Bowl Team or Beating PSU

[StevieB160]

Are these poll results serious?

Penn State at that point would be either no.1 or no.2 in the country after having beaten both Michigan and Ohio State. Rutgers going in and beating Penn State on the road as probably a 30 point underdog would be the upset of the season and one of the two or three biggest wins in the 109 years of Rutgers football.

Instead, you'd rather crawl to six wins by beating a low-level FCS team, little brother Temple, an impotent Virginia Tech, lowly 3-win Indiana and two schools in crisis with no head coach. Then, drive to Detroit to take on Northern Illinois in a depressing bowl game?

I will note that the original question does suggest an improbable situation. If Penn State was undefeated going into the Rutgers game, that would mean they beat Ohio State and Michigan. A loss would not put them out of the college football playoff. With the wins against Michigan and Ohio State, they'd just need a win against Sparty the next week to clinch the Big Ten East. They'd undoubtedly still be in the playoff unless they lost again. However, the right answer to the question, whether Penn State was undefeated, had one loss or whatever, is clearly beating Penn State.

 

[Knightmancometh]

Are these poll results serious?

Penn State at that point would be either no.1 or no.2 in the country after having beaten both Michigan and Ohio State. Rutgers going in and beating Penn State on the road as probably a 30 point underdog would be the upset of the season and one of the two or three biggest wins in the 109 years of Rutgers football.

Instead, you'd rather crawl to six wins by beating a low-level FCS team, little brother Temple, an impotent Virginia Tech, lowly 3-win Indiana and two schools in crisis with no head coach. Then, drive to Detroit to take on Northern Illinois in a depressing bowl game?

I will note that the original question does suggest an improbable situation. If Penn State was undefeated going into the Rutgers game, that would mean they beat Ohio State and Michigan. A loss would not put them out of the college football playoff. With the wins against Michigan and Ohio State, they'd just need a win against Sparty the next week to clinch the Big Ten East. They'd undoubtedly still be in the playoff unless they lost again. However, the right answer to the question, whether Penn State was undefeated, had one loss or whatever, is clearly beating Penn State.

You make a strong point and that was my intention to that PSU would would be like #2 in the country.
But it was more for the savory fact that you cost them a chance at the national championship by beating them, so lets say in that scenario, they lose the big ten title game as well and 2 losses keep them out

 

[yesrutgers01]

As a fan, it makes some sense to say PSU but at a program and recruiting- it is the bowl game.
When recruiting and now, more so because we recruit national- a kid worries about NIL and success if the team, not winning a big upset but still not good enough to get to a stinking bowl.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

If we beat PSU it means we are going to a Bowl anyway.

This - that said, I’m surprised by the responses. For me, winning as many games as possible is always the objective. I hate losing. At this point, going 5-7 with a PSU win would mean we either lose this VTech game (yuck) or only win 2 conference games total. I’d rather win more overall.

 

[RUBOB72]

As much as any Rutgers fan would love to beat the PSU football team in State College my greatest memory was on a beautiful afternoon in 1988 watching Mike Botti, Scott Erney and Eric Young defeat the likes of NJ native Tony Sacca and a very talented PSU squad. We then also had that day a great defense. Yes , for me I want both to be true… is it this year? Let’s just win on Saturday . Stay injury free and take one game at a time. Beating PSU in front of 100k+ would certainly legitimize this program. Bowl games will follow … guaranteed.

 

[Scarlet16e2]

At the end of the day, our win versus PSU in 1988 stands out in my memory right up with our biggest bowl game wins.
And it's only happened the one time (in my life as a fan). So beating them trumps everything.

Now.. If you said the Rose Bowl (or any New Years 6 bowl game, or of course the playoff) I might feel differently.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Does winning a bowl game actually have any tangible importance?

Winning a bowl game, eh. Yes it's nice to have, but it usually doesn't move the barometer all that much. BUT, the extra weeks of practice leading up to a bowl game are very nice to have to do developmental work with those players who didn't see game action this season.

 

[Joey Bacala]

Yeah thats what i tried but it wouldn't let me either. I guess that because people already double voted. oh well i'll get it right next time

Thanks

It's highly unlikely that these would be mutually exclusive outcomes

 

[Knightmancometh]

It's highly unlikely that these would be mutually exclusive outcomes

yeah buts thats the fun of it, which would you rather

 

[RUScrew85]

I think I'd rather get a bowl bid then what would be regarded as a fluke win over Pedd State.

And if it weren't a fluke win we'd probably win eight games and a bowl with a team that's capable of non-fluke beating Pedd State.

I get the point the OP is trying to make so I'm going to take the bowl.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You make a strong point and that was my intention to that PSU would would be like #2 in the country.
But it was more for the savory fact that you cost them a chance at the national championship by beating them, so lets say in that scenario, they lose the big ten title game as well and 2 losses keep them out

The only way this would have meaning would be if we followed up with a win over Maryland. Otherwise it’s quickly forgotten in the wake of another disappointing season.

I hate losing so mainly I wouldn’t chose to lose an extra time to be able to beat PSU instead of beating Michigan State or Maryland.

 

[CollegeSenior]

This - that said, I’m surprised by the responses. For me, winning as many games as possible is always the objective. I hate losing. At this point, going 5-7 with a PSU win would mean we either lose this VTech game (yuck) or only win 2 conference games total. I’d rather win more overall.

RU has two wins and will have three with Wagner. Beating PSU would be four. That leaves 1-7 for the rest of the schedule for a 5-7 total. Like you, I am surprised by the responses.

 

[LeapinLou]

I've seen RU play in 11 bowl games. I've heard Rutgers beat PSU on the radio once and then saw a replay later of that same game.

So would I rather see a 12th bowl game or a first time seeing RU live beating a top 5 ranked PSU? I'll take door #2.

 

[RUBOB72]

RU has two wins and will have three with Wagner. Beating PSU would be four. That leaves 1-7 for the rest of the schedule for a 5-7 total. Like you, I am surprised by the responses.

I've seen RU play in 11 bowl games. I've heard Rutgers beat PSU on the radio once and then saw a replay later of that same game.

So would I rather see a 12th bowl game or a first time seeing RU live beating a top 5 ranked PSU? I'll take door #2.

Some posters are unable to get past the bowl or bust thinking. It is one of the program’s goal to achieve bowl status once again. Our fans want a bowl game in order to satisfy the years of frustration from not getting to the post season. Beating PSU does help with recruiting chops and perception especially if at State College… forget the “ it was a fluke win” whine. We can do both contrary to what some may think.

 

[RU05]

Does winning a bowl game actually have any tangible importance? Since the bowl games are designed to be relatively even matchups, it seems like which bowl game you qualify for measures more of an achievement than winning or losing the game. For example, losing in the Orange Bowl is more of an accomplishment than winning the Pinstripe Bowl. This is why I have a hard time getting excited to watch bowl games (other than the playoffs). Since your season ends whether you win or lose, it feels like a bunch of meaningless exhibition games to end the season.

Welp, it is something you put on your resume. "Made a bowl game" "Won a bowl game". And that is something to both fans and perspective recruits.

And it get's you to 7 wins, as opposed to the 5 win season where we beat PSU. Though I do acknowledge beating PSU carries weight.

 

[yesrutgers01]

So- let's say we won that L'Ville game in 06 but crapped the bed most the rest of the year and never made a bowl that season...Do you think the needle would have moved much?

Again- the big wins are nice but does NOTHING for the program on their own. I'm Coach Schiano and visiting a player and his family- what is more likely to attract a kid. "We finally beat PSU and ruined their season. Hopefully we can improve enough so that wins like that are not complete flukes" OR "We went to a bowl last year and have showed steady improvement since I have gotten here. I fully expect us to continue to grow and reach bowls games every year you are playing for us"

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Some posters are unable to get past the bowl or bust thinking. It is one of the program’s goal to achieve bowl status once again. Our fans want a bowl game in order to satisfy the years of frustration from not getting to the post season. Beating PSU does help with recruiting chops and perception especially if at State College… forget the “ it was a fluke win” whine. We can do both contrary to what some may think.

Probability wise, it has to be more likely that we beat PSU and go 6-6 or better than that we beat PSU and go 5-7 or worse. Significantly so.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

We need to win this VTech game for many reasons. I know the wheels fell off in 2021 so everyone forgets what it was like going into the Big House undefeated and even in defeat walking away from that game with respectability. Sure - we ended up losing Sutton in that game. Lost another major OL piece the next game in a pounding vs OSU. We lost AC too and just could never recover from that point because we had no depth. But for the first month of that season, we came across as a respectable program.

We need to be in that spot again. Even if we don’t end up having as good a showing this time in Michigan we need to deliver the BIG a match up between undefeated teams and at least make it a game. Do that and the following week is an easy win vs Wagner and we make it to October fielding a respectable team as we did back in 2021. That’s step 1. This time we have more depth, so maybe just maybe we can find 2-3 more wins the rest of the way. It’s a successful season then no matter who we beat.

We need to do this more than we need say to pull a stunning upset while nursing a 4-6 record (say we beat Wagner and Indiana). You understand what a fleeting moment it would be then right? We beat PSU to get to 5-6. Then we come home to lose to Maryland the following week to miss a bowl. The only way for us to win PSU and then also win Maryland to end on a high note would be to go into the PSU game at 3-7 which means we only win Wagner before that. No thanks.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Finishing 8-4 and going to a bowl... I'll take the bowl!

Going to a bowl at 6-6. No big deal.

Beating Penn State would be so much more gratifying!

 

[yesrutgers01]

Finishing 8-4 and going to a bowl... I'll take the bowl!

Going to a bowl at 6-6. No big deal.

Beating Penn State would be so much more gratifying!

When was the last time we were 6-6 and went to a bowl? Perspective, my man lol

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Finishing 8-4 and going to a bowl... I'll take the bowl!

Going to a bowl at 6-6. No big deal.

Beating Penn State would be so much more gratifying!

It’s not about the bowl. It’s about losing an additional game that would have otherwise been a win earlier in the season as a trade off for getting that one good win. All other outcomes equal, I’d much rather beat Indiana and Virginia Tech but lose to PSU than absorb both those bad losses but beat PSU. 2-1 is always better than 1-2 in my book.0

 

[yesrutgers01]

It’s not about the bowl. It’s about losing an additional game that would have otherwise been a win earlier in the season as a trade off for getting that one good win. All other outcomes equal, I’d much rather beat Indiana and Virginia Tech but lose to PSU than absorb both those bad losses but beat PSU. 2-1 is always better than 1-2 in my book.0

And i isn't like we are trading 2 wins against teams like Wagner and UConn, these 2 wins we are talking about to get to 6 would be against P5 teams.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

And i isn't like we are trading 2 wins against teams like Wagner and UConn, these 2 wins we are talking about to get to 6 would be against P5 teams.

A win against VTech is worth multiple weeks of optimistic outlook and hope for the season. Yes, even if we struggle against the number 2 team in the country on the road next week. Winning this one is a very big deal for us.

To say one win over PSU is worth more than this win PLUS an extra win over another BIG team just doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[REDRICH65]

Pundits will say we won bc State Penn played poorly. They get blame; we don’t get credit

 

[robcac26]

Winning a bowl game, eh. Yes it's nice to have, but it usually doesn't move the barometer all that much. BUT, the extra weeks of practice leading up to a bowl game are very nice to have to do developmental work with those players who didn't see game action this season.

Yep that's kind of my point, which was a bit off topic from the OP--making a bowl game is an achievement, winning one not so much since which bowl you make is a better barometer of success than just "won a bowl game." I'm sure we'd all rather see Rutgers lose in a New Year's Bowl than win some bottom tier bowl.

 

[mikebal9]

Yea, I'm not a boomer. Nice try though.

 

[mikebal9]

Well let’s be real here. Any program/ institution that knowingly gave a child rapist access to their program (which access he used as the bait to attract children to rape them in Pedd Sate showers) is going to attract some strong feelings

I can personally tell you that my “hatred” towards SHU, Cuse and Boston college have faded nearly completely away to nothing. I really don’t pay them any mind and haven’t for years. I mean boeheim is a whiney douche but he retired? Right? Honestly don’t know that’s how little I pay attention to them lol

And while I don’t love certain Big10 programs (mostly due to douche coaches (Iowa BB, Michigan FB), I really don’t actively root against those schools (particularly when playing OCC).

But PSU is in a category all to itself for the atrocities that they allowed to happen there. There’s no statute of limitations on hating those who aided a child rapist.

So yeah, the hatred for PSU is real, WELL deserved and will never go away.

I really don't hold anything against kids who weren't born when it happened.

 

[WhiteBus]

I can't see us not going to a bowl if we beat PSU. Where are the 7 losses coming from if Rutgers is that good?

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

It allowed me to vote for both so I did.

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

I can't see us not going to a bowl if we beat PSU. We're are the 7 losses coming from if Rutgers is that good?

Agree that this seems like a highly unlikely scenario. We're already at 2 and Wagner is a layup. In this scenario, PSU is #4. How are we good enough to win at Happy Valley but unable to win two more against the rest of our remaining schedule?

I voted for the bowl game. Get that streak OVER, get more practice time for the younger players, and a reward for seniors like Langan who have laid it all on the line for years now. The Gator appearance was a nice surprise but it was a gifted bowl appearance. Plus, Schiano's always done a good job of preparing for bowls. I think we'd have a great shot at another W.

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

I really don't hold anything against kids who weren't born when it happened.

I don’t care about the players.

I root against the institution that allowed it to happen and don’t want any joy for the fans that obviously care FAR more about wins than kids

 

[yessir321]

Under this scenario Penn State would be easily a top 4 program in the country and to beat them in State college would do so much more for us from a recruiting/national perception standpoint than being simply a 6 win bowl team. 8 win team would be a different answer.

Forget the specific Rutgers/Penn state aspect for a minute, if a 4 win team goes in and knocks off a top 5 program that’s going to harpoon us in the national spotlight and certainly improve recruiting.

As for bowls there’s what? 40 bowl games at this point? Not saying it shouldn’t be the goal for us this year to make one but when given the scenario of beating psu and having that memory/spotlight compared to an invite to the Quick Lane Bowl or the Guarenteed Rate Bowl it’s an absolute no brainer.

 

[SirPerceval]

You wouldn’t be able to find one coach or player on the team who would choose to beat PSU over going to a bowl.

Maybe not but this poll was for fans - A win over PSU on the road when they are undefeated with national chamopionship hopes would be talked about on this board for 4 decades. The Pinstripe bowl against Duke would be forgotten by January 15th, 2024

 

[yesrutgers01]

Under this scenario Penn State would be easily a top 4 program in the country and to beat them in State college would do so much more for us from a recruiting/national perception standpoint than being simply a 6 win bowl team. 8 win team would be a different answer.

Forget the specific Rutgers/Penn state aspect for a minute, if a 4 win team goes in and knocks off a top 5 program that’s going to harpoon us in the national spotlight and certainly improve recruiting.

As for bowls there’s what? 40 bowl games at this point? Not saying it shouldn’t be the goal for us this year to make one but when given the scenario of beating psu and having that memory/spotlight compared to an invite to the Quick Lane Bowl or the Guarenteed Rate Bowl it’s an absolute no brainer.

100% disagree- a kid is committing based on what is going to happen during his 4-5 years. If we beat PSU but still couldn't make a bowl- it would not show the anything. Making a bowl which would show that the organization is going the right directions- talks much more about what will happen during their time not what happened before they got here.

 

[RUTGERS95]

So- let's say we won that L'Ville game in 06 but crapped the bed most the rest of the year and never made a bowl that season...Do you think the needle would have moved much?

Again- the big wins are nice but does NOTHING for the program on their own. I'm Coach Schiano and visiting a player and his family- what is more likely to attract a kid. "We finally beat PSU and ruined their season. Hopefully we can improve enough so that wins like that are not complete flukes" OR "We went to a bowl last year and have showed steady improvement since I have gotten here. I fully expect us to continue to grow and reach bowls games every year you are playing for us"

reading is fundamental

 

[RUShea]

Hmm. The Fuddruckers Bacon Burger Bowl in Amarillo against Texas State or upsetting a blue blood who's owned us forever and ruining their season?
How's this even a question?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Hmm. The Fuddruckers Bacon Burger Bowl in Amarillo against Texas State or upsetting a blue blood who's owned us forever and ruining their season?
How's this even a question?

That’s not the comparison. Stop thinking of it that way. The bowl game is just an added perk.

The question is really - would it be worth losing an extra game to get that signature win in place of two wins over different BIG teams or one BIG team and VTech. In my view the answer is no. I’d rather any combination of 2-1 over 1-2.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Hmm. The Fuddruckers Bacon Burger Bowl in Amarillo against Texas State or upsetting a blue blood who's owned us forever and ruining their season?
How's this even a question?

Because the next players in don’t give a **** anymore. They want to know what will happen when they are here.
You are thinking as a fan and not a program.

 

[yessir321]

100% disagree- a kid is committing based on what is going to happen during his 4-5 years. If we beat PSU but still couldn't make a bowl- it would not show the anything. Making a bowl which would show that the organization is going the right directions- talks much more about what will happen during their time not what happened before they got here.

And you don’t think beating psu would do more for that kid in terms of confidence in the direction of the program?

Here’s the thing, under both scenarios greg walks into a recruits living room this spring, a recruit isn’t going to say ‘saw you in the pinstripe bowl coach!’ Meanwhile if we beat psu, we become the darlings of CFB for a week at least and the entire country will be talking about it

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

And you don’t think beating psu would do more for that kid in terms of confidence in the direction of the program?

Here’s the thing, under both scenarios greg walks into a recruits living room this spring, a recruit isn’t going to say ‘saw you in the pinstripe bowl coach!’ Meanwhile if we beat psu, we become the darlings of CFB for a week at least and the entire country will be talking about it

There’s no story line if the other wins turn out to be a 2-10 NW team, a 3-9 Temple team, Wagner, and (hypothetical worst case scenerio) a Michigan State team that loses all its best players to the portal and loses out. In that case it’s just a fluke meaningless win occurring in a season already gone lost.

I’m not saying that will be the outcome for any of these teams (other than Wagner). That’s all TBD. But there’s no great recruiting narrative in that and it’s not a direct comparison of one PSU win vs. simply a bowl win over a 6-6 Syracuse team or something.

The narrative is that the program is improving. In that example, replace PSU with 2 other decent but not elite teams Also win that bowl game. 3 wins against middle of the road peers plus taking care of business across the board against terrible teams. That’s marked program improvement from a messaging perspective.