out there job hunting. If "winning games" got national recruits, Boise St would have surely been better than #50 right now in recruiting rankings -- and Kansas St would be better than #44.

I prefer getting a blue chip out of Indiana to getting a leftover that Auburn and Alabama didn't offer in AL. Simple truth of it. You are kidding yourself if you are honestly trying to imply that we can compete with Auburn for Alabama recruits that they want. They will get a significant portion of the top recruits in that state every year -- and ALMOST as many players in that state want to play at Auburn as Alabama. Where Bama smokes them are in the national guys.

Fact is, why is it an either/or proposition? Why can we not do both and do them well?

 

[121Josey]

I fail to see what point you are trying to make about Hudspeth? He is BEST KNOWN as a lights out MS recruiter. He was our ace on the staff previously. That's where he earned his bones. He's proven to be a very good head coach and position coach as well.

Hudspeth is a d*mn good coach. Look at the program's where he's been vs. when he wasn't. And just to reiterate, you said "MS recruiter" - not a nationally elite recruiter.

So, you are saying we don't need to recruit these other areas? How do you explain Elijah Daniel? Etc.

We came in late in the process. He wants to play with Kimdeechee. I don't really call recruiting against TSUN competitive. For recruiting nationally, I'm for chasing a few prospects yearly if they share a mutual interest. Our make or break point will never be outside of the south. You're the one asking for another national recruiter.

Fact is, we are on the precipice of getting to the point that we can outrecruit EVEN some of the schools you listed because kids WANT TO PLAY IN THE SEC. How do you otherwise explain what Ole Miss is selling?

TSUN = Party school

Treadwell to OM over Michigan? What exactly do they have that we don't? The answer is nothing. They just did a better job of selling their program and recruiting these national guys early and often this year for the most part.

Post #56 http://www.sectalk.com/board/topic/99533-ole-miss-recruiting/page__st__45
The Laquon Treadwell recruitment is similar to the Nkemdiche recruitment. Treadwell is best friends with current Ole Miss DB Anthony Standifer and due to family situations has lived in and out with the Standifer family. It also does not hurt that he has stated that he wants to go somewhere with an established receiver (Moncrief) as well as a high profiled recruiting class.

Brewster is an ace national recruiter. That's what I said we need another of. I even labeled two of them that are still out there job hunting. If "winning games" got national recruits, Boise St would have surely been better than #50 right now in recruiting rankings -- and Kansas St would be better than #44.

Of course you know it's not all tied to record. If it was all about SEC, UPig, KU, UT, etc would all be in the Top 20. And try this link too: http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/m

I prefer getting a blue chip out of Indiana to getting a leftover that Auburn and Alabama didn't offer in AL. Simple truth of it. You are kidding yourself if you are honestly trying to imply that we can compete with Auburn for Alabama recruits that they want.

I never said anything about competing with Auburn and Alabama. I'd prefer to get a yearly 4-star (say 90 rating) that Alabama has passed over than to get one blue chip (say a 95) from Indiana every 5 years.

ETA: Wasn't B. Brown from AL last year? It was between us and - wait for it - Auburn.

They will get a significant portion of the top recruits in that state every year -- and ALMOST as many players in that state want to play at Auburn as Alabama. Where Bama smokes them are in the national guys.

I don't want them all. I just want a few. And that brings us back to the original topic, we've got to win games to compete against Auburn in AL.

 

[engie]

Hudspeth is a d*mn good coach. Look at the program's where he's been vs. when he wasn't. And just to reiterate, you said "MS recruiter" - not a nationally elite recruiter.

Hud has never been given a platform to BE a nationally elite recruiter. We don't know if he is or not. Based on how well he does in MS, I'd dare say he probably could be nationally elite. Same as Freeze at Arkansas St -- No one knew just how good he would be on the recruiting front from his time there. I'm saying that he locks up MS almost on reputation alone -- those close to different programs, both hs and JUCO from around the state, confirm just how highly he's regarded at those places.

We came in late in the process. He wants to play with Kimdeechee. I don't really call recruiting against TSUN competitive. For recruiting nationally, I'm for chasing a few prospects yearly if they share a mutual interest. Our make or break point will never be outside of the south. You're the one asking for another national recruiter.

Not really. We've been on him for at least 6 months -- approximately the same amount of time as Ole Miss. Competing with Ole Miss simply makes the point that we both have a chance to recruit on that level. We are both beating out Florida, Indiana, Arizona St, and 30 other (many elite) programs for the same guy.

Of course you know it's not all tied to record. If it was all about SEC, UPig, KU, UT, etc would all be in the Top 20. And try this link too: http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/m

You listed 3 programs that are all undergoing a coaching change with entire staff turnover. Arkansas and Tennessee both recruit in the top 25 perennially. Kentucky just hired a staff full of ace recruiters. Their numbers are about to improve drastically. Once again proving that being in the SEC has a ton to do with it. This time next year, assuming things keep to the current course of improvement, there could easily be 12 or 13 SEC teams in the top 30 in the recruiting rankings.

I never said anything about competing with Auburn and Alabama. I'd prefer to get a yearly 4-star (say 90 rating) that Alabama has passed over than to get one blue chip (say a 95) from Indiana every 5 years.

ETA: Wasn't B. Brown from AL last year? It was between us and - wait for it - Auburn.

And I say...why can we not do both?

We have GOT to find a couple of elite gamechangers at skill positions. This is the biggest hole in our team right now. We have solid guys/solid depth everywhere -- but no skill guys stepping up to become elite yet.

Beniquez was indeed from Alabama. His offer from Auburn did not become committable until the weekend before NSD after Aub missed on some other LB prospects. They didn't even offer him an official visit until that point in time. Even then, there was significant worry that he would flip on NSD. Had they come after him 2 weeks earlier, it wouldn't have likely been good for us...

Like I say. I want to do ALL of this. Of course, our class will always have to be foundationally based on Mississippi kids. That's a given. We've done pretty well in La, Al, and Tn over the past couple of years -- I want to continue to see that improve. I'm simply saying that there is no reason it should be an either/or proposition. That's just "old MSU" thought process seeping through -- in a time we no longer face many of the same limitations that have held MSU back traditionally.

 

[Palos verdes]

We won't sign elite type playmakers on offense until we either adopt a modern scheme, or get a coach that favors a more contemporary system. Even then it will be tough. Our current offense (with its lack of playmaking speed) will continue to struggle for yards against good defenses which will continue to result in the same outcome. We are in a bad spot so to speak, as we have a coach commited to our program that runs a style of offense that will only work consistently with elite talent in every position. That's why it works for Bama but won't work for us.

Meanwhile, other programs, ones kinda like us, are making the switch to a fast paced variation. Unfortunately, that means we will have to try and outscore the new Arky State and Troys of the SEC west, from now on. We desperately need game changing playmakers on offense. Losing KM hurts.

 

[maroonmania]

Ironic you would say this given Mullen was hired...

We won't sign elite type playmakers on offense until we either adopt a modern scheme, or get a coach that favors a more contemporary system. Even then it will be tough. Our current offense (with its lack of playmaking speed) will continue to struggle for yards against good defenses which will continue to result in the same outcome. We are in a bad spot so to speak, as we have a coach commited to our program that runs a style of offense that will only work consistently with elite talent in every position. That's why it works for Bama but won't work for us. Meanwhile, other programs, ones kinda like us, are making the switch to a fast paced variation. Unfortunately, that means we will have to try and outscore the new Arky State and Troys of the SEC west, from now on. We desperately need game changing playmakers on offense. Losing KM hurts.

on the basis of a much more modern offensive scheme than what MSU had ever run before and one that had garnered Florida two NCs.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

We won't sign elite type playmakers on offense until we either adopt a modern scheme, or get a coach that favors a more contemporary system. Even then it will be tough. Our current offense (with its lack of playmaking speed) will continue to struggle for yards against good defenses which will continue to result in the same outcome. We are in a bad spot so to speak, as we have a coach commited to our program that runs a style of offense that will only work consistently with elite talent in every position. That's why it works for Bama but won't work for us.

Meanwhile, other programs, ones kinda like us, are making the switch to a fast paced variation. Unfortunately, that means we will have to try and outscore the new Arky State and Troys of the SEC west, from now on. We desperately need game changing playmakers on offense. Losing KM hurts.

i think we do run a modern system. we need to focus on speeding up the offense though. but in general, the spread offense (whether passing based, i.e. leach era texas tech, or option based, i.e. oregon, utah under meyer, rich rod wvu, etc) is the great equalizer. we have obviously improved a lot over where we were pre-mullen, but we haven't managed to make that next jump to truly elite offense like the previously mentioned schools. and it's not like those schools were recruiting on an elite level to build those offenses (though more recently oregon has started recruiting much better).

i think right now, dan is holding us back.* he's playing not to lose rather than playing to win with regards to the speed of the offense (no huddle, hurry up) and the playcalling, and while that's going to consistently win us 6-8 games per year, we aren't going to take that next jump and regularly beat/compete with the 9+ game winning programs until we start at least trying to control the pace of the game on the offensive side of the ball and just go for the jugular.

*this is not calling for dan's head or wishing we had another coach, or anything like that, i've been a lifelong msu fan and went to msu from '00 to '04, so i know how bad it can be. and i'm thankful that with dan, i don't foresee us becoming a laughing stock again. i think we'll regularly make lower- to mid-tier bowls. i'm just pointing out the most glaring fault i see with dan, that he plays not to lose.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

Hudspeth is a d*mn good coach.

Is that better than saying damn?

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Todd gets it. But all you really did is regurgitate what I pretty much say weekly about MSU recrootin.

 

[esplanade91]

i think we do run a modern system. we need to focus on speeding up the offense though. but in general, the spread offense (whether passing based, i.e. leach era texas tech, or option based, i.e. oregon, utah under meyer, rich rod wvu, etc) is the great equalizer. we have obviously improved a lot over where we were pre-mullen, but we haven't managed to make that next jump to truly elite offense like the previously mentioned schools. and it's not like those schools were recruiting on an elite level to build those offenses (though more recently oregon has started recruiting much better).

i think right now, dan is holding us back.* he's playing not to lose rather than playing to win with regards to the speed of the offense (no huddle, hurry up) and the playcalling, and while that's going to consistently win us 6-8 games per year, we aren't going to take that next jump and regularly beat/compete with the 9+ game winning programs until we start at least trying to control the pace of the game on the offensive side of the ball and just go for the jugular.

*this is not calling for dan's head or wishing we had another coach, or anything like that, i've been a lifelong msu fan and went to msu from '00 to '04, so i know how bad it can be. and i'm thankful that with dan, i don't foresee us becoming a laughing stock again. i think we'll regularly make lower- to mid-tier bowls. i'm just pointing out the most glaring fault i see with dan, that he plays not to lose.

What? Russell threw 20+ TD's and has a shot at 3,000 yards in the bowl... How is that not a jump? Those stats BLOW OUT previous records. We build on that in 2013. That's called a jump.

Come on man.